Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

[methods]

You are not.
Bona fide Space Monkey you are.

-methods

 

[Arlo1]

Yeh I just got back from scaring people who are driving their cars! Man I like my power switch. People piss me off when I am cruzing at the legal speed of 32 without peddling then click I pull a sweet little power wheely and I'm gone. Had some cars being jerks and trying to squish me off the road today So click then I am pulling 65 up the hill and they don't have enough power to catch me. Then later I slowed down again in a school zone and they were not sure of me so they drove all the way on the other side of the road!
Just saying I am happy I got my kit before it was all over. What happened to the crystalyte controllers? You blow them up they all take a crap?
Not to get your hopes up but I have a few very welthy guys who need to see my finished product who might need some 18 fet controllers. Kind of thing that money should not matter and you can make a profit!

 

[methods]

All the last of the stuff is gone.
Big dog buyer snatched everything up

I only managed to save one set of accessories for John who sent me a check like 9 months ago.

There were one or two other people who wanted accessories and had a deal set up prior to the deadline.
I am going to try to hit up an aftermarket source for those people - may cost them an extra $10 since I have to pay dealer price instead of retail.

I think there are only 1 - maybe 2 people who have a valid claim to controllers. After that I will take stock and see where we are at.

-methods

 

[Arlo1]

Sooo........ Uh how much smoke is to much and how hot is to hot on an x5? I mesured with a lazer temp gun when I got home and through one of my coverholes I am at 180 deg C and enough smoke to leave it out side! Still works but for how long. Damb just need more cooling!

Edit: So yeh after another look it seems I messed it up I went to power it up and free wheel it and it sounds sick like it is fighting it self. I am betting the hot glue you found it yours methods is in mine and let 2 wires touch!

 

[methods]

Nah - at 180C you probably shorted the windings out. Hot glue melted 100C ago...
Just turn the motor. If it is hard as hell to turn you are done
Be glad that you did not take your controller out with it.

I dont know what popped off on mine last time - I have not even looked - and I dont really care.
But come on.... Both you and I knew that you were going to blow that motor :wink:

I have been waiting for someone to blow a motor with my controller.
Just as well it was a 5304.... Like when the drug dealers gauge how good their dope is by how many fiends end up dead

-methods

P.S. If it turns easy by hand but still runs like crap under power you may have gotten lucky. Check the hall sensors. If it turns hard by hand, start shopping.

 

[Arlo1]

I think I am even luckier than that. Although the windings are rather dark lol. Looks like a phase wire shorted in the axle.
I realy need better cooling. What about water injection we use it on turbo cars and at 100+C it will just turn to steam and leave the wheel! So how hot is to hot anyway? lol Man I like it One day my whole bike will be a puddle of melted metal but until then I will keep scaring cars and little children!

 

[Arlo1]

How do you test that hall sensors? I should check on them incase I need them too. I am looking at the x5303 and x5305 too man the x5303 would give me a huge top speed! I realy think some sort of cooling would be the cure for the x5 they seem to be a great motor but you can only push them for a short while. If you could simply get it to cool off and stay cool it would help alot. But once its heat soaked you loose power then without knowing you push the throtle further and heat it up even more! I want this performance and I want it relibly so I will be working on this for a while!

 

[methods]

None of this is new friend....
There are huge threads on cooling the X5. Search for "Cooling my X5"

I already listed the acceptable temperature range in either this thread or the sale thread.
165C is the absolute max you should let it get.
135C is a reasonable "hot" target.

You just may have gotten very lucky.

Test the hall sensors? there are many ways.
Easiest for you will probably just be to try it out.
If you have a meter then you can plug the controller hall lead in (to power the halls) then monitor each of the three hall lines with reference to ground.
If you move a magnet back and forth in front of the halls you should see the voltage toggle.

I built a testing board for mine that just plugs right inline with the hall sensors. You can search on that too. It can take power from the controller or from a battery.
Has 3 LED's and they light up as the halls toggle.

Those windings are looking toasted. Ask Steveo to send you a before picture

-methods

 

[ZapPat]

Arlo, I hope it's only your input wires and not the windings shorted. What kind of wires (size + insulation material) are used in the X5's axle?

I hope you can fix it and continue to scare cars and kids!

Methods - I'm happy that you found a 'big dog buyer' to liquidate your excess stuff quick. I was a bit concerned about your problems with the last controllers you put together, I know how much work it is and it *really* sucks when the thing doesn't work after all that moding. It's even worse when you are doing it for others and want to recuperate your time and money...

 

[Arlo1]

Before I even ran it I took it apart and ported the covers more. But when steveo sent it to me it was darkened but now its alot darker lol. He did have a probe in it already but it had a short right off the bat so I never got to use the meat thermometer! I'm not afraid just can't let the girfriend know I am about to spend another 500 on this thing! I will be serching x5 cooling. Thanks guys. I do have to figure out the other half of the short though but I am still confident I can get some time on this motor before the SPARKS REALY FLY :lol: FIY I was ripping up and down a hill in front of a friends house and he was like "my truck can't even climb that hill that fast" then I ripped home and at the end of the ride I was full throttle down a long hill for about 4 minutes then regen to slow at the bottom then full speed up another for about 30 seconds then meesed around to try to get good at wheelies then up another hill to the house!

