Amberwolf's Cloudwalker Cargo Bike


Staff member
Aug 17, 2009
Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion
This thread will be for the re-evolution of what used to be CrazyBike2:
which looked approximately like this (but all red) last time it was working:

and now looks like this:

Since the stuff I'll need to begin building the new version of the SB Cruiser trike appears to have very little chance of becoming available anytime soon (probably because of the freeze disaster in the central USA some weeks back), and I have a week and a half off coming up at the end of April, intended to be used to make that new trike so I will have backup transportation and/or new primary transportation, I'm instead going to go ahead and rebuild CB2 to make it functional again as a backup bike, partly so I can use it while rebuilding SB Cruiser to do the things I would've liked to build a new trike for instead.

SInce the under-seat cargo box has been very useful on SBC, I'll probably be doing something like this:

to the CB2 frame, making that big box under the seat like SBC has for cargo, battery, etc. I have pulled the frame out of the storage area to look at it, take pics, and work out what exactly I'll need to change to do this, to see if it's practical for it's structure. It's not very aerodynamic...but I need practicality for cargo much more than aero, as I don't need to go fast (20MPH or less) and usually not more than a few miles at a time. One thing the pic doesnt' show is the probably-necessary bevelling of the bottom outer edges of the whole cargo system (rear boxes and under-seat box), to allow leaning in turns).

Since all electrical stuff (motor and lights) was stripped off for other things a while ago, it'll need a new motor/controller system, as well as new lighting, etc. It doesn't have any wheels or front fork either.

For a motor, TorgueRPM is parting out an E-Grom, so once we work out cost and shipping on some parts from that, I'll be using it's rear 2kw QSMotor wheel, which uses a rim bolted to the motor itself, and a fairly wide MC tire, which may also require modification of the frame the rear cargo boxes are bolted to (so the bike may get a few inches wider than it is now by the time I'm done, and I may have to bevel the outer bottom edge of each cargo pod to ensure clearance during leaning in turns). If it's possible, I'll also add suspension to the rear end since the shock will also come with this, but I don't know if I can fit that in between the cargo pods without making it too wide.

One issue to be dealt with is that the MC motor wheel doesn't have any way to connect a pedal drivetrain to it. So I'll need to add a mount for at least a single-speed freewheel to it. While it's unlikely I myself could actually pedal it without power (I can barely pedal a regular bike anymore and stay balanced), I still want this to be a bicycle in concept, and it will still be limited to 20MPH like the SB Cruiser trike, etc.

I just need higher power than a typical ebike to get moving quickly when heavily loaded with cargo or pulling a trailer that's loaded up (like with one or more of the dogs). It took about 4kw to do this with the previous version of CB2; it'll probably take about the same here, though it's only needed for a few seconds under most conditions, since almost everywhere I ride around here is pretty flat. Pulling a trailer loaded with a few hundred pounds of stuff (dog, dog food, groceries, or whatever) will need that kind of power for longer, and still higher power than typical for the rest of the time.

(I actually wanted to go with a middrive for this, but the one I'd planned on using was one being sold in the used section here, and the seller stopped responding last year, though their ad is still up; I might eventually be able to make one myself but for reliability and simplicity, I'm going to stick with the hubmotor concept for now).

As I don't have a usable fork, I'll probably be using the whole headtube and fork from the E-Grom, modifying the axle mount on it's dropouts to hold a bicycle wheel axle, and making an adapter from a bicycle 6-bolt ISO disc brake hub to the MC rotor that goes with the hydraulic MC brakes the fork has. (the rear wheel will also have the MC brakes, so the frame has to be modified to bolt those to it).

For lighting, the fork comes with the E-grom front plastics/lights/etc, so I'll start with that and see what has to be changed, if anything, for headlight. Then I'll put these:
on the fork legs for front side-markers and turn signals and DRLs. These:
will be the main taillights and turn signals and brake lights, installed on the upper back of the cargo boxes. If it turns out there is not enough surface area I'll get another pair and mount them side-by-side. This might be another tail/brake light at the back of the seat along the crossbar:
and it also has lights to shine down into the cargo pod area and behind the bike when I'm stopped and loading/unloading cargo, etc. These strips:
may go along the crossbar itself, as upper turn signals. The white part of the lights will remain unused for now. If I can find a way to cover the white LEDs with red transparencies without interfering with the amber turn signal LEDs, I'll do that. If they wont' fit on the crossbar, I'll use them along the rear and outer edges of the cargo box lids.

