New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[Elinx]

......What is safe and how can I help keep the motor cool. I have a 36v overclocked motor with a 52v battery. Would the 48/52v motor run cooler? Do not really need the overclocked part. Also if I swap the motor to 48v version what can I do to help cool it?

Besides the heat improvements of RicMcK, you can find also one solution in the wiki and in this topic an overview of all hardware mods.
For limiting the heat is it also advised to use a temperature sensor that limits the power if needed. If you don't have that, keep the current cq power as low as possible with the settings.

 

[Brlowe]

......What is safe and how can I help keep the motor cool. I have a 36v overclocked motor with a 52v battery. Would the 48/52v motor run cooler? Do not really need the overclocked part. Also if I swap the motor to 48v version what can I do to help cool it?

Besides the heat improvements of RicMcK, you can find also one solution in the wiki and in this topic an overview of all hardware mods.
For limiting the heat is it also advised to use a temperature sensor that limits the power if needed. If you don't have that, keep the current cq power as low as possible with the settings.

I do have the power limiting sensor on my motor. How do I lower the cq power and whhat does it do? Is it the same and just selecting a lower power level?

 

[Elinx]

..... lower the cq power and whhat does it do? Is it the same and just selecting a lower power level?

cq >> "casu quo" :wink:
Lowering current and/or power, so indeed select a lower power limit. Less current is less heat

 

[skestans]

Anyone using navigation apps on your smartphone with the TSDZ2? I’m having issues because the motor generates a strong magnetic field that completely confuses the compass in my phone. That impacts navigation and as a result the phone is completely lost as to where I am or which direction I’m going.

Are there apps that somehow handle this better? I tried google maps, bike radar, MTB project.

 

[casainho]

Anyone using navigation apps on your smartphone with the TSDZ2? I’m having issues because the motor generates a strong magnetic field that completely confuses the compass in my phone. That impacts navigation and as a result the phone is completely lost as to where I am or which direction I’m going.

Are there apps that somehow handle this better? I tried google maps, bike radar, MTB project.

I use the popular https://osmand.net/ and I have no problems at all!! I usually load a GPX file with the track I will be doing.

 

[skestans]

Anyone using navigation apps on your smartphone with the TSDZ2? I’m having issues because the motor generates a strong magnetic field that completely confuses the compass in my phone. That impacts navigation and as a result the phone is completely lost as to where I am or which direction I’m going.

Are there apps that somehow handle this better? I tried google maps, bike radar, MTB project.

I use the popular https://osmand.net/ and I have no problems at all!! I usually load a GPX file with the track I will be doing.

Thanks. Where do you get the itineraries and GPX files generated from? Are you making your own paths or use something else to get ideas and recommendations?

 

[Zamzoo]

Just tried to update from 0.68 to 0.80 and I get the error e:firmware when booting it up (sw102 display, nrf toolbox 4.5.1 on iOS 13)

Any ideas what I need to check?

I've downgraded to 0.69 (I had downloaded it but never installed) now which works.

As an aside, any way to keep your configuration saved between firmware upgrades?

 

[casainho]

Just tried to update from 0.68 to 0.80 and I get the error e:firmware when booting it up (sw102 display, nrf toolbox 4.5.1 on iOS 13)

Any ideas what I need to check?

I've downgraded to 0.69 (I had downloaded it but never installed) now which works.

As an aside, any way to keep your configuration saved between firmware upgrades?

Probably you didn't flashed the correct motor firmware for the same display firmware - follow the instructions.

 

[Zamzoo]

Thanks, that does appear to be the problem.

I didn't flash the motor firmware myself, so I have no knowledge of doing this. I had thought I would be able to do all the updates via Bluetooth, this is my first attempt at updating the firmware and the update instructions don't mention anything about updating the motor firmware, possibly needs a little clarification for users like me who buy them preflashed.

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/How-to-install-the-Flexible-OpenSource-firmware#Steps_for_the_installation_or_update

 

[Semogonif]

I updated the wiki on how to install TSDZ2 on cargo bike -- now I am looking for notes and pictures of installation on a fat bike, I think this is the last category left - anyone available to share his own notes and pictures?

