New project. Trike, customer wants it to go fast

[rborger73]

A wheelchair for those who are so desperately incontinent that they must speed between lavatories.

Nice if you need that sort of thing.

Well the customer is 75.. so does he get a pass? He was one of the few in the country to have a helicopter grounded by military jets when he flew it anyways ignoring the air restrictions due to 911. I'm sure this 60mph wheelchair will be what gets him.. lol It was in the paper, so not just some story. lol

I know you ain't talking bout me. 14,000 miles on my hard tail ebike in 2 years.. My posterior has calluses on it's calluses

 

[Wheazel]

Flimsy? Covers on the sides? The whole thing is a solid unibody dude.. I've done 60mph with it, and had it going down the road at 45 yesterday doing S turns.. The "covers" aka the unibody has enough room to carry about 40Ah of batteries stacked in the back.. The thing is more solid than you have any idea.. lol The lower deck is diamond plate aluminum.. This thing is the farthest you can get from "flimsy".. I rode it 14 miles straight one day and never thought I was not comfy at all.

In short, did you read any of the thread, or have a clue of what you are talking? Poor design? wow..

Yes they look flimsy like some sort of temporary duct tape solution because of the shapes and the seams. It looks like its some sort of soft puffy plastic aluminum look bag.
This doesnt equal that the construction IS flimsy, but it sure looks flimsy to me. Hence why I think its a poor design choice.
I have checked the thread out several times in the past so I have seen all the stuff youve posted in the thread.
I work as an industrial designer/product designer and i honestly think there is room for improvements in this area.

The front is also all metal, all connected together... If you don't know what Unibody construction is, and are calling this trike "flimsy" in any way while looking at it on your tiny phone screen or whatever it is you are using, maybe next time don't even comment. PLEASE post whatever you've build so we can see your quality of work..

First you ask for honest opinions and then you get offended by the honest opinions? I have read the thread solely on a 27" screen.
Maybe some maturing of your personality or growing up would be in order. You can check out my cargobike build in my signature if thats what you want.

 

[rborger73]

Flimsy? Covers on the sides? The whole thing is a solid unibody dude.. I've done 60mph with it, and had it going down the road at 45 yesterday doing S turns.. The "covers" aka the unibody has enough room to carry about 40Ah of batteries stacked in the back.. The thing is more solid than you have any idea.. lol The lower deck is diamond plate aluminum.. This thing is the farthest you can get from "flimsy".. I rode it 14 miles straight one day and never thought I was not comfy at all.

In short, did you read any of the thread, or have a clue of what you are talking? Poor design? wow..

Yes they look flimsy like some sort of temporary duct tape solution because of the shapes and the seams. It looks like its some sort of soft puffy plastic aluminum look bag.
This doesnt equal that the construction IS flimsy, but it sure looks flimsy to me. Hence why I think its a poor design choice.
I have checked the thread out several times in the past so I have seen all the stuff youve posted in the thread.
I work as an industrial designer/product designer and i honestly think there is room for improvements in this area.

The front is also all metal, all connected together... If you don't know what Unibody construction is, and are calling this trike "flimsy" in any way while looking at it on your tiny phone screen or whatever it is you are using, maybe next time don't even comment. PLEASE post whatever you've build so we can see your quality of work..

First you ask for honest opinions and then you get offended by the honest opinions? I have read the thread solely on a 27" screen.
Maybe some maturing of your personality or growing up would be in order. You can check out my cargobike build in my signature if thats what you want.

I already discounted your opinion to be questionable at best. Unibody construction... and aircraft building techniques, are far from "flimsy". Maybe I should have built a big heavy ass bike to haul stuff with questionable steering.

Here was my request for feedback. Perhaps it isn't the issue of your screen size, but of faulty eyes?

"WOULD LOVE FEEDBACK! Please, no worried replies of crazy ebikers ruining it for all. Just positive thanks please. " JUST POSITIVE THANKS PLEASE.. Did you miss that part?

