INFINEON CONTROLLERS FOR DUMMIES

[docnjoj]

Hey Knuckles! Where do I get 30 volts from. I have a 12 volt power supply and a bunch of Nimh and nicads but only lifepo and SLA 36 volt chargers? My Astro Nicad charger died! otherwise I could charge up 22 Nicads and get 30 volts, but I can't do it with the chargers I have.
otherDoc

 

[dnmun]

BlueRedBrown is 620 ohms, and that is the reistor that spans the voltage regulator. the other grey looking one above is the one knuckles observed is toasted. it drops the input voltage from the Vcc down to the voltage your regulator can handle.

if your Vcc drops to 30V you need to use something like a 200-300 ohm resistor so the voltage drop from Vcc to the regulator input doesn't cause the voltage on the regulator input to drop below 14V or so. knuckles covered this in one of his threads.

you should be able to put a voltmeter on it and measure the resistance, just make sure there is no voltage on it when you use the ohmeter scale. but it does look cooked.

to get the 30V, you can use a combination of power supply and nicad cells or whatever to get you to the 30V input. but evaluate the input power resistor first because if it is 600R then dropping to 30V could damage the controller.

does your fat pack have a BMS built into it? that may be where you select the LVC setpoint.

 

[docnjoj]

Thanks dnmun! The new Fatpacks seem to have a Voltage regulator on their board, since the tools don't seem to have one. It is a 3rd socket on the battery. If I run a wire to each of the 4 fatpacks to that middle lug and hook it to the orange wire of the controller, good things may happen at about 30 volts. Or not. Nobody seems to have tried it as most folks strip the cases and just use the cells. Those wires would technically be in //, cause the series voltage might do really bad stuff to the BMS I want to try to get the controller to cut off first before I experiment with the Fatpacks. I'm still not sure about the resistor swap since Knuckles did list using Ro1A and Ro1B as 100 ohm each for a 30 volt cut off. He says the R6 resistor is 660 ohms like U stated, in the tech section, so I guess I would remove that. I will test it soon today, but the controller works fine on 48 volts, so i figure it is OK. More soon and thanks again for the clear help! We non-electronics types really appreciate those type of explanations!
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Okey dokey! The resistor with the colored lines reads 305 and the other 315 on my 400 ohm scale. If they are in series then that would be pretty close to the 620 or so that is supposed to be there, but not 660. Any help is still most appreciated. Could I just adjust the variable resistor down to 200 ohms and call it good enuff?
otherDoc

 

[dnmun]

ok, i'll start with the neumonic, bad boys ravish our young girls but violet gives willingly.

there is a racially insensitive one i grew up using.

black brown red orange yellow green blue violet grey white

BBROYGBVGW = 0123456789

black =0, brown=1, red=2. 0range=3, yellow=4, green=5, blue=6, violet=7, grey=8, white=9

the first 2 numbers give you the first 2 digits of the resistor value and the 3rd band is the power of 10 multiplied times the first 2. make sense?

so BlueRedBrown=621 or 62x10^1=620, OrangeBlackBrown=30x10^1=300R or 300 ohm.

that's all it is.

the 620R resistor is not part of the input power resistor. it helps the voltage regulator drop the voltage to the 12V rail by diverting some current through the resistor instead of the voltage regulator.

does the gray one have anything printed on it? that is the input power resistor, there should be more than one to absorb the heat of the power dissipated. you could replace it with 220 ohm 2W resistor and likely be safe at 30V. assuming 65mA as the controller current, then the 220R resistor has .065x220=14.3V drop so the regulator will see 15.6V, at 300R that is only 10.5V which will still run, but not very much voltage for the circuits that need 12V out of the regulator, which would only be about 10V then. but if the controller current is only about 55mA then that is more like 30V-(.055x300)=13.5V input to the regulator which is ok. just barely ok.

that's all there is to electronics. it really is pretty easy to read them once you start practicing.

these are 10% resistors.

 

[docnjoj]

Yeah, dnmun, is easy for you! I think I get it. Replace the ugly one without the colored lines with a 220 ohm 2W resistor! Do I then adjust the variable blue one at all? Luckily I can solder pretty well! Thanks again for putting up with my need to have everything spelled out, dnmun! I started out in Mechanical/Aero engineering until my so called guidence counselor said I wouldn't need as much math in Medical stuff. He was probably right!
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

OK you experts! Here's your chance to laugh at a non-expert!
I calculated the // resistance of the ugly but still working power resistor (measured with a pretty good VOM at 316R). I went to my loco Radioshack and got a 1K ohm 1W (the best they could do) and calculated using R1*R2/R1+R2 the value at 229R. Pretty close to 220. From dnman's calculations I figure about 15+- volts through the Vcc which seems high enuf not to destroy the fets. I also remeasured the blue variable resistor at 1488 (this time with my eyes open) and turned it down to 1200, about the same value as R12 that it replaced. Also using V^2/R for power calculations i get 0.2W through the little resistor which seems OK.
Now the big question. Will I blow the controller???????? I do need a backup one but didn't plan to get it this week!
Thanks in advance and please LOL if you choose. I don't embarrass easily. I also gave Knuckles a PM but I believe he is away for the weekend. All this just to run tool batteries!
Thanks again for putting up with my attempt a electronics.
otherDoc

 

[dnmun]

you can't measure the resistance while it is in the circuit. the color code will tell you the value.

those resistors are not in parallel, they are on separate circuits. don't power it up until you can get this straightened out or it can damage it.

is this the old shenzen type of controller or an infineon?

does the grey one have a value printed on it?

