MAC-BMC and Transmagnetics motor efficiency testing

[mrbill]

Hi Mrbill,

THX for the information, if I need 1200 watts under load is better to use (2) motor at 650 Watts at 24 Volt (30 volt nominal). I like to build something like the Conway ebike but I didn't have any experiences with the Cyclone motor.

My ides is to use a 3 speed nexus hub for top speed of around 60-70 Km/h do you think that I can do that with theses 2 motors at 30 Volt nominal because I want a reliable set up and something that can last for years.

Thank you, good day!
Black Arrow

The Cyclone/Headline motor with the gearbox is a decent motor for use up to about 1 hp (750 watts) of reliable output. You could use two of them (and two controllers) to increase output, but why not put together a simpler system using a single 1.5kw motor? The "600w" BMC or "Powerpack" motor may handle this--I don't have road experience running this motor at the 48 volts that would be required. I do know that the "600w" BMC motor gets hot on the bench when pushing out 1.5kw.

 

[boostjuice]

Thats fine, but in any case i had to differentiate between that type of Cyclone/Headline motor (with attached planetary gearbox) from the larger one (no planetary gearbox) :wink:

Boostjuice a (2) stage reduction drive is the key to use those (2) motors without their planetary gear box in mind, please tell me if i'm wrong. This way both motor are shorter in length and can easily fit between crank, and with both motor i can output more power than i single 1500 Watts (larger one) motor is able to do right ?

Good day!
Black Arrow

Yes, with the gearbox removed these motors have much more favourable dimensions for transverse mounting between the cranks.This is what I'm doing myself for my second build (but with a single motor, unlike you) powered by 8S lipo/@ 29.6V .

1st stage = #25 11T > 70T (Yes it will be noisy, I don't care)
2nd stage = Bicycle chain 13T BMX Odyessy freewheel > 55T (chain-ring adapted and mounted parallel and on same axis via custom adapter to a 23T 3-prong input sprocket coupled to input of Alfine 11 speed hub (parallel drive setup))
Total reduction to rear wheel = 26.92 : 1

Freewheel cranks are still needed of course. For pedal assist I will be using a 39T pedal chain-ring > 23T 3-prong input sprocket into the IGH.
Top speed will be only ~30Kph but that's ok for me as this build is for off road single track MTBing, and so I need LOOOW gearing for HIIIIGH torque for steep ascents. Downhill speeds are also limited to <30kph due to rough terrain and continuous turns.

So... when Pedal cadence = 60 RPM, motor speed = 2738 RPM

Alfine 11 gear ratios---- @ 60 RPM pedal cadence, Wheel speed = 102 RPM, Motor speed = 2738 RPM
1- 0.527------------------6.7 kph
2- 0.681------------------8.6 kph
3- 0.77-------------------9.8 kph
4- 0.878------------------11.1 kph
5- 0.995------------------12.6 kph
6- 1.134------------------14.4 kph
7- 1.292------------------16.4 kph
8- 1.462------------------18.6 kph
9- 1.667------------------21.2 kph
10- 1.888-----------------24 kph
11- 2.153-----------------27.34 kph

So mrbill is probably wondering how i will attach my 11T #25 sprocket to the toothed/splined motor shaft? Well its not easy if you want to conserve the teeth (broached sprocket ID- can even be done with a file if your patient), but if your willing to modify the shaft with a grinder, then getting an 8mm D bore sprocket on is no problem.

 

[Ariane]

The Cyclone/Headline motor with the gearbox is a decent motor for use up to about 1 hp (750 watts) of reliable output. You could use two of them (and two controllers) to increase output, but why not put together a simpler system using a single 1.5kw motor? The "600w" BMC or "Powerpack" motor may handle this--I don't have road experience running this motor at the 48 volts that would be required. I do know that the "600w" BMC motor gets hot on the bench when pushing out 1.5kw.

Mr Bill,

Of course a single 600 Watts motors (BMC) is a simpler system but in the mean time I'm not asking too much from it and stressing it? For me is about the same thing as pushing the 650 Watts cyclone/headline at 1200 Watts on 48 Volt, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

I really appreciated your help and experience because I didn't have any kind of experience with those motors and I just want to find the right fit for this future ebike.

Thank you, good day!
Black Arrow

 

[Ariane]

Hi boostjuice,

Wow an Ascent ebike to climb any moutain :wink: 8) But why this one over 3,5,7 8 and other speed hub ? This one is able to get more stress under load with electric motor ?


Thank you, good day!
Black Arrow

 

[sackspeed]

You see this site?

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-E.htm

I try it. You can order it for 155$ + 77,5$ shipping = 232$ without controller. That´s very expensive!!!

In Germany we have this one. Perhaps I try it some time.

http://de.nanotec.com/downloads/pdf/2275/DB87L01-S.pdf

 

[Ariane]

You see this site?

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-E.htm

I try it. You can order only 2 + 100$ shipping. That´s very expensive!!!

Yes i don't knwo why is the same thing, when try to order a Conhismotor (hub) the price is great but shipping and handling are too expensive for nothing :x

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[boostjuice]

You see this site?

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-E.htm

I try it. You can order it for 155$ + 77,5$ shipping = 232$ without controller. That´s very expensive!!!

In Germany we have this one. Perhaps I try it some time.

http://de.nanotec.com/downloads/pdf/2275/DB87L01-S.pdf

That's a nice looking motor that is well adaptable to an ebike, but at a price of $290USD (206.90 €) for the motor alone, The Cyclone/Headline motor is still cheaper with delivery included :wink:

http://en.nanotec.com/servomotor_db87.html

 

[boostjuice]

Hi boostjuice,

Wow an Ascent ebike to climb any moutain :wink: 8) But why this one over 3,5,7 8 and other speed hub ? This one is able to get more stress under load with electric motor ?


Thank you, good day!
Black Arrow

The 11 speed should be no weaker than the 8spd Alfine, but we wont know for sure till its released (Its due out this month). Sure, the motor doesn't need all those close ratio gears, but my legs certainly do :wink:. I do like to pedal at a comfortable cadence across varying terrain The other byproduct of importance with IGHs is the trend that the more gears they have, the more gear range they have. Gear range is definitely something the motor needs more than close ratios. (Nexus 3spd = 186%, SRAM spectro P5 Cargo 5spd = 224%, Alfine 8spd = 307%, Alfine 11spd = 409%, Rohloff 14spd = 526%)

 

[jmygann]

why not put together a simpler system using a single 1.5kw motor? The "600w" BMC or "Powerpack" motor may handle this--I don't have road experience running this motor at the 48 volts that would be required. I do know that the "600w" BMC motor gets hot on the bench when pushing out 1.5kw.

i would agree with the single motor at 1.5Kw

 

[sackspeed]

boostjuice wrote:
That's a nice looking motor that is well adaptable to an ebike, but at a price of $290USD (206.90 €) for the motor alone, The Cyclone/Headline motor is still cheaper with delivery included.

That´s right. But this is a "big" motor with about 750 W nominal. Peak should be 2 KW. And it´s nominal for 48V use. The big cyclone costs 338$ with controller I don`t need.
I´m not sure if the costs from Cyclone includes all. Mostly I payed some tax and about 20 EUR more.
But I hope I catch one at ebay some day.

 

[Ariane]

Hi Guys,

I just by curiosity why not 1000 Watts MY1020 (Brush motor) by Unite unit this motor has more power than as single 600 Watts motor no?

Or may be (2) of theses ?

http://www.thesuperkids.com/10wabmcbrbim.html




Good day!
Black Arrow