Yes I wasn't impressed by your cargo bike, I think the design isn't great. I think it is large clunky, slow looking, steering apt to fail at the worst possible times. Heavy, and fugly. Use of mid drive motors I think is silly unless the only way to power it. I don't go in everyones mid drive bike or trike thread to tell them mid drive is stupid. Maybe it is best if you keep your snide low brow opinions to yourself. How in the world a incredibly solid body built in construction with strengthens the ENTIRE vehicle, looks "flimsy" to you I don't know. Maybe the Viking gods of Iron smiled more on your country... I however didn't feel the need to tell you that in your thread, because I'm not a jerk.

However PLEASE post trike designs that you think are less "duct tape" Is that patched together thing in your avatar a trike of some sort? Looks awful as well. lol

 

[rborger73]

Ok this is my last post on this forum, and I may just delete any threads I started if possible. The amount of rudeness I've experienced while trying to simply share my work on here has become untenable. Between moderators deleting posts for ridiculous reasons, and more rude members than your average forum. I'm done.

 

[gman1971]

I've experienced the same rudeness here as well, and I am still here; trust me, its not worth it that a few jealous people try to knock you down. You built a nice trike out of a KMX and there is no arguing with that, hence the rudeness... and no replacement for three wheels IMO. I've come to realize (wow, so obvious right?) that building something is much harder than knocking on someone's work.

With that said, here is mine:

Its a 6 kW true mid-drive, capable of 60+ mph and about 140 miles range at ~20 mph cruise on flats, no pedaling. I've cleaned up the front and added a few more aero shapes since those pictures were taken, but the trike is mostly the same.

I've taken mine up to 60 mph without any suspension, and to date I have yet to feel scared at that speed. A KMX frame is made out of steel, so its much more flexible (b/c tubes are thinner) than a rigid AL trike, plus it won't fatigue under power, nor squat back when you apply the full 6 kW. A fully suspended trike that isn't designed for handling that kind of power is a bad idea for a high power trike b/c the rear suspension will need to be fairly stiff to prevent bottoming out every time you hammer the throttle... so at that point you might as well not have rear suspension.

I have two trikes like the one in the pictures, both built by me.

G.

 

[rborger73]

You are the first I've seen using the space behind the seat other than hanging a square box under there. Looks good. 8)

 

[gman1971]

Thanks.

There are a lot of other trikes who use the space behind the seat or around that area. Look up Outrider Alpha trike, which uses a belt drive mid-direct-drive setup.... They built the battery box at the bottom of the frame. That trike doesn't look attractive to me, but it sure performs very well.

Rborger, I have to comment on this, so please don't take anything personal here:

Looking flimsy is an opinion, which is the same as you calling it an unibody. To clarify things, an unibody is something that when glued together becomes structurally strong. The KMX frame was already strong before you tacked on anything so this is not an unibody in the sense of cars.

Again, without demeriting your skill, what you've basically done is you tacked some metal to the already strong frame that KMX built... which is more like a pickup truck, or a Corvette, which has a super stiff/strong hydroformed frame rails with fiberglass (or CF nowadays) bolted on... Corvette is not an unibody as the main strength of the body comes from the hydroformed rails. A true unibody frame would be if you ditched the entire KMX frame and you welded it from the ground up together with 100 pieces to become really strong.

As for your mid-drive comment:
I do take great pride on building my own ultra-reliable, high-powered mid-drive eBikes and eTrikes that run trouble-free for thousands of miles. You calling a mid-drive stupid isn't helping anything nor anybody. If you don't understand what the beauty of a mid-drive is then you are fine building hubs, just keep doing it and refrain from calling what you don't understand stupid. But also realize that my "stupid" mid-drive trike will probably smoke your trike on the straights and at every turn since I have most of the weight placed over the front wheels, as opposed to your "cough cough" "stupid" hub trike which has a big a$$ 25+ lbs lead weight over the worst possible place in a triangle: above the CG at the rear wheel; and that's not taking into account all the metal you tacked on which raises the CG even higher and pushes it further back and outside the imaginary triangle edges, which is the worst possible thing you can do on a trike.

