New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[cavi]

TSDZ2 rider max weight

I just added this important piece of information to TSDZ2 FAQ -- see the pictures bellow showing the torque sensor central tubular axle broken!!

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/FAQ#Rider_max_weight

TSDZ2 rider max weight

TSDZ2 should work well for riders up to 100 kgs. For higher values like 110 kgs, it will also work but it is recommended to avoid doing big impulses (put full rider weight on the pedals) and with high gear, at startup, to avoid the risk of broking the torque sensor.

Casainho wrote: After using TSDZ2 for more than 2 years (since begin of 2018), on different bicycles and with different TSDZ2 motors, doing both MTB and city commuting, with my weight around 105 kgs, I never had a problem.
On 2020, my weight increased to 111 kgs and one day at city I did a big impulse at start pedaling, while I was standing on the pedals with a high gear, the central tubular shaft of the torque sensor broke doing a big cracking noise. Everything went back to normal after I exchanged for a new torque sensor and now I will avoid to do that big impulses on the pedals and with high gear.

Sorry, the issue is not your weight, it is how you are riding the bike. These are still not electric motorcycles, they are assisted bikes. This means that you have to still treat it as a bike. If you are coming to a stop, downshift and take off in the correct gear. Same as a car with a stick shift. You do not try and take off in 3rd gear, it is bad for the transmission and bad for the clutch. Same here, use the gears appropriately and you probably will not have as many issues. Also swap out your crank arms for shorter ones you will put less strain on the system.

 

[cavi]

soo I am basically ready to buy a motor, and I see many vendors, and a couple of them offering motors with the OSF which is what I want. Are any of the vendors main people on this site that I should favor? Who is the most helpful? Feel free to leave a couple of names.
Thanks.

For whatever it's worth, I recently ordered a blue gear and new 36v motor on two separate occasions from eco-cycles: www.eco-ebike.com
and each order came within 2 days and the prices seem fair for a U.S seller.

I buy all my parts from,
https://www.electrifybike.com/store/c38/TSDZ2_Open_Source_Firmware_%28OSF%29_Upgrade_Products.html#/

that is who I have been chatting with!!!

 

[casainho]

TSDZ2 rider max weight

I just added this important piece of information to TSDZ2 FAQ -- see the pictures bellow showing the torque sensor central tubular axle broken!!

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/FAQ#Rider_max_weight

TSDZ2 rider max weight

TSDZ2 should work well for riders up to 100 kgs. For higher values like 110 kgs, it will also work but it is recommended to avoid doing big impulses (put full rider weight on the pedals) and with high gear, at startup, to avoid the risk of broking the torque sensor.

Casainho wrote: After using TSDZ2 for more than 2 years (since begin of 2018), on different bicycles and with different TSDZ2 motors, doing both MTB and city commuting, with my weight around 105 kgs, I never had a problem.
On 2020, my weight increased to 111 kgs and one day at city I did a big impulse at start pedaling, while I was standing on the pedals with a high gear, the central tubular shaft of the torque sensor broke doing a big cracking noise. Everything went back to normal after I exchanged for a new torque sensor and now I will avoid to do that big impulses on the pedals and with high gear.

Sorry, the issue is not your weight, it is how you are riding the bike. These are still not electric motorcycles, they are assisted bikes. This means that you have to still treat it as a bike. If you are coming to a stop, downshift and take off in the correct gear. Same as a car with a stick shift. You do not try and take off in 3rd gear, it is bad for the transmission and bad for the clutch. Same here, use the gears appropriately and you probably will not have as many issues. Also swap out your crank arms for shorter ones you will put less strain on the system.

Thanks for commenting.

The part that broke is not pulled by the motor anyway, it is the torque sensor tubular axle that transmites the pedals force to the chainring and also flexes with the force I do on the pedals.

 

[cavi]

TSDZ2 rider max weight

I just added this important piece of information to TSDZ2 FAQ -- see the pictures bellow showing the torque sensor central tubular axle broken!!

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/FAQ#Rider_max_weight

TSDZ2 rider max weight

TSDZ2 should work well for riders up to 100 kgs. For higher values like 110 kgs, it will also work but it is recommended to avoid doing big impulses (put full rider weight on the pedals) and with high gear, at startup, to avoid the risk of broking the torque sensor.

Casainho wrote: After using TSDZ2 for more than 2 years (since begin of 2018), on different bicycles and with different TSDZ2 motors, doing both MTB and city commuting, with my weight around 105 kgs, I never had a problem.
On 2020, my weight increased to 111 kgs and one day at city I did a big impulse at start pedaling, while I was standing on the pedals with a high gear, the central tubular shaft of the torque sensor broke doing a big cracking noise. Everything went back to normal after I exchanged for a new torque sensor and now I will avoid to do that big impulses on the pedals and with high gear.

