New Crystalyte 5403 Review by Doc

[gensem]

260c what nice friend you have... Hum?
You are probably right about silicone wires under extreme conditions... Btw do you know where to buy colored ones?

 

[Doctorbass]

260c what nice friend you have... Hum?
You are probably right about silicone wires under extreme conditions... Btw do you know where to buy colored ones?

I know Lyen had some on his controller.. i buy mine at hobbyking but all the same color.. I just use Y G B color for the anderson connector.

 

[Floont]

.

 

[cassschr1]

I think Doc knows him and he's being sarcastic for fun.

 

[Floont]

I think Doc knows him and he's being sarcastic for fun.

Thanks!!!
I deleted my post.

 

[Doctorbass]

I think Doc knows him and he's being sarcastic for fun.

Ugh?.. hmm i was sarcastic without knowing i was :lol: sorry for any confusion.. I just meant that Lyen could be a source for tehse silicone colored wire... nothing else guys :wink:

Doc

 

[cassschr1]

I meant hydro-one.

 

[oatnet]

Has anyone gotten a 54xx with the axle for 150mm dropouts? I'm curious to see how that sorted out.

-JD

Edit: Hey, this is my 2000th post! After 5 years here!

Heck, I've seen some people rack up 2000 posts in a few months, then freely and widely offer advice, even though they haven't gotten their first ebike rolling yet. :lol: Just goes to show post count is not a good measure of experience and content contributed.

-JD

 

[Doctorbass]

Has anyone gotten a 54xx with the axle for 150mm dropouts? I'm curious to see how that sorted out.

-JD

Edit: Hey, this is my 2000th post! After 5 years here!

Heck, I've seen some people rack up 2000 posts in a few months, then freely and widely offer advice, even though they haven't gotten their first ebike rolling yet. :lol: Just goes to show post count is not a good measure of experience and content contributed.

-JD

I think i will need to use a single speed 14 tooth gear. i'll see.

 

[sabb]

Oatnet

The shaft is the same and we all got spacers to fit to a 150mm dropout

Stephen

 

[Doctorbass]

Has anyone gotten a 54xx with the axle for 150mm dropouts? I'm curious to see how that sorted out.

-JD

Edit: Hey, this is my 2000th post! After 5 years here!

Heck, I've seen some people rack up 2000 posts in a few months, then freely and widely offer advice, even though they haven't gotten their first ebike rolling yet. :lol: Just goes to show post count is not a good measure of experience and content contributed.

-JD

congrat for your 2000th post Oatnet :wink:

 

[itchynackers]

Oatnet

The shaft is the same and we all got spacers to fit to a 150mm dropout

Stephen

uh...my spacers don't even get to outside the wires, or the freewheel. I'm fabricating some c-washers for the wire side, and ordering some spacers for the freewheel side.

 

[Doctorbass]

There is a mod that i think i will do on the rotor.

The very first version of the 5400 motor i saw came from Lowracer that posted some pics in 2011.

But for an unknown reason, the motor we are getting recently are alot wider.

To make it fit on all other actual ebikes i have i need to make some surgery to it 8)

Here is how i'm figuring out how to acheive that:

Doc

 

[John in CR]

Hey Doc, are you thinking about mashing the end copper down flat like Xlyte did on the old X5's? You could probably pick up another 5mm on each side.

Also, how easy is it to machine the axle, since whatever you cut off of the rotor ring the bearing will need to move toward the center by the same amount? Other than a bit of work on a soft 9C axle I've never worked on a hubbie axle, and I've really wanted to on a number of occasions.

 

[Doctorbass]

Hey Doc, are you thinking about mashing the end copper down flat like Xlyte did on the old X5's? You could probably pick up another 5mm on each side.

Also, how easy is it to machine the axle, since whatever you cut off of the rotor ring the bearing will need to move toward the center by the same amount? Other than a bit of work on a soft 9C axle I've never worked on a hubbie axle, and I've really wanted to on a number of occasions.

