New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[casainho]

So today while out for a ride, about to set off at a traffic light I heard a snap and my leg slipped. The driveside crank had sheared clean off. Only done about 1200 miles on the motor. This happened to anyone else? What are the chances of claiming a warranty replacement? I bought it off the ebird store on aliexpress.

I don´t remember to see such thing on TSDZ2. I had the same issues but with bottom bracket torque sensor I used in past. For TSDZ2, I think you need to buy a torque sensor because it includes the axle that you will need to exchange.

 

[manoz]

re:

So today while out for a ride, about to set off at a traffic light I heard a snap and my leg slipped. The driveside crank had sheared clean off. Only done about 1200 miles on the motor. This happened to anyone else? What are the chances of claiming a warranty replacement? I bought it off the ebird store on aliexpress.

whoa. I snapped a BB just once, was an early Phil Wood bottom bracket I'd just installed on my old Motobecane Grand Record roadie... I was a masher in my younger days, liked to stomp on tall gears. Was running a 54-42 front (campy cranks) and a 'straight block' rear (13-14-15-16-17) when I lived one summer in the flatlands. I forget (hey, it was 40 years ago), but I bet I was trying to launch at a light in 54:16 or something. anyways, I stood on it and it snapped clean off on the non-drive side. I managed to limp home riding with my right leg only, hah hah (straps and toeclips, this was the mid 70s)

you know what gear you were in ? With a mid drive, its pretty important to downshift before stopping, just like with a pure-pedal bike.

yeah unfortunately I have a habit of not changing down gears when I slow down. Normally I just put the motor in turbo mode briefly when I set off but this time I didn't. Had it on 42-11 gear. Plus I was on a slight uphill. I've broken several chains and a freehub buy mashing high gears. Still can't seem to break the habit lol. Anyways I messaged the ebird store on aliexpress and they said they will send me a free replacement axle. Just have to pay for postage which is $19

 

[JaiCee]

What are users of the OSF software doing about their display cables with the alternative displays not using the same connectors as the original? Are you cutting the connector off the original display and soldering that to the new display or is there an option to put a connector compatible with the display on the TSDZ2?

 

[weatherman]

Hi everyone,

Regarding the issue I reported previously:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10FQ9PcVPqwL05tWIXGQb2LGYvRw-kCjQ/view?usp=drivesdk

There were two possibilities given in this forum:
1. blue gear failure;
2. over-voltage;

After opening the engine, I was able to check the general condition, inside. Blue gear and all other gears seem ok!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VCyZa-buR3CHgInCVo5-sZSGXEg2JIoY/view?usp=drivesdk
Although I have not installed brake sensors, after 260km, things look pretty good, right?

So I will test #2.
I was not able to get a power supply with desired voltage (and current supply) so I will discharge the battery using walk assist and LCD backlight on and check if erratic behaviour disappears. If you have any other better suggestion please go ahead!

How does OSF, overcomes this issue? In the wiki I read that it is possible to define the battery low-cut-off voltage.
But how about the upper limit?

Thanks and regards

 

[casainho]

!
How does OSF, overcomes this issue? In the wiki I read that it is possible to define the battery low-cut-off voltage.
But how about the upper limit?

Thanks and regards

Our OpenSource firmware has only relevant features and, their configurations, for final user. All configurations are documented on the wiki and all are available through the display.

 

[jimmyfergus]

What are users of the OSF software doing about their display cables with the alternative displays not using the same connectors as the original? Are you cutting the connector off the original display and soldering that to the new display or is there an option to put a connector compatible with the display on the TSDZ2?

Yep - have to solder the cables together - the wiki has details of the colors to connect.

 

[weatherman]

... I have a problem. ... I've installed TSDZ2, made 260 km, ... Today the engine did not engage. ...

The behavior on the video looks very similar to the way these units respond when they perceives an over-voltage situation, with the factory firmware. Did you happen to charge it just prior to this use? I see from the video that the battery indicator shows full.

