New Ping battery cuts out

L

lawson415

1 mW
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Tucson/Seattle
Hi All

Some newbie questions:

I just wired up and intsalled a new ping 36 v 20ah battery. I am using an Ebike controller and CA with a 400W Ebike geared front hub.

When i first plugged the battery into the controller, I got a little spark. After that, i could not get anything out of it- no lights or text on the CA.

I took ping bat out and reinstalled my Ebike battery and everything worked fine. I took the bike on errands and returned in several hours with a volt meter. I checked ping battery voltage and polarity- it was 43V and polarity was correct. I unplugged and repluugged in the bms and everything worked. I took the bike out w/ the ping and went up several steep, long hills. The battery cut out and would not start after drawing s/t like 1150 w. I pedaled home and set the Ca to limit the max amp to 28 A.

The battery worked fine after tis on test drive w/ some hills until I got on a rough road with lots of bumps and pothols. After hitting a big pump at a bpout 10 mph, the battery cut out.

I unplugged the bms and replugged it and the battery came back.

I have charged the battery 3x- once when it arrived and twice today after running it down about 2AH. All lights on the bms came on each time I charged. BTW, the bms gets pretty warm when charging..

What do you all think is wrong?


Regards


Robert
 
Rough roads could be causing current spikes that occur too quickly for the CA to manage but which are large enough to trip the BMS.
 
Doesn't sound normal to me. Just a rough road shouldn't cause a problem. The connector iteslf of course could be the problem. Andersons for one, can easily break contact if the contact is not staying in the housing correctly.

If not that, then contact ping for help of course. It could be an over sensitive bms or some such thing. By now, the battery sounds like its balanced enough to not have a low cell problem.

Another possibility is a weak connection on a bms plug.
 
Andersons are notorious for getting just a tad bent during the crimp, Then they may unhook from the retention spring and back out of the housing.

You can hot glue the back end to prevent that, but then you don't get the best part of andersons, the floating, self adjusting contact. You just have to learn to tweak em down a bit, then slip em into the housing.
 
I think it trips the bms when plugging into the controller and charging the caps. There may be a loose connector a current spike tripping it while riding.
 
Thanks guys-

There is lots for me to learn and this forum is a great help. I used to do automotive electrical work but these elecctric bike motors, controllers and batteries is a lot of new information for me.

I just contacted ping and I will see what he says.

I will check out the anderson plug coming out of the ping battery.

I noticed that the plug into the bms is loose and the tip of the plastic lock that would hold it on is broken so the plug comes out easily. I will tape it together and see if that helps

Dogman- thanks for telling me about the death race. I forgot to put it into my calendar so I missed it- damn, it looked like a lot of fun. next year, i guess

Robert
 
The symptoms you are describing sound very simular what I have recently experienced with a new Ping pack.

In my discussions with Ping I learned he/they made a change in construction methods that seems to have exacerbated a weak point in the sense wires.
Maybe you have experenced a simular failure?

In the interest of not duping data I will simply refer you to the thread, I hope it helps:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27001
 
K.E.Koop, So was your problem the sense wires ? Once the problem is fixed or Ping sends out a good pack you don't hear a thing. Rember Ping sells thousands of packs. He will help with everything. I think Dogman says 22amps. is the magic # 25amps. should be tops for long battery life.
 
Yes, the sense wire was the cause of the 0 output, however, chasing the problem showed their was a bad cell in the pack also ... so given its brand spanking new it seems reasonable that Ping tries again. Please dont get nme wrong, I dont mind fixing something minor like a fan or even the sense wire problem, but hacking a new pack to repair what should have been discovered before shipping is just asking too much after spending $775.
 
more lies from kekop.

you never proved there was a bad cell.

when you started that thread where you trashed ping originally, you stated right up front in the first line that the pack worked for you up until the point where you ran it down to LVC and it cut off. it would never have worked with a bad cell or a broken sense wire connection.

you made up this story about how it had a bad wire and now you say it had a bad cell, you never demonstrated any of that, instead you just continue to insult ping about how he sent you a bad battery you had to fix.

you did not have to fix that battery, there was nothing wrong with it until you cut the plastic off and broke the sense wire.

for you now to blame it on some 'new' construction technique by ping is even more stupid because i can see from looking at your picture it is exactly as he has been making them for years.

you did not have to take that pack apart, you decided to do that on your own and then have blamed ping since for your own incompetence. we tried to help you then but you never replied. so it was entirely your fault, not ping.

you should not continue to pass off this lie as though you are some kinda expert. you are not.

this guy has a bad connection somewhere and just needs to find it by working at it on his own and not get hung up in your lies and distortions about ping's assembly practices.
 
