LightningRods mid drive, givitago's build

[jdevo2004]

As to the bending bracket, add spacers on the shaft between where bracket straddles, use nuts since you would need like 50 or so normal spacers.

As for the throttle cutting out on the CA, could it be your brakes cutting the power? Unhook the brake line and try it then.

Up your watts to 2000 and see how that affects acceleration? Is your cycle analyst set up properly? Throttle out up rate 20 volts, Throttle out down rate 20 volts, Throttle out fast rate 20 volts, Throttle out fast thrash 0.00 amps. Power limit Amp Gain 60, Power Limit Watt Gain 60.

Good Luck.

 

[ebike11]

So I tried upping the phase amps on my controller. It did increase acceleration slightly but still did not rival the Mac. I think I can accept that this kit seems more like a tractor than a dragster. The downside was a large decrease in range so I put it back to around 30/75 amps battery/phase.

I've been beset by other issues on the bike unfortunately. My CA now cuts out the throttle under harder acceleration. The spedometer starts showing 0 kph or jumps to hundreds of KPH. I wonder if it was the reprogramming of the controller. I didn't disconnect it when I reprogrammed.

I also snapped my 2001 vanilla coil spring. I was lucky that the local suspension shop had an old one available. I learned that they don't make such puny springs anymore and even air shocks will be bigger. If the shock finally gives it up, I won't be able to replace it with anything else that would still give enough room for my battery box. Seems to be lots of reasons why these older DH frames make for good conversion candidates.

I replaced my derailleur with a shimano SLX from Chain Reaction Cycles. Horray, no duty! I'm hoping it will reduce the chain skipping issues I've had from my very old XT derailleur that was cracked. Hope the SLX derailleur is as good as those brakes I got.

Regarding the issues with the 219 chain becoming loose because the kit twists, I took the advice from the main thread and moved the spacer on the down tube bracket to the other side. I also installed a turnbuckle anchored to a cable that will resist any twisting. It hooks into the jackshaft slot an crosses the kit and is anchored to a cable wrapped around the frame. I can also use it to tighten the chain by twisting the kit in the opposite direction. I noticed the same bending of the downtube bracket that I saw in photos on the main thread.

I'm hoping I can get the CA issue resolved soon so I can get riding again!

Hi!
may I ask which Mac motor you have?

 

[givitago]

may I ask which Mac motor you have?

10T with a 9Fet 3077 controller. It is a great motor or at least was. I think I may have cooked it a bit

As to the bending bracket, add spacers on the shaft between where bracket straddles, use nuts since you would need like 50 or so normal spacers.

Thanks for the tip. I'll give that a try if my turnbuckle solution doesn't work. I stick all the wiring through that bracket and it is pretty tight already so I'd prefer to keep it as open as possible.

As for the throttle cutting out on the CA, could it be your brakes cutting the power? Unhook the brake line and try it then.

No, that definitely isn't it - it definitely is related to the power level. I emailed ebikes.ca and Justin gave me this tip to stop the cut-outs even with a flaky speedometer:

If you set both DSGain and PSGain to zero and IntSGain to a very low number (but not quite zero), then you won't experience any cutouts in these circumstances

He also suggested my magnet/sensor was out of position. That was my first throught too, but it all seems to work flawlessly until I hammer the throttle. Almost like some stray current is causing the issue. I have a spare controller and will try that when I get the time.

Up your watts to 2000 and see how that affects acceleration? Is your cycle analyst set up properly? Throttle out up rate 20 volts, Throttle out down rate 20 volts, Throttle out fast rate 20 volts, Throttle out fast thrash 0.00 amps. Power limit Amp Gain 60, Power Limit Watt Gain 60.

Yes, that is what I did when I reprogrammed the controller. It did help some, but not enough for me to sacrifice the difference in range. For the most part, I only notice the slower acceleration on the road so I can live with it. Regarding the CA, I tested with pass-through mode which shouldn't have any power limiting. I have a very fast ramp rate setup as well. I think perhaps the MAC motor is just a snappier/more efficient motor. I"d expect it to be as there are fewer moving parts. But the drawbacks of fixed gearing, weight distribution and poor heat shedding make the LR kit a better choice for my application. If the speedo issue does turn out to be a controller, I think I'll try a lyen controller to see if there is a difference.

 

[givitago]

A little update on the build:

Fixed the speedometer issue. I swapped out the controller and it didn't help. In the process of testing the reed switch completely failed so I replaced it (and upped it to two magnets as I thought that might help any reed switch bouncing issues). That was the issue in any case. I think Justin might have also put an update in the latest CA firmware to deal with bouncing reed switches but not sure about that.

My turnbuckle hasn't really done the trick for twisting mounts. It is really too small with soft metal so I think it just stretches. When I get some time I will need to make a proper torque arm off the frame. I'll probably try to make my own turnbuckle based arm so it is adjustable. Something out of high grade bolts and pipe. I have to spend an hour or so after every ride adjusting my mismatch of bolts to get the chain tight. It is getting old.