 

[liveforphysics]

Right on Arlo!

Its good to see another person giving the controller a proper thrashing, and the controller comming out un-harmed.

You will likely join Methods soon as the 2nd person to have burned up a X5 on this forum. it will be a proud day

 

[liveforphysics]

Hum ... and both guys I have burn an X5 with cooling hole on both side of the hub motor :?, I'm actually thinking to use the X6 from Markcycle to put on my next ebike project :lol:

Good day!
Bikeraider

Congrats Bikeraider! I didn't know you had also burned one up. That puts you in a elite club

 

[Arlo1]

Right on Arlo!

Its good to see another person giving the controller a proper thrashing, and the controller comming out un-harmed.

You will likely join Methods soon as the 2nd person to have burned up a X5 on this forum. it will be a proud day

Yeh but I don't want to be #2 Maybe i could be the first to fry an x6 :lol: It realy is to bad I like the x5.

And Bikeraider I would not worry about it to much just keep the temps down! It is amps that kill these things not the volts!
I am a heavy guy with a back pack on climbing long hills at 150+ amps continious and spiking >300amps, thats alot of heat for the motor to get rid of!

 

[gasfreeearth]

Maybe i could be the first to fry an x6

Now that would be something

Hum ... and both guys I have burn an X5 with cooling hole on both side of the hub motor , I'm actually thinking to use the X6 from Markcycle to put on my next ebike project

Good day!
Bikeraider

Have you or anyone figured out how to mount a freewheel to the 65mm axle of Marks motor? I have been thinking about this too, but this part has got me stuck. I actually wanted to use the x6 with Methods controller, but because of this went with the 5304 which turned into the 5303. Unfortunately I do want pedals on the bike so mounting a freewheel setup on the x6 would be necessary.

Thanks,

Terry

 

[Arlo1]

Have you or anyone figured out how to mount a freewheel to the 65mm axle of Marks motor? I have been thinking about this too, but this part has got me stuck. I actually wanted to use the x6 with Methods controller, but because of this went with the 5304 which turned into the 5303. Unfortunately I do want pedals on the bike so mounting a freewheel setup on the x6 would be necessary.

Thanks,

Terry

Thats about where I am at with all of this. But I love building things and no Methods not in the getofabulious way you think I meen. So I am working on both options right now.

 

[methods]

New Crystalyte website with discounted prices

Rear Disk 5305 hub only $367.99

-methods

 

[methods]

Ha Busters!

I fixed the controller that got toasted when my last X5 went.
It shorted the three positive A phase fets

Popped 3 out
Popped 3 in
100% Gangster

Ah....

I think it is time to let this business crap go for a while and do a good ol' fashioned build thread.
(AS IN BIKE BUILD THREAD - NOT CONTROLLER BUILD THREAD )

-methods

 

[methods]

You want a powerful controller?
How about one that spins the stator right off the axle?

Being the big dog sucks.....

-methods

 

[will_newton]

I'm having some issues. I've got the software running, the test .asv loaded and dongle installed. The USB dongle installed onto COM4, but as Methods posted I changed the USB dongle to COM 1 in the device manager.I don't know if I am not plugging things in in the correct order or what, but I can't get the program to load onto the ESC.
I have tried this order of startup:
1. load software- push "start transmit" button - connect USB to computer-connect USB to ESC
2. load software- connect USB to computer - push "start transmit" button - connect USB to ESC
3. load software- connect USB to ESC - connect USB to computer - push "start transmit" button
4. load software- connect USB to ESC - push "start transmit" button - connect USB to computer
etc.

I keep getting COM closed or COM in use, depending on how I do it. What am I doing wrong?

CANT RECOGNIZE PORT

* Go into Device Manager and look in the com port section. Look for the USB device. Make sure it has a com number of 5 or less. You can manually assign com numbers by going into the advanced properties and manually setting the com port to a lower number. Com's 1 and 2 are usually open. These were reserved on older computers for things like parallel ports that no longer exist on new computers. Use one of those. You may have to take something that is on 1-5, change it to 6 or 7, then change your USB dongle to one of those lower numbers.

* Make sure the USB dongle has lights on and is actually plugged into a USB port and not your network port or some other hole on the computer Don't laugh - happens all the time. Guys will put the dongle into any hole where it will fit.



EVERYTHING IS RUNNING - JUST WONT PROGRAM

* The controller must be powered off for this entire sequence.

* You must have the software running (i.e. pressed start) before plugging into the controller. This is because the controller only accepts a firmware update right at powerup. After that the controller multiplexes the programming pins out to other functions. So - if your controller is powered or the USB is plugged in before you hit program the microcontroller inside will be ignoring the programming ports. You must apply power to the controller 5V buss (via the USB) at the same moment you attempt to program. Dont worry - it is repeatable and reliable.