Realize that we can all get ugly at this, so insulting other people's designs b/c you think is the "duct-tape-mobile", or the "plywoodmobile", or the "metal-welded-mobile" will get you nowhere in life. Trust me, I know. Also realize that your trike is not the one trike where Jesus was born, nor mine; its just another trike with its goods and its not-so-goods.

EDIT: I would like to see a video of your trike doing 60 mph (98 km/h). Here is one of my "stupid " mid-drive trikes doing 57 mph, and I didn't go any faster b/c as you'll see in the video I had to let go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSo2f1BCKO4 There aren't many long enough FLAT roads where I live to test how fast my trike can go. This was done with batteries at half capacity.

G.

Flimsy? Covers on the sides? The whole thing is a solid unibody dude.. I've done 60mph with it, and had it going down the road at 45 yesterday doing S turns.. The "covers" aka the unibody has enough room to carry about 40Ah of batteries stacked in the back.. The thing is more solid than you have any idea.. lol The lower deck is diamond plate aluminum.. This thing is the farthest you can get from "flimsy".. I rode it 14 miles straight one day and never thought I was not comfy at all.

In short, did you read any of the thread, or have a clue of what you are talking? Poor design? wow..

Yes they look flimsy like some sort of temporary duct tape solution because of the shapes and the seams. It looks like its some sort of soft puffy plastic aluminum look bag.
This doesnt equal that the construction IS flimsy, but it sure looks flimsy to me. Hence why I think its a poor design choice.
I have checked the thread out several times in the past so I have seen all the stuff youve posted in the thread.
I work as an industrial designer/product designer and i honestly think there is room for improvements in this area.

The front is also all metal, all connected together... If you don't know what Unibody construction is, and are calling this trike "flimsy" in any way while looking at it on your tiny phone screen or whatever it is you are using, maybe next time don't even comment. PLEASE post whatever you've build so we can see your quality of work..

First you ask for honest opinions and then you get offended by the honest opinions? I have read the thread solely on a 27" screen.
Maybe some maturing of your personality or growing up would be in order. You can check out my cargobike build in my signature if thats what you want.

I already discounted your opinion to be questionable at best. Unibody construction... and aircraft building techniques, are far from "flimsy". Maybe I should have built a big heavy ass bike to haul stuff with questionable steering.

Here was my request for feedback. Perhaps it isn't the issue of your screen size, but of faulty eyes?

"WOULD LOVE FEEDBACK! Please, no worried replies of crazy ebikers ruining it for all. Just positive thanks please. " JUST POSITIVE THANKS PLEASE.. Did you miss that part?

Yes I wasn't impressed by your cargo bike, I think the design isn't great. I think it is large clunky, slow looking, steering apt to fail at the worst possible times. Heavy, and fugly. Use of mid drive motors I think is silly unless the only way to power it. I don't go in everyones mid drive bike or trike thread to tell them mid drive is stupid. Maybe it is best if you keep your snide low brow opinions to yourself. How in the world a incredibly solid body built in construction with strengthens the ENTIRE vehicle, looks "flimsy" to you I don't know. Maybe the Viking gods of Iron smiled more on your country... I however didn't feel the need to tell you that in your thread, because I'm not a jerk.

However PLEASE post trike designs that you think are less "duct tape" Is that patched together thing in your avatar a trike of some sort? Looks awful as well. lol

 

[macribs]

Ok this is my last post on this forum, and I may just delete any threads I started if possible. The amount of rudeness I've experienced while trying to simply share my work on here has become untenable. Between moderators deleting posts for ridiculous reasons, and more rude members than your average forum. I'm done.

Hm. Try not to take comments as personal attacks as they seldom are. You have made a build you a proud of. But when you do post the build in a public forum you must understand that you will get all kinds of feedback. Also feedback that might seem hurting. If you try to look at things from a distance you might find that people are not talking you down as a person or your skills as a builder. They are commenting on what they see from the pics you posted. And not all comments are negative


Also keep in mind that you where the one that started to use the work unibody. I think people might feel you are coming on a little too strong about your build. Because the build was really done by KMX. What you did was really "bolt on" or what is sometimes referred to as catalog build. Nothing wrong with either the term or the work put into such builds.