Sorry, the issue is not your weight, it is how you are riding the bike. These are still not electric motorcycles, they are assisted bikes. This means that you have to still treat it as a bike. If you are coming to a stop, downshift and take off in the correct gear. Same as a car with a stick shift. You do not try and take off in 3rd gear, it is bad for the transmission and bad for the clutch. Same here, use the gears appropriately and you probably will not have as many issues. Also swap out your crank arms for shorter ones you will put less strain on the system.

Thanks for commenting.

The part that broke is not pulled by the motor anyway, it is the torque sensor tubular axle that transmites the pedals force to the chainring and also flexes with the force I do on the pedals.

then deffinitly shorter crank arms will help you as the shorter the crank arms the less pressure you will be able to put on it, laws of mechanics. loook for the lekkie buzz bars they can be had in 165mm, or even shorter if you go for bmx crank arms

 

[casainho]

then deffinitly shorter crank arms will help you as the shorter the crank arms the less pressure you will be able to put on it, laws of mechanics. loook for the lekkie buzz bars they can be had in 165mm, or even shorter if you go for bmx crank arms

For my height, I am using the correct length of the arm cranks: 170mm. Also is the same length as the ones that were the originals of this bicycle with frame size L.

So again, I think I hit the TSDZ2 rider weight limit of probably around 110kgs.

 

[knutselmaaster]

It seems that the different voltage versions of the motor use the same ampere.
Like 36v = 350w and 48v = 500w, approximately both do 10A.
I haven't seen a 48v 350w motor.
So the temperature values will be the same but the effective power of the 48v version is about 33% higher.
I might be wrong though.

I have a 48v 250w


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Hence, m'y theory has fallen.
Could you please tell me where did you find that?

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?cdkit#tsdz2


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It seems that the seller only state the 250w nominal stuff for legal purposes.
It probably isn't the real power.
Like Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha, Bafang, Brose, etc.
All indicated as 250W nominal but neither of those really is 250W.
(Just check how fast these motors can empty a battery to realise that they consume way over 250w)
The max power indication of the TSDZ2 (indicated by the manufacturer and most sellers) is closer to the effective max power, the one that can be measured and calculated by volt X ampere.

 

[truongap]

Here in Boston we just had the hottest July on record, so I took it upon myself to do a thermal management mod for the TSDZ2. I was routinely having to dial back my assist usage to stay below 75C on my 23 mile (37km) round trip commute so I decided I would do something about the TSDZ2's awful thermal management (Love the motor overall though).

What I ended up doing was two things...

-I filled the air gap around the motor with a thermally conductive silicone pad so that it now has something to shed the heat to the outer casing other than a not very thermally conductive pocket of air.

-I attached some aluminum fins to the casing of the TSDZ2 so it will cool down quicker. To do this I sanded down the casing to the bare aluminum and then attached some aluminum electronics heatsinks with a thermally conductive epoxy. These work very well as there is constantly air flowing by the bike as it moves along.

Can I have links to your silicone pad and aluminum fins?

 

[Elinx]

......
Can I have links to your silicone pad and aluminum fins?

If you read a bit further you can see that he used cheap 2mm pads of Ebay. The aluminium finns are bended and glued heatsinks

You can find also a lot of solutions and links in the " Hardware temperature control tsdz2 " topic
I have tried there to collect most mentioned solutions of the different topics.

 

[vlvuk]

Hello all,

I built two TSDZ2 e-bykes, first with 850C display, second one - with OSF adapded for VLCD5.
I ride first byke since December last year with firmware v. 0.6.7, everything was Ok.
Now it is not assisting and I can't understand why.

I updated firmware to latest one 1.0.0 alfa4, motor run by throttle and still not assisting when I push pedals.
One strande thing which I noticed - zero value of Cadence, all other parameters seems Ok.

On Technical page I see that
- ADC Torque sensor has 158 when zero weight and it increasing during pushing pedal
- Trottle sensor increasing when I push throttle
- Pedal cadence is zero and not changing when I rotate pedals
- Hall sensor changing numders when I push my byke backwards and not changing when I rotate pedals forward.

Motor works from throttle and when walk assist activated.

Strange things is when I returned from my last ride everything was Ok, then I decided to update OSF and got this results. I tryed to update OSF several times to different versions with no effect.

