zukster
1 kW
nogas4me said:
Why don't you just use your main power source?
INFINEON CONTROLLERS FOR DUMMIES
- Thread starter Knuckles
- Start date
Why don't you just use your main power source?
zukster said:
I have a keyswitch and would like for the controller to only come on with the keyswitch. The problem is the keyswitch is hook to a dc converter that can only handle 60v. So I have the keyswtich tapped off only 5 batteries instead of all 6 sla batteries . I wired the small red wire to the switch but the controller didn't come on. I now have a small toggele on the red wire coming from the main power, but if you flip the switch anyone can run the hub motor.
So I wanted to know how many volts do you need to turn this controller on using the little red wire? maybe you have to have the same 72v as the main power but if that is the case why have the little red wire at all.
zukster
1 kW
The way I understand it, that little wire will just not draw much from the batteries. Just
what the circuit needs to turn on the main power. As to what voltage it can take, I guess that depends
on the controller. I have a 15a Infineon from keywin that he setup to run from 36v-60v. And
the little wire switch I put in works fine at 40v or 60v. It probably matches what the controller
can accept. What range does your controller accept for voltage?
I did see someone else asking this somewhere and I think it was Knuckles that said you could
run it off another power source if you really wanted to, but why bother... If you search a bit you'll
prob find this. Maybe one of the Infineon threads.
what the circuit needs to turn on the main power. As to what voltage it can take, I guess that depends
on the controller. I have a 15a Infineon from keywin that he setup to run from 36v-60v. And
the little wire switch I put in works fine at 40v or 60v. It probably matches what the controller
can accept. What range does your controller accept for voltage?
I did see someone else asking this somewhere and I think it was Knuckles that said you could
run it off another power source if you really wanted to, but why bother... If you search a bit you'll
prob find this. Maybe one of the Infineon threads.
I tried putting about 65volts off my 5 batteries to it and it didn't work. It does turn on now with the main power of all 6 sla batteries which is over 75 volts. My controller is setup to accept 62-84v so I would think it should have come on. I did read somewhere that the controller circuits need 12v over the LVC so if that is accurate it would need about 74v to turn on. But I am not sure I read that thread correctly.
zukster
1 kW
I'm just re-reading your info. Why is your keyswitch hooked up to a 60v dc converter? Can't
you just get one that is mechanical
on:close the circuit
off
pen the circuit.
The switch its self only has to be rated for a couple of amps I think. It also serves to more gently turn
on the battery voltage to the controller from the batteries.
There was some info on this circuit here too
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9407
you just get one that is mechanical
on:close the circuit
off
pen the circuit.The switch its self only has to be rated for a couple of amps I think. It also serves to more gently turn
on the battery voltage to the controller from the batteries.
There was some info on this circuit here too
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9407
zukster said:I'm just re-reading your info. Why is your keyswitch hooked up to a 60v dc converter? Can't
you just get one that is mechanical
on:close the circuit
off
The switch its self only has to be rated for a couple of amps I think. It also serves to more gently turn
on the battery voltage to the controller from the batteries.
There was some info on this circuit here too
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9407
My key switch has a 60v tap from batteries on one side of the switch and a dc converter on the other. The converter is for my 12v lights, turn signals and brake lights. This controller is wired into an extreme xb-600 scooter. The dc converter can't handle anymore than 60v in with 12v out. The controller is getting all 6 sla batteries 72v wired constant. I want to hook the small red wire into the keyswitch so when the key comes on so does the controller, but I guess 60v isnt enough to turn the controller on. So my original question was how many volts have to be on the small red wire to turn the controller on?
The simple answer is more volts than the low voltage cutoff is set to. For a 72V controller this likely to be around 63 volts.
You will need to adjust the regulator circuit in your controller for the lower voltage and also change the LVC. It would be easier to build a new DC converter to handle the 72V, easy and inexpensive to do and it also avoids unbalancing your batteries by using the 60 volt tap off.