You build it, customer bought it. Well done. If some here don't like it - why should you care? If you build a trike for them you can listen to what they say. If not you can choose to ignore them. In the end if the customer is happy and pays up for the build you have for filled your part of the deal. That being said sometimes it can pay dividends to listen to others, and it might save you tons of extra work in the future if you consider what people are saying rather then getting emotional about it and feeling hurt.

I think if you continue to visit you will find that ES forum is for the most part a place where we all enjoy to hang. Rudeness are seldom seen and you will get used to forum jargong.

 

[gman1971]

A wheelchair for those who are so desperately incontinent that they must speed between lavatories.

Nice if you need that sort of thing.

LOVE IT.

G.

 

[Wheazel]

I already discounted your opinion to be questionable at best. Unibody construction... and aircraft building techniques, are far from "flimsy". Maybe I should have built a big heavy ass bike to haul stuff with questionable steering.

Here was my request for feedback. Perhaps it isn't the issue of your screen size, but of faulty eyes?

"WOULD LOVE FEEDBACK! Please, no worried replies of crazy ebikers ruining it for all. Just positive thanks please. " JUST POSITIVE THANKS PLEASE.. Did you miss that part?

Yes I wasn't impressed by your cargo bike, I think the design isn't great. I think it is large clunky, slow looking, steering apt to fail at the worst possible times. Heavy, and fugly. Use of mid drive motors I think is silly unless the only way to power it. I don't go in everyones mid drive bike or trike thread to tell them mid drive is stupid. Maybe it is best if you keep your snide low brow opinions to yourself. How in the world a incredibly solid body built in construction with strengthens the ENTIRE vehicle, looks "flimsy" to you I don't know. Maybe the Viking gods of Iron smiled more on your country... I however didn't feel the need to tell you that in your thread, because I'm not a jerk.

However PLEASE post trike designs that you think are less "duct tape" Is that patched together thing in your avatar a trike of some sort? Looks awful as well. lol

Its hopeless to discuss designchoices with someone that:
1. Has no clue what meaning the term actually contains
2. Doesnt have the ability, or is too butthurt to consider other input
You might qualify for both, judging by your reactions. I am not surprised that you have had posts removed. "for no reason"

I may come across as blunt, but my intention was never to hurt your feelings.
The reason I think the construction looks flimsy, is becasue it resembles a puffy bag in how its shaped. That construction method you choose under these particular circumstances, makes it hard to have control of the shapes.
I think a much cleaner look could have been achieved with aluminum plate, folded in a "stealth vehicle" manner. Or something like gman1971 posted. The basic idea to make a compartment behind the seat is great.

Furthermore I hope you feel better now that you got the chance to spew some crap on my cargobuild. Some very valuable insights delivered, and also very relevant to this discussion...
Feel free to comment in the thread if you actually have some real feedback, because I wont go into brainmelt and start to call names just because I get a comment that doesnt align with my own view.

 

[gman1971]

Puffy bag... yep, that's what happens when you piss people off, you get your stuff called a Puffy bag... or a piece of crap... or sometimes much much worse.

In any case, I agree with your statements, it could've been done in a different way... that is why you should always try to make things in CAD before you lay the first bolt.

BTW, Wheazel your cargo bike looks fairly good in red, I liked the pictures you posted on your build thread.

If anyone cares, the panels behind the seat on my trike were made out of heat molded ABS plastic sheets. 35 dollars worth of plastic sheets and ~2 hours worth of cutting and molding to my CAD blueprints... I like KISS.

As someone who builds things that actually fly, rborger73 approach to tack on metal over an already solid metal structure wouldn't get planes off the ground... you just can't overbuild things like that on a plane/helicopter b/c it simply won't fly.

G.

Its hopeless to discuss designchoices with someone that:
1. Has no clue what meaning the term actually contains
2. Doesnt have the ability, or is too butthurt to consider other input
You might qualify for both, judging by your reactions. I am not surprised that you have had posts removed. "for no reason"

I may come across as blunt, but my intention was never to hurt your feelings.
The reason I think the construction looks flimsy, is becasue it resembles a puffy bag in how its shaped. That construction method you choose under these particular circumstances, makes it hard to have control of the shapes.
I think a much cleaner look could have been achieved with aluminum plate, folded in a "stealth vehicle" manner. Or something like gman1971 posted. The basic idea to make a compartment behind the seat is great.