While mine does not display this behavior when I run the Flexible Open Source Firmware, it has displayed this behavior since new with the factory firmware. Some have shipped there units back, and they are sent back working fine.

...

Hi windburner, mctubster,

You were correct. After 20 min of walk mode and LCD backlight on, the engine returned to its normal condition.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLS-G9vXZ_QH1f-1-9aR4dUZeckKJkGu/view?usp=drivesdk

So, after you installed the Flexible Open Source Firmware, this over-voltage situation just disappeared?
I dived into the Wiki and tried to find info regarding this issue, but couldn't find any.

Well, I'll wait for the 850C to arrive and then flash the all thing.

Thanks!

 

[mctubster]

... I have a problem. ... I've installed TSDZ2, made 260 km, ... Today the engine did not engage. ...

The behavior on the video looks very similar to the way these units respond when they perceives an over-voltage situation, with the factory firmware. Did you happen to charge it just prior to this use? I see from the video that the battery indicator shows full.

While mine does not display this behavior when I run the Flexible Open Source Firmware, it has displayed this behavior since new with the factory firmware. Some have shipped there units back, and they are sent back working fine.

...

Hi windburner, mctubster,

You were correct. After 20 min of walk mode and LCD backlight on, the engine returned to its normal condition.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLS-G9vXZ_QH1f-1-9aR4dUZeckKJkGu/view?usp=drivesdk

So, after you installed the Flexible Open Source Firmware, this over-voltage situation just disappeared?
I dived into the Wiki and tried to find info regarding this issue, but couldn't find any.

Well, I'll wait for the 850C to arrive and then flash the all thing.

Thanks!

Yes you can configure the OS firmware for different cell counts in the battery pack. It will resolve this issue

 

[windburner]

Hi windburner, mctubster,

You were correct. After 20 min of walk mode and LCD backlight on, the engine returned to its normal condition.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLS-G9vXZ_QH1f-1-9aR4dUZeckKJkGu/view?usp=drivesdk

So, after you installed the Flexible Open Source Firmware, this over-voltage situation just disappeared?

Yes, to my great joy the issue went away when I tried the FOSF v0.19. As best as I can figure it, because the FOSF is 'configurable' voltage-wise, it perhaps overcomes a fixed voltage limitation of the factory firmware. Also, Yes, burning the battery down with the stuttering motor alone does take a bit of time. I was happy to remember I had the headlamp, which made it a lot quicker.

The FOSF has lots to configure, but v0.19 has a bothersome lag on the pedal assist as compared to the factory. It is my understanding that v0.20 has more or less resolved this, but, as a user of the SW102 display, I am presently limited to v0.19, until its v0.20 compatible firmware update is made available.

FYI: I could not access the link provided above due to: Permissions

 

[weatherman]

Hi windburner, mctubster,

You were correct. After 20 min of walk mode and LCD backlight on, the engine returned to its normal condition.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLS-G9vXZ_QH1f-1-9aR4dUZeckKJkGu/view?usp=drivesdk

So, after you installed the Flexible Open Source Firmware, this over-voltage situation just disappeared?

Yes, to my great joy the issue went away when I tried the FOSF v0.19. As best as I can figure it, because the FOSF is 'configurable' voltage-wise, it perhaps overcomes a fixed voltage limitation of the factory firmware. Also, Yes, burning the battery down with the stuttering motor alone does take a bit of time. I was happy to remember I had the headlamp, which made it a lot quicker.

The FOSF has lots to configure, but v0.19 has a bothersome lag on the pedal assist as compared to the factory. It is my understanding that v0.20 has more or less resolved this, but, as a user of the SW102 display, I am presently limited to v0.19, until its v0.20 compatible firmware update is made available.

FYI: I could not access the link provided above due to: Permissions

Yes you can configure the OS firmware for different cell counts in the battery pack. It will resolve this issue

Thank you both. I think I got it.

I've granted access to video.

