'lightest.bike' 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

The manual format does not make any sense, there is no way you can print it properly as booklet or any format. They should redo it in A4. Pictures are ridiculously small and their layout is terrible. (n)

All the new instructions on the bb are a bit confusing, and by my experience on the bsa 68/73mm bb, what they show is not really correct.
Still their Italian website does not show the download page, it's only there in the american version.:rolleyes:

I don't think this is the best kit for someone who has not installed a mid-drive before.
 
Understatement. I have done 3, none of which took more than 2 hours, and I wouldn't want to take this on. Seems like you also need some way to decode the BB instructions and maybe have a machine shop on the premises. And that chain to chairing contact... or lack thereof? That just doesn't look good to me. But I hope they run fast, strong and long for you guys.

I don't think this is the best kit for someone who has not installed a mid-drive before.
 
I don't think this is the best kit for someone who has not installed a mid-drive before.

Nope, not for newbies, definitely going to require at least a trip to the hardware store and some staring at things and being puzzled at a bare minimum.

Consider we are all first adopters of v1.0 here and this is basically a new concept of how to build a mid drive.

Feel free to sit on the benches while the forum sorts it out :es:
 
I would love to know what this motor _actually_ weighs with those thick mounting brackets and hardware with the square taper BB. The BBSHD is heavy, but it is a single, seamless unit.

Here's my weights on a bathroom scale:
Entire box, including box weight: 9.5-10lbs
Drive unit itself: 3.5-4lbs

Compare to this to a BBSHD kit ( without box ) at 15lbs, so 16-17lbs total.

Some of the included hardware in this kit isn't the 'lightest' itself. This kit could be lighter. At least the lightness is where it counts - in the motor unit.

i would imagine it adds 6lbs to a bike. Small weight price to pay for 1000w. Very likely a high quality motor is inside given the weight ( i'm not willing to void my warranty to find out yet 😓 )
 
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Here are the mounts i recieved.

I'm thinking the 'mid mount' one is on the left and what's on the right is a short mount... am i correct?

IMG_20230821_194408512.jpg
 
Yeah many sources put the bbshd drive unit at 12lbs but the unpackaged kit at 15lbs.

Well 6lbs is my estimate based on a bathroom scale so give or take 1lb for the actual installed weight. (y)
 
Nah, i never tried one, didn't like the huge pedal offset aka bad biomechanics.

Wow that's rather close to 13lbs :O
 
Understatement. I have done 3, none of which took more than 2 hours, and I wouldn't want to take this on. Seems like you also need some way to decode the BB instructions and maybe have a machine shop on the premises. And that chain to chairing contact... or lack thereof? That just doesn't look good to me. But I hope they run fast, strong and long for you guys.

My 1st and so far only one took about 3 hours. Not counting the dozen hours figuring out how not to drop the drive chain (must use the stock teflon pulley and put longer motor bolts around the chain that overlap it just by 1-2mm to form a makeshift chain guide, but still allow the chain to be taken off if needed).

The completely 110% ironic thing about it: the kit was complete crap, zero instructions, and that actually helped. Because I didn't have to do it a certain way, I could improvise where I could to make it work. It allowed a freedom of thinking outside the box instead of strict, copyrighted instructions. When you buy stuff that the bike shops will not touch, you have to make it work, there is no choice. You have to get better at making stuff work, or it will never work!
 
I have been working on pedal bikes for years so these TSDZ2, Photon, and X1 installs were easy. Nothing to figure out as they go on one way... well it might get more complicated if you wanted the X1 inside the triangle, I suppose.

As for this "Lightest" motor, I don't understand the fascination and emphasis on weight. When you have 1000W, a pound here and there is nothing. I DO understand how you BBS guys might be a little more sensitive to this what with the BBSHD being such a heavy pig. Seems to me that motor might be more suited to heavy duty cargo bikes. But the other mid motor kits in the ~7 pound range are plenty light enough. You can't even tell they are there from a bike handling perspective.

My 1st and so far only one took about 3 hours. Not counting the dozen hours figuring out how not to drop the drive chain (must use the stock teflon pulley and put longer motor bolts around the chain that overlap it just by 1-2mm to form a makeshift chain guide, but still allow the chain to be taken off if needed).

