One thing that concerns me is the drive sprocket. It appears to be a custom-made sprocket, which means that it could be made obsolete by the company one day if they move on to newer products, or spares would be unavailable if the company goes out of business. Without that sprocket, the entire drive unit is useless. Nice that the stock 12t looks like it's narrow-wide. Presumably the 10t also is, but it wouldn't be possible for the 9t.
'lightest.bike' 1.7kg 1000w mid drive
- Thread starter Grantmac
- Start date
colsaunders2
10 mW
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2019
- Messages
- 28
I'm curious if this kit would work in the "short mount" dual-sprocket configuration with the Gates belt drive? It looks like the spider would accept BCD 104 sprockets, but it would need to be the inboard sprocket in order to be compatible with most IGHs (I have the N380 with a 45.5 mm beltline). The installation video mentions different size spacers, so perhaps it's possible to line up the pinion gear with the outer sprocket?
It would also be good to know the required BB spindle length for single and dual/triple chainrings.
It would also be good to know the required BB spindle length for single and dual/triple chainrings.
TJP
10 µW
Matteo:
Please respond to this issue:
I am a mechanical engineer with heat transfer experience.
One low cost solution would be to mold external fins into the Al case for air cooling.
How do you plan to dissipate 1 kw heat with such a small case?
Please respond to this issue:
ferret said:
I am a mechanical engineer with heat transfer experience.
One low cost solution would be to mold external fins into the Al case for air cooling.
How do you plan to dissipate 1 kw heat with such a small case?
See the last update on indiegogo, they made AL fins in the case...
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lightest-ebike-kit-your-bike-with-superpowers#/updates/all
The 1kW version has an external controller, the internal goes "only" up to 750 nominal (1000W peak)
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lightest-ebike-kit-your-bike-with-superpowers#/updates/all
The 1kW version has an external controller, the internal goes "only" up to 750 nominal (1000W peak)
Woah, this is a really nice drive system.. i like that the drive unit is a separate part and uses as many ordinary bike parts as possible.. and light.. and keeps the chainline.. and from what i can tell, doesn't create a big extra Q factor on one side..
This hits all my wants for a mid drive that i've been waiting for.
Quick question.. can the stock controller and motor on the 500w take a 14S ( 51v nominal ) battery safely? because i have two 14S batteries here.
Happy to see you continuing to evolve your products, Matteo!
This hits all my wants for a mid drive that i've been waiting for.
Quick question.. can the stock controller and motor on the 500w take a 14S ( 51v nominal ) battery safely? because i have two 14S batteries here.
Happy to see you continuing to evolve your products, Matteo!
In the comments they talk about 48V max, not possible with 52V (for the less than 1000W versions). See the answer to "Reid Joy":
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lightest-ebike-kit-your-bike-with-superpowers#/comments
I don't work for them, but I've ordered one and can't wait to get it
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lightest-ebike-kit-your-bike-with-superpowers#/comments
I don't work for them, but I've ordered one and can't wait to get it
Pilot Engineer said:
Matteo, this looks very good, at least on paper. I especially like that the motor keeps a decent q-factor. The Bafangs and Tongsheng motors are hurting my knees.
After giving this a thorough google-fu session, I still have some questions:
*Which bottom brackets may I use? External Shimano cups? Can I freely chose between square taper or ISIS mount? Do all variants only add 3 mm of pedal stance to one side and can I use a BB shim to correct that?
*At what pedal cadence does the motor give out? I understand it depends on the cog and battery voltage. Let's say the 1000W version with a 52V battery and 12t cog; can I keep 100 rpm and still have the motor pull a good force?
*Concerning pedals and chain wheel guard: are all compatible? (I expect to order custom pedals from Miranda or similar.)
*There's no update on Indiegogo. Guestimate has been delivery in october, does that still hold?
*Are other displays compatible? Reason is, the SW102 and Eggrider are not ideal for drop bars, due to the lack of a remote that can be fitted closer to the hoods. Any way to order just the motor and use one of the displays I already own? I even have two SW102 already, not that I use them on the drop bar tourer.