I would appreciate for any advise!

 

[casainho]

I updated firmware to latest one 1.0.0 alfa4, motor run by throttle and still not assisting when I push pedals.
One strande thing which I noticed - zero value of Cadence, all other parameters seems Ok.

On Technical page I see that
- ADC Torque sensor has 158 when zero weight and it increasing during pushing pedal
- Trottle sensor increasing when I push throttle
- Pedal cadence is zero and not changing when I rotate pedals
- Hall sensor changing numders when I push my byke backwards and not changing when I rotate pedals forward.

Motor works from throttle and when walk assist activated.

Strange things is when I returned from my last ride everything was Ok, then I decided to update OSF and got this results. I tryed to update OSF several times to different versions with no effect.

I would appreciate for any advise!

You already know the reason but I think you wish to listen a different thing. You know that the cadence sensor is not working anymore!!

You did well understanding and looking at the Technical configurations menu on 850C display and you found the reason - it is the cadence sensor that is dead. Go to the wiki TSDZ2 FAQ and see the information about the cadence sensor and why it can get dead - now you need, probably, to buy a new motor controller but I would try to check why it failed to avoid the same in future - see the FAQ, I bet it was the same reason that did happen to me.

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/FAQ

 

[vlvuk]

Hello Casainho, thank you for fast reply.
May be you right, I only had little hope it is unknown ug or configuration mistake.
Could you give me info what cadence sensor is? May be I can repair or replace it instead of buying new controller?
Do you know what each wire mean? If it hall sensor, is it analogue or digital? Do you know voltage output?
Before buying new controller, I want to try all possibilities.

 

[vlvuk]

I ordered separate PAS sensor from aliexpress for 1 USD and dual hall sensor VF526DT, will try to replace broken hall element in TSDZ2 sensor.

If I right, in our controller there is two hall elements integrated in one unit - one for direction, other for cadence.
So we have 4 wire: ground, +5V, Signal1, Signal2.
It theory should be easy to take Signal1/2 (or both) from separate hall sensor(s) or replace it by 4-wired hall sensor.

 

[hetm4n]

Which version of the 850c software is the most stable? I'm uploading a friend but he doesn't want the latest version yet. he lives for 600 km and with any errors it is not possible to come and reprogram

 

[jeff.page.rides]

New firmware: TSDZ2 cadence increase from 90 to 120 RPM as also motor power "amplification" on this same high cadence

You guys get ready for the most advanced and powerful TSDZ2 firmware!!

The big new feature on this version 1.0.0 is the "amplification" of cadence and motor power in the range from 80 to 120RPM!! previous, the motor power would start to decrease at around cadence 80 and be zero at 90, meaning no motor assistance at all over cadence 90RPM. Now, you will get assistance all way up to cadence 120RPM.
Note that this considers a battery with the same voltage as the motor, like a 36V battery with a 36V motor or 48V battery with 48V motor. Even in the cases of using a 48V battery with 36V motor, the cadence is still increased up to 120RPM with most possible optimized efficiency.

This is the first time I made the version as 1.0.0 because all major features about TSDZ2 motor control are now implemented like FOC and Field Weakening. Also on the display side, I don't plan any new big changes.
There certainly features that can be added in future versions like 1.1.0 and polish the current ones, and I plan to do that.

Changelog from previous stable release v0.8.0:
- increase motor assistance as also pedal cadence up to 120RPM (previous limit was around 85RPM) and for this was need to:
-- UART communications frequency is increased twice to save the processing time needed to implement following points
-- increased PWM frequency from 15.6kHz to 19 kHz
-- implement Field Weakening
-- configuration to enable/disable Field Weakening as it brings a loss of efficiency at high cadence value over 90RPM, possible a loss of 25%
- added coast brake ADC sensitivity configuration: the TSDZ2 coast brake version should now fully work on this firmware version
- added configuration for cadence fast stop mode, which is enabled by default. Enable for regular bicycles and disable for some full suspension bicycles
- ebike control loop now runs at twice the frequency in the hope to make system a bit more responsive (tested by vshitikov)
- added Wh/km variable to be shown on custom fields and also on the graph

Download and follow the full instructions here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/Color_LCD/releases/tag/860C_850C_SW102_v1.0.0-alpha.4

I just tried the new Alpha 4 on my wife's bike with her 850C.
I have to say it's the best firmware we've ever used on an 850C!

 

[MikeSSS]

Need some TSDZ2 advice, to see if it's right for me. I've been riding a direct drive front hub motor conversion rigid bike since 2014, it works really well for street and bike path, but now I want a better suspended ride and also want to ride the Moab Practice Loop as a one time bucket list ride. Most riding is in San Antonio, TX, it's around 100 degF in the summer here, but climbs are short and gentle.