I also still have a bunch of 12V LED strips like are used all over SB Cruiser, so those will also be used on various tubes and frame parts of the Cloudwalker Cargo Bike (CCB) for marker lights and downlighting, to make it "bigger" visibility-wise; this strategy has worked well over the years for helping other traffic on the road see me and go around me rather than thru me. ;)

I'll use the same metal ATV thumb throttle that runs a cable-operated throttle body as I do on SB Cruiser, and if I can make it work on the bars I'll also use the brake lever on that throttle unit to run another cable-operated throttle that will control variable regen braking.

I don't know which controller I will use yet. I have the questionable-functionality Kelly KLS7250D from Mistercrash that I need to test (and possibly repair if it is broken *and* repairable) that would run the motor ok. I also have the unfinished Lebowski-Honda-IMA controllers that would definitely do it. :) Most likely one of the Lebowskis will have to be used, and if I ever get back to the SB Cruiser being powered by them have to get the stuff to make a third one. I dont' have anything else (working) that will give me 4kw from a single motor even for a few seconds. (maybe half that, mostly a quarter that).

For redundancy I would prefer to use 2WD, motor on each end, but there are several complications to doing that for the front if using the E-Grom fork, and also the single big motor in the back ought to be able to reliably handle everything as long as the controller doesn't fail. (I will probably end up keeping a small 2kw-capable generic controller mounted and ready to connect the battery and motor and controls to "just in case".) I've thought about using one of the little Bafang SWX02 ex-Jumpbike motors I got last year as the front wheel, as a "just in case" motor since it freewheels; it would never be used unless there were problems with the rear. It couldn't handle more than basic operation of the bike, and would probably need my help getting it started up to prevent overheating it pretty quickly in stop-and-go traffic.

More later, dozed off a dozen times writing this already. :/
Noting down specs and links for various things for later reference.

AFAICT, this is the QSmotors manufacturer page for the QS260 motor version used on that Egrom:
and pics of the bare motor/rim from that page:
Specs from that page below, with important stuff to my build bolded/highlighted. I don't know which winding it has, but it is probably the fastest, since the bike it comes from is spec'd at about 40mph at 72v. I'll probably only be using it with a 52v pack (14s EIG NMC), and my max limited speed is 20mph, so it will easily do that. It should also have good enough acceleration if I can get sufficient power from whatever controller I use. (which will be the Kelly KLS7250D from Mistercrash if it works, or one of the Lebowski-IMA units if it doesn't, or a generic 15FET "40A" controller if I can't get anything else going (until it can be replaced with something big enough to do what it needs to).

Motor Type: BLDC Hub Motor with Permanent Manget
Motor design: Double axle out with 10inch rim
Rim size:3.5×12
Matached Tire: 120/70-12
Magnet Height: 35MM
of Pole Pairs: 23 paris
Rated Power: 2000W
Max Power: 2500W
Rated Voltage: 48V( 60V/72V Can be optional)
Speed: 45km/h (30-60km/h can be customized)
Max No-load RPM: 650RPM
Max Torque: 110N.M
Max Efficiency: 86%
Continious current:48A
Max current:60A
Brake type: Disc brake
Rear Fock width for installation: 200mm
Winding Core material: Iron
Cross Section of Phase wire: 6 mm2
Hall sensor phasing angle: 120 degree
Temperature Sensor: Optional
Working Temperature: 70 degree, Peak 120 degree
Waterproof Grade: IP54
Color: Black
W./ G..W. : 15kgs / 16kgs
Package Size: 44*43*34CM
Some of the lighting arrived today--two of the "amber sequential turn signal plus white DRL" types (each with separate positive supply wires, and a common ground). After I get pics of my own, I'll add those in here. For now it's pics from the sale pages of each item. The prices on everything have gone up several dollars since I ordered them, but they're inexpensive enough for most people (I'm really only getting all this stuff because of the "stimulus" stuff this year).

One type is a somewhat flexible but "solid" bar around a foot long, with a lot of closely-spaced little LEDs in it (more "solid" looking lighting than when there are only a few more distantly spaced larger LEDs). These will probably go on the fork legs. According to the box markings there is also a red&amber version, but I havent' found a seller for them yet. If I do, I'd like to put a pair of them on the back of the bike. The white part activates at poweron with a sequence and then a fade-in, then stays solid. It's quite attention-grabbing. The amber part just sequentially increases the amount of strip lit up starting at one end, repeatedly, when powered on. It also turns off the white part while the amber part is sequencing, which makes the turn signal more visible. The white part does not have to be powered to use the amber. I'll have a video linked at some point.