Good luck with your project, Matteo! I hope this turns out a success!
/Björn
[youtube]1z0gMimBg1Q[/youtube]
They posted a new video today claiming that the smaller unit seems to do 800W continuous in a cold environment. I imagine that would mean 700w-ish at room temp.
This is like the CYC Pro X1's little brother. Similar power per lb. My question is.. does it also have the same efficiency roughly.. IE in the 90% range. This is possible using high grade RC motor type construction. There's motors with 0.15mm lams floating out there nowadays.
I'm looking forward to seeing more and might pick one up for myself. Sent an email asking for more info on the efficiency.
They posted a new video today claiming that the smaller unit seems to do 800W continuous in a cold environment. I imagine that would mean 700w-ish at room temp.
This is like the CYC Pro X1's little brother. Similar power per lb. My question is.. does it also have the same efficiency roughly.. IE in the 90% range. This is possible using high grade RC motor type construction. There's motors with 0.15mm lams floating out there nowadays.
I'm looking forward to seeing more and might pick one up for myself. Sent an email asking for more info on the efficiency.
Grantmac
10 kW
I remain very interested in this unit although I think it might require very specific frame shapes.
If they made a Bafang M600 drop in setup that could be amazing with the number of frames becoming available for that drive.
If they made a Bafang M600 drop in setup that could be amazing with the number of frames becoming available for that drive.
They do sell a long mount, so it'll work for some pretty goofy bikes. Will probably work for my recumbents.
I imagine that fitting to different size BBs is just a matter of adding spacers.
You could also pretty easily modify the chain idlers if you need to.
I imagine that fitting to different size BBs is just a matter of adding spacers.
You could also pretty easily modify the chain idlers if you need to.
Grantmac
10 kW
I'd like to mount it inside the triangle and I think it can't mount too far above the BB.
aCeMadMod
1 kW
hi are where we
up for sale what frame dose it take?
is a permade ebike thank you
up for sale what frame dose it take?
is a permade ebike thank you
fireflyer451
100 mW
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2019
- Messages
- 41
I am wondering if this could be adapted to a recumbent trike?
aCeMadMod
1 kW
i am for all tor mid drives
i hope they one cheap that soon
i hope they one cheap that soon
fireflyer451 said:
With some customization, very likely.
If you have two chain stages on your bike, then this is very easy. The output sprocket runs between 250 and 350rpm depending on the wattage motor you buy, so if your front stage has a typical 1:1.5 reduction, then with the 350rpm motor ( 1000w ), you only need to run a 1:3.3 reduction to your second stage at the most.. this will give you the best efficiency since you are skipping a chain stage..
Otherwise this depends on the design of your trike's boom. If you have the clearance to run a bbs02 then you can run this motor in the front just like someone with a MTB would :thumb:
Btw i got a response to my question about the motor stator.. it has 0.25mm lams.
It should easily be more efficient than any other mid drive out there, except the CYC Pro X2/1.
It also has a bit less reduction than most mid drive systems because of how it works with the chainline. This also increases efficiency. However there may be more chain wear due to less sprocket wrap around the chain. Considering this, I think this drive might be best at the 750w or 500w power rating. We will know when people have put some long term miles on this drive.
It should easily be more efficient than any other mid drive out there, except the CYC Pro X2/1.
It also has a bit less reduction than most mid drive systems because of how it works with the chainline. This also increases efficiency. However there may be more chain wear due to less sprocket wrap around the chain. Considering this, I think this drive might be best at the 750w or 500w power rating. We will know when people have put some long term miles on this drive.
Grantmac
10 kW
I'm tempted to do a similar chain routing with a small geared hub as a budget version, also using chain slack for torque sensing. But if they actually start shipping these soon I much prefer a finished product.
Should be very possible to build a bike under 40lbs with a 500w/hr battery.
Should be very possible to build a bike under 40lbs with a 500w/hr battery.