Well, I built an eMTB for my wife, with an 92mm BB. It's not a fat bike, but the challenge is similar:

 

[casainho]

I updated the wiki on how to install TSDZ2 on cargo bike -- now I am looking for notes and pictures of installation on a fat bike, I think this is the last category left - anyone available to share his own notes and pictures?

Well, I built an eMTB for my wife, with an 92mm BB. It's not a fat bike, but the challenge is similar:

IMG_20191224_115038_a.jpg

If you share with me photos and notes about that build, I can put on the wiki. Thanks.

 

[casainho]

Thanks, that does appear to be the problem.

I didn't flash the motor firmware myself, so I have no knowledge of doing this. I had thought I would be able to do all the updates via Bluetooth, this is my first attempt at updating the firmware and the update instructions don't mention anything about updating the motor firmware, possibly needs a little clarification for users like me who buy them preflashed.

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/How-to-install-the-Flexible-OpenSource-firmware#Steps_for_the_installation_or_update

Done:

 

[casainho]

Because over the time I received messages asking for the best place to buy the TSDZ2 motor, I decided to update the wiki with a topic specific for buying the TSDZ2 motor, display and battery: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki

 

[RicMcK]

Does anyone know how wire a VLCD5 control button to a P860C display? The VLCD5 fits much better on my dropped bars (road bike).
Thanks

 

[Andrew707]

Hello, after extensive research and lots of reading about BBS02 and TSDZ2 yesterday I finally pulled the trigger and ordered TSDZ2 36V 350W VLCD5 LCD from Aliexpress. I'm planning to use it on a gravel bike with drop bars. Looks like VLCD5 will mount there without any problems and I'm actually pretty excited to try custom firmware with new LCD sometime later.

While waiting for a motor to arrive, I still have a few questions:
- Do I understand correctly that this motor can be programmed to output 500W but it would only be possible with custom firmware?
- I read that 36V motor can be used with 48V battery and this would increase RPMs. Can someone explain to me like I'm 5 what advantage would it really give to me compared to using 36V battery? Does it mean that I'll be able to go faster with less effort from me pushing the pedals? Is it worth using 48V battery at all? I read that in general, it's better to raise the voltage and lower amps. But it wouldn't be the case in this scenario: 36V battery and 15amps amps vs 48V battery and 18amps. Will the motor will be generating more heat with 48V battery? Could this cause any damage to the motor?
- Do any of the supported displays for custom firmware detach from the holder easily? I liked that VLCD5 can be detached without unplugging any wires (if the remote buttons are not used). I live in the city with a high theft rate and don't want the screen to be stolen.
- My gravel bike has hydraulic disc brakes. Do I really need brake sensors installed? I ride clipless and sometimes at the traffic light I like to balance the bike while holding brakes and trying not to unclip until green light. Would that cause the motor to engage while I'm pressing the brakes? I assume such a situation may damage the blue gear?
- Should I order replacement blue gear just to have it ready in case it fails? Is it better to use metal one instead? How big is the noise difference using blue gear vs metal one?
- I want this motor to be as quiet as possible. What additional measures I can do to achieve that? Would any special grease or something help to reduce the noise?
- I can't decide which battery to purchase: 36V 16.5Ah or 48V 16.5Ah. 48V has 200Wh more capacity but if I understand correctly it would draw more power and wouldn't really give me more range than 36V battery. I'm pretty fit and I like to exercise and I only need this motor to help me going uphills while bikepacking so the range is pretty important to me.
- I would still like to use my bike as a regular bike occasionally. Is there a significant drag if the bike is pedalled with the motor turned off or the battery removed?

 

[casainho]

I'm pretty fit and I like to exercise and I only need this motor to help me going uphills while bikepacking so the range is pretty important to me.

Then you should go with our OpenSource firmware that has high efficiency when compared to other firmware. I would go with a 250Wh battery and with our firmware you can fine tune directly on display for long travels to optimize range, also battery SOC with very good estimation that includes the parameter of battery internal resistance. 250Wh battery is pulling 250W during one hour and maybe you will only pull about 75W average per hour, so, enough for 4 hours ride - or you can have an extra 250W battery to use on the long travels and for daily riding use only one.
For display I would go with SW102 because is very small and cheap and looks cheap also, without much value.

