Issues with an ebay kit please help

[MR30]

Hi I have been lurking this site for about a month, decided to buy this kit
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291119531800?var=590270751128&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 from eBay seller xcceries and have had nothing but problems. Do you guys think the motor is blown ? Is this something I can fix myself or will I have to send it back. Seller hasn't been very helpful so far and return shipping will be a hassle and will cost an arm and a leg. Here's a copy and paste of my conversation with the seller.

Ebay would not let me attach pictures so I had to link them. I have disassembled the kit because I use the bike. As you can see my battery is charged to 38.6 V, the throttle led shows it as fully charged but nothing happens when I hit turn the throttle. I have double and triple checked all the connections several times and am 100% sure it is installed correctly.

This is what I am seeing on the throttle. It has 3 harnesses.1st harness has 3 wires, red, green and blue on the throttle side and red, white and black on the controller side. I don’t see any power when it is off and I see 4.39 V on the red wire when it is on. I see 0.80 V on the green=> white wire when the throttle is not turned and up to 3.62 V when it is twisted all the way. 2nd harness has 2 wires, brown and yellow and I don’t see any power when it is turned off and around 38V when it is turned on. 3rd harness also has 2 wires, also green and brown and I don’t see any power when it is turned off and around 36-37V when it is turned on. There are 3 thick (12 or 14 awg) single wires going from the controller to the motor. These wires are green, yellow and blue. I don’t see any power when the unit is off on these wires and I see 9.7 V on the green and yellow wires when I twist the throttle to all the way. I think the blue wire is a ground.

There is a 5 wire connector going from the controller to the motor. I think this is the hal sensor connectors. I see 4.2 V on the red wire and 4.9V on the green wire when I connect my multimeter all the other wires are off. Based on what I have done so far I am pretty sure that the motor is toast but am willing to try any troubleshooting steps you might have. If you agree that it is broken, I would like to return it for a refund if you cover the return shipping charges.

This was his reply

Dear Customer, Thank you for getting back to us with the words in details. As we need to report this problem to our supplier and figure out the exact problem, could you please kindly send us a short vedio showing the test so that we can be more clear? You can send the vedio to xcceries at yescomusa dot com with your eBay id. By the way, is the light on the throttle works? Is your battery charged full in use? Look forward to hearing from you soon. Any questions, please feel free to contact us and we will promptly assist you.

I don't even think that he\they are reading my emails. I sent him a few pictures already and am hesitant to put it all back together just to take more pics. It was a PITA to take pics and use the multimeter. I would appreciate any help you guys have to offer.

 

[Drunkskunk]

What specifically is the problem?

Your throttle voltages are normal. you are correct on the hall wires, and their voltages are normal for an unplugged cable. However to get a proper reading, the motor must be plugged in. Then one of the 3 halls should have voltage as well, alternating as the tire is rotated.
You won't be able to get a good reading on the main power wires without an Oscilloscope. The motor is 3 phase Pulse modulated DC at ~16khz, so there is no positive and negative as you're familiar with it, at least not that you will be able to see with a multimeter. Each wire will switch between both, and won't power at all until it gets a good signal from the halls.

 

[MR30]

It does not work. IE the motor does not spin. Everything was plugged in ( I messed with it for hours). I get the voltages described above on the pulse wires but movement from the motor. Am I correct in assuming the motor is toast ? I read a few posts about how to repair motors on this site, should I even try or am I better off just paying for return shipping and going with a more reputable kit ?

 

[wesnewell]

1. Make sure the red button on the throttle is in the out position. That's the controller shutoff button and the motor won't run if it's pushed in.
2. The motor also won't run if one of the ebrake handles is pulled even just slightly. just unplug them at controller to be sure that's not the problem.
Did either of these fix the problem?
Welcome to ES****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)*****
Please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. Once done, your location will appear in every post so you won't have people asking where you are ever again. This will help people help you. Example: Wylie, TX, USA. or just USA, but country as a minimum, and country is the most important. There are many cities with the same name all over the world. Without knowing what country you are in it's hard to make any recommendations. Thank you.