I broke my first belt about a month back. I was going pretty fast over a rock garden and the belt didn't like that sort of shock. It was quite the tiring ride home without the motor! Fortunately I bought a spare belt so not too much of an issue.

I sourced some GT3 belts (supposed to be compatible with the GT2 belt but allegedly 30% stronger) from Gates Belts Direct. $50 for two including shipping. But then they phoned me and said that didn't apply to Canada and that Gates won't ship directly across the border. SO price went over $100 with a likely UPS duty bill when it gets to my door. Local auto parts store is ordering a couple for $40 each.

Plan on ordering the improved upper sheets and dual bolt tensioner from Mike at some point as well.

The bike is still lots of fun. I get lots of smiles (and jeers) when I pass people pushing their bikes up the local hill. Its fantastic to be able to take a quick rip up the mountain for an hour or so with no sore knees and energy left to spare.

 

[nutnspecial]

Yo Givitago! Thankyou for doing the write up on your latest build. I found it very informative! I am unexperienced but am learning alot to try to build my bike (old klein mantra).

I have a couple ?'s if you have a chance to answer;

Since you've owned and ran the 10t as well as the LR and ran on similar terrain, how did it perform overall? ie highspeed and usable lowspeed for uphill and technical stuff? I've gathered it was a little quicker accel. and similar top speed, but couldn't sustain climbs, and possibly you really dislike the handling (unsprung weight) compared to unpowered or middrive?

My bike is pretty light, and I enjoy the handling currently when goofing off and doing technical stuff- That's why I'm undecided which (and hopefully only) kit to choose.

so here's a bit of a barrage of questions; I apologize, but any help is greatly appreciated!
How is the wear with the standard chain? (longevity)
Is the slr rear performing well?
doesn't anyone have an upgraded chain/cassette better suited for the torque?
have you tried sinewave to quite the motor?
i assume the acceleration could be inproved with a smaller chainring (either the 219 sprocket or a chainring?)

If money wasn't an option and you were to try another build, what do you think of the mxus 5 or 6t?
The main downside is obviously 20lbs unsprung, and I really wonder how that would act in your conditions as well as it's performance on steep technical climbs. Upside is extreme acceleration and only a little higher top speed is my understanding.
Also are you running stock rims and maybe 2.3" tires?

I liked your vids too, some really nice trails and obstacles. I want to try a chest mount someday.
Thanks man!!

 

[givitago]

Glad to hear that this thread is useful.

The Mac is a great little motor and had lots of get-up and go, particularly in the 20km + speed range. Quite quiet (I had an older one where the inner magnet bowl was solid). It sustained climbs but I feel like it got less torquey as time passed. Likely this is because I was overheating the magnets. The middrive can climb more because in tight sections, you can move slowly like a tractor. But you don't have that 2stroke like acceleration for launching yourself over obstacles. For smoother, flatter terrain, I'd still choose the Mac. I'm not sure why people are going with the mid-drives for road use. I get it if you have a 250W legal limit but otherwise?? The hubs are much less maintenance and more reliable, particularly the DDs. I think I am spending as much time fixing and adjusting this system as I am riding.

So far, chain wear hasn't been an issue for me as I don't use it much (I commute to work with a regular bike). I do get some chain skipping and have mangled my cassette - teeth torn off and bent larger cogs. Also getting some chain suck issues. Count on replacing chain and cassettes often - I just buy cheap ones.

I haven't tried a sinewave yet. I haven't seen much talk of using the adaptto on any freewheeling system. I got the impression it could be done but not for the faint of heart. Grinn's Bacc 5000+ looks like an option if they come out with a larger one. I don't think the acceleration is a gearing thing. I have it restricted via the CA but I think the motor is a big factor. If I didn't have the ramping in place, I the system is to jerky

I wouldn't go with a big DD as I want it to be a bike and not a motorcycle. I have spent time maintaining the trails around here myself and wouldn't want to be tearing them up. The LR kit in my config will not break loose so no danger there. Not only that but most of the trails around here are a fire road up and constantly on the brakes down. Having an active suspension on the way down is so much better. I cringed every time I landed a smallish jump with the mac.


The rims are nothing special, but not stock. They are actually a little worse for wear due to running too low a pressure and smashing into rocks. 3" tires.

Good luck with the build, whatever you choose!

 

[nutnspecial]

I'm beginning to think that maybe thats the hardest part hah.
Thanks for all the extra info, I totally understand!
I read all day and thought maybe I'd mention the possible benefits of a 3 speed rear hub to that type of setup? With the extra power, some people think you don't need all the gears- I assumed less wear then, and it would hopefully make a difference because each gear is like two that you have now. (should utilize the power better- less twitchy) Those cvt hubs are also pretty cool, and their video mentioned they were for powered bikes too. Just 300$ or so though, but no cassettes!
atm I'm looking at a second drive line on the left via belt from a mid mount brushless. Seems if you give it enough power and get the ratios right, it may be pretty cool. (stock driveline intact and independant, no unsprung, power like a dd.) Or at least enough of all those aspects to make it worth any drawbacks.