I want implement on our firmware the possibility to check the sensors and disable them on the display, like you are far from home but the brake sensor or torque sensor fails, then you can keep your travel by disable them and use the cadence sensor only. I also want to implement a virtual throttle for the case that a pedal break, then not even cadence sensor will work - these are problems that did happen to me at least once and I had to stop and back home, not very happy :-(

 

[Andrew707]

Then you should go with our OpenSource firmware that has high efficiency when compared to other firmware. I would go with a 250Wh battery and with our firmware you can fine tune directly on display for long travels to optimize range, also battery SOC with very good estimation that includes the parameter of battery internal resistance. 250Wh battery is pulling 250W during one hour and maybe you will only pull about 75W average per hour, so, enough for 4 hours ride - or you can have an extra 250W battery to use on the long travels and for daily riding use only one.
For display I would go with SW102 because is very small and cheap and looks cheap also, without much value.

I would like to go with your firmware and the features you'd like to implement sounds like a very good idea!

I just checked my dropbars diameter and it's 31.8mm while looks like SW102 is only 22.2mm. Do you think the clamp would still fit with a longer screw? SW102 screen looks really stealth, I like it!

Talking about the batteries I probably forgot to mention where I'm planning to use my bike is a very hilly area. Constantly up and down, up and down. I'm not sure if 250Wh would be enough. I already used a hub motor with two LiGo batteries which were almost 200Wh and they were okay for shorter rides but not an option for a bikepacking. Ideally, I would like to have around 50km of range. That's why I was thinking about either 36V 16.5Ah or 48V 16.5Ah battery because looks like they are a good capacity to price ratio (e.g. the same capacity LiGo batteries would cost twice as much).

 

[jeff.page.rides]

Hello, after extensive research and lots of reading about BBS02 and TSDZ2 yesterday I finally pulled the trigger and ordered TSDZ2 36V 350W VLCD5 LCD from Aliexpress. I'm planning to use it on a gravel bike with drop bars. Looks like VLCD5 will mount there without any problems and I'm actually pretty excited to try custom firmware with new LCD sometime later.

While waiting for a motor to arrive, I still have a few questions:
- Do I understand correctly that this motor can be programmed to output 500W but it would only be possible with custom firmware?
- I read that 36V motor can be used with 48V battery and this would increase RPMs. Can someone explain to me like I'm 5 what advantage would it really give to me compared to using 36V battery? Does it mean that I'll be able to go faster with less effort from me pushing the pedals? Is it worth using 48V battery at all? I read that in general, it's better to raise the voltage and lower amps. But it wouldn't be the case in this scenario: 36V battery and 15amps amps vs 48V battery and 18amps. Will the motor will be generating more heat with 48V battery? Could this cause any damage to the motor?
- Do any of the supported displays for custom firmware detach from the holder easily? I liked that VLCD5 can be detached without unplugging any wires (if the remote buttons are not used). I live in the city with a high theft rate and don't want the screen to be stolen.
- My gravel bike has hydraulic disc brakes. Do I really need brake sensors installed? I ride clipless and sometimes at the traffic light I like to balance the bike while holding brakes and trying not to unclip until green light. Would that cause the motor to engage while I'm pressing the brakes? I assume such a situation may damage the blue gear?
- Should I order replacement blue gear just to have it ready in case it fails? Is it better to use metal one instead? How big is the noise difference using blue gear vs metal one?
- I want this motor to be as quiet as possible. What additional measures I can do to achieve that? Would any special grease or something help to reduce the noise?
- I can't decide which battery to purchase: 36V 16.5Ah or 48V 16.5Ah. 48V has 200Wh more capacity but if I understand correctly it would draw more power and wouldn't really give me more range than 36V battery. I'm pretty fit and I like to exercise and I only need this motor to help me going uphills while bikepacking so the range is pretty important to me.
- I would still like to use my bike as a regular bike occasionally. Is there a significant drag if the bike is pedalled with the motor turned off or the battery removed?

You definitely want to buy a 52 Volt battery.
https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p102/52v_40-AMP_14Ah_Super-Shark_E-bike_Battery.html#/
https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p103/52v_40-AMP_17.5_Ah_Jumbo_Shark_E-bike_Battery_.html#/

 

[Andrew707]

You definitely want to buy a 52 Volt battery.
https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p102/52v_40-AMP_14Ah_Super-Shark_E-bike_Battery.html#/
https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p103/52v_40-AMP_17.5_Ah_Jumbo_Shark_E-bike_Battery_.html#/

What's the main reason you're advising a 52V battery? Will it work with 36V motor?