The completely 110% ironic thing about it: the kit was complete crap, zero instructions, and that actually helped. Because I didn't have to do it a certain way, I could improvise where I could to make it work. It allowed a freedom of thinking outside the box instead of strict, copyrighted instructions. When you buy stuff that the bike shops will not touch, you have to make it work, there is no choice. You have to get better at making stuff work, or it will never work!
 
As for this "Lightest" motor, I don't understand the fascination and emphasis on weight. When you have 1000W, a pound here and there is nothing. I DO understand how you BBS guys might be a little more sensitive to this what with the BBSHD being such a heavy pig. Seems to me that motor might be more suited to heavy duty cargo bikes. But the other mid motor kits in the ~7 pound range are plenty light enough. You can't even tell they are there from a bike handling perspective.

It's not just the weight, it's also:
- Uses mostly bicycle parts for the drivetrain; dramatically more mounting/alignment/improvement options thanks to this
- Higher efficiency
- Good torque sensing
- Way less biomechanics-interfering pedal offset on the drive side compared to other mid drives; theoretically reduceable to 0mm

If these things are not important to you then it makes sense that you wouldn't be interested in it.
 
I have been working on pedal bikes for years so these TSDZ2, Photon, and X1 installs were easy. Nothing to figure out as they go on one way... well it might get more complicated if you wanted the X1 inside the triangle, I suppose.

As for this "Lightest" motor, I don't understand the fascination and emphasis on weight. When you have 1000W, a pound here and there is nothing. I DO understand how you BBS guys might be a little more sensitive to this what with the BBSHD being such a heavy pig. Seems to me that motor might be more suited to heavy duty cargo bikes. But the other mid motor kits in the ~7 pound range are plenty light enough. You can't even tell they are there from a bike handling perspective.

Normal non-ebike reply first: Yes, weight really doesn't count as much for performance on an e-bike as on a human-powered bike. And really, the lightweight mountain bikes are there to win 30-50 mile races. I'm getting tired of my 32mm stanchioned 3.2 lb $600 fork (MSRP $1400) --- it's great on paper but you can really feel the flex when going down rocky or washboard areas of the trail. Yes, it is very fast on hardpack, yes it can really put up surprisingly good numbers compared to other bikes & riders who actually know what they are doing (as in I'm on a hardtail, flat pedals, 27.5 tires, all supposedly inferior), and yes the fork has won World XC Races. But for everyday run of the mill trail riding, I'm getting sick of it. The bike is 24.5 lbs right now including dropper post. Adding a pound to put on a 34 fork that's much stiffer and can handle chunky, rutted terrain better would for sure help, and the timed segment runs may not even change much either way, or may improve a bit overall, we'll see later. Sometimes, especially if you are not racing, it's not just about the component on paper or the performance numbers, it's about having fun, the ability to handle the trail good, and comfort.

E-bike reply second: the weight weenie stuff applies to both kinds of bikes --- if you are going to try and save weight, you have to do it with multiple components, not just one. The lightest version of this thread's kit has the 250W motor paired with a small 36V battery. So yes it is lighter for the motor and battery than the other brand-name motor/batteries on Trek / Marin / Nukeproof / Orbea / Santa Cruz and others. But let's look at the Specialized S-Works Turbo Kenevo SL. 42 lbs with 170 mm of front suspension travel in an e-bike. Excellent, considering most Enduro FS non-ebikes are at least 32 lbs and many are 38 lbs. But the motor only puts out 32 Nm and the whole thing costs $15,000 USD. That's just ridiculous. OK, so you get a more natural bike feel with 42 total lbs, but I would for sure try this thread's kit mated to a carbon hardtail or even FS frame first and still save a ton of money doing the conversion. And a bike that should end up 40-45 lbs. With more torque.