Furthermore I hope you feel better now that you got the chance to spew some crap on my cargobuild. Some very valuable insights delivered, and also very relevant to this discussion...
Feel free to comment in the thread if you actually have some real feedback, because I wont go into brainmelt and start to call names just because I get a comment that doesnt align with my own view.

 

[rborger73]

Absolutely ... is a unibody construction. This was "tacking metal on.. lol Anyways.. even the ones trying to be nice... If you actually saw it in person you'd understand. There isn't any place on this thing you can push and you'll feel any give.

The kmx frame absolutely is very flimsy. You can actually see it twist and flex. Which is the reason it gets so squirrely at higher speeds. My DESIGN.. Which you don't need to use CAD to come up with a design. And I spent literally months trying many different options before after consulting with an aircraft building friend.. that has built many planes, and their father has built many planes, before I decided this way, and IF AGAIN people would read the thread prior to commenting... they'd see I covered all this in detail, they'd see I had to repeatedly answer the same questions over, I had to repeatedly explain the customer knows the risks..

When it becomes a repetitive effort to simply share your work on here, it becomes apparent why so many build threads are left not updated.

As far as people using the space behind the seats, a box hanging off the side that doesn't utilize all the space behind the seat, and make not making a weather resistant enclosure to house all components, to me is the "duct tape" version. All weight on this trike is purposely at the lowest point possible. I honestly don't know why I'm even bothering replying.... Someone will simply read a few lines, then start replying while not spending a minute reading..

As far as Mid drive... you break a chain you're done.. Chain noise defeats the purpose of having the adaptto and spending the money to get a near silent vehicle. Again I have no issue with it, I said it to make a point. That I don't go around in every mid drive thread pissing on people's work, because I'm an ass, but not one that wants other people to feel bad. The only time I've replied on this forum on someone else's build negatively has been when there are ACTUAL safety issues, like using wire nuts on lipo battery packs which I've seen done on the forum, and those guys get less slack than I did for building a custom purposely ordered Trike...

Anyways.. Already have 3 new orders locally and they all were given the option of carbon fiber or fiberglass sides... Guess what.. they want it in aluminum, done just the way this one is.. They also all got to inspect it closely, with the seat off to see inside, took rides on it, came back and asked how much the deposit would be and each had a diff specs they wanted. So... lol ttfn..

 

[gman1971]

And what made you determine that the KMX frame needed reinforcements? Was that a vision? or you just thought it needed reinforcement? do you have any clues as to why you decided to weld all that stuff on? Perhaps I need to create a nice CAD rendering of your trike with some cement rebar around the frame too and run some FEA on it, b/c you can never be too sure if its going to flex...

If you think the KMX is "squirrely" at high speeds then you either have never taken it past 30 mph or you need to improve your riding skills... I don't know how else to explain it. I take mine close to 60 regularly and the sense of control at those speeds is absolute, the steering is precise and crisp and it rides like its on rails... But wait, of course!!, you have a lead weight on the rear wheel, so nothing you do is going to fix the weight distribution problem of those 25+ lbs of motor you carry on the rear plus those extra tacked on 25 lbs of metal work around the edges. That's 50 lbs worth of dead weight in the wrong parts of the vehicle... Oh, I hope you have really good insurance for when your customers get killed or handicapped riding that trike you sold them and their family sues you.

As for the "if I break the chain you're done..." I don't think this deserves a response..

As for noise, you obviously have never taken yours to 60 mph b/c the wind noise at 60 mph is so deafening that blocks all noise coming from motor, chain and everything else... so what matter does it make if the motor is quiet at 60 mph (which is not BTW, not even hubs are silent at 60 mph at full throttle) when the wind noise covers everything up?

As for your orders: I don't care.

G.