 

[docnjoj]

Gulp! I had no idea that you can't measure resistance while it is attached to the board! Thanks dnmun! I will hold off on everything until I order the proper resistors. I guess I will try Knuckles method of using a 30 volt source (run down Fatpack?) maybe. Thanks again!
otherDoc
edit: I would have soldered the 1KR to the legs of the ugly one, not across the 2 resistors, but since I now have no idea of the value of the power resistor (can't read it even with a powerful magnifier) I will just order the right parts.

 

[docnjoj]

I knew electronics houses had minimum orders but 3(220R 2W) of 'em is gunna cost $10 plus $5 shipping! How do you experts buy parts? By the hundreds I would guess? Oh well, it is cheeper than a new controller.
otherDoc

 

[dnmun]

i have some 300R and maybe still have a 200R i can mail you.

the grey resistor is the input power resistor and you can measure it by unsoldering one end and then put your ohmmeter across the legs.

the value should be printed on it since it looks like a wire wound resistor, not a metal film resistor like the 620R one.

knuckles idea is the way to go, but if you drop the voltage and you have a high value for the input resistor then the voltage regulator may not be able to keep a high enuff voltage on the FET drivers to prevent them from behaving badly.

you will need to change the input power resistor anyway, so unsoldering one end is no problem.

 

[docnjoj]

Cool, dnmun! I never would have thought of just doing 1 end. I will try tonite after we ride, cause i know not to use the Fatpacks till I change the resistor. It would probably not run more than 100 yards if that with a 40 volt cut-off and 40.7 volts in the batteries. Back to the "ton of Ping" for this week! Luckily it is a great battery, but just too big!
otherDoc

 

[dnmun]

i thought there was no such thing as 'too big' for a battery. especially on a trike.

before you desolder the input resistor, connect the controller to the power source and measure the voltage drop across the resistor. accurately.

then after you measure the resistor value, you will know what the idle current for the controller is and that will help select the new power resistor.

ohm's law. I=V/R

 

[docnjoj]

I did a bit of reading and found a post (Ithink by John in CR) regarding the Fatpack cut-off. I does have LVC but it seems to be down around 24 volts. That seems way too low for long life! 2.4 volts per cell set seems "death spiral" time to me. I'll fix the Infineon, thank you!
ootherDoc

 

[dnmun]

2.4V is ok for a lifepo4 cell as the cutoff. the concern is that the controller would not work properly and could be damaged if you allowed the voltage to drop that low (24V). that's the trick with selecting the proper input power resistor.

 

[docnjoj]

There is "too big" when it has to hang off the side. On my old trike there was enuf room in front of my leg to just clear my pedal stroke and the battery was more centered. I have designed a fairly classy mount to use up to 6 fatpacks right under the seats of the new trike and evenly balanced. The new one is rather narrow track, which I like, but it doesnt like 25 lbs offcenter towards the rear. I refuse to mount it on a rear rack as it raises the C/G too much and gets "tippy". I don't like riding on 2 wheels to recover! and only do it when I have to! It is a cute "show-off trick on a trike, though, unless you go a bit too far over
otherDoc
edit: The Tricruiser track was 36" and the Steintrike 28"! Quite a difference.

 

[docnjoj]

OK Final dummy report for dnmun! V=17.7 volts across power resistor and measured resistance is 325 ohms. Therefore Amps are .0545 This should be 22.8 volts using your formula at 40 volts LVC. I need .055*220 and will get 17.9 volts out for Vcc form the new resistor. So a 220 will certainly work good. A 200R will give 19 volts, also good I guess. I dont know the voltage limit on that chip. But 220 or 200R looks good to me to keep the Fets running. Yes? I checked the resistor under very good magnification and no numbers on it.
otherDoc

 

[dnmun]

330 makes sense. if your 10 pack gets to 37V, then .055x330R=18.2V drop to 14.8V input to the regulator. so its already pretty low. if you get to 24V then the regulator only will see about 24-(330x.065)=5.85V. that's too low.

you wanna get an extra 7 volts outa the 65mA active current to get the regulator back over 12.8V so 7/.065=108R so can use 220R for the input resistor. redredbrown. (330-108)=222R

at 37V then you have 37-(220x.055)= 25V input to the regulator.

i can mail you two 300R and you can put them in parallel, which is 150 ohm. so at idle, 37-(150x.055)= 28.8V, at 24V and active 24-(.065x150)= 14.25 input to the regulator, perfect.

or you can add something similar in parallel with that 330R wire wound.

wasn't that easy?

thanks knuckles, and richard too for what little i understand about it.

 

[docnjoj]

Thank you dnmun. I can send money by Paypal! I should sent at least $15 to cover costs as that is what the electronics houses want.
otherDoc

 

[Knuckles]

R you guys in LOVE?

ps ... I thought the "Bones" Star Trek was funny ... no comment at all

Doc ... R U happy yet?

 

[dnmun]

it's all your fault.

what would you have used? a single 180R 2W? i figured with the 2 300R in parallel it was .634W so he coulda used 180R 1W, or even 4-620R 1/4W in parallel. but these were all i have.

 

[docnjoj]

Uh oh! A battle of the Titans! Thank you both for your help. I think I won't fry the controller now!
otherDoc

 

[Fredo]

Hey,

I am looking for the reference and where I could buy the connectors for my 48V Infineon controller. I have already replaced the phase and battery ones by Anderson connectors but I would like to keep the one for the throttle and Hall sensors.

Thanks
Fredo

 

[Arlo1]

subscribed

 

[nogas4me]

How many volts are needed on the small red wire to turn the 72v 45 amp controller on ?
Thanks