Best regards

 

[mittkonto]

What are users of the OSF software doing about their display cables with the alternative displays not using the same connectors as the original? Are you cutting the connector off the original display and soldering that to the new display or is there an option to put a connector compatible with the display on the TSDZ2?

Yerp, or like tomtom50 describes here, this is the cable you need: HIGO-Z812-B.

 

[JaiCee]

What are users of the OSF software doing about their display cables with the alternative displays not using the same connectors as the original? Are you cutting the connector off the original display and soldering that to the new display or is there an option to put a connector compatible with the display on the TSDZ2?

Yerp, or like tomtom50 describes here, this is the cable you need: HIGO-Z812-B.

That's interesting. I also noticed that PSWPower sell extensions for the Bafang connector. I might splice the motor cable with the female end of that thus keeping the original display intact.

 

[mittkonto]

What are users of the OSF software doing about their display cables with the alternative displays not using the same connectors as the original? Are you cutting the connector off the original display and soldering that to the new display or is there an option to put a connector compatible with the display on the TSDZ2?

Yerp, or like tomtom50 describes here, this is the cable you need: HIGO-Z812-B.

That's interesting. I also noticed that PSWPower sell extensions for the Bafang connector. I might splice the motor cable with the female end of that thus keeping the original display intact.

Yeah, I thought it would be nice to have the original wiring as-is-intact for diagnostic purposes.

Do however note that bafang has a different pinout, if you are going to have one of those. Non the less it's a good foundation, so one either make an adapter cable for a bafang displays or adapt each display later on.

 

[casainho]

We have new 850C display firmware version: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/Color_LCD/releases/tag/850C_v0.5.0850C_v0.5.0-beta.2

Changelog beta.2:
- corrected issue where throttle would not work even if was activated
- corrected automatic timer off

Changelog beta.1
- automatic detection of the two different known LCDs based on ILI9481 and ST7796 controllers (no more need to configure for each one the axis flip)
- new firmware, with common base shared with SW102
- now user can easily choose the variable to shown on each of the four numeric fields (as also choose the variable shown on the graph)
- some limits are now shown on the graph like motor temperature, with yellow color for a value over min limit and red color over max limit
- warnings on lower text field, when some variables goes over max value
- Configurations menu now have sub menus

These release would not be possible without the recent work of the developers: geeksville, lowPerformer and casainho.

NOTE: this version was developed for the TSDZ2 motor controller firmware v0.19.0 (current stable version).

 

[Waynemarlow]

Has anyone used the latest Eco-bike.com files to update the firmware ( changing our 36 volt units to run on 48 volts ), we used to simply change the 2nd and third pair of bits on line 4000 but they seem to recommend to use their full motor profiles which seems to not use that method as the bits on line 4000 are not relevant to 48 volts or am I reading them wrongly ?

If they are correct then how do we change the amperage max levels or does the sub menu amp levels now work.

Thanks.

 

[sysrq]

Hi all,

OK have done 70KM now. No change in noise profile. Still far too noisy for me. Have read a few tips about greasing the secondary gears (is this the big flywheel being driven by the small cog?) to reduce noise ... and to use Mobilith SHC 100.

I can't seem to find anywhere to purchase Mobilith SHC 100 in Australia, at least for the average consumer ... any other recommendations for grease?

Could someone who is out there who feels they have an almost silent TSDZ2 please record a quick video and post to youtube. I'm trying to work out if mine is a bad build or they are generally the same and "silent" is subjective.

Thanks a lot
Steve

Seems like mine has a change in noise profile after every 300km which manifests as a growling more similar to the earlier version with spur gear. Had to regrease again with the same Lucas Red'n Tacky. I wonder if some semi-fluid grease could work better without seeping trough the bearing on to the primary reduction gear if gravity could keep it around the pinion gear.

 

[LeftCoastNurd]

2. cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length. Connectors can fail more after some time, based on my experience with TSDZ2 on few family ebikes, so, I avoid connectors. And I prefer to have cables with right length so installation is more clean.

are there pinout diagrams for the various component connectors ?