The other type is basically made like the strip that I have on the downtube of SB Cruiser for white downlighting, but the lights inside are smaller and closer together, and perhaps brighter, as well as being both the white DRL and the sequential amber instead of just white. The white part is just solid on when powered up. The amber part sequentially increases the amount of strip lit up starting at one end, repeatedly, when powered on. It also turns off the white part while the amber part is sequencing, which makes the turn signal more visible. The white part does not have to be powered to use the amber. I'll get a video of these, too. These strips are a lot longer than the other (they come in shorter versions, but I wanted longest I could get, 60cm, as I am not certain how long I need them to be (until the handlebars/etc are finished along with whatever "dashboard" I end up with, I won't know for sure). They can be cut between each three-LED section, then silicone used to seal the end, to retain waterproofing, if I have to, but I'll leave all the lights I can just for more lit surface area. They also make a red/amber version I'll use on the rear, but I haven't bought those yet, as I wanted to see what these looked like first.

These will likely go from the center of the handlebars out across the backs and ends (where the reflective strip is now) of some brush guards I'll put on the handlebars (like I have on SB Cruiser) to keep sun/hot air off my hands in the summer, and rain/cold air off my hands in winter.
amazon brushcguards.jpgamazon brushcguards2.jpg

The main tail/brake/turn lights will be these, which have independent amber turn signals, tail/brake (brake brightens tail), and white reverse (which I will probably insert a red plex piece into to turn into more tail or brake lighting surface area as I don't need a reverse light), and a "metal cage" to theoretically minimize damage to the plastic lenses. I don't expect much from that part, but it was included, so.... They should be enough surface area as is, but if not I will get another pair and mount them paralleled on each side. Have to wait and see when they get here.

There's a "third brake light plus truckbed area lights" unit I also got that hasnt' arrived yet. This will go on the crossbar behind the seat, above the cargo pods.
I'm going to use the same kind of cheap battery disconnect I have used for years on SB Cruiser, as it's never given me an issue.

I've been looking at various "marine" / "rv" switch/fuse panels to control various things on the bike, mostly the lighting, but haven't decided on any of them yet. Some of the different kinds I've run across, no particular order. I like big toggle switches, but the rockers with internal lights are interesting (I'd use red lights though; less distracting to me, since I havent found any with amber lights that I'd really prefer):
One amazon seller has lots, but expensive
some random stuff on ebay

I'll be using a Cycle Analyst v3 from Dogdipstick as the primary "display" and power monitoring, as well as PAS interpreter and throttle control/limiter/etc. Most likely I'll be using a TDCM BB that came with that CA for the PAS, if I can get the torque-only-startup stuff in this thread going:
Shunt will probably be a standard CA 1milliohm shunt, but I have a higher current shunt from Mistercrash, or the one that's on the Kelly itself (is external to the controller, making it easy to access).

The battery will be a 14s EIG NMC, probalby just 1p for space reasons, just like it was before. I'm unlikely to need the range a 2p would give, especially since this bike ought to be less power hungry than the trike is, if it is about like it used to be in it's last incarnation, which got between 22 and 30wh/mile (about half the trike's usage).

Probably use the same kind of circuit breaker and fuse setup I have on the trike, which is the same I used to use on the old CB2 bike. I don't recall the details ATM but when I dig out the spare breakers I'll post those here.

Wiring for main power will be the 8 or 10g stuff saved from the powerchairs, like before, Anderson SB50 connectors.

WIring for controls will probably be old computer shielded data cables to send as many things in one cable as I can. I'll use automotive relays like I did on SB Cruiser to actually switch the lights and stuff from the handlebar controls. Don't have a link ATM but I bought a set of them with sockets and fuses from Amazon for SBC back when I did that wiring, and I think i still haave a few left, so won't likely need to buy more.

The turn signals may be a bit finicky to wire up, because the sequential ones don't need a flasher (may actually be problematic if I use one) but the tail/brake/turn/reverse units will need one. So I'll probably use the same Novita EP35 I've been using on SBC and formerly used on CB2 for years, liek this
for the stuff that doesn't have it's own flasher. If I have issues running the sequential stuff on the flasher, I could wire the turn signal switch on the handlebars to send power to both the flasher and the non-flashed signals at the same time, and the flashing power to just those that dont'have their own internal blinkers/etc. But since that should just be the two rear ones, I could isntead just put a flasher on each one individually, and greatly simplify the wiring). Would probably cost about the same either way, but I'd go for simpler wiring even if it cost more. Even if I end up with more lights (side markers, etc) that I decide to also flash with the signals, I can just use the same flasher to run each whole side of the bike, and still do it this way.

I have a pair of handlebar controls for signals, headlight, accessories, etc., that will work; the bodies are actually metal (die cast, but better than plastic in the Arizona sun), and appear to have actual switches inside instead of the typical crappy stuff that's in most of the plastic ebike versions.