 

[mlt34]

I would also recommend checking the area at the end of the motor axle where the motor wires exit. Ebay kits are hit or miss for quality packaging and your wires could have been damaged (surprisingly easy to do) during shipping. Any sudden impact on the side of the box, if a styrofoam donut isn't there, can sever at least one of the tiny wires. It can even happen inside the insulation, making it hard to know from the outside.

You could also have a damaged or incorrectly installed hall sensor, though less likely. It would cause the same affect as a damaged motor wire.

You can check your hall sensors when the motor is unplugged from the kit by using a voltmeter in diode setting. Place the red lead on the black hall wire (hall wires are the little ones), then place the black lead on the yellow, green, and blue hall wires. The readings should all be the same, or within 1-2% of each other. They'll likely be between 500-800. The exact number isn't important, what matters is that they are all the same. If one is off, or doesn't read, then that's your problem.

 

[dogman dan]

Another easy check.

Unplug the motor completely, then spin it. feel the slight resistance? Now short two of the large wires to the motor, Feel it resist a lot? If there was no change (always resists a lot), you have a short on the phase wires. If the phases are ok, you felt a huge increase when you shorted two phase wires.

Now on to the halls, plugging in the power wires to the halls, check for voltage on and off on all three blue green and yellow wires. If they don't all three toggle on and off as you spin the motor, then there is a broken hall sensor, or a cut wire, or some motors have a little daughter board for halls inside that might be fried.

If all checks out, then the motor is not the problem. It's the wiring harness, or the controller itself. Your throttle did check out.

 

[mateusleo]

What about the ignition wire?

 

[wesnewell]

The ignition wire pair connects to the red power button on the throttle. The controller hooks up just like this, except it doesn't have pas or speed limit wired.
http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=54

 

[mlt34]

What about the ignition wire?

I don't see an ignition wire on the controller pics on ebay. It could be that the red button on the throttle is the type that opens the circuit on the +5V? I've seen a bunch of throttles that take that method as a shortcut.

 

[dnmun]

this guy needs to put the controller and battery together and see if there is a voltage on the hall sensor plug or the throttle.

how he decided a brand new motor is defective when he has no, i repeat NO experience is really a long long stretch.

 

[mlt34]

this guy needs to put the controller and battery together and see if there is a voltage on the hall sensor plug or the throttle.

how he decided a brand new motor is defective when he has no, i repeat NO experience is really a long long stretch.

He already did that. First post shows 4.9V. Controller is fine. Likely it's a wiring issue, perhaps bent pin, or maybe broken wire. He's just gotta find it. And perform the tests we recommended to check the motor.

 

[dnmun]

his first post is a letter to the seller. who reads that stuff?

does each of the hall sensors toggle? did you test the controller mosfets from the phase legs and the battery leads on the controller? if there is 5V on the throttle what is the throttle output voltage?

 

[MR30]

Thanks guys for all the input. I have updated my profile with location. I was thinking it was the motor because I was seeing voltage at the pulse wires when I turn the throttle. I know it is impossible to actually tell but I am seeing upto 9.7v on each wire so I think the controller is good. The on and off switch on the throttle works, the power leds come on when I hit the button. No voltages anywhere unless it is on.

Unread postby dogman » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:11 am
Another easy check. Unplug the motor completely, then spin it. feel the slight resistance? Now short two of the large wires to the motor, Feel it resist a lot? If there was no change (always resists a lot), you have a short on the phase wires. If the phases are ok, you felt a huge increase when you shorted two phase wires.

No I don't get a change in resistance when I short the pulse wires. I have tried all 3 and the resistance is the same. I could not find any obvious damage to the wires themselves but there is a slight discoloration where the wires come out of the wheel\motor and bend. I am going to try to work with the seller, but am deeply disappointed that I did not go with a local vendor.

 

[mlt34]

And you are shorting the thick phase wires to each other, right? i.e. touching the fat green and blue together and comparing the resistance of hand spinning the axle to how it feels without shorting the phase wires? If that's what you did and felt no change between shorted and non shorted axle spinning resistance then that's your problem.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Thanks guys for all the input. I have updated my profile with location. I was thinking it was the motor because I was seeing voltage at the pulse wires when I turn the throttle. I know it is impossible to actually tell but I am seeing upto 9.7v on each wire so I think the controller is good. The on and off switch on the throttle works, the power leds come on when I hit the button. No voltages anywhere unless it is on.