You will need to adjust the regulator circuit in your controller for the lower voltage and also change the LVC. It would be easier to build a new DC converter to handle the 72V, easy and inexpensive to do and it also avoids unbalancing your batteries by using the 60 volt tap off.
dnmun
1 PW
you really seem to not understand how the little red wire is there to carry the current to the voltage regulator which then delivers the 12V to the controller circuitry.
knuckles talks extensively about how to adjust the input power resistors to get the right size to use to protect the voltage regulator from voltages that are too high for it to handle.
you should go read all that so you can understand what is going on inside.
i think if you get to that level, then you will be able to see how to use the 12V output from your DCDC converter to drive the 12V rail inside and then you can figure out some way to manage the LVC signal from the R12 resistor bridge to the signal pin on the 846.
if you are using a lifepo4 pack with a BMS, there is no need for you to have controller level LVC if your controller current will be coming off the DC converter.
in that case you could build a resistor bridge from your 5V rail to drive the LVC signal pin on the 846 which would keep it turned on all the time, even though you would have removed all the high voltage that usually drives it through R12.
also you would remove the 12V LM317T regulator, and just use your 12V DC right to the caps on the 12V rail. should work ok.
or you can leave the LM317T in place since there will be nothing on it's high side.
knuckles talks extensively about how to adjust the input power resistors to get the right size to use to protect the voltage regulator from voltages that are too high for it to handle.
you should go read all that so you can understand what is going on inside.
i think if you get to that level, then you will be able to see how to use the 12V output from your DCDC converter to drive the 12V rail inside and then you can figure out some way to manage the LVC signal from the R12 resistor bridge to the signal pin on the 846.
if you are using a lifepo4 pack with a BMS, there is no need for you to have controller level LVC if your controller current will be coming off the DC converter.
in that case you could build a resistor bridge from your 5V rail to drive the LVC signal pin on the 846 which would keep it turned on all the time, even though you would have removed all the high voltage that usually drives it through R12.
also you would remove the 12V LM317T regulator, and just use your 12V DC right to the caps on the 12V rail. should work ok.
or you can leave the LM317T in place since there will be nothing on it's high side.
Make yourself a new DC converter from a laptop or LCD TV power supply. No components needed, you just need to solder a few wires. You can then run everything at full battery voltage.
My homemade DC converter is good up to a couple of hundred volts and can supply 10 amps. Here's a picture of it.
Is that the same connector as on your converter?
My homemade DC converter is good up to a couple of hundred volts and can supply 10 amps. Here's a picture of it.
Is that the same connector as on your converter?
dnmun said:
Let me see if I follow you. You are saying I would have to rewire the controller inside to except 12v directly from my dc converter to turn the controller on. By doing this I would no longer need the voltage regualtor that is used to take high voltage and reduce it to 12v for circuits inside the controller. You are also saying that I am missing the point on the little red wire as a turn on for the controller. If my memory serves me it needs 65ma to turn on. So am I not getting the proper amount of current on the little red wire? I have connected 65v to it and the controller still doesn't turn on. It does work now with a connection to a toggle switch that is also connected to the batteries providing 72v. If I want to make this easier. Wouldn't It just make sense to use a 12v relay connected to the dc converter and transfer 72v from the batteries to this little red wire just like I am doing with the toggle switch. That seems to be a easier solution.
zukster
1 kW
Has anyone figured out a way to read the parameters programmed into an Infineon?
I has a USB to TTL cable
Keywin 36v/350w Infineon
Keywin 48v/600w Infineon
and I want to do some testing. It would be nice to have a reference point before re-flashing.
I particular, one is acting a bit funny and I would like to verify its parameters. For the big one,
I want to limit the current being drawn from the controller and set to the motor.
FEI (For Everyone's Information ), I just opened up the cable and its the
ArkMicro ARK3116 Chipset USB-to-UART Controller. I guess we'll see if this one works.
Got it for 5 bucks from Craigslist.
I has a USB to TTL cable
Keywin 36v/350w Infineon
Keywin 48v/600w Infineon
and I want to do some testing. It would be nice to have a reference point before re-flashing.
I particular, one is acting a bit funny and I would like to verify its parameters. For the big one,
I want to limit the current being drawn from the controller and set to the motor.
FEI (For Everyone's Information
), I just opened up the cable and its theArkMicro ARK3116 Chipset USB-to-UART Controller. I guess we'll see if this one works.
Got it for 5 bucks from Craigslist.
mwkeefer
1 MW
36v / 350w would be 350 / 36 or 9.72 A Rated Current
48v / 450w would be 450 / 48 or 9.37 A Rated Current
My guess is this controller would be limited at 15A - what FETs and how many are there, also what is the name/version on the PCB (ie: EB206, EB809) from the factory for RatedCurrent.