I was a little bummed my hardtail ended up 50 lbs with the 9 lb motor, 9 lb battery, and 5 lbs of extra stuff like the controller, display, motor mounts, cables, etc. ). Thought it end up more like 45-48 lbs. But it's OK. It can still pedal w/o motor on a flat surface just fine, and slight uphills w/o motor are not nearly as bad as I assumed they would be. (I am more in shape now than before, apparently!). 5 lbs of weight difference on an e-bike is barely even noticeable. My hub drive bike is 55 lbs and I just slightly notice the 5 lb difference.
 
Because i like to go long distances at 25-40mph, i tend to have a battery that's >= 20lbs. Because i have roads full of tire poppers, i also tend to use a rear motorcycle tire, which adds another 2-3lbs to the bike.

For this reason... if i can cut pounds off other parts of the bike, it's worth every penny... a ~6lbs installed motor helps achieve that goal.
( What i would prefer is 500whr/kg batteries, but we're not there yet 😕 )
 
I will provide some more accurate weights later on.

But..
By the weight of things and how the materials feel, i think it's possible to get to -1lbs on the 'lightest' kit without having to fork out for really exotic bike components.
 
Another feature of this motor is the flexibility of mounting options. I will be mounting on CF fat bike with 100mm BB. Because of the thickness around the BB, Bafang, TSZD2, and CYC photon do not have the required spindle clearance.
 
Another feature of this motor is the flexibility of mounting options. I will be mounting on CF fat bike with 100mm BB. Because of the thickness around the BB, Bafang, TSZD2, and CYC photon do not have the required spindle clearance.

But I thought the CYC X1 Stealth can fit on fat bike frames too. Besides a couple pounds of weight difference, and 'possibly' less noise which really hasn't been resolved either way yet, what exactly makes this kit superior to the Stealth kit?
 
Can anyone provide some suggestions on how I interface from my existing Anderson power pole connectors from my battery mount to the interface that is used for power input on the lightest ebike kit? What adapter do I need to purchase? What is the name of the adapter that is used on the Lightest ebike kit for power? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! IMG-5636.jpg
 
But I thought the CYC X1 Stealth can fit on fat bike frames too. Besides a couple pounds of weight difference, and 'possibly' less noise which really hasn't been resolved either way yet, what exactly makes this kit superior to the Stealth kit?
I've seen that the Stealth & X1 Pro MIGHT be made to fit, with some unavailable options, but on their main page they do not list fitting on 100 or 120mm BB.
 
Can anyone provide some suggestions on how I interface from my existing Anderson power pole connectors from my battery mount to the interface that is used for power input on the lightest ebike kit? What adapter do I need to purchase? What is the name of the adapter that is used on the Lightest ebike kit for power? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Info back on pp 9-10. It's an MT60. I've verified with Bikee support, the 3rd pin is NOT connected internally on motor, so no risk of frying things if you plug it on wrong.
 

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The X1 pro officially supports, and has parts for "68-83mm, 100mm, 120mm BSA & Pressfit version available"

The Stealth does not appear to have fatbike support.
Yeah the BB shaft is extremely long though and may make for poor fitment on regular bike sized BBs.
Will lead to a very poor chainline / worst biolmechanics possible.

I also think an unpedalable cadence comes standard on those drives.

That makes basically all the CYC products a non-starter for me unfortunately.
 
Yeah the BB shaft is extremely long though and may make for poor fitment on regular bike sized BBs.
Will lead to a very poor chainline / worst biolmechanics possible.

I also think an unpedalable cadence comes standard on those drives.

That makes basically all the CYC products a non-starter for me unfortunately.

Is the CYC stuff as bad as a Cylone for having to keep the cadence up?

Here's another webpage with the X1 Pro internal gearing and chainring options:

X1 Pro Review - Drivetrain Ratio Focused

  • 11/53 with 32 tooth bike chainring
  • 11/63 with 38 tooth bike chainring
  • 12/72 with 42 tooth bike chainring

Some notes: "For the 11/53, one turn of the motor would generate 0.208 turns of the chainring. For 11/63, one turn of the motor would generate 0.175 turns of the chainring. So the 11/53 gear will drive the cranks/pedals further and faster than the 11/63 per each turn of the motor. I believe that is what contributes to the feeling of better low end torque on the 11/53. It drives the chainring faster for a given RPM which ultimately determines your speed. The downside of this is that you will not be able to reach as high of a motor RPM before your legs hit redline. When I pedal the 11/53 as fast as my legs can possibly go, I can hear and feel the extra RPM the motor is willing to give me, but I am rarely able to use. The other gearing choices will allow you to reach those motor RPMs more easily and utilize that extra power."