The throttle will be an ATV throttle like this, which is MUCH better than the plastic crap for ebikes. Been using one for most of a year now on SB Cruiser:

that operates a cableoperated throttle unit COT like this

The same kind of COT can be used for proportional regen braking controlled via the brake lever on that ATV throttle, via the Cycle Analyst, with Grin controllers, or directly to a Kelly or other controller that has a separate analog brake input.
Nope. :) Most likely I'll only get the very basics done, and hope to have something that can be test-ridden around the block at least.

I'm doing some of the stuff now as I have time, prewiring, setting up stuff on the handlebars, working out the backend changes to fit the 200mm wide shoulders of the axle (previously was 135mm, IIRC) and the much wider tire, which basically requires cutting off almost the entire old chain/seat stays section. I'll tack weld the new dropouts into the cargopod frame that's already there, but won't fully weld them until the wheel arrives so I can be sure they are correctly spaced and lined up for it.

The front end stuff has to wait until I have the fork and headtube in hand, as I have to cut off my existing headtube to weld the new one in place at the correct angle, etc. I also need that fork and the axle for it to build a new hub for the 26" bicycle front wheel that will accept that as a thru-axle.

The lighting wiring and mounting is easy enough, but some of it I can't fully wire and tie down until the front and rear ends are rebuilt, or else I'll have to redo it if I have to cut into or weld on those areas. But I can premake the basic harness and leave it long enough to go whereever it needs to end up, and then just connect it all afterward. Creating the fuseblock/relay wiring is the hardest part, and is the longest as well, as it is fairly complex. It's pretty likely that this stuff will not really get done until that week or afterward.

Most anything that is going to take significant time "all at once", or that needs a lot of concentration / energy on my part has to wait until I'm off work, since I use myself up at work each day, and it typically takes me at least a day to recover on my "weekends". Sometimes I have more capability than that, but not usually, these days.

When I don't have to work for long enough, like these week-and-a-half time-offs, then I can fall back to my more natural pattern of working on things until i can't, then rest, then work more, then rest, and so on, which if it's not physically strenuous like my dayjob is, I may be able to do more than half a day at a time of work on a project, then a little rest and then go back. So sometimes I can get more than two weeks work out of the week and a half of time...I just can't do that kind of thing while also working at my dayjob. So I might get a lot more done than I think I will...if I'm lucky.

But once this bike *is* functional and essentially complete (if not fully detailed / painted etc), then I can use it for commuting/etc while I upgrade the SB Cruiser, which will be nearly as major a set of changes as this bike will have (or even more extreme, if I can do the pedicab parts and drivetrain stuff). But at the least I will at least have backup transport.
Over here
I installed one of the pairs of flexible DRL/turn signal strips in the same way I intend to install them on this bike. Note that the handlebars are the same on both CCB and SBC, so they should look the same on both. Pics and vid in daylight:

First pic is of front view with no lights at all, then with just the DRLs, then with the turn signal on (this seems to have captured the blank between signals :( ), then a video of the signal in operation. Not shown is that when the turn signal is started, the white DRL automatically turns off to make the signal more clearly visible, and the DRL turns back on when the signal stops. Afternoon sun is directly shining on the front of the trike and the lights from directly behind me as i took the pics and vid.



Nightime vids and pics are over here:

Separately, the main large tail/brake/turn/reverse modules arrived, and they are about the size I expected. (sometimes measurements by sellers are...inaccurate. ;) In this case, they're correct). They are about as bright as I had expected, so I should only need the one set of them, as each one basically covers half of the back of the cargo pod it will be on.

They are made of stamped sheet metal, rather than plastic, so they're a bit heavier but much more durable, which since they're on the backs of the pods, which sometimes get banged into things (trees, etc) in the yard if I am backing it up either by hand or by riding it, is good, and the metal cage is relatively sturdy, so that will help too.

The covers all are screwed on with gaskets, so I can remove the clear reverse one and insert a red plexiglass filter inside it to make a bigger taillight or more likely a completley separate brake light. The difference in brightness between tail and brake on the main red unit is pretty good, but in daylight, especially, having a separate set of lights that only come on during braking is helpful.