Phase Current should begin at 2x the Rated Current so 30A for this one.
Speed is always 100% default (okay 99.9%) for speed %2 and best I can determine the Speed limit pre programmed (the jumper wire) is set for 50%. This last value depends on config and intended power.
The rest will be identical to the sample config file for your particular board type... now we just need the type (6 FET, 9 FET, EB206, EB209, EB809-XC, etc) and I (or anyone else here) can point out the right software and sample file.
Ive bundled the installer software for both versions of Parameter Designer into a single windows setup available here:
http://www.e-bikemike.com/dl/ParameterDesignerSetup-ALL.zip
Hope this helps,
Mike
48v / 450w would be 450 / 48 or 9.37 A Rated Current
My guess is this controller would be limited at 15A - what FETs and how many are there, also what is the name/version on the PCB (ie: EB206, EB809) from the factory for RatedCurrent.
Phase Current should begin at 2x the Rated Current so 30A for this one.
Speed is always 100% default (okay 99.9%) for speed %2 and best I can determine the Speed limit pre programmed (the jumper wire) is set for 50%. This last value depends on config and intended power.
The rest will be identical to the sample config file for your particular board type... now we just need the type (6 FET, 9 FET, EB206, EB209, EB809-XC, etc) and I (or anyone else here) can point out the right software and sample file.
Ive bundled the installer software for both versions of Parameter Designer into a single windows setup available here:
http://www.e-bikemike.com/dl/ParameterDesignerSetup-ALL.zip
Hope this helps,
Mike
zukster
1 kW
Hey Mike, you answered my main question on the Regen thread so I'm just going to post that here too:
I've asked Keywin for the original flash parameters. It would be nice to be able to read them
from the unit. I think someone previously posted on a kind of Serial Port snooper that ran in some
kind of promiscuous mode (geek speak). I thought maybe philf may have looked into that a bit.
I read somewhere else here that there was someone on a French forum that was suggesting you
could query it like a modem. I'll dig up that post when do the flash.
Thanks for the software bundle. I'll try it tomorrow.
I don't know how those numbers are determined, but yeah, the crunching does not follow Ohm's law.
Keywin sells these right on ebay:
Small one that says 36v/350w/25a:
http://cgi.ebay.com/36V-350W-brushl...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45ef85dfa8
Medium one that says 48v/600w/30a:
http://cgi.ebay.com/48V-600W-brushl...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45ee67f612
The numbers don't make sense,
Unless for the first one (for example) is supposed to be phase current. Then 25a / 2.5 = 10a, where Keywin
maybe used 2.5 for the phase current multiplier for the flash, so rated is 10a and phase is 25a.
The 48v is a EB812XC-A-8 20090106 with chip XC846. Keywin setup both to use any voltage.
Small: 30-60v
Medium: 30-65v
Not sure how though.
mwkeefer said:
I've asked Keywin for the original flash parameters. It would be nice to be able to read them
from the unit. I think someone previously posted on a kind of Serial Port snooper that ran in some
kind of promiscuous mode (geek speak). I thought maybe philf may have looked into that a bit.
I read somewhere else here that there was someone on a French forum that was suggesting you
could query it like a modem. I'll dig up that post when do the flash.
Thanks for the software bundle. I'll try it tomorrow.
I don't know how those numbers are determined, but yeah, the crunching does not follow Ohm's law.
Keywin sells these right on ebay:
Small one that says 36v/350w/25a:
http://cgi.ebay.com/36V-350W-brushl...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45ef85dfa8
Medium one that says 48v/600w/30a:
http://cgi.ebay.com/48V-600W-brushl...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45ee67f612
The numbers don't make sense,
Unless for the first one (for example) is supposed to be phase current. Then 25a / 2.5 = 10a, where Keywin
maybe used 2.5 for the phase current multiplier for the flash, so rated is 10a and phase is 25a.
The 48v is a EB812XC-A-8 20090106 with chip XC846. Keywin setup both to use any voltage.