Rider and use: I'm 73, 195 lb, pedal seated between 50 and 100 watts, mostly 70 to 80 rpm, motor epower is added using the throttle, I don't have PAS, charging a climb is probably more like pedaling at 120 watts and 90 rpm plus using some epower. Road speed is between 13 and 19 mph, typical is 15 or 16 mph, in 593 miles average speed has been 12.5 mph, average distance 17.4 miles, average electric watts 178, average amps 3.7. My rides include many slow bits while passing others. Battery used is a 18650 Panasonic GA cell, 13s, 4p, carried in a rear rack bag. Motor is an un-sensored front direct drive motor. Fast riding was 25 years ago, now the bike is used as sort of a mule when off road and as a bike on road and path. Both 36v and 48v batteries are used. Off road, steep rocky climbs are done walking next to the bike, using throttle to advance the bike, then brakes are held while I walk forward to mid bike and the process is repeated. Descending is done the same way, but without epower. That said, most riding will be bike path here in SA, but I do want to ride Moab and want some motor assist when walking the bike through difficult climbs and technical stuff.

Mid drives ridden have been Bosch, Bafang Ultra and BBSHD. The Bosch was torque pas only with no throttle. The Bafang Ultra had both torque pas and throttle. The BBSHD had cadence pas and throttle. To me the Bosch and Bafang Ultra worked very well, though only the Ultra could be used for my off road climbing style. A Bosch equipped bike would require manually pushing a 50lb bike up steep climbs and through technical bits, that's no fun. The BBSHD had some serious control problems that rule it out.

Host bike will be a 26" full suspension bike I already have, it 7 speed and right now three in the front. The power unit may be used on other bikes as well. Bottom Brackets will be 68-73mm.

I'm looking at this TSDZ2:

https://www.eco-ebike.com/collectio...ttle-and-e-brakes-36v-48v-52v-10-18a-250-750w

Using pedal power and epower via throttle at the same time is a requirement, torque sensor pas would be very nice to have. Cadence pas is not wanted. Walking assist via throttle or some other way is a requirement. Fine power control using the throttle is very important, I have it now and want to continue having it.

Will the TSDZ2 be right for my use? Comments and advice will be very helpful.

Thanks,

Mike S in San Antonio, TX

 

[vshitikov]

Hello. Could someone tell why my motor start having a little wobble in the botom bracket. The motor is new and only has few hundred kilometers on it. Motor shaft is slightly moving. What is the problem? Is it the bearings? Motor itself is well attached and cranks are properly bolted. How to repair?

 

[Elinx]

Hello. Could someone tell why my motor start having a little wobble ......How to repair?

That wobble is a wellknown problem of this motor with Chinese tolerances. The axle is a bit too thin for the bearings.
Here I have shared some links for a solution, with adding a second bearing and some thin metal sheet.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

Need some TSDZ2 advice, to see if it's right for me. I've been riding a direct drive front hub motor conversion rigid bike since 2014, it works really well for street and bike path, but now I want a better suspended ride and also want to ride the Moab Practice Loop as a one time bucket list ride. Most riding is in San Antonio, TX, it's around 100 degF in the summer here, but climbs are short and gentle.

Rider and use: I'm 73, 195 lb, pedal seated between 50 and 100 watts, mostly 70 to 80 rpm, motor epower is added using the throttle, I don't have PAS, charging a climb is probably more like pedaling at 120 watts and 90 rpm plus using some epower. Road speed is between 13 and 19 mph, typical is 15 or 16 mph, in 593 miles average speed has been 12.5 mph, average distance 17.4 miles, average electric watts 178, average amps 3.7. My rides include many slow bits while passing others. Battery used is a 18650 Panasonic GA cell, 13s, 4p, carried in a rear rack bag. Motor is an un-sensored front direct drive motor. Fast riding was 25 years ago, now the bike is used as sort of a mule when off road and as a bike on road and path. Both 36v and 48v batteries are used. Off road, steep rocky climbs are done walking next to the bike, using throttle to advance the bike, then brakes are held while I walk forward to mid bike and the process is repeated. Descending is done the same way, but without epower. That said, most riding will be bike path here in SA, but I do want to ride Moab and want some motor assist when walking the bike through difficult climbs and technical stuff.