  • 20210401_193345.jpg
    46.9 KB · Views: 2,286
  • 20210401_193421.jpg
    54.9 KB · Views: 2,286
  • 20210401_193432.jpg
    16.6 KB · Views: 2,286
  • 20210401_193506.jpg
    33.9 KB · Views: 2,286
  • 20210401_193540.jpg
    41.5 KB · Views: 2,286
  • 20210401_193557.jpg
    40.9 KB · Views: 2,286
  • 20210401_193803.jpg
    49.9 KB · Views: 2,286
This is what I have to work with on the back end frame:

There is about 230mm between the cargo pods, and about 190mm between the rails. So to get the 200mm needed for the axle shoulders on the QSmotor, I'll have to put the dropouts just outboard of the inbaord wall of the rails. TO make the axle nut hardware accessible for a socket wrench, I'd have to make some relatively large holes in the inboard wall of the cargo pods; what I will probably do instead is to make clamping vertical dropouts that don't use any axle nuts to simplify installation and removal, with the clamping bolt accessible from the rear. I dont' expect to have to take it out for tire or wheel problems for quite a long time with a motorcycle tire on there, as the moped tires used on SB Cruiser haven't had many problems, so the thicker tougher MC tire will likely have even less.

The rim and tire are much wider than the stuff I've used on CB2 before, at 120/70-12 tire, that's almost 5" at it's widest, so it isn't going to fit in the seatstay/chainstay area (though it does fit within the cargopod frame), so I will have to remove the stays and the old dropouts. I'll probably need to retriangulate the rear end with rods in tension from the rear corners of the cargo pod rail frame.

The tires should be almost 19" in diameter, so not quite as large as the 20" bicycle tires or 16" moped tires I've used before, so I can move the dropouts down to keep the rear end height and geometry the same.

Circumference should be: inches (mm) 58.48 (1485.35) for reference if I use a speedo on this wheel, from a google page on these sizes of tire.

Supervisors got bored while I was taking pics of lights and stuff:
Been a while Amber since I have posted but I still cruise the forum time to time. Hope you are well.

Been out in Denver the last few years living 5 minutes from work so my biking has turned into exercise only and my knee's strengthened enough it's no longer an issue. I have all my old ebike stuff in Ohio and thinking I will dissemble the builds and see if anyone is interested as I need to clean out the garage.

Reading this post I was curious if there's anything specific you need for this build. I have many spare parts some that have never been used. Only thing i don't have are any geared motors that still work. Let me know and ill send you some pics. Would be a donation just like you do with your time for this board.
Thanks--I don't really know exactly what I'll need yet. Part of it depends on how the stuff from the Egrom works out, once it gets shipped here and I can work on it, see what fits, what requires rebuild, etc.

I suppose if you have anything with "wide" 26" rims (40mm+?), the rim itself would be useful for building the custom front wheel for this (I'll have to build the hub itself from scratch, to mate the bicycle rim to the Egrom fork). (actually I am not certain a 26" wheel will fit in the fork without stanchion extensions at the "dropouts" but we'll see)

Whenever you have pics of stuff, you could PM me and I could look thru them to see if anything looks like it would work on here. I'm better at that than I am at listing what I need...cuz I don't usually build things the "normal" way, but rather I look at a pile of stuff and see what I can make out of it or misuse it for. :lol: :oops:

BTW, the BionX rim / rear Amped rotor from you, using a 9C front stator/axle and covers from Kingfish, IIRC, was the front wheel of CrazyBike2 (the bike Cloudwalker is being built from) for a long time. Might be able to still use it if I fab up torque plates to bolt to the Egrom fork, but I think just the one motor in the rear ought to be enough, as long as it's reliable (and it's controller, etc). So the present plan is a custom "regular" bicycle wheel in front.
That's cool to hear about the amped motor. Was what got me into ebikes especially when I over volted that sucker.

Ok sounds good. I about have the garage cleaned up so Ill lay stuff out and get some pics and PM em to you once I break down some more things.
My yuba build has a 5404 I believe, higher end cell man controlle. I have the mount kit minus the geared motors I smoked for the urbancommuter mid drive kit he sold. I do have a small DD motor I thought I may try to replace it with but never tried it. NuVinci hub bike kit still boxed that never made it out but sounded like a good idea at the time. grin front DD motor never used, used 3525 with holes that worked well last time I used it.

But yea need to get pics. That's the next step.
ohzee said:
My yuba build has a 5404 I believe, higher end cell man controlle. I have the mount kit minus the geared motors I smoked for the urbancommuter mid drive kit he sold.

I do have a small DD motor I thought I may try to replace it with but never tried it. NuVinci hub bike kit still boxed that never made it out but sounded like a good idea at the time. grin front DD motor never used, used 3525 with holes that worked well last time I used it.
If that UC mount is even just similar to what's shown here:
then I could definitely use that; I tried to buy the ones in that thread but the guy stopped responding shortly after telling me he was going to box them up and determine shipping cost. He's logged in since then, and even read one of my PMs, but that's it. Guess he didn't really want to sell them.