Grantmac said:
That's exactly what i planned to do with a Keyde motor that is claiming 90% efficiency at a 2.3kg size due to it's dual internal reduction gears. And you can shave about 300g of weight off it by cutting the axle short and shaving the case too.
This mid drive motor is quite nice though because it's a bit lighter per watt outputted, easier to mount, and has a sprocket on the end already. So it's an awesome alternative to the hub drive idea.
I am actually surprised more people are not doing hub drives with the smaller dual reduction geared motors. The power/weight ratio ends up less than BBS02/TDZS2, in most cases you get better efficiency, more durability, and you also end up with a nice Q factor and chainline.
Grantmac
10 kW
I was thinking of the 1.7kg Q100H then just run a threaded track cog with a lock ring and plenty of threadlock.
I thought of the Q85 but I think the extra 0.4kg won't be a huge difference and the power output is significantly less.
Throw the shell on the lathe, shorten the axle and I'm guessing I can take off 200-300g. Then its just mounting.
I may not even run a freewheeling crank if the TS setup I'm planning can respond fast enough. Or else just use the standard ISIS set that everyone uses. I just need some sort of potentiometer or strain gauge on the chain idler then run it into the throttle input on the controller. Cheap and simple.
I thought of the Q85 but I think the extra 0.4kg won't be a huge difference and the power output is significantly less.
Throw the shell on the lathe, shorten the axle and I'm guessing I can take off 200-300g. Then its just mounting.
I may not even run a freewheeling crank if the TS setup I'm planning can respond fast enough. Or else just use the standard ISIS set that everyone uses. I just need some sort of potentiometer or strain gauge on the chain idler then run it into the throttle input on the controller. Cheap and simple.
Grantmac said:
These Akema dual reduction motors seem to have low efficiency in general. I'd avoid
Try a smaller shengyi ( check their site ), or a keyde. Both have 86% or higher efficiency due to really thin lams. And higher power density as a side effect.
The keyde S110 series is the most promising to me because it has an internal controller. That controller can be removed and probably replaced with oil. The motor could shed heat pretty well with that trick.
neptronix said:
You dont happen to know where to get these Shengyi motors? The DGW12M looks interesting for one of my bikes that already has the brackets setup for an Aikeema 75sx mid drive. This one would drop right in I think, but it doesnt look like it would be easy to buy 1 of them anywhere....
HrKlev said:
Some resellers have them listed on aliexpress under varying model names and not so accurate descriptions.. :lol:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32691525377.html
Grantmac
10 kW
The shengyi is quite a lot more than the Q100/85 which puts the total cost really close to the Lightest. Especially if we start looking at mounts and crank hardware.
Sometimes a cheaper motor is a lower value motor.
The Q100H peaks at 81.5% efficiency and is good 350 watts continuous; perhaps less because of that low efficiency, whereas the Shengyi of equivalent weight is likely push 500 watts and are said to peak at 86-87% efficiency.. that and the higher quality construction i think is worth paying the extra $40 shipped cost for.
The Shengyi would also respond to overvolting better ( The Q100H is already immediately beyond it's heat dissipation limit at 36v ) but i am not sure how much further you can push it because i can't extract any dyno graphs out of the sales people.
The biggest difference between the Q100H and the Shengyi is the thickness of laminations, which is probably a $10-$20 price difference for a tiny motor this size. And the cassette freewheel, another ~$10. I think the price is totally worth paying.
The Q100H peaks at 81.5% efficiency and is good 350 watts continuous; perhaps less because of that low efficiency, whereas the Shengyi of equivalent weight is likely push 500 watts and are said to peak at 86-87% efficiency.. that and the higher quality construction i think is worth paying the extra $40 shipped cost for.
The Shengyi would also respond to overvolting better ( The Q100H is already immediately beyond it's heat dissipation limit at 36v ) but i am not sure how much further you can push it because i can't extract any dyno graphs out of the sales people.
The biggest difference between the Q100H and the Shengyi is the thickness of laminations, which is probably a $10-$20 price difference for a tiny motor this size. And the cassette freewheel, another ~$10. I think the price is totally worth paying.
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