 

[rborger73]

I ... drove it at 55mph without the body, just the frame. The wheels would lift off the ground at any point you turned even remotely sharp at any speed over 25mph. How did I figure it out? I spent a year building this. Testing each new idea.. I put 100 miles on it testing it. The larger portion prior to deciding on a final design.

Going down a road straight, and doing as sharp of S curves as it can handle from edge of road to edge of road. If you read this thread people very much experienced with KMX frames also said the same as my anecdotle evidence. The whole body twists with just the frame.

I drove SCCA for about 2 or 3 years. I've had no issue driving it with or without the body. The issue is physics.. you have more or less a lever on the front. It causes leverage, causing the frame to twist in the longer part of the frame. Again, you can actually watch the wheel and frame flex if you take it into a parking lot and push it as hard as you can without tipping it.

You have a 150lb Plus rider you seem to be forgetting about. Sitting dead center offsetting the 25lbs of weight in the rear. The trike TOTAL weights under 70lbs... There is about 15lbs of batteries. My added weight for the body was nil. Maybe 5lbs. in the shell, and another 3lbs in the deck plate. It is super balanced. Before the body was finished and I retested it all, I was absolutely sure I would have to use a steering arm. That eliminated that. Stopped it from being squirrely. Don't know why it is even a question. Race car driver has been zipping around on it since I posted the newest pics. Says it handles amazing..


Other people can't hear wind noise. And yes I had it up to 60 about 10 times in the span of 30 mins on the last test drive. Country roads with turns, pot holes, uneven roads, etc.

Yes if my chain breaks on my bike, I just keep going. Same with this trike. Mid drives are noise from turn of the throttle on. I don't like to draw attention when I'm riding. I think a mid drive motor with a chain drive would absolutely get more attention from people hearing it.

Your logic is faulty, you obviously didn't read any of the thread, or the details of the trike. I'm 5'9" 150lbs and can hold it off the ground at chest level with no problems. Again, weight is balanced, and was important. Anyways.. just more and more a waste of time repeating things I've already covered, but time and time again in comes someone that read a few posts and jumped in to opine. Fabulous.. I'm sure lots of people reading are really learning new things from the lame replies. Again.. start at the beginning. I used this as an idea bouncing board and spent a good deal of time explaining things...

 

[rborger73]

I already discounted your opinion to be questionable at best. Unibody construction... and aircraft building techniques, are far from "flimsy". Maybe I should have built a big heavy ass bike to haul stuff with questionable steering.

Here was my request for feedback. Perhaps it isn't the issue of your screen size, but of faulty eyes?

"WOULD LOVE FEEDBACK! Please, no worried replies of crazy ebikers ruining it for all. Just positive thanks please. " JUST POSITIVE THANKS PLEASE.. Did you miss that part?

Yes I wasn't impressed by your cargo bike, I think the design isn't great. I think it is large clunky, slow looking, steering apt to fail at the worst possible times. Heavy, and fugly. Use of mid drive motors I think is silly unless the only way to power it. I don't go in everyones mid drive bike or trike thread to tell them mid drive is stupid. Maybe it is best if you keep your snide low brow opinions to yourself. How in the world a incredibly solid body built in construction with strengthens the ENTIRE vehicle, looks "flimsy" to you I don't know. Maybe the Viking gods of Iron smiled more on your country... I however didn't feel the need to tell you that in your thread, because I'm not a jerk.

However PLEASE post trike designs that you think are less "duct tape" Is that patched together thing in your avatar a trike of some sort? Looks awful as well. lol

Its hopeless to discuss designchoices with someone that:
1. Has no clue what meaning the term actually contains
2. Doesnt have the ability, or is too butthurt to consider other input
You might qualify for both, judging by your reactions. I am not surprised that you have had posts removed. "for no reason"

I may come across as blunt, but my intention was never to hurt your feelings.
The reason I think the construction looks flimsy, is becasue it resembles a puffy bag in how its shaped. That construction method you choose under these particular circumstances, makes it hard to have control of the shapes.
I think a much cleaner look could have been achieved with aluminum plate, folded in a "stealth vehicle" manner. Or something like gman1971 posted. The basic idea to make a compartment behind the seat is great.