Small: 30-60v
Medium: 30-65v
Not sure how though.
zukster
1 kW
Takemehome said:
Has anyone heard of anyone making a controller with the Arduino?
http://www.arduino.cc/
I don't know what Justin at ebikes.ca
used for his cross Canada ride, but he has not been continuing development of his controller, partly due
to the low cost and availability of the Infineons.
Now the Arduino would be the way to go. There could be several versions and programs designed
where people could improve how it is applied to various ebike configurations. Rather than
try to figure out the Infineon algorithms. And all open source to encourage development.
mwkeefer
1 MW
zukster,
Many of us are familiar with Arduino development platform and there are plenty of BLDC (take your pick, sensored or sensorless) appnotes using Atmega MCU for BLDC control. These may be easily ported to Arduino.
Personally I do most of my MCU based prototyping using Arduino Mega 1280 and then downgrade onto atmega 328,168 or 48 depending on final requirements.
-Mike
Many of us are familiar with Arduino development platform and there are plenty of BLDC (take your pick, sensored or sensorless) appnotes using Atmega MCU for BLDC control. These may be easily ported to Arduino.
Personally I do most of my MCU based prototyping using Arduino Mega 1280 and then downgrade onto atmega 328,168 or 48 depending on final requirements.
-Mike
zukster
1 kW
Cool. I took a quick look on the forum but no luck. Can you point me to any info
on programming these with respect to ebike applications? My programming knowledge
ended with C. I'm now a sysadm. What do you use for you stuff?
edit: okay I came across some info now:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12557&start=0
on programming these with respect to ebike applications? My programming knowledge
ended with C. I'm now a sysadm. What do you use for you stuff?
edit: okay I came across some info now:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12557&start=0
mwkeefer
1 MW
Yea... search for arduino, atmega and such, you will find more than our work = )_
-Mike
-Mike
SilverSurfer
100 W
I just had to tag this thread to make it easier to get to! Thanks, and sorry for the bump.... But I need ALL this stuff! 
flexy
100 W
Hi I am a new dummy here and I am trying to upgrade an electric scooter from 48V to 72V, I bought a new 18fet controller from Keywin ( e-crazyman).
The board is labelled EB218-AS-1
Ihave bought this USB -TTL adapter
Which must connect to this part of the board
Could anyone one tell me which pin goes to which hole on the board so that I can make a lead ,
Thanks, flexy
The board is labelled EB218-AS-1
Ihave bought this USB -TTL adapter
Which must connect to this part of the board
Could anyone one tell me which pin goes to which hole on the board so that I can make a lead ,
Thanks, flexy
Kingfish
100 MW
Go check out this thread on modifying the 18-FET:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10312&start=315
by methods » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:46 pm
The 3rd picture in his post has a profile of the connector from the top-side of the pcb.
From the detail we can infer the following:
-> Left-toRight, it's N/A, +5V, GND, Rx, Tx, N/C.
A picture in a later post suggests the same:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10312&start=345
>> by geoff57 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:41 am
Caveat:
Though remote, it is possible that Rx and Tx are reversed. This was the case on one of my boards.
Also, with regards to your USB adapter...
...double-check the voltage on your pinouts: My silkscreen was backwards, but I caught it before plugging in.
Best of luck
~KF
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10312&start=315
by methods » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:46 pm
The 3rd picture in his post has a profile of the connector from the top-side of the pcb.
From the detail we can infer the following:
-> Left-toRight, it's N/A, +5V, GND, Rx, Tx, N/C.
A picture in a later post suggests the same:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10312&start=345
>> by geoff57 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:41 am
Caveat:
Though remote, it is possible that Rx and Tx are reversed. This was the case on one of my boards.
Also, with regards to your USB adapter...
...double-check the voltage on your pinouts: My silkscreen was backwards, but I caught it before plugging in.
Best of luck
~KF
Hello!
Recently, I had an unpleasant encounter with the police, and now I have to modyfy my eBike into a pedelec.
I already figured out how to make a pedelec sensor. This sensor will operate a reed relais and will close it for several seconds each time it gets an impulse from the bottom bracket.
But now I am trying to figure out how to connect it to the infineon controller.
What I plan, is a 3-speed setup:
Low speed: This mode will be always on, also without pedelec sensor, to allow legal 6km/h.
Medium speed: This mode will be activated when the pedelec sensor kicks in, and allows legal 20km/h. Will overide "low speed mode".
