New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[gaber]

Hey Andy, quick side question. In the photo of your lengthy (and great) response, I noticed you’re utilizing a nice headlight. It looks like the headlight wire goes up to the cockpit, but I don’t see a return wire going down.

How do you have that wired in? Am i just missing the wire going back towards the motor and battery?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Gabe,

the cable that goes up is a remote for the light. The light is not a battery light, it is a hub dynamo light. the bike already came with a hub dynamo, so i did not see a reason to remove that...after all, all that is left from the original bike are the frame, the seat post and the 2 wheels....seriously..even the tyres are different ones.

https://www.bumm.de/en/products/dynamo-scheinwerfer/produkt/179u.html?

Ah, nice! That explains why the power cable is all nicely hidden. I've been looking at the busch + muller lights for a longer term solution (phase 1 is cheap aliexpress lights). The look super nice.

 

[Ron Paul's Blimp]

Hope that helps..
JB

I will try to answer "from what I know" and if someone sees that i am writing BS, pls. correct me...

Insanely helpful; thank both of you so much. Is it necessary to use the speed sensor in normal operation? I'm going for a minimalist build with this one and don't really need to know my speed, so if the controller doesn't throw a fit if it's not hooked up, then it sounds like I could just use the one that comes with the kit to sacrifice to make the programming cable. And if I understand you right andyme, if I have no need for the stock display that comes with the kit, I can just cut the connector off of it and solder it onto the KT-LCD3? No additional sacrificial cables needed?

Looking at eco-bikes product page for the motor, they have an "overdrive" version. What's that? Have they just changed the max cadence in the firmware similar to what you can do with the open-source firmware?

E: About the crank thing, I ride a BBS02 now and haven't noticed anything weird about offset, though I'm using the Shimano e-bike cranks. I wonder if they're compensated too?

 

[andyme]

Hope that helps..
JB

I will try to answer "from what I know" and if someone sees that i am writing BS, pls. correct me...

Insanely helpful; thank both of you so much. Is it necessary to use the speed sensor in normal operation? I'm going for a minimalist build with this one and don't really need to know my speed, so if the controller doesn't throw a fit if it's not hooked up, then it sounds like I could just use the one that comes with the kit to sacrifice to make the programming cable. And if I understand you right andyme, if I have no need for the stock display that comes with the kit, I can just cut the connector off of it and solder it onto the KT-LCD3? No additional sacrificial cables needed?

Looking at eco-bikes product page for the motor, they have an "overdrive" version. What's that? Have they just changed the max cadence in the firmware similar to what you can do with the open-source firmware?

E: About the crank thing, I ride a BBS02 now and haven't noticed anything weird about offset, though I'm using the Shimano e-bike cranks. I wonder if they're compensated too?

Yes, you need the speed sensor, it is crucial for the operation.
Yes, you can use the cable/connector of the stock display.

Especially for you i removed the mantle from a spare speed sensor that i bought. As opposed to the speed sensor that came with my motor last year, this one has a yellow plug and instead of just 2 wires it contains 6....so this is the one i should have had right away, it would have saved me from some trouble...so what i recommend you do: get yourself this speed sensor. I got it from recycles ebikes. In any case double check that the plug will be yellow, then you should be on the safe side...View attachment 1

In case your stock speed sensor should already be of this type, you could cut the cable in the middle and add connectors on both sides and also to the cable of the st-link and this way you could use the cable of the speed sensor for either speed sensing or for programming. but i don't think this is worth it...you will spend more time and money adapting 3 connectors plus it will look ugly..

As far as the offset is concerned: have a look at your bike from both sides: is the orange distance about the same on the left and on the right when you turn the cranks backwards? In my case it now is, but i had to remove a lot of material from my right crank...

 

[casainho]

Current status of the OpenSource firmware for Bafang 850C color display that will work with TSDZ2 running our OpenSource firmware:
[youtube]vdrahPO7ZVA[/youtube]

The way I flash/debug the firmware on development, using cheap STLinkV2 clone -- the same tools used for develop/flash TSDZ2 and KT-LCD3:

 

[gaber]

Stupid question I've been curious about for a while - in a lot of your photos I see you using tape. Is there a special kind of clear tape, or is that just packing tape? Also curious if the tape you said you used in the temp sensor install is some type of special heat resistant tape, or again, just packing tape.

 

[casainho]

Stupid question I've been curious about for a while - in a lot of your photos I see you using tape. Is there a special kind of clear tape, or is that just packing tape? Also curious if the tape you said you used in the temp sensor install is some type of special heat resistant tape, or again, just packing tape.

That is clear tape that let me see through it, sometimes it has advantages. I buy it cheap on local shops.

I also use Kapton tape that I just can buy online on shops like Ebay. This tape can hold very high temperature.