 

[sysrq]

Hi all,

OK have done 70KM now. No change in noise profile. Still far too noisy for me. Have read a few tips about greasing the secondary gears (is this the big flywheel being driven by the small cog?) to reduce noise ... and to use Mobilith SHC 100.

I can't seem to find anywhere to purchase Mobilith SHC 100 in Australia, at least for the average consumer ... any other recommendations for grease?

Could someone who is out there who feels they have an almost silent TSDZ2 please record a quick video and post to youtube. I'm trying to work out if mine is a bad build or they are generally the same and "silent" is subjective.

Thanks a lot
Steve

Seems like mine has a change in noise profile after every 300km which manifests as a growling more similar to the earlier version with spur gear. Had to regrease again with the same Lucas Red'n Tacky. I wonder if some semi-fluid grease could work better without seeping trough the bearing on to the primary reduction gear if gravity could keep it around the pinion gear.

 

[casainho]

2. cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length. Connectors can fail more after some time, based on my experience with TSDZ2 on few family ebikes, so, I avoid connectors. And I prefer to have cables with right length so installation is more clean.

are there pinout diagrams for the various component connectors ?

On the wiki.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Has anyone used the latest Eco-bike.com files to update the firmware ( changing our 36 volt units to run on 48 volts ), we used to simply change the 2nd and third pair of bits on line 4000 but they seem to recommend to use their full motor profiles which seems to not use that method as the bits on line 4000 are not relevant to 48 volts or am I reading them wrongly ?

If they are correct then how do we change the amperage max levels or does the sub menu amp levels now work.

Thanks.

Just if anybody goes this route ( 48volt really suits this 36volt motor as standard and almost totally cures the cadence problem for more experienced riders ) I downloaded and reprogrammed my 36volt motor with the files from Eco-bikes and I have to say that they must be set up as the default 250W Euro legal amperages.

Its easily changed as in the Data Memory tab of the programmer if you change the second and third series of numbers on the line 4000 you can enter 77 or 78 ( 48 volts ) and what ever amperage you like in the third series. In my case I have used 12 ( 12 amps ) to give a bit of a 550W boost on max but not enough to really stress the motor. The other thing to consider is this overall amperage seems to dictate the levels of each step on the controls as it would feel like that each step is a percentage of the overall. Riding with non ebikers if step 1 is not enough but step 2 is too much assistance then lower the top value and you will be able to use the 2nd step.

But I have a question, the first number in the line of numbers is set at 59 in the Eco-bikes file and yet my old 48 volt motor has it set at 50, does anybody know what that first number does ?

So in brief, download the 48volt hex file from Eco-bikes.com and look at the DataMemory tab and you will see 59 77 00 plus all the other numbers at 00. I changed mine to 59 78 12 which gives me; not sure:48volt:12amps. Seems to work well but I wish I knew what the first line of numbers corresponds to.

 

[sysrq]

08 2019 10:10pm

1) As regards the TSDZ2 motor itself are there more recent revisions, and if so, what should I look for to get the most recent version?

Motor revision 1 (2017-2018, 2019?) Straight cut main gear / spur gear, Silver spider, Black spider? Main gear plastic cover has 3 screws, Original weather seals
Motor revision 2 (2018? 2019-) Helical cut main gear / spur gear (should be quieter), Black spider, Main gear plastic cover has 4 screws, Better weather seals

My other questions have mostly to do with which display to order to install the firmware on. As stated earlier I need this to be as stable and user friendly as possible for a non technical family member.

2) What is the current best device for installing the firmware? (I am on a bit of a budget, so would like to avoid the 850c as it is more expensive both for the device and for the bootloader box, which together add well over $100 to the build. However if that is the best option, so be it.)

TBH right now it remains the KT LCD3 with STLINK. You can run the latest firmware which is very feature rich and stable (0.20). I don't believe you would need to upgrade again. If you want eventual Strava integration the SW102, but this could be some time.