Anyway thanks again, and enjoy that bike- being still new to this I still just can't believe how awesome ebikes can be.

 

[t0me]

If there's a IGH or CVT rear end suitable for 1500w + builds that doesn't cost what a Rohloff costs... I wanna know about it too!

 

[nutnspecial]

tOme, here was my thinking

[youtube]4n15N6yS2dE [/youtube]

Nuvinci n1771 is the stronger one if you can find it. @20sec they say it's for mechanical input power too, there's people on here runnin em i think -check that and utube to see if you'd be happy with it.

[youtube]AJmUds2YQ74[/youtube]

Any three speed would be good I thought because every time you would go thru a gear it would be like going thru 2 for you currently, thus power is more spaced out- faster accel & easier on the gears? On my stock setup all the teeth are getting damaging during shifts, so the less shifts the better, and with 5x more power than a human why all the gears anyway. If I was serious about it I'd find some instances of it holding up better than the typical cassettes. This would be the direction I'd look though- the other hub is like 3 times the weight and price.
I didn't check the rolhoffs out because I thought the nuvinci were expensive.

If you want to check out my latest post on my thread- (hopefully it makes sense without the pictures and video I saw to get to that thinking)- but I think that would be a better way than hubs or rc mids. Looking for
'2 cents'

 

[t0me]

I thought you might mean the Nuvinci. I think I found a spec saying they were rated for up to 250w. Only has a grip shift which I don't like but I could live with that. They're about $400 here in Australia (off ebay).
A bit more for the 36H with disk adapter.
The few threads I've found talking about IGH's etc suggest the 3 speeds are ok and putting up with quite a bit of abuse. Same sort of price too. (there's a guy using them in petrol powered mini-choppers apparently).

These little motors definitely seem to be suited to less gears, and like you I'm finding the bike bits are getting worn quickly and are where I'm having trouble getting the power to the wheel (especially in the top gears).

Your other thread? Can you link it please?

 

[nutnspecial]

The 3 speed I think was 150$ or so, and alot lighter. I just click someones name and you can see their builds or posts. Happy to link it though. I will organize alot of the more useful threads and vids and post later to better explain. I am still trying to find a build that gives me as many working points in one place too.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67397
my post from just earlier today is what I was referring to. Hydro mentioned outrunner, and a few people, but they don't seem to have their builds on here so that means more searching for a similar setup that is working.

 

[t0me]

Aha righteo. Yes, can get those Sturmey Archers in 3 speed here for a lot less, but I didn't find anyone who's running them with much power, and back pedal brakes...

 

[nutnspecial]

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=11510

I found this really interesting- midway on page 1 thru page 2 -ggoodrum apparently designed what I'm after. Works on any? igh. They also discuss 3 vs 8speed. Sounds like i'd try a 3 speed nexus with the mid bb setup and 1500w.

The adapter he made eliminates the need for the bb though, which is what I'd prefer- power direct to the wheel.
https://www.google.com/search?sitesearch=endless-sphere.com&q=+nexus%20%20+speed%20%20+break&gws_rd=ssl
plenty of reading material on this site. keywords: nexus 3 speed break.

rear pedal brake and a freewheel??

 

[nutnspecial]

tOme, also this page- http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=57720&start=125
just search page for nexus if you don't want to read all. They mentioned something about a coaster brake with it too- didn't know that was doable.

 

[John Bozi]

Regarding the issues with the 219 chain becoming loose because the kit twists, I took the advice from the main thread and moved the spacer on the down tube bracket to the other side. I also installed a turnbuckle anchored to a cable that will resist any twisting. It hooks into the jackshaft slot an crosses the kit and is anchored to a cable wrapped around the frame. I can also use it to tighten the chain by twisting the kit in the opposite direction. I noticed the same bending of the downtube bracket that I saw in photos on the main thread.

Thanks for your informative thread, I was wondering if you have any pics of the part in bold in particular.

EDIT: that was from page 2 of reading now caught up to page 3 and see it wasn't a success....

 

[givitago]

The cable helped, but it still stretched some. I have left it on, but also added an adjustable brace made out of a U bolt, a bit of angle iron, an M10 bolt with a nylon nut and a bit of steel pipe. I like it adjustable because I want to be able to tighten the chain without messing with all the sheet bolts - that gets time consuming.

I had previously been using a very small, cheap turnbuckle as well for a torque arm, but it was very weak and ended up bending. I couldn't find a bigger one that was short enough. Anyway, turnbuckles are made for tension and not compression, so they are not ideal for anything but the cable.

Here is a pic of my current setup: