LightningRods mid drive kit

[eTrailster]

I purchased a controller from Lyen a few months ago to pair with a new motor. I asked him to provide longer leads so I would have greater flexibility in my connection location choices. I payed him like $50 for this. Everything looked great until I wanted to start wiring it up today. Here is what I found when I removed the sheathing he put over the leads.

Rather than longer leads from the controller, he spliced on additional wires onto the existing leads (I think). This is the exact situation I was trying to avoid in making one or more attachments further from the controller than standard leads would allow. Hell, I could have done that. I would have at least used the quality marine grade splice connectors I have rather than whatever Ed did.

I guess to have expected to get longer wires soldered to the controller board would have been too much to expect? It's the right thing to do. I never even considered the possibility he would do this.

Worst of all, look at all the black wires coming from the controller. These aren't the standard 18? gauge that exited my original controller. These are thinner, 20? gauge I think. They are spliced to thicker standard colored wires.

I would like to know if this is now the new standard for Leyn with thinner gauge black, rather than colored wires coming from his controllers, or did he de-solder the colored wires in order to patch in black ones?

This presents a nightmare for me to rewire. Unfortunately, I have neither the wiring or the soldering skill to rewire the controller from the board as it should be.

Furthermore, when I inevitably have a problem, all the black wiring, and all the splices will make it virtually impossible to ferret out a short.

I am about to write Edward about this, but wanted to ask the opinions of others.

Was I expecting too much? I paid him an extra $50 or so for this. I don't even know how to approach him other than what I said here.

hope this photo pastes.

[img ] http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb13800556/p5pb13800556.jpg [/img]

I just checked and the thinner black wires he used slide easily in and out of the rubber grommets on the controller. I guess I will end up damaging the soldered connection before I even get it wired and mounted.

It seems it will be a waste to even proceed with attempting to use this Frankenstein controller.

 

[spinningmagnets]

It is fair for you to post this, and...kudos for posting the actual picture. I expected better from Edward Lyen, he has done well in the past. I would recommend to future controller customers to specify that you want a single continuous wire of "X" gauge, of the length you specify, from inside the controller to the measured terminal you specify. At that point, the customer and vendor can negotiate the price.

I don't have an issue with adding length to existing wires. I always use a gauge of wire that is one step higher than the wire I am splicing to, and I interlace the strands of the two butt-ends of the mating wires before I solder/dry-crimp them. Amberwolf first suggested this to me, and as the years have gone by, this is the single most important aspect of making a solid butt-end splice [the interlacing of strands].

When making a splice that is out in the weather, use 3:1 "marine grade" heat shrink insulation, whether you solder or dry-crimp.

 

[ElectricGod]

On the subject of big block power...

I run mine at 3500 watts now and it "warms" up to 153F or 76C on warm days. It's just barely breaking a sweat! I have so much torque on my scooter that cars can't accelerate as fast as I can. It's fun to have a car in the next lane looking me over and you can see the driver thinking "I can overtake that wimpy moped and get in front of him so I can get over". HA! FAIL!!! I have to watch it taking off from a dead stop or I'll pick up the front wheel. Usually I'll get low on the scooter and lean forward a little to keep the wheel on the ground. Barely tapping the throttle at low speeds is a ballet between barely moving and the motor jerking the scooter out from under me. I've gotten used to hanging onto the grips tight when I start off or when I hit the throttle hard. There's a bike tunnel I take that goes under a railroad track. The bike ramp going into the tunnel has several tight S turns. I can't take them very fast so I barely hit the throttle (about 1/16" to 1/8" movement) and the motor just launches me forward. These babies do really well under load. Anyway...I'm basically agreeing with what LR said. The big block is insanely strong for its size.

 

[LightningRods]

And you're running single speed that will run 50 mph? Pretty amazing.

 

[ElectricGod]

And you're running single speed that will run 50 mph? Pretty amazing.

Yup and that's at 3.33:1 or 12 tooth driver and 40 tooth wheel sprocket.

 

[ElectricGod]

And you're running single speed that will run 50 mph? Pretty amazing.

Yup and that's at 3.33:1 or 12 tooth driver and 40 tooth wheel sprocket.

BTW...I took my scooter to a long hill nearby and got up to 58mph. That was really interesting on a stand-up scooter! I'm shooting for 60mph on level ground now. I'm running at 82 volts at full charge or 20S LION charged to 4.1 volts per cell. My Kelly controller goes up to 84 volts. It's rated for 160 continuous phase amps, which I'm not close to hitting....yet.

 

[John Bozi]

Not sure how to finish the tops or bottoms really yet. Changing sprocket sizes one day so ..... Shouldn't have cut off the bottom corner, should have just bashed it flat to bridge out to the motor underneath, but this is quite thick about 5mm alu I think so it was getting a bit heavy. Was going to wrap this all the way to the torque arm point but everything gets messy in there with widths.... might still do it. But yeah the more you add both weight and getting to the chain for working on stuff gets more tedious......

The primary side will be next when I find some time....

 

[John Bozi]

does it work? coding of youtube vid seems to be failing for me atleast anyways....

[youtube]PzIBjxMlDuc[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzIBjxMlDuc link works

 

[John Bozi]

Bit of a silence in the back cave, so must be just me with all the reporting.

youtube embedding is down from my end. So links it is. https://youtu.be/eLo_nxhuz24

A while back there was talk of sideways flex of swingarms. I don't think it was ever in the swing arm but in the pivots or links. Someone said they don't know of anyone breaking something due to it.

I have NOT run over 3.5kw for a long time now. Yet I just discovered a massive crack in a link which will puts my interest in high power off the swing arm at rest for good.

It was a great adventure of fun.

I think somewhere in the past I said to Mike that if the something breaks behind the bb from the sideways force I'd be out. And this is it. Even if I could replace it for a few hundred dollars it would be stupidity to use this kit at what feels like quarter power.

Lessons learnt.

I feel I have done my bit for the community now and shared all the fails that are possible.

 

[litespeed]

That sucks! I'm thinking custom frame for high power with a wider pivot point to handle forces better.

Anyway sucks for you, feel for you.

Tom

 

[Remus]

Hi Guy's.
I'm looking to mount the kit onto a replacement bike, as I've sold the Kona Coiler I had.
I'm going to be going with a much simpler bike, something like this : http://images.allbids.com.au/photos/act/12231/12231-2.jpg

I've contacted a seller of a Raleigh Mojave 1.0 in my size, and they gave me a frame BB measurement of 68mm.
Is there a way to mount the LR BB to this bike with standard issue brackets or spacers or something ?

Thanks.

 

[LightningRods]

There is a standard bracket to mount the Big Block to a 68mm BB. I have everything in stock.

 

[Remus]

I have the small block, and I'd be interested in using the non adjustable bb mounting bracket.

 

[LightningRods]

I don't sell the adjustable lower bracket any longer. The 68mm small block is the most basic layout. Also in stock.

Here are the lower brackets I offer, all solid brackets meant to work with the spring loading DH roller for the secondary chain.

68mm BB: Standard length, +50mm length, Stretch (+90mm length)
73mm BB: Standard length, +50mm length, Stretch (+90mm length)
83mm BB: Standard length, +50mm length, Stretch (+90mm length)
100mm BB: Standard length, +50mm length

All of these BB side brackets fit both the small block and big block motor brackets.

 

[ElectricGod]

Bit of a silence in the back cave, so must be just me with all the reporting.

youtube embedding is down from my end. So links it is. https://youtu.be/eLo_nxhuz24

A while back there was talk of sideways flex of swingarms. I don't think it was ever in the swing arm but in the pivots or links. Someone said they don't know of anyone breaking something due to it.

I have NOT run over 3.5kw for a long time now. Yet I just discovered a massive crack in a link which will puts my interest in high power off the swing arm at rest for good.

It was a great adventure of fun.

I think somewhere in the past I said to Mike that if the something breaks behind the bb from the sideways force I'd be out. And this is it. Even if I could replace it for a few hundred dollars it would be stupidity to use this kit at what feels like quarter power.

Lessons learnt.

I feel I have done my bit for the community now and shared all the fails that are possible.

This isn't really surprising. Bike frames running this much power. You didn't really think that everything would last forever and that nothing would break?

 

[recumpence]

It is not power that did this, it is torque. If huge power is being run at low RPM (I.E. crank drive) torque goes way up.

This is also rare.

 

[Remus]

I don't sell the adjustable lower bracket any longer. The 68mm small block is the most basic layout. Also in stock.

Here are the lower brackets I offer, all solid brackets meant to work with the spring loading DH roller for the secondary chain.

68mm BB: Standard length, +50mm length, Stretch (+90mm length)
73mm BB: Standard length, +50mm length, Stretch (+90mm length)
83mm BB: Standard length, +50mm length, Stretch (+90mm length)
100mm BB: Standard length, +50mm length

All of these BB side brackets fit both the small block and big block motor brackets.

Thanks,
I think I'll have to find myself a bike before ordering a BB Mounting Bracket, I'm finding a lot of variation in the BB width's.
Will my standard BB axle will fit all these width's ?

 

[LightningRods]

The kit comes with a replacement ISIS bottom bracket. I have those in the following sizes:

68mm/148mm
73mm/148mm
83mm/148mm
100mm/178mm

You do need to find a bike with a standard thread-in bottom bracket. The press fit BBs require an adapter tube and complicate things unnecessarily.

 

[ElectricGod]

The kit comes with a replacement ISIS bottom bracket. I have those in the following sizes:

68mm/148mm
73mm/148mm
83mm/148mm
100mm/178mm

You do need to find a bike with a standard thread-in bottom bracket. The press fit BBs require an adapter tube and complicate things unnecessarily.

Aren't the press fit BBs usually on cheap bikes? If you want to run these kits, get a tough bike frame. That will cost more $$, but it's worth it. Cheap bike frames break way too easy. And tough bike frames break way less. You will be stressing the frame no matter what...so make it a good frame!

 

[ElectricGod]

It is not power that did this, it is torque. If huge power is being run at low RPM (I.E. crank drive) torque goes way up.

This is also rare.

Yes...same difference.

 

[LightningRods]

Unfortunately no, the press fits are usually on nicer bikes. There is no real advantage to them and a number of disadvantages. I hope they die soon.

Torque, horsepower, watts, power, work. I've read the descriptions of all of them over and over. They're the same- but different.

 

[recumpence]

Unfortunately no, the press fits are usually on nicer bikes. There is no real advantage to them and a number of disadvantages. I hope they die soon.

Torque, horsepower, watts, power, work. I've read the descriptions of all of them over and over. They're the same- but different.

power is completed work or Torque X speed. Torque is static pressure. Many watts can be applied through a given system while minimizing torque. Torque is static pressure specifically. Typically, torque is where the problems lie not watts.

 

[LightningRods]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to torque as a problem before. I certainly don't consider it a problem. Bring the torque!

I've owned both a Honda S2000 and a Mustang with a 460 Ford V8 in it. The Mustang made about 50% more horsepower and 100% more torque. It made those numbers at about 1/2 the rpm. It made more torque at 1500 rpm than the Honda made at it's peak. Some people enjoy screeching a motor at 8,000 or 10,000 rpm. I prefer the relaxed, effortless acceleration that torque gives you. I built the Mustang driveline to handle the torque and it was nothing but fun every day. Fun and really shitty gas mileage, but that's internal combustion for you.

 

[recumpence]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to torque as a problem before. I certainly don't consider it a problem. Bring the torque!

I've owned both a Honda S2000 and a Mustang with a 460 Ford V8 in it. The Mustang made about 50% more horsepower and 100% more torque. It made those numbers at about 1/2 the rpm. It made more torque at 1500 rpm than the Honda made at it's peak. Some people enjoy screeching a motor at 8,000 or 10,000 rpm. I prefer the relaxed, effortless acceleration that torque gives you. I built the Mustang driveline to handle the torque and it was nothing but fun every day. Fun and really shitty gas mileage, but that's internal combustion for you.

I was referring to the broken suspension link caused not by power (watts) but by chain pulling tension (torque).

 

[LightningRods]

I think that torque makes everything happen, both good and bad. Take torque out of the equation for horsepower, watts or work and what's left?

I agree that torque breaks inadequate driveline parts. Without exception I say make the driveline better.