4) Will the LCD3 continue to be developed, and what are it's limitations?

Memory. Currently no s/w limitations, multipoint torque sensor calibration in the future could be missing and new features not yet thought of. The display has great visibility, and seems pretty weather proof.

5) My other thought was the SW102, as it is smaller and cheaper than the 850c and uses the same STv2 programming cable. Is the Firmware for this device at a stable point?

No not currently. Wireless flashing still in progress, firmware itself a work in progress.

And a few questions about the motor install itself.

6) I'm installing on a road bike, a specialized carbon frame. Are there any particular problems with installing this more onto a road racing style frame?

Yes potentially. Carbon frames will have a lot of material around the bottom bracket. Generally too much to fit the TSDZ2

8) Lastly, considering we do some touring in Colorado, how well does the motor handle sustained climbing for say an hour or more? What settings would be best for this scenario?

You would want to limit the power to 200-300 watts unless you do a cooling mod. TBH that is enough it is more than double what a fit person can output themselves

Mine has a black spider, helical secondary gear and only three plastic cover screws.

 

[RicMcK]

08 2019 10:10pm

1) As regards the TSDZ2 motor itself are there more recent revisions, and if so, what should I look for to get the most recent version?

Motor revision 1 (2017-2018, 2019?) Straight cut main gear / spur gear, Silver spider, Black spider? Main gear plastic cover has 3 screws, Original weather seals
Motor revision 2 (2018? 2019-) Helical cut main gear / spur gear (should be quieter), Black spider, Main gear plastic cover has 4 screws, Better weather seals

My other questions have mostly to do with which display to order to install the firmware on. As stated earlier I need this to be as stable and user friendly as possible for a non technical family member.

2) What is the current best device for installing the firmware? (I am on a bit of a budget, so would like to avoid the 850c as it is more expensive both for the device and for the bootloader box, which together add well over $100 to the build. However if that is the best option, so be it.)

TBH right now it remains the KT LCD3 with STLINK. You can run the latest firmware which is very feature rich and stable (0.20). I don't believe you would need to upgrade again. If you want eventual Strava integration the SW102, but this could be some time.

4) Will the LCD3 continue to be developed, and what are it's limitations?

Memory. Currently no s/w limitations, multipoint torque sensor calibration in the future could be missing and new features not yet thought of. The display has great visibility, and seems pretty weather proof.

5) My other thought was the SW102, as it is smaller and cheaper than the 850c and uses the same STv2 programming cable. Is the Firmware for this device at a stable point?

No not currently. Wireless flashing still in progress, firmware itself a work in progress.

And a few questions about the motor install itself.

6) I'm installing on a road bike, a specialized carbon frame. Are there any particular problems with installing this more onto a road racing style frame?

Yes potentially. Carbon frames will have a lot of material around the bottom bracket. Generally too much to fit the TSDZ2

8) Lastly, considering we do some touring in Colorado, how well does the motor handle sustained climbing for say an hour or more? What settings would be best for this scenario?

You would want to limit the power to 200-300 watts unless you do a cooling mod. TBH that is enough it is more than double what a fit person can output themselves

Mine has a black spider, helical secondary gear and only three plastic cover screws.

For more BB installation clearance remove the motor cover as there are 2 fasteners that get in the way. Once you have it slid in reinstall the cover. I highly recommend doing a cooling mod. The one I did works great. Search this thread for my posts and there is a pdf attached. The mod is easy to do.
RicMcK Seattle.

 

[Aquakitty]

Did some extensive testing of the SW102 and it works flawlessly so far. The only weird issue is if you have the brake on when turning on the motor, you get "motor not found" error.

Another thing is I think having a throttle is the way to go mountain biking. It allows you to have easy access to "walk assist" and if something goes wrong with the torque sensing (or your speed sensor) you have a backup. Also, I find the "startup boost" is not ideal for real mountain biking, at least if you aren't using brakes, because the boost engages during shifts after a downhill, which is usually at the bottom of a hill, so you get a lot of rough shifting under motor power, if that makes sense. I think a throttle for boost when you are trying to start on a hill is superior to using the boost feature. Boost is good for road riding/red lights etc. though.