“more lies from kekop.”
Dnmun,
Get some help take some meds something to get your psychological problems reigned in. Your attacks are not welcomed by anyone.

“you never proved there was a bad cell.”
Ping, the manufacture, agrees there is a bad cell, which is all that matters to me. If you believe I need to prove something to you in order to use this forum without your pathetic attacks you are mistaken. If you persist in your slander you will do nothing but create a civil suit.

“when you started that thread where you trashed ping originally”
I have not “trashed” anyone, not even you, even though you persist in your ignorance and arrogance.

“you stated right up front in the first line that the pack worked for you up until the point where you ran it down to LVC and it cut off.”
You are incorrect in your assertion. I did not run the battery to LVC nor did I say so. I recommend you get your facts straight before you slander again.

“it would never have worked with a bad cell or a broken sense wire connection.”
Again get your facts straight. Surely you are smart enough to do that, or could it be that you would rather ignore facts in favour of these miss-guided ignorant personal attacks

“you made up this story”
Dnmun, understand, you are the only one making up stories here.

“about how it had a bad wire and now you say it had a bad cell,”
Both are facts, even if you have some irrational psychological problem accepting it, the facts remain.

“you never demonstrated any of that,”
Again, Ping has agreed that the cell is bad; this is all that matters and it is between him and me. Nothing needs to proven to you, if you truly believe it does, get help for your problem.

“you just continue to insult ping about how he sent you a bad battery you had to fix.”
The only one behaving in an insulting manner is you. I have made statements of fact, yes this looks bad for Ping, it should, he did ship a new and expensive battery with multiple problems. To his credit he has stated that he will make it good and has indeed shipped a replacement.

“you did not have to fix that battery”
If it did not need repair, why then did it not function?

“there was nothing wrong with it until you cut the plastic off and broke the sense wire.”
Please try & get it through your psychological malady, your perception of events is not correct.

“for you now to blame it on some 'new' construction technique by ping is even more stupid because i can see from looking at your picture it is exactly as he has been making them for years.”
I quote Ping from his reply to my suggestions for improvement:
“The sense wire problem is true. We have changed the way of soldering them after getting your report and pictures. Actually, we didn’t use the fiberglass and glue before and have never met such problems. But recently, one of our technicians suggested improving it. But it seems it hasn’t been improved well. Also, we need to check if the sense wires on the pack had been well soldered. Based on our testing and experiences before, if they’re soldered well, they shouldn’t be loose. Maybe we need to add more control points in the procedures to check if they’re well soldered.”
So, if we go by your assertion, ping has lied to me, who should I believe ... the clearly miss-guided random person on the forum or the apparantly sucessful businessman?

“you did not have to take that pack apart, you decided to do that on your own and then have blamed ping since for your own incompetence.”
Again, your ignorance and arrogance appears unrelenting.

“we tried to help you then but you never replied.”
As stated in my previous reply to you”
“Dnmun, Please have a look at the posts. I have not asked for your technical assistance, yet you sought to force it upon me. I am perfectly skilled & capable to diagnose any issues related in this thread. My post was an inquiry about a businessman and any experiences others had with quality issues. To be clear, I did not ask for your help. In fact you have not been helpful, but rather aggressive, rude and taunting. I am guessing you must suffer from a malady such as Autism or Asperger's disorder as you seem to possess some technical knowledge, but not the wisdom or insight to carry yourself respectfully. I will cut you as much slack as possible given the level of personal attacking you are engaging in and try to explain just once at a level I hope you may comprehend.”

“so it was entirely your fault, not ping.”
Even after all of your slander and flailing about; the fact remains, the battery was & is not in good order as a new product should be.

“you should not continue to pass off this lie as though you are some kinda expert. you are not.”
You only degrade yourself in your continuing slander and miss-guided assertions.