I was going to buy them to use the drives on a new rear end for SB Cruiser, or a new version of the trike from scratch, to drive the wheels with hubmotors but not in the wheel, so I could use larger wheels for better ride quality while still keeping the same "motor to ground gearing" (or even lower for better torque, since I don't need the top speed the stuff I have can give, but I do need startup torque).

Even one of them would still save me a lot of work bolting up a hubmotor to a frame to do that sort of thing, perhaps thru a peerless type differential to run both rear wheels off one motor, possibly thru a NuVinci hub for variable gearing (and/or an NV for the pedal gearing, which goes to the front wheel instead).

My worst problem getting anything done is time/energy: I hardly ever have both at the same time, when I'm not already doing other stuff that's critical (repairs, dogs, housework, dayjob, etc). So I have so many ideas to try out.... :(
Attaching a pic of the mid drive mount. I think there is a chain tension-er and should be some kind of plate for the bottom to mount it.
I have everything just need to locate but won't be to hard. Also going to attach a pic of the largest rim I have. I know you said front
so doubt you want a 3525 there but if you could reuse the rim & moped tire and re-spoke it just let me know.

Understand not having time because of life getting in the way. Also that heat you have out there would kill me and it looks like
it's getting even warmer now a days. Found some grin stuff. The potted red rear flasher. The nice front bright multi voltage led they used to sell (not sure if they do anymore) and a couple cycle analysts.

Ok gonna post some pics and then get ready for some late night maintenance for work.


ohzee said:
Attaching a pic of the mid drive mount. I think there is a chain tension-er and should be some kind of plate for the bottom to mount it. I have everything just need to locate but won't be to hard.
Yeah, that looks like the style I would want to use. I don't know what all the pieces look like, but that kind of mount would make it much easier to setup the drive chain(s) from the motor to the wheel(s), and mount the motor on the trike ("halfway" inside the cargo box under the seat, most likely; sticking down out the bottom of the box enough to let the chainline to the diff / etc be as straight and easy to access as possible, while still giving as much ground clearance as possible). If there's enough space in the mount, I have a QSmotor QS205-50H that needs a new axle that would work in there; I'd probably drill and tap the ends of the "dropouts" of the mount for clamping the axle. That motor should be able to power the trike by itself without overheating.

I could actually use the drive on this Cloudwalker bike, with the new hubmotor, instead of using the motor in the wheel...then build a regular rear bicycle wheel...but I think I'd like to do it on the trike instead. (after Cloudwalker is fully up and running and reliably tested, which is likely to take a while).

Also going to attach a pic of the largest rim I have. I know you said front so doubt you want a 3525 there but if you could reuse the rim & moped tire and re-spoke it just let me know.
I don't think I would want the 3525 motor (I see you appear to have the same screw-falling-out problem I did with my 3548's sidecovers, which I think is caused by cover out-of-roundness and/or an axle problem), but I could use the spokes/rim and maybe the tire. If I'm reading the tire right it's a 2.75" x 19"? So it's outer diameter is about the same ish as a 26" bicycle wheel/tire? I'm not sure the knobby would be best for street riding, but I suspect if I had the need I could cut down the knobs and still use the tire without the vibration/etc knobbys usually give. If it came to doing that, it'd be easier just to get a street tire if it was that big a problem. Probably a Shinko; the SR712 would fit, as does this and I'm sure there's others if I had to.

Heck I think the tire that's on there already looks like I could ride it even if it had no air in it!

The rear motor I'm buying from TorgueRPM has a built-on 3" wide 12"rim, for a 120/70-12 tire (which will be on it). If I had room back there without preventing use of the tops of the cargo boxes as a "rack", I'd use a larger diameter wheel back there...but I have found the need for that space trumps the need for the larger wheel.

Also that heat you have out there would kill me and it looks like it's getting even warmer now a days.
There are numerous days (more every year) that I wonder if it is going to kill *me* :lol: especially in the barely-air-conditioned warehouse area I do most of my work in at my dayjob. Last year (or the one before?) I had to put one of my old window A/C units in the shed I use most often for working on stuff, just so I could keep working out there when it's hot. It doesn't work very well but it is way better than nothing, or just a box fan on high, since I can't use a misting system inside the shed. (tried one outside it, but the misting caps very quickly failed, then the hoses, etc).

The dogs are already staying inside most of the time, and it's not even 100F highs out there yet, and the nights can still get down to the low 70s or even mid 60s....

