New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[hefest]

50km on odo. I'm really satisfied with how it works. Especially in tour mode, it's so well tuned that you don't feel it until you turn it off. In speed and turbo modes, torque is kicking in violently enough to be worried about the longevity of the blue gear.
Anyway, here is my commuter.

 

[csbike]

Thanks,
do you know the requirements for the lights? voltage, max power?

Also I am a bit confused as to how the same cables can power lights and speed sensor, does anyone have any idea?

thanks

hi all,
I finally managed to unpack my TSDZ2 and I stared installing it.
I am a bit puzzled by the fact that the speed sensor comes attached to a Y splitter.
By looking up things online, I found this:
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2017-cm-jnqg

But I am confused. The two ports on the splitter appear indistinguishable from each other. So how do I know which goes to the motor controller and which to the lights?

Does anyone know how the wires inside the splitter are laid out?

thanks

I think it doesn't matter. Use whichever but pay attention to how you position the magnet in relation to speed sensor.

 

[hefest]

Thanks,
do you know the requirements for the lights? voltage, max power?

Also I am a bit confused as to how the same cables can power lights and speed sensor, does anyone have any idea?

thanks

hi all,
I finally managed to unpack my TSDZ2 and I stared installing it.
I am a bit puzzled by the fact that the speed sensor comes attached to a Y splitter.
By looking up things online, I found this:
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2017-cm-jnqg

But I am confused. The two ports on the splitter appear indistinguishable from each other. So how do I know which goes to the motor controller and which to the lights?

Does anyone know how the wires inside the splitter are laid out?

thanks

I think it doesn't matter. Use whichever but pay attention to how you position the magnet in relation to speed sensor.

I'm not powering lights from battery so can't help you with that, sorry.
But if I remember correctly somewhere in this thread people experienced issues with lights that draw too much power, trying digging.

 

[zoki]

Hello,

I am looking to install mid-drive that will fit on my full suspension bike. I have roughly 60 mm from bottom bracket center to beginning of the chainstay swing arm. Can I fit the TSDZ2 engine on my bike?

Thanks in advance

 

[Retrorockit]

Hello,

I am looking to install mid-drive that will fit on my full suspension bike. I have roughly 55 mm from bottom bracket center to beginning of the chainstay swing arm. Can I fit the TSDZ2 engine on my bike?

Thanks in advance

There is a torque strut that goes in where the kickstand usuallymounts. That will need to be left off and the motor allowed to swing up against the bottom of the downtube in front. A rubber pad there to cushion it will help with vibration and wear. Others have done this elsewhere in the thread. I don't recall if they needed any straps or clamps to hold it in place. Mounting a double leg kickstand put my motor in that position on a regular frame anyway. I think it helps with ground clearance on an MTB also.

 

[Retrorockit]

It is a nexus 8. Chainline is perfect. Everything is original, no problems with the space between the motor housing and the chainring, no problems with the space between the chainring and the bashgard. I used the 42t chainglider in the front (short version) and the one suitable for 18t in the rear.
In any case, the chainglider is suitable for nexus and alfine hubs, I have it on several bikes in my shop.

Thank you very much. Chaincases are almost unkown here in the US. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on one. I have a TSDZ2 Nexus 7 bike. 44x19 gearing. What do you guys do for chain maintenenace with those? How is it different than an exposed chain? Maybe a wet lube but less often?

I could sell you one and send it to the US but that will probably get quite expensive.
Don't hesitate to PM me.

Chain maintenance is minimal, some drops of oil every few months is more than enough when a bike has a decent chain case. The lubrifiant of a new chain lasts for ages already.

I'm coming at this from owning a 1500W BBSHD 8 speed derailer setup. Chain maintenance is a big issue on that bike. I think Universal Cycles had them listed. I had to mod my chainline and my chain just clears the motor case.
Here's my Nexus 7 build.
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/82828-trek-navigator-400-igh-tsdz2-project
I would probably have to go back to the stock chainring offset. IDK if I would gain or lose by doing that? My chainline is 47mm front and rear. IDK what is allowable on a single speed chain.

 

[hefest]

After several commuting 24km roundtrips, I'm surprised how easy is to overheat this thing.
Today on 12km trip, where 30% of it was in speed or turbo mode because of the inclines, whole motor case was pretty warm to the touch. I didn't push it too much, just tried to maintain speed over 15km/h on inclines and 25km/h on flat road.
I just remembered that I've set the current limit through VLCD5 to 12A. What would happen if the limit was on 16A.