It still doesn't work that way. Those wires switch between Full voltage and ground very fast, but without a signal from the halls, they haven't actively switched on or off. the voltage reading you are getting is bleed through, and could be any value. Its what is often times referred to as Noise.

If your controller was actually able to put out 9 volts readable by your meter with enough current to run a motor, it would be fried, blown, dead.

 

[MR30]

And you are shorting the thick phase wires to each other, right? i.e. touching the fat green and blue together and comparing the resistance of hand spinning the axle to how it feels without shorting the phase wires? If that's what you did and felt no change between shorted and non shorted axle spinning resistance then that's your problem.

Yes that is exactly what I did

 

[mlt34]

And you are shorting the thick phase wires to each other, right? i.e. touching the fat green and blue together and comparing the resistance of hand spinning the axle to how it feels without shorting the phase wires? If that's what you did and felt no change between shorted and non shorted axle spinning resistance then that's your problem.

Yes that is exactly what I did

do you have any experience with these types of motors? enough to say whether the resistance is 'normal' or 'greater than normal'?

If the resistance feels fairly light, which is normal, then you likely have some severed wires in there. If the resistance is pretty tough, such that its hard to spin the axle, you likely have shorted wires in there. Either way it's a fairly serious problem for a beginner to try to fix, and the seller should DEFINITELY be obligated to replace the motor. Now whether that will happen or not is going to be a different story. It sucks that you wound up in this situation. It's ironic because just today I wrote an article for my site about whether ebay kits are 'worth it' or not...

 

[dnmun]

it could be a geared hub motor. i don't think there are any pictures.

 

[mlt34]

it could be a geared hub motor. i don't think there are any pictures.

There were pics on the ebay page he linked to.

 

[wesnewell]

According to the link, he bought a 36V 800W DD yescomusa kit from their ebay seller xcceries.

 

[dogman dan]

Ok, we did establish that the controller turns on, the throttle works, and the phases are not shorted. Cut phases are very unlikely in a new motor with no damage at the axles.

That still leaves the possibility of a bad halls inside the motor, or why 90% of motors that won't run, just a loose pin in the plugs.

Or, it could actually be the controller, but I have seen nothing to make me think that yet.

 

[mlt34]

Ok, we did establish that the controller turns on, the throttle works, and the phases are not shorted. Cut phases are very unlikely in a new motor with no damage at the axles.

That still leaves the possibility of a bad halls inside the motor, or why 90% of motors that won't run, just a loose pin in the plugs.

Or, it could actually be the controller, but I have seen nothing to make me think that yet.

I think shorted phases is still a possibility that isn't ruled out. He only said the resistance didn't change, that could be because it is already shorted somewhere in the motor, or due to damaged wiring. He could just be feeling the same 'shorted phase' resistance regardless of what he does with the connector tips. That's why I asked I'm if it feels like a little or a lot of resistance (though that's subjective and will be hard to determine for sure if he doesn't have more experience or another motor to compare with).

 

[wesnewell]

Can someone out there with a stock controller yescomusa kit confirm or deny that the LEDS go out when you push the red power button on the throttle? I don't recall the leds going out, but I haven't run the controller in over 3 years. I think he's just got something wired wrong, although I think I recall one person getting a bad controller.

 

[mlt34]

Can someone out there with a stock controller yescomusa kit confirm or deny that the LEDS go out when you push the red power button on the throttle? I don't recall the leds going out, but I haven't run the controller in over 3 years. I think he's just got something wired wrong, although I think I recall one person getting a bad controller.

I once got a bad controller - they can be hit or miss.

 

[MR30]

So I tried to work things out with the seller and he would not cover return shipping. It was going to be around $ 60 to send it back so I took apart the motor and ran my own phase wires to it. It was actually pretty easy to solder the new wires once I figured out what I was doing and it works. I used 12 AWG wires instead of the 16 that it came with. I highly recommenced that you guys stay away from ebay seller xcceries Horrible communication was not helpful in the least. If you need to buy a kit go with one of reputable sellers on this board. Thank you all for all the help.