LeftieBiker said:
I don't think that 180lbs makes me a "featherweight."
Also, the fork on the EZIP is definitely cheaper, but performs better for normal riding because it has a better spring rate - it moves for bumps, but not too much.
Hi everyone, its Rob again. Not to beat a dead horse here but the ZXR fork is a 120mm travel fork and an excellent fork. It is also produce under private label for some of the big guys. The fork has minimal break-in like any fork and not worth mentioning in the manual. I want to answer this post about the fork because we believe it is being misrepresented. The ZXR fork could easily be a $199-$299 and not the same fork on the Genesis which would be at best $99. We sell the ZXR for $99 and the Genesis fork for $69 separately if needing a part for the bike. The fork is fabricated as follows: There is a Magnesisum Lower which has nylon sleeves. The stanchions are hard anodized aluminum mounted to an aluminum crown. The stanchions compress to the lowers via firm (specified) coils while passing through the nylon sleeves. There is not much to go wrong here. How we know it was compressing was because the customer without riding the bike, was able to push on the handlebar to compress. The customer compressed the forks up to 2 inches (51mm) simply by pushing. This is enough travel when just standing still and applying the brake and pushing. If they were locked which we cannot figure how they could be, they would not compress. Believe me, once we get the bike back, I will check the forks myself. If something was truly wrong, I will apologize like I have never apologized before, lol, but I believe there is no issue.
As far as speed, electric bike riders tend to be heavier and where most Road Bikes do travel over 20mph, they barely if ever use a suspension fork. If some was trying to travel at 20mph plus pedaling and using a suspension fork, they would have an incredible time doing so unless they locked the fork. It is one of the main reasons road bikes use rigid forks and the rake of the fork is what becomes the suspension if any. The majority of all pedaling is under 20mph across the USA unless pedaling a Road Bike with no suspension, riders are not pedaling mountain bikes on the bike paths anywhere close to 20mph as an average. The customer can believe otherwise and he does have a strong opinion but not from Research and only what he believes to be logically when in fact it is not. It is wrong to put out blanket statements to potential riders as if knowing what they are talking about and rather an opinion that could confuse people to believing they need soft forks. We could easily have specified soft springs or medium springs but that would be wrong. Even the fork factory understood this 100% and also stated they must be firm for this style electric bike. A soft fork would allow the rider to almost compress fully but never for the terrain these bikes are meant for. Full compression is for very slow riding, can you imagine compressing 4.7" (120mm travel fork) at 20mph, I think the rider would fly over the handlebars. Keep in mind the Outlaw is 180mm Travel but with a longer rake and we see this bike being ridden differently. We feel this must be clarified to potential riders.
There are reasons we asked for the bike back and the rider knows this because I wrote him myself. This is a no win situation with the rider, we could explain all we want and he has his opinion regardless of our years in R & D and the thousands of Phantoms that have been produced and sold with ZERO complaints about compression except for now. I explained to him we could ship a $5000 bike for $1200 and it would not matter. I did not want the customer to keep a bike I knew he would not be happy with. I do not believe it is the bike's or fork's fault. There was a very large amount of correspondence across all channels and multiple people became involved. The claims placed we felt were completely wrong, so we asked for the bike back but only after he requested to do so. There were multiple emails from the customer to the dealer, our service department, to myself, by phone, posts on Endless Sphere etc.. I truly felt this customer read many of the forums and where there is maybe 1% of customers who write on forums, he took any negative comments he previously read and they became his attitude towards the bike. It is the reason I started writing on Endless Sphere. There were commenters who never seen our bike or knew anything about our company who were trolling and writing negative comments believing we could not build an incredible ebike for under $1500 in the USA. When someone reads these negative blanket comments, they tend to believe them as fact. It was the same with this rider and his comments. The "FROG" commenter then stated after reading this rider's complaint about the fork, that he would no longer buy a Prodeco bike as he was saving up to buy one. I am sure it was not because the customer stated it was damaged but rather the performance of the fork was not up to standards when in fact it surpasses any ebike in this price range. I truly doubt someone would not buy a bike because another person's bike was damaged in shipment, that makes no sense. Last year we had 1 bike returned for every 438 bikes sold. In this industry that is an amazingly low number, actually for any industry. I do have to say his dealer was 100% working in favor of the customer and tried their best to satisfy him. We have great dealers. This particular dealer is one of our higher volume dealers but the only negative thing I can say about the dealer is they do mostly internet sales and not too many storefront sales. We prefer dealers sell more storefront than internet but realize for many people there is not a Prodeco Technologies dealer near them and they have no choice but the Internet. I don't want to make it seem also the dealer was not there for him because the dealer was there all along.
Not for the dealer to have an issue with us requesting the bike back, we decided to take the bike back directly and paid any cost to the dealer they lost. I also do want to make clear the customer is in fact a great guy which is why it was so easy to take it back. The customer is yes a little feisty, which we do not mind. We do want to hear about real life experiences so we can always better the product and maybe we should detail better why we use certain components over others. This customer was nice the whole time, even if we did not agree with the fork claim and we believe he really just did not like the fork. That's what it came down too. Since the customer also always acted pleasantly for the most part, is why we also did not want him to incur cost. The customer was always very nice and never in anyway was he ever rude and to the contrary. I believe we even had it picked up at his house so he did not have to endure the trip to Fed Ex. The dealer who sold him the bike only offers a 100% refund on shipping to the customer and the cost the customer paid for the bike. If the customer were to return it for any reason, the customer would pay shipping. That is where we stepped in. The dealer also stated the customer was a great guy and they felt bad about the situation. We honored the customer's request and paid to have it returned back to us and felt this was in everyone's best interest. The dealer told me his track record is 100% and since he does mostly internet sales, his sales rely heavily on keeping his customers happy.
The customer also stated the battery mount was damaged in shipping and one of the keys that goes into the battery mount was damaged but separately. The key was in the accessory box. The battery mount is easy enough to repair but the customer said he received it that way. I cannot blame the customer because I also would not be happy if I received a $1400 item that was damaged so I understand completely where he was coming from. Out track record for no damage shipments has been phenomenal and we are told by all the dealers our packaging is number 1 with little to no damage every happening. It can happen though and we have seen Fed Ex turn the boxes like wheels (upside down).
The eZip is a great bike for the price and he is right at 1/4 of the price but apple and oranges compared to the Phantom. For 1/4 of the price, I cannot say anything bad about it and Currie is a great company coming out with better and better products. Our company is just different and we went a complete different direction than the other ebike companies.
I apologize again for such a long post but I understand a lot of people read the Endless Sphere (I am actually amazed at how many read Endless Sphere) and I wanted to explain what happened. We heard a lot about this particular issue and I believe there must now be 100s of people checking their Phantom forks over this. Our belief is the issue came down to personal preference while taking the science out of it. BTW, we do offer RockShox Recon forks with 120mm travel which are soft but they come with a lock out for city riding. If not having the rider weight and terrain being constant, it is way too dangerous to have too soft a fork for high-speed travel for everyone. The dealer must order 20 pieces in an order to upgrade to the RockShox Recon GOLD SoloAir with lockout.
Thanks everyone and Happy Thanksgiving, Robert Provost