I have some thick heatsink pads that I'm planning on putting inside of the casing to achieve contact between electromotor and the housing for better cooling, But I need to wait for the rest of the stuff to come so I can convert it to opensource firmware first and install lm35 temperature sensor. Until then I'll probably have to refrain myself from using turbo mode.

 

[dameri]

After several commuting 24km roundtrips, I'm surprised how easy is to overheat this thing.
Today on 12km trip, where 30% of it was in speed or turbo mode because of the inclines, whole motor case was pretty warm to the touch. I didn't push it too much, just tried to maintain speed over 15km/h on inclines and 25km/h on flat road.
I just remembered that I've set the current limit through VLCD5 to 12A. What would happen if the limit was on 16A.

I have some thick heatsink pads that I'm planning on putting inside of the casing to achieve contact between electromotor and the housing for better cooling, But I need to wait for the rest of the stuff to come so I can convert it to opensource firmware first and install lm35 temperature sensor. Until then I'll probably have to refrain myself from using turbo mode.

Can you please send pictures of your heatsink pads project. I will buy someday new motor and will do something cooling system inside. So it would be nice to get some instructions. I don't have temperature sensor installed now, so I don't know how hot motor is. I don't use normally very much assist. I'm afraid motor don't like when is hot weather and I'm driving a lot.

Somedays feel like I'm driving in toffee or something sticky. Watts are same as usual but riding feeling not good. Other day
on same assist factor assist is very good.

 

[pbert]

I recently installed the TSDZ2 52V motor with 850C on a BMC Alpenchallenge AC1 Alfine 8 belt drive bike. It is a cool setup but i have an issue with the 850C that i cant figure out. I go into the advanced setting to set the speed limit to 45 km/h instead of 25 km/h but the motor continues to stop after reaching 25 km/h.

Has anyone had this issue or knows how to correctly set the limit to 45 km/h with the 850C display ?

Thanks!

 

[casainho]

I recently installed the TSDZ2 52V motor with 850C on a BMC Alpenchallenge AC1 Alfine 8 belt drive bike. It is a cool setup but i have an issue with the 850C that i cant figure out. I go into the advanced setting to set the speed limit to 45 km/h instead of 25 km/h but the motor continues to stop after reaching 25 km/h.

Has anyone had this issue or knows how to correctly set the limit to 45 km/h with the 850C display ?

A solution is for sure to install our OpenSource firmware on the TSDZ2 + on the 850C display. If you need help on to install on the 850C, as it is currently mostly in development, please tell me and I can guide you.

 

[pbert]

@casainho thanks. i did read through the github project and try to understand how to flash the 850c but it is still not clear for me. i will maybe do it but am waiting for an answer from ec-ebikes from who i bought the kit. the display works but the different levels of assist all seem to give the same power output (from 0 to 5) and the speed setting doesnt have any effect. I did set the battery voltage to UBE. I will let you know if i need help after i get a response from the vendor.

thanks!a

 

[casainho]

@casainho thanks. i did read through the github project and try to understand how to flash the 850c but it is still not clear for me. i will maybe do it but am waiting for an answer from ec-ebikes from who i bought the kit. the display works but the different levels of assist all seem to give the same power output (from 0 to 5) and the speed setting doesnt have any effect. I did set the battery voltage to UBE. I will let you know if i need help after i get a response from the vendor.

thanks!a

I would say your 850C has a firmware that is not 100% compatible with TSDZ2 original firmware.

 

[pbert]

Ok so I would need to flash the motor and 850C display ? If so then I would for sure appreciate if you can point me to instructions on how to do this. Thanks.

 

[casainho]

Ok so I would need to flash the motor and 850C display ? If so then I would for sure appreciate if you can point me to instructions on how to do this. Thanks.

See the wiki for TSDZ2.

You will need to open the 850C LCD and solder pins or wires to flash the firmware, similar idea on the LCD3 -- see TSDZ2 wiki.
For 850C, see this wiki page, the topics for how to open the LCD and Flash and debug: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/Color_LCD/wiki/Bafang-color-LCD-850C

I am on Linux. If you are on Windows, you will need to find and install the software tool (search on google) to flash firmware on STM32F103 microcontroler. Then I can provide you with the HEX file of the firmware to be flashed.

 

[hefest]

After several commuting 24km roundtrips, I'm surprised how easy is to overheat this thing.
Today on 12km trip, where 30% of it was in speed or turbo mode because of the inclines, whole motor case was pretty warm to the touch. I didn't push it too much, just tried to maintain speed over 15km/h on inclines and 25km/h on flat road.
I just remembered that I've set the current limit through VLCD5 to 12A. What would happen if the limit was on 16A.