Furthermore I hope you feel better now that you got the chance to spew some crap on my cargobuild. Some very valuable insights delivered, and also very relevant to this discussion...
Feel free to comment in the thread if you actually have some real feedback, because I wont go into brainmelt and start to call names just because I get a comment that doesnt align with my own view.

You are simply a . By definition. A "".. Didn't, nor do I give a shat about your cargo bike. Again, I'm not a jerk that jumps in a thread reads a few posts, doesn't understand even what I built, then tell others how much better my design is than theirs.. This is the same way aircraft are built. I had COMPLETELY control over the shape, as I custom bent and fit EACH aluminum strip to MAKE The shape I WANTED. This body was made so I can make molds to create fiberglass and carbon fiber sides for future builds. Instead of using modeling clay to create what I wanted, I produced a functional trike with a solid metal body. I own a sheet metal shop, and am able to do whatever I need to make sheet metal do what I want..

Just an exasperating waste of my time I see. READ THE FFING THREAD... Everything you are yapping about saying it is wrong, is covered.

 

[gman1971]

Let me guess: you've done everything and you know how to do everything better than everyone else... I get it.

So you've tested it for 1 year and that led you to decide it needed reinforcement? any calculations? anything? b/c dude, if thats so I am impressed now. You should work for Ford or GM to replace their FEA computer analysis software... Oh, and since you've done SCCA too, that really makes you an authority at this.

Insulting another member, calling him a moron doesn't make you any smarter, in fact rather the opposite. You seem like an arrogant show off, which needed to be giving some hard time after I read more carefully the thread; which started a bit harsh, but palatable, but deteriorated quickly. And when you insulted Wheazel demanding he post a better looking stuff than his avatar, and making such retarded claims that mid-drives are stupid etc, I just had to post... and I thrill at this stuff of entertaining the crowds in E-S... you can ask anyone here in E-S... and we can have at this all day long, believe me, y en dos idiomas si quieres tambien chavalin, que eres un grosero de pacotilla.

So now your trike according to your calculations is so stiff that the wheels don't bounce off the ground? Are you even aware of the amount of force that the wheels experience when you hit a pothole or a bump at 60mph? well, you probably don't, but just to clue you in: wake up, nothing you can muster, not even if you can bench press 500 lbs as a human will ever match the forces the trike frame is experiencing when you ride at 60 mph and hitting a bump; and if your physics knowledge is as deep as your guitar musical knowledge then I guess there is nothing further to talk about. Yep, I said that, b/c who posts their musical stuff in an Electric Vehicles forum if it isn't a bit of a show off?

Yap all you want, call me moron, etc... don't care. I think this could've turned into a great thread, but you chose the not-so high road... and this is how it ended. There was no personal attacks anywhere in this thread... you asked for honest opinion, and people gave it to you; but you flew off the handle like a 13 year old spoiled kid who got all pissed b/c daddy didn't bought him the toy he wanted.

BTW, Wheazel happens to be a VERY skilled builder if you care to read his build thread...

Anyhow, I am done here. Enjoy the lawsuit when one of your customers gets killed riding the "puffbagmobile" and I think you should follow up on your threat and not come back here.

G.

I ... drove it at 55mph without the body, just the frame. The wheels would lift off the ground at any point you turned even remotely sharp at any speed over 25mph. How did I figure it out? I spent a year building this. Testing each new idea.. I put 100 miles on it testing it. The larger portion prior to deciding on a final design.

Going down a road straight, and doing as sharp of S curves as it can handle from edge of road to edge of road. If you read this thread people very much experienced with KMX frames also said the same as my anecdotle evidence. The whole body twists with just the frame.

I drove SCCA for about 2 or 3 years. I've had no issue driving it with or without the body. The issue is physics.. you have more or less a lever on the front. It causes leverage, causing the frame to twist in the longer part of the frame. Again, you can actually watch the wheel and frame flex if you take it into a parking lot and push it as hard as you can without tipping it.