Found some grin stuff. The potted red rear flasher. The nice front bright multi voltage led they used to sell (not sure if they do anymore) and a couple cycle analysts.
I have a "regular" pedal bike that I keep intending to finish fixing up for emergency usage (probably with an old Kepler friction drive); if I ever get around to that the lights might be useful...but I bet someone else on here could use them sooner than I will, and I would probably use much larger surface area and brighter lighting even on that bike (like the stuff I am using on Cloudwalker, shown earlier in this thread). CA's are always useful; I keep dreaming about putting wattmeters on "everything", but I don't want to monopolize the stuff you have--I am sure someone here that cant' afford a new one needs one. :)
Yea that moped rim is very close to a 26. If you can use it i'll get it to you along with the mid drive mount.
I'm out in Denver but will be back next weekend so I can start going through all my stuff again. Some things id
not want to deal with trying to sell but you may find them useful and if not maybe trade/barter/pass on yourself.

I have 2 full builds that worked fine last time I used them and one I never finished so I have a lot of stuff sitting around gathering dust.

Yuba Mundo with 5404, 24 fet controller. Figure i'll dissemble that and sell the bike as a bike.
Phasor forest green, QS 205, MaxE controller. May see if anyone wants it built. Just don't wanna ship anything that big.
Qulbix Raptor 140, MaxE, QS 205. This I started but never mounted any of the electronics so it's never been used.

Ill just PM you if I come across anything else I think you can use so i'm not cluttering your thread. Ill feel better knowing someone
will have a chance to use something I'm not.
Thanks--I'll wait for your PM(s) for the rest of the parts discussion. :)

Shipping cost me more than the parts, I think, (still cheaper than buying the stuff new, by far) but today I finally got the remnants of TorgueRPM's E-grom:

-- QSmotor rear wheel with rim/tire, including torque arms / nuts/ etc
-- fork and axle/etc (didnt' need the front wheel itself) and he even cut off the headtube (and part of the toptube with gusseting/buttressing/etc) so I don't have to deal with making the fork fit the stuff on my frame--I can just weld the headtube onto the frame.
-- headlight including mounting bracket and plastics and the little "acorn" turn signals
-- brake rotors, calipers, hoses, and levers/reservoirs, and the mounting brackets for the rear one (the front bracket is part of the fork)
-- original rear shock and another that has an adjustable reservoir
-- I dozed off and forgot the rest. :( I'll put it in here when I remember. :oops:

The last few days I spent a bit of time between household stuff and working on a new bit of music and lots of doggie time, and cut out the bicycle dropouts and seat/chain stays, leaving only the square tubing cargorail framing from just in front of the seat to the back end of the bike, greatly increasing the usable space inside the frame. It will require some triangulation, probably using thin rod in tension from corner to corner along the sides, to re-stiffen the frame to the previous capability.

Then i cut the seat itself off, so I can move it forward a couple of inches or less, and do the other frame work necessary that the seat is in the way of. I am probably going to just reuse the seat as-is, though originally I considered using another Stadium Chair like I have on the SB Cruiser trike, only with a higher back built onto it. I might still do that later, but for now, we'll stick with the seat I know works on this bike. The reason for moving it forward is that I had put it too far back originally, but never fixed it because I couldn't really pedal the bike anyway, so not being able to exert any force on the pedals at full leg extension didn't matter. Since it is fairly likely this will end up a single-motor bike, I will need a way to pedal it effectively at least for very short distances. (I'll probably add outrigger wheels I can lower on the cargo pods to essentially make it kind of a trike for these instances, and also to use as "kickstands" for loading cargo while keeping the pods level. )

So since I had the frame down to where I could test fit things, I did some of that, and it looks like I was about right for how the rear wheel will have to mount. The axle shoulders are just about right at the outer edges of the cargo pod rails, so the axles *are* going to intrude into the pods, requiring removal of the pods to take the wheel off or "slotting" the inboard wall of the pods to allow pulling the wheel out from underneath to work on it. The two ways of not doing these are to move the pods outward about a couple of inches on each side (not really desirable), or removing the axle ends and just using enough of them to fit into clamping dropouts. Or instead of the clamping dropouts, use the torque arms that came with the motor to bolt to the inboard side of the dropouts, above the slot for the axle, via tapping threads into a hole I would drill above the slots when I make the dropout plates. Then the axles would be trimmed to just exactly enough length to fit between the pods (which bolt to the outboard faces of the frame rails).

It's not very likely that I will have to do much work on the wheel very often, which is the whole reason for buying and using it, so I am not that worried about having to disassemble stuff to get to the wheel to take it off, if it simplifies the whole project. (meaning, just bore axle-nut-sized holes in the inboard pod sides, so I can install the wheel first, then just put the pods on afterward--this would take a few minutes of work, instead of extra hours or more).

One of the hardest things I'l lhave to do is remove the wire-side cover so I can bolt a freewheel mount to that cover to be able to have a pedal chain. I tried to do this today, but cannot get my 3jaw puller's tips under the cover because of the spacing between the built-on rim (welded to the outside of the rotor) and the cover lip. I'll have to modify the puller to be able to do this.