I have some thick heatsink pads that I'm planning on putting inside of the casing to achieve contact between electromotor and the housing for better cooling, But I need to wait for the rest of the stuff to come so I can convert it to opensource firmware first and install lm35 temperature sensor. Until then I'll probably have to refrain myself from using turbo mode.

Can you please send pictures of your heatsink pads project. I will buy someday new motor and will do something cooling system inside. So it would be nice to get some instructions. I don't have temperature sensor installed now, so I don't know how hot motor is. I don't use normally very much assist. I'm afraid motor don't like when is hot weather and I'm driving a lot.

Somedays feel like I'm driving in toffee or something sticky. Watts are same as usual but riding feeling not good. Other day
on same assist factor assist is very good.

Well I don't have any pictures because I still didn't install it. Today, got the info from postoffice that they managed to lose my kt-lcd3 package somehow. I still need kt-lcd3 and speed sensor so I can start working on conversion to opensource.

 

[SchwinnBoy63]

I recently installed the TSDZ2 52V motor with 850C on a BMC Alpenchallenge AC1 Alfine 8 belt drive bike. It is a cool setup but i have an issue with the 850C that i cant figure out. I go into the advanced setting to set the speed limit to 45 km/h instead of 25 km/h but the motor continues to stop after reaching 25 km/h.

Has anyone had this issue or knows how to correctly set the limit to 45 km/h with the 850C display ?

A solution is for sure to install our OpenSource firmware on the TSDZ2 + on the 850C display. If you need help on to install on the 850C, as it is currently mostly in development, please tell me and I can guide you.

I'm having the same problem and also cutting off with error message. 48V 750 watt Landcrossers 10Ah battery, hand throttle, won't go over 10 MPH average. Went 23 downhill today and my chain flew off.

 

[feketehegyi]

fyi, my yet another blue gear replace video:
[youtube]7aSh4fLXA3Y[/youtube]

 

[casainho]

fyi, my yet another blue gear replace video:

Are you using our OpenSource firmware? Because once I started to use it, I hadn't any more fail of the blue gear. The metal gear makes the motor noisy, it is very easy to ear that difference.

 

[feketehegyi]

fyi, my yet another blue gear replace video:

Are you using our OpenSource firmware? Because once I started to use it, I hadn't any more fail of the blue gear. The metal gear makes the motor noisy, it is very easy to ear that difference.

I use my voamca firmware, based on your ideas. More info: https://github.com/wptm/voamca . Thank you again for your research you've done at "Improving original firmware". It's actually the same like stock factory firmware but gives more info back from the controller and can the assist level be changed firmly.
It has turned out after I removed the blue gear that it is in perfect condition after 1500 Km. So my sliding problem is due to some different case. Anyway I have replaced it to the metal gear.

 

[hefest]

After several commuting 24km roundtrips, I'm surprised how easy is to overheat this thing.
Today on 12km trip, where 30% of it was in speed or turbo mode because of the inclines, whole motor case was pretty warm to the touch. I didn't push it too much, just tried to maintain speed over 15km/h on inclines and 25km/h on flat road.
I just remembered that I've set the current limit through VLCD5 to 12A. What would happen if the limit was on 16A.

I have some thick heatsink pads that I'm planning on putting inside of the casing to achieve contact between electromotor and the housing for better cooling, But I need to wait for the rest of the stuff to come so I can convert it to opensource firmware first and install lm35 temperature sensor. Until then I'll probably have to refrain myself from using turbo mode.

Can you please send pictures of your heatsink pads project. I will buy someday new motor and will do something cooling system inside. So it would be nice to get some instructions. I don't have temperature sensor installed now, so I don't know how hot motor is. I don't use normally very much assist. I'm afraid motor don't like when is hot weather and I'm driving a lot.

Somedays feel like I'm driving in toffee or something sticky. Watts are same as usual but riding feeling not good. Other day
on same assist factor assist is very good.

Well I don't have any pictures because I still didn't install it. Today, got the info from postoffice that they managed to lose my kt-lcd3 package somehow. I still need kt-lcd3 and speed sensor so I can start working on conversion to opensource.