You have a 150lb Plus rider you seem to be forgetting about. Sitting dead center offsetting the 25lbs of weight in the rear. The trike TOTAL weights under 70lbs... There is about 15lbs of batteries. My added weight for the body was nil. Maybe 5lbs. in the shell, and another 3lbs in the deck plate. It is super balanced. Before the body was finished and I retested it all, I was absolutely sure I would have to use a steering arm. That eliminated that. Stopped it from being squirrely. Don't know why it is even a question. Race car driver has been zipping around on it since I posted the newest pics. Says it handles amazing..


Other people can't hear wind noise. And yes I had it up to 60 about 10 times in the span of 30 mins on the last test drive. Country roads with turns, pot holes, uneven roads, etc.

Yes if my chain breaks on my bike, I just keep going. Same with this trike. Mid drives are noise from turn of the throttle on. I don't like to draw attention when I'm riding. I think a mid drive motor with a chain drive would absolutely get more attention from people hearing it.

Your logic is faulty, you obviously didn't read any of the thread, or the details of the trike. I'm 5'9" 150lbs and can hold it off the ground at chest level with no problems. Again, weight is balanced, and was important. Anyways.. just more and more a waste of time repeating things I've already covered, but time and time again in comes someone that read a few posts and jumped in to opine. Fabulous.. I'm sure lots of people reading are really learning new things from the lame replies. Again.. start at the beginning. I used this as an idea bouncing board and spent a good deal of time explaining things...

 

[rborger73]

So some jerk comes in my thread, makes assertions that are completely wrong and untrue, and I'm the one causing problems. Gotcha.. Because this 'fittingly named" Weasel person, decided to come in saying I hung some "flimsy side covers", (which fyi is actually what you did. Abs plastic was my first attempt, and I realized it was simply a "flimsy side cover"), Funny how he didn't call out you on your design, since you decided to also attack me. lol What cad design did you use when you attached the plastic flimsy side covers with a couple bolts? lol

Go look through all of my posts. Find some where I've bashed anyone's work. There are some absolutely embarrassing ridiculous builds on here. I've yet to say anything negative other than someone using wire nuts, or something that is an actual safety issue..

Yes Weasel welded a cargo bike together.. He invented the wheel.. He has a trike in his avatar with the center of gravity ridiculously high. Seriously this forum can be a good resource for information, and it seriously can be an utter waste of time when you are trying to contribute.
'

 

[craneplaneguy]

How about "distributed load path structure". I like the way it looks, whatever you want to call it.

 

[rborger73]

How about "distributed load path structure". I like the way it looks, whatever you want to call it.

See they don't understand apparently that Unibody cars also have separate framing for da wheels to attach to. lol They bolt into the unibody. Which is exactly what this trike is doing. So I guess to have a "true" unibody they want me to cut out the center piece of main frame out. Which... I absolutely could do and it would affect very little. The deck plate is 3/16" thick and could hold the weight of more batteries than there is space to stack them. All the sheet metal is layered over the next layer, and riveted to the aluminum strips. Before it was painted I had people push on the sides of it to feel just how solid the thing is. I knew it would be strong when building it as I started with one section and experimented using different ideas. Abs plastic was put in place. The next one I'll use aluminum sheet, but this one is galvanized sheet metal.

Whatever someone would like to call it, it made it a very solid vehicle, that handles ridiculously better than it did just as the kmx frame. So much better a steering dampner really isn't needed. It would add to the control a bit, but since finishing the body fabrication I haven't felt at all nervous due to the steering at 50+ mph.

Next build may be mine so I can experiment with a few other ideas. Have one deposit for another custom order already, and 2 possibly 3 more orders pending. Till I get a deposit I don't count on them buying as they get excited, then spouses talk them out of it. lol I'm considering getting the custom kmx front suspension kit, but also making the rear have suspension. Will kill adding a rack back there, unless I can figure out a way around that. Rear seat posts would need a support as well, but anyways.. Regardless of some guy thousands of miles away from me not liking my "puffybag" trike.. I'll just keep building. lol

 

[macribs]

A full suspension trike with Titanium leaf spring w/shocks up front and suspended rear swing arm.
Inspiration for the next build maybe?

[youtube]W4zXpG-AUh8[/youtube]