“this guy has a bad connection somewhere and just needs to find it by working at it on his own and not get hung up in your lies and distortions about ping's assembly practices.”
I offer only my experiences accurately reported in the hopes it helps, which by far, is more helpful than your toxic slanderous spew.
 
999zip99,
Sorry I was distraacted by Dnmun's spew.
2 Bikes:
GT Force 2's
The motors are a BMC V2 Torque wound
One bike has a Ping 60V 15AH and the other will have (ordered) a Ping 60V 10AH
The controllers are a crystalite 12 FET limited to 20 amps
I do have a cyclanalyist on both bikes with current limiting set to 12amps and 10amps respectivly.
 
Although a bit more cumbersom to connect and manage due to the "extra" part, (fuse) a thread together fuse holder(s) is a fairly secure alternative. An added bonus is an extra measure of fire safety.
 
It's a 1 or 2% thing with the andersons. If you have a few hundred, like I do, you see it happen. The fix is easy, usually just bend the contact back down a tad, and perhaps bend the sping in the housing back up some.

It's easy to look at and not see it, unless you know about the problem. Easy to fix out on the road too, so it won't strand you. 4mm bullets may be the best connector, but then they fry on the connecting the controller spark. So the big power guys usually have a resistor to minimize the spark. For a low amp, low voltage commuter bike though, andersons work great since the spark chars the tip, but then as the contace slides in it touches on the clean part.
 
The screw or bayonet variety would double as a disconnect as they separate into two parts whereas the automotive/blade style are generally one molded piece which does not separate other than to remove the fuse. With reference to current handling some of the audio enthusiast holders will handle far more current than most of us need and could look really pimp : P if you are into such things…
pimp-fuse-holder.jpg
 
Someone else on here complained that the ping batteries do not like to be shaken or bumped so those rough roads can sometimes kill a ping battery. Someone on here damaged their ping that way (so he said) and he switched to LIPO. It was Nomad85 that said that I think.
 
Someone else on here complained that the ping batteries do not like to be shaken or bumped so those rough roads can sometimes kill a ping battery. Someone on here damaged their ping that way (so he said) and he switched to LIPO. It was Nomad85 that said that I think.
Click to expand...

I don't think I need to say how many times I've been off road, dropped my bike on it's side, or gone down stairs with my bike and ping. The mechanics of the pack are sound.

Any poorly crimped connector doesn't like to be shaken. Especially andersons. The ebike community sorely needs a better standard connector. To bad all the good ones (bullets) aren't idiot proof and can be plugged in wrong.
 
I agree, I've dirt ridden very hard with pings and never had a problem shaking them. I carry them tight though, not rattling around inside a bag.

My first ping has been trough lots of trail riding, and one over the handlebars at 15 mph crash.

My second ping has been through trail riding, has had the rack fall off the bike when a seatpost snapped, had the battery box lid break and fly over my head to land 20 feet in front of me, and went through an over the handlebars crash at 27 mph.

All that trail riding includes the occasional small crash, usually over the bars at low speed.

If a bump is cutting out a ping, something is wrong, and it could be the battery. More likely it's a plug, possibly the balance wires plug, balance wires where they solder to the pack, or even a stretched balance wire. Or simply a bad contact at the battery to controller wiring and plugs. Could even be inside the controller, where the wires solder to the board, though that is not likely.

But "pings are sensitive to bumps?" No, not one with no defects. I used to have tons of problems with the blade connectors on sla batteries coming undone on bumps. I have no problems with my andersons once I have them properly crimped and set into the housings. Watch my You tube trail vids, Plenty of bumps.
 
Hey all

Problem fixed, I think. I feel kinda stupid but i'm used to that.

I said the end of the clip that holds the bms plugs together was broken. I looked at it again with glasses onand saw that it was fine, just short. I pushed the bms plug in hard and the clip clicked and locked.

I rode the bike to a cafe a couple miles away and all worked fine. Btw, this cafe is where cyclists hang out before and after rides. If these women had coins in a pocket on their cycling shorts, I could read the dates- distracting but pleasant.
 
Sweet, good to hear that it was a simple fix. Also glad to hear I wasnt far off when I suggested your symptoms sounded like an intermettent sense wire such as I experenced. Happy motoring!
 
I find 4mm bullet connectors from hobby king work well one flipped so as not to able to connect wrong. The insulated ones solder for true connection.
 
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