These are the pads that I have.
US $10.71 | 2pcs/lot Gdstime 100mm x 100mm x 5mm 100*100*5mm Thickness White Combination Thermal Conductive Silicone Pads
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ou5jYYo

Material is malleable, more like dough. Shouldn't be too hard to conform it to the correct shape to get most contact between the motor and outside casing.
I'm planning to wrap it around the motor, wrap it in thin plastic and force-push the casing to get the correct shape. Than replace plastic wrap with alu-foil, so it doesn't stick to the casing. It should improve the cooling at least a bit. Better than nothing.

 

[wpenner]

After several commuting 24km roundtrips, I'm surprised how easy is to overheat this thing.
Today on 12km trip, where 30% of it was in speed or turbo mode because of the inclines, whole motor case was pretty warm to the touch. I didn't push it too much, just tried to maintain speed over 15km/h on inclines and 25km/h on flat road.
I just remembered that I've set the current limit through VLCD5 to 12A. What would happen if the limit was on 16A.

I have some thick heatsink pads that I'm planning on putting inside of the casing to achieve contact between electromotor and the housing for better cooling, But I need to wait for the rest of the stuff to come so I can convert it to opensource firmware first and install lm35 temperature sensor. Until then I'll probably have to refrain myself from using turbo mode.

Changing amps on LCD5 does not actually change anything when using the stock firmware.

I don’t think a warm case is considered overheated. I’ve used turbo mode up big hills for 2000km now without any temperature related failures. Hope to install temp sensor and custom firmware soon to see how hot the case is. I think under 80c is recommended. I run 2Ah through it in about 8minutes on my daily commute and can still hold my hand on the case for over 3 seconds, but is probably close to max temperature

 

[dameri]

After several commuting 24km roundtrips, I'm surprised how easy is to overheat this thing.
Today on 12km trip, where 30% of it was in speed or turbo mode because of the inclines, whole motor case was pretty warm to the touch. I didn't push it too much, just tried to maintain speed over 15km/h on inclines and 25km/h on flat road.
I just remembered that I've set the current limit through VLCD5 to 12A. What would happen if the limit was on 16A.

I have some thick heatsink pads that I'm planning on putting inside of the casing to achieve contact between electromotor and the housing for better cooling, But I need to wait for the rest of the stuff to come so I can convert it to opensource firmware first and install lm35 temperature sensor. Until then I'll probably have to refrain myself from using turbo mode.

Can you please send pictures of your heatsink pads project. I will buy someday new motor and will do something cooling system inside. So it would be nice to get some instructions. I don't have temperature sensor installed now, so I don't know how hot motor is. I don't use normally very much assist. I'm afraid motor don't like when is hot weather and I'm driving a lot.

Somedays feel like I'm driving in toffee or something sticky. Watts are same as usual but riding feeling not good. Other day
on same assist factor assist is very good.

Well I don't have any pictures because I still didn't install it. Today, got the info from postoffice that they managed to lose my kt-lcd3 package somehow. I still need kt-lcd3 and speed sensor so I can start working on conversion to opensource.

These are the pads that I have.
US $10.71 | 2pcs/lot Gdstime 100mm x 100mm x 5mm 100*100*5mm Thickness White Combination Thermal Conductive Silicone Pads
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ou5jYYo

Material is malleable, more like dough. Shouldn't be too hard to conform it to the correct shape to get most contact between the motor and outside casing.
I'm planning to wrap it around the motor, wrap it in thin plastic and force-push the casing to get the correct shape. Than replace plastic wrap with alu-foil, so it doesn't stick to the casing. It should improve the cooling at least a bit. Better than nothing.

You have cool plan I hope it will work.

I had yesteday 64 km ride and outside temperature was 28 °C. Motor was not hot at all when I touched it

 

[hefest]

Can you please send pictures of your heatsink pads project. I will buy someday new motor and will do something cooling system inside. So it would be nice to get some instructions. I don't have temperature sensor installed now, so I don't know how hot motor is. I don't use normally very much assist. I'm afraid motor don't like when is hot weather and I'm driving a lot.

Somedays feel like I'm driving in toffee or something sticky. Watts are same as usual but riding feeling not good. Other day
on same assist factor assist is very good.

Well I don't have any pictures because I still didn't install it. Today, got the info from postoffice that they managed to lose my kt-lcd3 package somehow. I still need kt-lcd3 and speed sensor so I can start working on conversion to opensource.