So basically what he's saying is the motor has too much power to still use at the top end. To me I don't think that's really equivalent to a motor that starts overheating if you are not pedaling more than 100 RPM. What is the pedal RPM needed to top out each gear on a CYC? Is it like 150 RPM or something?
 
Is the CYC stuff as bad as a Cylone for having to keep the cadence up?

Every time i've looked at a CYC product over the last 5 years they all had some combination of:
- Unpedalable cadence
- Extreme offset in one pedal
- Extreme added width on both pedals ( >10mm )

IE not interested in biomechanics or exercise in this design; willing to compromise that whenever needed in favor of power.

Let me know if this ever changes, but this is my understanding of CYC mid drives
 
Thanks for the input on hub vs mid.

I really hope that this motor turns out well, because it will be so much more affordable than spending like 7 to $10,000 on a turbo creo with 4lb motor from specialized or something like that. It would be so great to slap it on a used carbon fiber bike, or a titanium Brompton with a good huge rack battery or included battery. The specialized bike also only gets like 40 NM torque, and this is allegedly supposed to provide 90 torque with 30 output. Would make the perfect e mtn bike too or recumbent etc. So much potential, the Creo only has 35nm torque, the 31lb model is 7-9k and the 28lb sworks model is a whopping 11k+. For that I could buy the world's lightest climbing bike at 9lb , or a good 15 lb bike and throw this on at 250w with the adapter to use larger batteries and have an absolute beast of a lightweight e road bike

What really makes me hold out for Hope with this motor is the triple alleged power output, is there any way for people to confirm this? I wonder if that would make it markedly better than a hub.


Seems confusing for the average bike shop to put together though. I wouldn't know much about it. Wouldn't mind hiring someone on here if they get good with it
 
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Thanks for the input on hub vs mid.

I really hope that this motor turns out well, because it will be so much more affordable than spending like 7 to $10,000 on a turbo creo with 4lb motor from specialized or something like that. It would be so great to slap it on a used carbon fiber bike, or a titanium Brompton with a good huge rack battery or included battery. The specialized bike also only gets like 40 NM torque, and this is allegedly supposed to provide 90 torque with 30 output. Would make the perfect e mtn bike too or recumbent etc. So much potential, the Creo only has 35nm torque, the 31lb model is 7-9k and the 28lb sworks model is a whopping 11k+. For that I could buy the world's lightest climbing bike at 9lb , or a good 15 lb bike and throw this on at 250w with the adapter to use larger batteries and have an absolute beast of a lightweight e road bike

What really makes me hold out for Hope with this motor is the triple alleged power output, is there any way for people to confirm this? I wonder if that would make it markedly better than a hub.


Seems confusing for the average bike shop to put together though. I wouldn't know much about it. Wouldn't mind hiring someone on here if they get good with it

Others here can answer that much more technically, but if they are tripling the output it's either 3x internal or external (double chain) reduction gearing. Only other way that I know of would be running multiple chainrings to the cassette and they would do something like 22 / 33/ 44 which is 2x difference with 22/44 not 3x. And really it's probably better just to add some double chain noise with a drive chain and then run 1x normal chain to the cassette than try a double or triple crankset an a mid-drive. I thought a 2x chainring mid-drive would be cool, but there is really no need for 2x to the cassette, it's useless. Plenty of torque with 1x, either all internal reduction or some external w/double chainring.

So for those who are confused by the above. A double chain drive 'does' have two chainrings but one just goes to the motor sprocket, and one goes normally to the rear cassette. So it does have two, but that's much better than one chain going to two sizes of chainrings with a front derailleur on a mid-drive. More reduction, more torque, both chainrings can be narrow-wide so the chains have a much harder time to come off. Unless you did what I did earlier and put on an aftermarket 13T pulley instead of keeping the smaller smoother tensioner.
 
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