Mid drives ridden have been Bosch, Bafang Ultra and BBSHD. The Bosch was torque pas only with no throttle. The Bafang Ultra had both torque pas and throttle. The BBSHD had cadence pas and throttle. To me the Bosch and Bafang Ultra worked very well, though only the Ultra could be used for my off road climbing style. A Bosch equipped bike would require manually pushing a 50lb bike up steep climbs and through technical bits, that's no fun. The BBSHD had some serious control problems that rule it out.

Host bike will be a 26" full suspension bike I already have, it 7 speed and right now three in the front. The power unit may be used on other bikes as well. Bottom Brackets will be 68-73mm.

I'm looking at this TSDZ2:

https://www.eco-ebike.com/collectio...ttle-and-e-brakes-36v-48v-52v-10-18a-250-750w

Using pedal power and epower via throttle at the same time is a requirement, torque sensor pas would be very nice to have. Cadence pas is not wanted. Walking assist via throttle or some other way is a requirement. Fine power control using the throttle is very important, I have it now and want to continue having it.

Will the TSDZ2 be right for my use? Comments and advice will be very helpful.

Thanks,

Mike S in San Antonio, TX

Hi, Mike all include the links to what I would do, and what parts I would buy. It sounds like you already have batteries so all you need is a motor kit and a display pre-flashed with Alpha 4 or newer depending on when your parts ship.
You may also want brake sensors, and a power extension cable to your batteries with the ends to plug into your batteries.
You will be able to use both 36V and 48V batteries, but the settings will need to be changed to match the battery you are using. I would buy a 48V motor it should run cooler, also you would be better off doing the heat fix. I skip step 2.
Jeff

It will definitely simplify your Riding Experience and make it Much Better.

https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p151/TSDZ2-OSF-Upgrade-Motor.html

https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p158/860C.html

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788=1&view=unread#p1553536

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/How-to-improve-motor-heat-dissipation

 

[curcumin]

Does anybody know who stocks the rubber gasket for the main gear cover? I have the old style one with 3 screws. I checked all the usual suspects and nobody lists that item. Also, the cover itself seems to be for sale, but none of the listings say the gasket is included.
thanks

 

[Retrorockit]

[/quote]
then deffinitly shorter crank arms will help you as the shorter the crank arms the less pressure you will be able to put on it, laws of mechanics. loook for the lekkie buzz bars they can be had in 165mm, or even shorter if you go for bmx crank arms
[/quote]
The Shimano E5000 crank arms come in 165mm and are very inexpensive.

 

[Darkerside]

Gratuitous photo of the newly electrified bike...

Question: in the first 250km (very hilly km, admittedly), it's developed the apparently fairly common axle/main cog wobble. I've seen a couple of posts about shimming the axle - is there an exploded diagram of how this all fits together?

Bought from a UK seller, so really keen not to lose that warranty by taking it apart unless I know exactly how it goes back together!

Example of wobble: https://youtu.be/NjgzVGr5JRI

 

[fireflyer451]

Battery Voltage Display on 850c - how to adjust/tune this?

I've probably missed this somewhere in the configuration, but just not sure. My 850c display reads about .5 volts higher than two different multimeters I've used to test this.

Is there a place in the configuration settings to adjust the 850c displayed voltage to be more accurate?

Thanks

 

[ilu]

Question: in the first 250km (very hilly km, admittedly), it's developed the apparently fairly common axle/main cog wobble. I've seen a couple of posts about shimming the axle - is there an exploded diagram of how this all fits together?

Bought from a UK seller, so really keen not to lose that warranty by taking it apart unless I know exactly how it goes back together!

Example of wobble: https://youtu.be/NjgzVGr5JRI

Good looking bike! What is that thing on the rear rack?

Check the attachment for the instructions.

 

[Darkerside]

Thanks Ilu; it's a sprung base mount for a Hamax Caress childseat.

To describe exactly what I can feel:

I can feel no lateral movement in the axle (ie nothing at all on the green axis). There's slight rock in the cranks (blue axis - not enough to see, but I can feel it bump when I push and pull it), and a good mm of play on the cog (red) - I can see it rock side to side when I rock it.

Those instructions look like they would fix play on green, but not my blue and red?

Cheers

Rob

 

[ilu]

Those instructions look like they would fix play on green, but not my blue and red?

Cheers

Rob

You can put another 6902 bearing on the left side of the axle, like in the picture below (taken from the OSF FAQ depicting older vs newer axle type). This stabilizes the axle to some degree, although did not eliminate the play completely for me. Also make sure the lockring on the drive side, below the chainring spider, is properly seated. I had a loose lockring on a new motor that lead to increasing wobble of the chainring.