These are the pads that I have.
US $10.71 | 2pcs/lot Gdstime 100mm x 100mm x 5mm 100*100*5mm Thickness White Combination Thermal Conductive Silicone Pads
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ou5jYYo

Material is malleable, more like dough. Shouldn't be too hard to conform it to the correct shape to get most contact between the motor and outside casing.
I'm planning to wrap it around the motor, wrap it in thin plastic and force-push the casing to get the correct shape. Than replace plastic wrap with alu-foil, so it doesn't stick to the casing. It should improve the cooling at least a bit. Better than nothing.

You have cool plan I hope it will work.

I had yesteday 64 km ride and outside temperature was 28 °C. Motor was not hot at all when I touched it

I guess that depends on how hilly it is and the weight of the rider than.

 

[sysrq]

After several commuting 24km roundtrips, I'm surprised how easy is to overheat this thing.
Today on 12km trip, where 30% of it was in speed or turbo mode because of the inclines, whole motor case was pretty warm to the touch. I didn't push it too much, just tried to maintain speed over 15km/h on inclines and 25km/h on flat road.
I just remembered that I've set the current limit through VLCD5 to 12A. What would happen if the limit was on 16A.

I have some thick heatsink pads that I'm planning on putting inside of the casing to achieve contact between electromotor and the housing for better cooling, But I need to wait for the rest of the stuff to come so I can convert it to opensource firmware first and install lm35 temperature sensor. Until then I'll probably have to refrain myself from using turbo mode.

I try to maintain the same speeds on longer hilly rides (80 km) and higher ones (35 km/h gear limit) on shorter flat ones (50 km) and couldn't feel it being overheated by touch, not even warm at 12 degrees Celsius ambient temperature. Net weight around 100 kg with upright riding position (increased air resistance). Also using turbo mode only as the other ones feel harder to pedal than without any assist at all, although speed mode works better on some sections (closer to authentic pedalling). Neither the cover nor chassis felt warm. Was thinking about getting some temperature sensitive labels, but they were available only in bulk making them too expensive.

 

[beezedbee]

TL;DR - Thanks to ES I am a recent ebike convert and the insane amount of knowledge and willingness to share on ES is what got me there - thank you!

Since discovering ES quite recently, I've been lurking whilst reading everything I can about building my ebike. Having realised that the latest emissions restrictions meant that my trusty old motorbike was now too smelly, I started wondering about replacing it with an ebike. I test rode a bosch powered bike here in the UK and I was hooked on the idea of a torque sensing mid drive, but quickly realised that I wanted the satisfaction of a home built bike (and the 15mph limit was going to wind me up)...

Then I found this thread, and was excited to see I could get a torque sensing mid drive at sensible money. I got _really_ excited when I saw that a certain casainho has put in hours of work on firmware that is clearly better than OEM I'm a big believer in open source and reading up on the development of this I was itching to get some action.

I picked up a tsdz2 from china for about £330 and after a lot of cursing (my soldering skills are quite poor) I was really excited to have 0.18 firmware all installed and ready to go (flashing the motor controller required a _very_ short cable from the stlink- literally soldered right in at the controller board because any longer than that just failed). But it got done. And I didn't fry anything!

My project management skills are lax so I had not thought about any other aspect of the project at this point, so I had a (probably) working motor but no battery yet :-( I was able to prove that it was alive using my turbo trainer and bench power supply - the thrill of discovering that I hadn't killed the motor or KT LCD was immense!

Fast forward a little while and my samsung 30q batteries arrived and I managed to create a nice big 14s7p pack which should give me nearly 1kWh! I decided on the vruzend no solder kit as i was scared of spot welding and thought that a pack I could tear down again was a plus. Somehow I managed the whole pack with no shorts, and only one horrible moment when I thought one cap in the middle was broken that would have meant tearing it all apart. Without a BMS, I threw on two ISDT batt go monitors and used the trusty bench supply again to charge conservatively to 4.1v per cell.

One exciting spark later, my pack was connected and with the battery literally gaffer taped to the frame of my old Trek Fuel 90 I set off yesterday on the maiden voyage. My shit eating grin tells the story - it was an absolute blast! Smooth, smooth power delivery, instant pickup and my batteries didn't explode! Round two today involved a padded enclosure for the pack made from a foam sleeping mat and a small platform bolted to the bottle cages.

Very hungry for more now; I'm aiming to use a speedict Neptune 15 BMS because I got no response from the Tiny BMS team, and then look to complete a slightly more polished enclosure for the battery. Pictures to follow.

Props and thanks to everyone who's posts and ideas I have made use of. I'll try to find time for a better write up which might be of some use to some other newcomers who can then avoid all my stupid mistakes.

Ben