A push-button boost or walk feature would be nice (then you wouldn't need a throttle).

Another thing I noticed is this whole time I've been running underpowered. The stock firmware set my displays at 5 assist settings, but did not change the ratios accordingly. My ratios on every bike were set at 2.5 or something, whatever 9 has for 5, rather than changing the ratios to 4.8 and down like 9 has. No wonder I noticed the stock firmware was more powerful!

 

[casainho]

Did some extensive testing of the SW102 and it works flawlessly so far. The only weird issue is if you have the brake on when turning on the motor, you get "motor not found" error.

Yes but that is an issue on the motor firmware as it does not start up until you release the brakes.

Another thing is I think having a throttle is the way to go mountain biking. It allows you to have easy access to "walk assist" and if something goes wrong with the torque sensing (or your speed sensor) you have a backup.

Yes, I already thought on having a virtual throttle, something like the walk assist.

I already got my PAS broken while riding and I also received a new motor with broken torque sensor. This should be solved with V0.20.x firmware because it has PAS only and torque sensor only modes, so one of the sensors is not needed. Still I did not tested yet V0.20.x but I hope it works like that, at least was what I had in mind but I don´t know If Buba implemented with this in mind, because this was never mentioned about V0.20.x.

I think a throttle for boost when you are trying to start on a hill is superior to using the boost feature. Boost is good for road riding/red lights etc. though.

About boost for MTB, don´t forget that torque sensor work mostly as a PAS sensor and so you don´t get a boost when you pedal hard at startup. My ebikes are running a V0.19.x firmware version with torque sensor calibration and I can get easily max power assistance from the motor at startup!! My calibrated torque sensor can measure values up to 1000 watts of human power while no calibrated can measure up like only 250 watts of human power, so, with a 1.0 assist level factor, I can get the power boost at startup if I rise my bum from the saddle at startup

SW102 and 850C should very soon support V0.20.x, and we need to make a stable release also, seems there are no big issues with it although some issues like increased backward resistance and startup power boost feature was removed -- something to solve next.

 

[dameri]

Did some extensive testing of the SW102 and it works flawlessly so far. The only weird issue is if you have the brake on when turning on the motor, you get "motor not found" error.

Yes but that is an issue on the motor firmware as it does not start up until you release the brakes.

Another thing is I think having a throttle is the way to go mountain biking. It allows you to have easy access to "walk assist" and if something goes wrong with the torque sensing (or your speed sensor) you have a backup.

Yes, I already thought on having a virtual throttle, something like the walk assist.

I already got my PAS broken while riding and I also received a new motor with broken torque sensor. This should be solved with V0.20.x firmware because it has PAS only and torque sensor only modes, so one of the sensors is not needed. Still I did not tested yet V0.20.x but I hope it works like that, at least was what I had in mind but I don´t know If Buba implemented with this in mind, because this was never mentioned about V0.20.x.

I think a throttle for boost when you are trying to start on a hill is superior to using the boost feature. Boost is good for road riding/red lights etc. though.

About boost for MTB, don´t forget that torque sensor work mostly as a PAS sensor and so you don´t get a boost when you pedal hard at startup. My ebikes are running a V0.19.x firmware version with torque sensor calibration and I can get easily max power assistance from the motor at startup!! My calibrated torque sensor can measure values up to 1000 watts of human power while no calibrated can measure up like only 250 watts of human power, so, with a 1.0 assist level factor, I can get the power boost at startup if I rise my bum from the saddle at startup

SW102 and 850C should very soon support V0.20.x, and we need to make a stable release also, seems there are no big issues with it although some issues like increased backward resistance and startup power boost feature was removed -- something to solve next.

This is nice to hear. Very big thanks for the developers.