 

[gaber]

Stupid question I've been curious about for a while - in a lot of your photos I see you using tape. Is there a special kind of clear tape, or is that just packing tape? Also curious if the tape you said you used in the temp sensor install is some type of special heat resistant tape, or again, just packing tape.

That is clear tape that let me see through it, sometimes it has advantages. I buy it cheap on local shops.

I also use Kapton tape that I just can buy online on shops like Ebay. This tape can hold very high temperature.

Kapton tape - awesome! Just researched it a bit. Will be super useful not only for the heat sensor, but all kinds of things (solder protection, arduino prototyping, etc). Can't believe I didn't know about this stuff before, thanks man!

 

[andyme]

Current status of the OpenSource firmware for Bafang 850C color display that will work with TSDZ2 running our OpenSource firmware:
[youtube]vdrahPO7ZVA[/youtube]

The way I flash/debug the firmware on development, using cheap STLinkV2 clone -- the same tools used for develop/flash TSDZ2 and KT-LCD3:

looking nice, i will order one right away...

 

[andyme]

Current status of the OpenSource firmware for Bafang 850C color display that will work with TSDZ2 running our OpenSource firmware:
[youtube]vdrahPO7ZVA[/youtube]

The way I flash/debug the firmware on development, using cheap STLinkV2 clone -- the same tools used for develop/flash TSDZ2 and KT-LCD3:

Hi Casainho,

i just ordered the display on DHGate. there it says they have two versions? old interface vs. new interface? is this of relevance?

 

[Ron Paul's Blimp]

Yes, you need the speed sensor, it is crucial for the operation.

Ah dang. What's it used for? Is it just the top-speed cut-off for local laws? If so it'd be nice to be add an option to the open-source firmware to disable that and not run a speed sensor for people who don't need to comply with laws like that or are geared in a way that makes them automatically compliant.

Especially for you i removed the mantle from a spare speed sensor that i bought.

Thanks

As far as the offset is concerned: have a look at your bike from both sides: is the orange distance about the same on the left and on the right when you turn the cranks backwards? In my case it now is, but i had to remove a lot of material from my right crank...WhatsApp Image 2018-11-15 at 11.12.45.jpeg

Hm I'll check. Do you know any pre-made cranks that fix it that people recommend?

 

[casainho]

i just ordered the display on DHGate. there it says they have two versions? old interface vs. new interface? is this of relevance?

I don't know but I would ask for the new.

 

[gaber]

Yes, you need the speed sensor, it is crucial for the operation.

Ah dang. What's it used for? Is it just the top-speed cut-off for local laws? If so it'd be nice to be add an option to the open-source firmware to disable that and not run a speed sensor for people who don't need to comply with laws like that or are geared in a way that makes them automatically compliant.

I believe the code may use wheel speed as a safety check in some scenarios. I'm sure there are some uses beyond that I'm just not aware of.

 

[andyme]

As far as the offset is concerned: have a look at your bike from both sides: is the orange distance about the same on the left and on the right when you turn the cranks backwards? In my case it now is, but i had to remove a lot of material from my right crank...WhatsApp Image 2018-11-15 at 11.12.45.jpeg

Hm I'll check. Do you know any pre-made cranks that fix it that people recommend?
[/quote]

best is to google for offset crank arm.

as it seems, most solutions will not bring the right side closer, but rather the left side farther.

 

[Ron Paul's Blimp]

I took a look at the crank arms that came with my BBS02 .. if there's a difference it's too subtle for me to see.

 

[Ron Paul's Blimp]

I ordered a 48V motor, but I only have a 52V battery. I figured no big deal, because I'm going to flash it with the open source firmware anyway. But now I'm realizing I got myself into a pickle because I'd like to bench test the motor before I flash it, since flashing voids the warranty, so if there's a motor defect, I want to know that before I flash it.

What's my cheapest option for bench testing the motor? Would something like this work?

https://www.amazon.com/Switching-Industrial-Communications-Scientific-Equipment/dp/B07C45JNBN?th=1

Is there a better option?

Thanks!

 

[andyme]

I ordered a 48V motor, but I only have a 52V battery. I figured no big deal, because I'm going to flash it with the open source firmware anyway. But now I'm realizing I got myself into a pickle because I'd like to bench test the motor before I flash it, since flashing voids the warranty, so if there's a motor defect, I want to know that before I flash it.

What's my cheapest option for bench testing the motor? Would something like this work?

https://www.amazon.com/Switching-Industrial-Communications-Scientific-Equipment/dp/B07C45JNBN?th=1

Is there a better option?

Thanks!

I see people running 36V motors on 48V. I don't see why it would be a problem to hook your motor on to the 52V battery. That should be good enough to find out whether the motor has a defect or not, no?

 

[Ron Paul's Blimp]

I thought I'd read that the stock 48V motor had factory controller programming that made it non-operable if it saw a voltage above a 48V battery's max charge. But now that I think about it I should be able to just run my 52V battery down to half-full and that should work.