Max speed: This mode will be activated by a hidden jumper, and by the pedelec sensor, and will override all other modes.
Getting to these 3 modes alone would not be a problem. The problem is how to make them override each other.
The manual says this:
So, I could theoretically assign the "low speed mode" to the "Speed 2%" setting. So the bike will drive slow always. Then I could make the pedelec-sensor-driven reed relais connect "SL" to ground, thus allowing "Limit Speed%" to be activated. To this, my "medium speed" setting will be assigned.
Now, the big question is, how will I activate my "max speed" setting? When I assign this to “Speed 1%†and connect “X1†to ground as well, which setting will dominate? SL or X1?
Cheers,
Julez
Recently, I had an unpleasant encounter with the police, and now I have to modyfy my eBike into a pedelec.
I already figured out how to make a pedelec sensor. This sensor will operate a reed relais and will close it for several seconds each time it gets an impulse from the bottom bracket.
But now I am trying to figure out how to connect it to the infineon controller.
What I plan, is a 3-speed setup:
Low speed: This mode will be always on, also without pedelec sensor, to allow legal 6km/h.
Medium speed: This mode will be activated when the pedelec sensor kicks in, and allows legal 20km/h. Will overide "low speed mode".
Max speed: This mode will be activated by a hidden jumper, and by the pedelec sensor, and will override all other modes.
Getting to these 3 modes alone would not be a problem. The problem is how to make them override each other.
The manual says this:
So, I could theoretically assign the "low speed mode" to the "Speed 2%" setting. So the bike will drive slow always. Then I could make the pedelec-sensor-driven reed relais connect "SL" to ground, thus allowing "Limit Speed%" to be activated. To this, my "medium speed" setting will be assigned.
Now, the big question is, how will I activate my "max speed" setting? When I assign this to “Speed 1%†and connect “X1†to ground as well, which setting will dominate? SL or X1?
Cheers,
Julez
Takemehome
1 kW
Julez said:
A SPST switch ( on ground wire ) for pedelec or not.
A SPDT switch wired with pedelec relay for medium or max. ( hidden )
*edit: problem solved controller is runnig great again
First sorry for my spell, English is not my first language.
I have a Lyen contoller 18fet Infineon. The controller is damaged. My fault.
Now I have received a new controller PCB and switch all the components that are not damaged.
I have one problem the new PCB is a little different . This PCB have a coil the old one have big resistors and a voltage regulator. There are 3 components I don’t know the value. Can somebody tell me which value they are.
I need te now:
C003, CDG1 and R115.
*edit I find out the resistor R115 = 200 Ohm for 32-72V or 250 Ohm for 72 - 84V
*edit I find a pickture that shows CDG1 = 470uF
*edit C003 is 470uF (Thanks Edward Lyen)
The nr from the old PCB is EB218-A-4 The new PCB EB218-AS-1
Picture say more:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JK4Nd8vltKCe2qknO3ZoTdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
First sorry for my spell, English is not my first language.
I have a Lyen contoller 18fet Infineon. The controller is damaged. My fault.
Now I have received a new controller PCB and switch all the components that are not damaged.
I have one problem the new PCB is a little different . This PCB have a coil the old one have big resistors and a voltage regulator. There are 3 components I don’t know the value. Can somebody tell me which value they are.
I need te now:
C003, CDG1 and R115.
*edit I find out the resistor R115 = 200 Ohm for 32-72V or 250 Ohm for 72 - 84V
*edit I find a pickture that shows CDG1 = 470uF
*edit C003 is 470uF (Thanks Edward Lyen)
The nr from the old PCB is EB218-A-4 The new PCB EB218-AS-1
Picture say more:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JK4Nd8vltKCe2qknO3ZoTdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
Erikjan said:
hi
not sure of the component values but the coil is the sign that you have a controller that has come to be called two things depending on who you talk to, many call it a high voltage controller but a better discription would be wide voltage window, the resistor type of controller has a voltage window of about 44V not up to 44V but the lowest and highest voltages that can be used safely must not be more than 44V apart, the wide window can handle from 36V to 100V with no problems, it might go down lower but I have not personaly tested that. remember if using highervoltages you have to fool the controller into thinking the voltage is lower to allow regen to work above 75V regen is disabled by the controller.
Geoff