I also ahve to run the motor reversed from the way it was used on the Egrom, because it has the disc brake on what would be the bicycle drive-side, and unless I just skip using the rotor at all, and make a bolt-on freewheel adapter that takes it's place, I have to flip the motor over to have access to something that will let the chainline go past the tire/rim without rubbing, etc. (the brake side of the motor is recessed a ways "beneath" the rim edge, where the wire side sticks out a bit at the cover/axle bearing area, just enough to let me do this trick to add a pedal chainline. )

I tried out the Kelly controller from mistercrash, which he suspected was failed, and he appears to be right. I can talk to it from the setup program, and change settings, read data, etc., and it does detect and read the motor halls, etc., but it won't properly run the "angle idenfication" routine. I first tried it weeks ago on a little 9C motor, with all the power settings in the kelly minimized so as not to melt or break the motor, and it still nearly melted the motor--may have damaged it, I haven't opened it to check yet--the phase wires where they come out the axle were very hot, enough to begin melting the cable sheath, etc.

Hoping that the problem was just the little motor being too little to deal with this controller, I tried it out on this QSmotor, but with the same results (except no melting because I monitored temperature with my hand on the phase wires during the test, so I could stop it immediately). Within seconds the phase wires were too hot to hold anymore, and just like before, the motor just made horrible loud noises (clicks, bangs, etc, and never spun, just wiggled a bit sometimes, so I turned off the brain-power (keyswitch) to the kelly, and disconnected them. Then powered it back on, and then used the setup program to turn off the angle-identify procedure. I started to try manually finding the phase/hall combo, but Kirin needed my attention, and then Jelly and Yogi joined in, so I haven't got back to that today.

I know I am forgetting stuff, but I keep dozing off so I'll post this and then stick the pics in in a little while, and anything else I remember.
Photodump post:


  • 20210407_151516.jpg
    44.2 KB · Views: 1,771
  • 20210423_113557.jpg
    82.6 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210423_113607.jpg
    72.6 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210423_161539.jpg
    81.8 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210423_161601.jpg
    98.2 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210423_161613.jpg
    66.5 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_123554.jpg
    35.4 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_123542.jpg
    57.4 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_123155.jpg
    43.2 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_114138.jpg
    22.1 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210423_161723.jpg
    78.1 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210423_161716.jpg
    86.6 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_132604.jpg
    78.8 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_132542.jpg
    72.9 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_132423.jpg
    81.6 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_132418.jpg
    79.6 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_132736.jpg
    82.6 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_133032.jpg
    75.6 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_133736.jpg
    80.8 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_133750.jpg
    68.2 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_140314.jpg
    77.7 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_140245.jpg
    75.7 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_133813.jpg
    63.3 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_133808.jpg
    65.7 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_133755.jpg
    60.8 KB · Views: 1,770
  • 20210426_140444.jpg
    70.6 KB · Views: 1,771
  • 20210426_140558.jpg
    73.7 KB · Views: 1,771
I didn't get any further on this (and probably wont' for a while) because right after the above, Kirin suddenly got sick (or rather, got sicker, enough to make it obvious, but apparently has been for a while now and we just though it was's actually a heart condition called DCM. :( ). More info here:

I'll still be coming up with details of what i will do with the CCB when get to work on it again, but am unlikely to get any actual work done on it until I can work out a routine with Kirin for potty breaks, naps, moving around, etc., like I did with Tiny years back. No idea how long that will take, as Kirin might actually be more stubborn than Tiny about being helped :roll: and her problems are different (and more immediately life-threatening, especially when she is under any stress).
very shortly after the above, kirin died suddenly and my world ended, and then in late june yogi died too, and my world ended a second time, and then my work put me on unpaid medical leave because i was nonfunctional and completely exhausted from being unable to sleep. took me months to get back to being able to sleep somewhat like normal some of the time, and at least a little the rest of the time. nowadays i am a little better than that but still not normal by any means, and am still under counseling for ptsd and depression and whatnot, and still unpaid and unemployed and running out of savings.

the city ordered a cleanup for various reasons and i had to throw away most of my project stuff, but i think i saved the cloudwalker stuff, at least enough to build it, if i ever become able to work on it again. so for now this project is on hold.
Things are a bit better now; I'm back at work, at least. I'm exhausted most of the time, but now that it is beginning to warm up enough to work on things, but not super hot out there, I am going to start working on this again, to make my backup transportation so I can then do all the improvements to the SB Cruiser trike I want to do but can't without something else to ride while I do them. :)