* If you get a message that says that the download FAILED then what is happening is the peripheral devices on your controller are sucking more current than your little USB dongle can source. Please disconnect a few items like the throttle, ebrake, cruise control, 3spd switch, etc. All those devices draw power from the +5V buss

 

[SpeedEBikes]

You need the dongle attached to the usb cable plugged into the computer. The dongle should appear in the device manager and you should be able see/set what comm port it uses. Fire up the software and set it to the right comm port. Load the asv file, set the parameters and start the upload. Then connect the controller to the dongle. Be careful at this stage to insert the connector appropriately. Since it isn't keyed one can easily insert it upside down or offset. I don' know that catastrophe would ensue if connected wrong, but wouldn't rule out the possibility.

Anyway, once you make this connection, the upload should proceed practically instantly. If for some reason it doesn't, start over.

It took me a while to get this working because I wanted to plug the dongle into the controller first and leave it connected as it's the dodgiest connection to make, but alas it needs to be made last.

Good luck!

 

[will_newton]

It worked, thanks! The secret is getting the connector turned correctly. I had the ESC plug turned correctly and the USB dongle upside down. DOH!



Onward! Here's me thread on the build http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14432

 

[methods]

Since it isn't keyed one can easily insert it upside down or offset. I don' know that catastrophe would ensue if connected wrong, but wouldn't rule out the possibility.

Thanks for helping him out.

On a subset of the controllers I glued a "bump" on the top of the 4p connector to stop people from inserting it upside down but this would not stop people from installing it offset. Something to correct for V2. I am going to move away from those dongles anyway since they require modification to work. (note the current limiting resistor inline with the power)

-methods

 

[will_newton]

Hey Methods, I'm reading the 18 fet infineon thread now and hit up the tech. ref. forum to tease out the details on how to run the programming software. It's a bit funky.

I am thinking of using your DC30AC80_65ADC.asv as a template, but with voltage set for 17S lipo. I have a problem getting a 3.2 v/cell cutoff, which using your conversion info from page one should be 45v, but I can only choose 42.5v or 51.5v, nothing in between.

I am looking for an E-bike Lab walkthrough that tells what each field means, all the info seems to be spread everywhere.

 

[methods]

Hey Methods, I'm reading the 18 fet infineon thread now and hit up the tech. ref. forum to tease out the details on how to run the programming software. It's a bit funky.

I am thinking of using your DC30AC80_65ADC.asv as a template, but with voltage set for 17S lipo. I have a problem getting a 3.2 v/cell cutoff, which using your conversion info from page one should be 45v, but I can only choose 42.5v or 51.5v, nothing in between.

I would use the xlyte example then use the current settings from the above asv
That DC30A was set up for the older Infineons so I did not address all the settings.

As far as LVC goes... You really need to do cell level LVC - otherwise just set the LVC arbitrary higher than the actual LVC
The last few volts are pointless anyway.... I would not even take my pack into that zone.

I am looking for an E-bike Lab walk-through that tells what each field means, all the info seems to be spread everywhere.

Geoff did this in the tech reference area for the older software - there are only a few parts missing
Maybe after I drink my coffee I will make a little picture and post it here.

-methods

 

[methods]

After people leave feedback and correct this list I will put it in the TechRef area.
Dont be shy - I am not saying that there are not mistakes in this list.
If you know better please speak up.



OpenRoot The path of the starter *.asv file

StoreRoot The path of the *.asv where you have saved your settings

Comm Num The Com port number. You can manually enter numbers here.

Transmit Gauge This will shoot over with blue bards when you successfully flash the controller.

White Window There is where the current state of the software will be displayed along with history.

Board Type Choose your controller - 6 fet, 9 fet, 12 fet, 18 fet

PhaseDegree This refers to your hall signals. Most are 120 degree. Compatible works for both.
0 - 120 Degree
1 - 60 Degree
2 - Compatible
(Question) I wonder if it will respond better/faster when set to 0 instead of 2 ??? Test?

PhaseCurrent Phase current limit. Read up to understand. Keep the ratio to RatedCurrent.
!! Dependent on the shunt value and Board Type selected !!

RatedCurrent DC current limit. This is the current limit you will see on your CA.
!! Dependent on the shunt value and Board Type selected !!

HaltVoltage LVC Cutoff
!! Dependent on the R12 voltage divider !!

Tolerance Delta V - the number of volts you must rise over LVC to resume (hysteresis)

EBSLimVoltage The max regen voltage
!! Dependent on the R12 voltage divider !!

BlockTime(s) Current limit overshoot - higher values will let you overshoot more. Current limit Damping.

AutoCruisingTime(s) The length of time needed to lock in Cruise Control

SlipChargeMode Dont know - I set it to fake

EBS Level Strength of regen

LimitSpeed Global speed limit

SpeedMode Controls behavior of speed switch
0: Switch mode allows you to change speed on the fly
1: Cycle mode latches the value at power on

Speed 1 The low speed setting

Speed 2 The high speed setting

Speed 3 The mid speed setting

IndicateMode ??? Dont know

ConverseSpeed Reverse speed setting

Guard Level Something about the built in bike alarm

Bar Protect Dont know

1:1 Design Dont know

P3 Design Dont know

-methods

EDIT LIST: none so far