John, I would not risk to create short circuit in the winding by mashing end copper... it might turn disastrous. On the opposite i thought that that this end copper is probably heating more than any other copper part of the stator so compressing it to make it more dense ...

But i still have around 5mm that i can remove on each side from the rotor ring and as well i will need to machine the axel as well.. we'll see...

I wold love having my past job where a part of my job was making mechanical part for optical desing in a THz spectroscopy laboratory at Sherbrooke univercity... I had acces to a lathe, a 3 axis cnc, etc.... Now my new job have 10 time more equipment but i can not have acces to them... ( believe me i tried!)

Doc

 

[Deutch420]

Took my 5403 out today. Pretty fast, very quiet. 100v 80 amps = 58mph.
I went out for a 2 mile wot blast down the road, then back. Averaged 58mph. Consumed 400watt hours in this blast. Hub wasn't even slightly warm. Almost ambient (60f).
I'm looking for faster than 60mph so I'll he buying a 24fet 4115 32s4p.
Here is a video I took. Its a really lame, unedited vid. I dont have any torque arms installed for the vid so i was taking it easy. Machinest almost done making my dropouts/torque arms. When hes done I will have something worth watching posted up. But for those that are curious....vid is lame, go pro was aimed too high, I talked too much, i couldnt blast the throttle bc no torque arms installed yet etc....

*Running no torque arms or beefed up dropouts is dumb. Its not advised at all.* Im just too impatient to look at the hub and not know what it can do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxyVRkYkt2o&feature=share&list=UUg__xec4_fXjdQttUYRcMnA

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

10kW into aluminum dropouts? Nice.

The motor sounds really quiet. Do you have any closer pics of how the wires are routed? I'm not that happy with how the wires exit the hub on mine, the plastic ring is prone to spinning and cutting the wires. I suppose if you had thin dropouts, it would be an issue, but my dropouts are supposed to be 5/8" of steel, so I might be OK.

 

[Andje]

well that is interesting; on a 26 inch rim and 100v80amps I also get about 58mph exactly out of my 5304.

 

[Deutch420]

10kW into aluminum dropouts? Nice.

The motor sounds really quiet. Do you have any closer pics of how the wires are routed? I'm not that happy with how the wires exit the hub on mine, the plastic ring is prone to spinning and cutting the wires. I suppose if you had thin dropouts, it would be an issue, but my dropouts are supposed to be 5/8" of steel, so I might be OK.

I removed the plastic piece. The black spacers provided must be used. The dropouts on your bike will squeeze the hub without them and it will not spin. At the same time, they provide a ton of extra space for your wires to exit out the bottom. You must use the Skinner of the 2 black washers on the wire side. The thicker one doesn't clear the wires. For, my application (135mm) I had to remove .150 from both spacers as to not stretch the bike.
I'm not sure what piece of plastic your reffing to when u say its "prone to spinning". If your talking about the white piece of plastic in my pic than were all screwed, or yours is faulty. The white piece in my pic is 100% fixed and doesn't spin. If it did, it doesn't matter where or how u run ur wires, they will be cut. My piece however, doesn't move at all.
Ideally, replacing the black spacers with "C" spacers as some have suggested would be your best bet. That would give he most room for the wires to exit.

Pic taken from the floor, looking up under the dropout.


Tons of room. I can't stress that the black washers must be used or ur hub won't spin. On a 135mm dropout, the washers need to be cut in about 1/2 to not space out your dropouts past 140mm. I removed .150 from both of mine.

Need more pics? Just ask

 

[Deutch420]

well that is interesting; on a 26 inch rim and 100v80amps I also get about 58mph exactly out of my 5304.

I'm 52mph on flat ground with no wind on my 5304 @ 100v 80amps. About 700 miles on that setup. I have no idea how your seeing 58mph out of a 5304 100v flat ground. Are you sure you didn't mean 5303? Or maybe I have a bumm 5304? My numbers seem to match others..? Looks like I'm going to be forced to downgrade back to my 5304..