 

[casainho]

Current status of the OpenSource firmware for Bafang 850C color display that will work with TSDZ2 running our OpenSource firmware

I am not very creative on design so I will start mostly by copy the LCD3 layout.

All the variables are now saved on EEPROM memory when LCD is powered off. Next step will be to add other fields like battery SOC and time. After, implement the UART communication with TSDZ2 motor controller. Finally, implement the configuration menus.

Unfortunately, I do not have working tool to generate fonts and so I am using the ones that came with the uGUI library -- the biggest font is shown on wheel speed field and I would like to have a bigger font...

 

[casainho]

So nice to find on YouTube a build of someone with TSDZ2 running our flexible OpenSource firmware and with the motor temperature sensor -- 50kms/h on flats

[youtube]9BR6xnXbYsg[/youtube]

 

[Ron Paul's Blimp]

Yes, you need the speed sensor, it is crucial for the operation.

Ah dang. What's it used for? Is it just the top-speed cut-off for local laws? If so it'd be nice to be add an option to the open-source firmware to disable that and not run a speed sensor for people who don't need to comply with laws like that or are geared in a way that makes them automatically compliant.

I skimmed through the code to try to answer my own question, and I found the following uses for the wheel speed sensor (though I could easily have missed some):

- It's used for the top-speed cut off of course.
- It's used to detect when the rider is coasting (wheel is moving, pedals are not). It wasn't obvious to me that this is needed, I think maybe it could go.
- It's used to detect if the wheel is blocked: throttle or torque being applied, wheel not turning. Why can't we use the hall sensor for this instead? It seems we don't care about the value of the wheel speed, just whether or not the motor is turning, right?

I'm not sure any of these are essential. Casainho, what do you think?

 

[andyme]

Yes, you need the speed sensor, it is crucial for the operation.

Ah dang. What's it used for? Is it just the top-speed cut-off for local laws? If so it'd be nice to be add an option to the open-source firmware to disable that and not run a speed sensor for people who don't need to comply with laws like that or are geared in a way that makes them automatically compliant.

I skimmed through the code to try to answer my own question, and I found the following uses for the wheel speed sensor (though I could easily have missed some):

- It's used for the top-speed cut off of course.
- It's used to detect when the rider is coasting (wheel is moving, pedals are not). It wasn't obvious to me that this is needed, I think maybe it could go.
- It's used to detect if the wheel is blocked: throttle or torque being applied, wheel not turning. Why can't we use the hall sensor for this instead? It seems we don't care about the value of the wheel speed, just whether or not the motor is turning, right?

I'm not sure any of these are essential. Casainho, what do you think?

FIrst of all i have to say that i am impressed that you are able to read and understand the code. i wish i could...
is your question more of philosophical nature? I don't think you will find many people here who would want to give up the possibility to know the speed they are riding at....

 

[Ron Paul's Blimp]

FIrst of all i have to say that i am impressed that you are able to read and understand the code. i wish i could...
is your question more of philosophical nature? I don't think you will find many people here who would want to give up the possibility to know the speed they are riding at....

No, not philosophical. I might add an option to run without the sensor unless someone points out a blocker.

 

[casainho]

FIrst of all i have to say that i am impressed that you are able to read and understand the code. i wish i could...
is your question more of philosophical nature? I don't think you will find many people here who would want to give up the possibility to know the speed they are riding at....

No, not philosophical. I might add an option to run without the sensor unless someone points out a blocker.

I think that almost everyone will have the speed sensor as it also helps to improve by filtering out some situations, like improving the torque sensor, because torque sensor outputs a value when you are resting your feet on the pedals. Because of this, I don't want to implement such option to not use wheel speed sensor on the system.

 

[andyme]

FIrst of all i have to say that i am impressed that you are able to read and understand the code. i wish i could...
is your question more of philosophical nature? I don't think you will find many people here who would want to give up the possibility to know the speed they are riding at....

No, not philosophical. I might add an option to run without the sensor unless someone points out a blocker.

you cannot rely on this cable to be useable as a motor flash cable. it can very well be that it does not contain 6 wires, by the way.

 

[Ron Paul's Blimp]

I think that almost everyone will have the speed sensor as it also helps to improve by filtering out some situations, like improving the torque sensor, because torque sensor outputs a value when you are resting your feet on the pedals. Because of this, I don't want to implement such option to not use wheel speed sensor on the system.

I was wondering about that. Why use the wheel speed instead of the cadence sensor to filter that? Isn't the cadence sensor much higher resolution? You might have to wait for nearly two full wheel revolutions to register a wheel speed.

I agree most people would want to keep the wheel sensor, but I doubt I'd be the only person who'd want to remove it. I've seen lots of other people who want to minimize wires and clutter -- some going so far as to hide the display in the motor.

Casainho, if I decide I want this, I wouldn't ask you to implement it, I'd do it.