 

[Deutch420]

Also, I wish everyone the best luck with their axle threads. Mine peeled off like onion rings. Weird part is the threads on the bottom of the axle are fine. The threads on the top of the axel are for the most part all gone. Hub is un-usable now as i cannot tighten the axel bolts. Hope I got a bad axle and this isn't the case for everyone. If i was careless and accidently cross threaded the axle, than the top and bottom would be ruined which is not the case. Machinest is going to have to remove some material, add weld, then re- thread it. If that doesn't work I'll need a new axle. Woot. I hope this isn't the case for everyone..

 

[Doctorbass]

Great results!

Respect to you!.. You use a GPS + the cycle analyst! in both directions :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: wich is 100% credible!

BUt i still have a cons: thje aliminum dropout at 8kW!! ... the throttle hamering or not it make no difference!.. to sustain 58mph you need power wich mean TORQUE and speed.. and toruqe is what make the dropout to break!

I hope you will correct that and give the right exemple to everyone else that will see this video and want to make one.. and that might doubt the importance of a strong dropout since you showed a video where it doesn't break

I dont understand the 58mph of Anji with the 5304.... very curious... maybe on hill ?

Doc

 

[zombiess]

well that is interesting; on a 26 inch rim and 100v80amps I also get about 58mph exactly out of my 5304.

I'm 52mph on flat ground with no wind on my 5304 @ 100v 80amps. About 700 miles on that setup. I have no idea how your seeing 58mph out of a 5304 100v flat ground. Are you sure you didn't mean 5303? Or maybe I have a bumm 5304? My numbers seem to match others..? Looks like I'm going to be forced to downgrade back to my 5304..

Your 52 MPH numbers are spot on for a 5304 at 100V running 80A in a tuck according to the simulator Deutch420. You're absolutely nuts for running that level of power on an aluminum drop out with no torque plate/arm. That's certainly dancing with the devil to go that fast without securing the axle.

Do you have any idea why your axle stripped? Was the nut the correct size / thread pitch / cross thread? Did you over tighten it? I recently had a over tightening scare myself on one of my hub motors and thought for sure I killed the axle threads but I got lucky and only stripped the nut leaving the threads safe. I was crossing my fingers as I removed it that the threads on the axle were OK. I hope your machinist friend can get you back up and running fast. I think you are the first to get one of these up and running. 58mph is really hauling. Even if your machinist friend can't fix your axle for you, he should be able to design a clamping dropout for you that does not require a nut so not all hope is lost. It looks like you have quite a bit of axle sticking out to work with.

If you want to up the voltage with that 26" wheel you are probably going to want a 36 FET IRFB4115 controller, I don't think a 24 FET will handle the amp demand that motor is going to require unless it's tweaked really well like I've been doing to my controller builds. Having the FETs matched for the same turn on voltage is critical for them to load share evenly, otherwise they can turn into FET popcorn. The more FETs your parallel the more critical the matching becomes. Even with the mods I do to my controllers I don't think I'll push my 36 FET controller much past 200A battery/250A pase and would stop at 150Abattery/200A phase on a 24 FET IRFB4115 setup, probably even less due to the extra load of it being a 26" tire vs the 20" tires I like to run. Your best bet might be to step up to one of the newer Kelley controllers or a even a Sevcon, but the Sevcons cost $1k and only go to something like 116V max (I just looked at one myself but can't justify the cost). Throttle control is amazing on it though.

 

[Hyena]

+1 at the disbelief of running that motor on an alloy dropout with no torque arms.
You're a maniac!

I too hope the axle issue isn't going to be a recurring theme. Good old crystalyte. Good thing we're paying a premium for their quality hey ?

 

[neptronix]

Please wear a helmet when you do stupid things like run 8kW on aluminum dropouts with no torque plates/arms.

You can survive a broken back, but a broken skull when you fall backwards is another story.