 

[RicMcK]

Torque sensor calibration?
I just got a P860C flashed and configured (0.8.0 V). I am trying to do the calibration of the torque sensor and I am confused. I have ridden the bike only about 10km in the initial testing. My normal rider input is about 250-270W on level ground.
I get into the Torque sensor adjustment menu and select "enable". I then input the test weights. 6,12,22,35,41,52,63,82. (82 being my weight). I then start setting the different weights on the left peddle. The "stock" ADC numbers do not change with the different weights? From what I read in the Wiki, I was under the impression that the ACD values will change with the various weights. Also, the initial "0" ACD value is 192, and the setup manual says it should be 304?

From display setup wiki

"Default value Description
Calibration disabled Enable the torque sensor full calibration.
Start pedal ground / Pedal ground left For the calibration to work, you need to power on the system while keeping the pedals in the vertical position and without touching them or moving the bicycle. One of the pedals must be near the ground, you can select here your preferred pedal.

Left weight 1 / L weight 1 0 Set the first weight value for the left pedal.
Left ADC 1 304 Set the first weight value for the left pedal.
Left weight x / L weight 1 x Set the x weight value for the left pedal.
Left ADC x x Set the x weight value for the left pedal."

Next, I don't understand the data (or if I should modify it) in the "Technical menu".

My questions are:
When I put the different weights on the peddles should the ACD values change on the display (real-time)?
Or do I input the static values in the spreadsheet and adjust the ACD# to make the curve the correct shape and then input them in the 860C?
I don't understand why one has to put specific weights on the peddles if the ACD values don't change when I change the weight or put the different weights on the peddle.

 

[casainho]

I don't understand why one has to put specific weights on the peddles if the ACD values don't change when I change the weight or put the different weights on the peddle.

They change!! The ADC values for torque sensor change for different weights!!

 

[RicMcK]

OK so are you saying the display # don't change, but the values change in the background?

 

[truongap]

After replacing my blue gear with the metal one, I rotated the motor by pressing throttle, it was smooth at first then I hear a clicking sound from it and I can feel the motor vibrating. Please help troubleshoot the problem.

[youtube]oIRBq1bCL6M[/youtube]
From the video:
- At first, I pressed throttle lightly and quick, you can hear the clicking sound clearly.
- Then I pressed continuously, you can hear the clicking sound in the background.

 

[skestans]

Hello, after extensive research and lots of reading about BBS02 and TSDZ2 yesterday I finally pulled the trigger and ordered TSDZ2 36V 350W VLCD5 LCD from Aliexpress. I'm planning to use it on a gravel bike with drop bars. Looks like VLCD5 will mount there without any problems and I'm actually pretty excited to try custom firmware with new LCD sometime later.

While waiting for a motor to arrive, I still have a few questions:
- Do I understand correctly that this motor can be programmed to output 500W but it would only be possible with custom firmware?
- I read that 36V motor can be used with 48V battery and this would increase RPMs. Can someone explain to me like I'm 5 what advantage would it really give to me compared to using 36V battery? Does it mean that I'll be able to go faster with less effort from me pushing the pedals? Is it worth using 48V battery at all? I read that in general, it's better to raise the voltage and lower amps. But it wouldn't be the case in this scenario: 36V battery and 15amps amps vs 48V battery and 18amps. Will the motor will be generating more heat with 48V battery? Could this cause any damage to the motor?
- Do any of the supported displays for custom firmware detach from the holder easily? I liked that VLCD5 can be detached without unplugging any wires (if the remote buttons are not used). I live in the city with a high theft rate and don't want the screen to be stolen.
- My gravel bike has hydraulic disc brakes. Do I really need brake sensors installed? I ride clipless and sometimes at the traffic light I like to balance the bike while holding brakes and trying not to unclip until green light. Would that cause the motor to engage while I'm pressing the brakes? I assume such a situation may damage the blue gear?
- Should I order replacement blue gear just to have it ready in case it fails? Is it better to use metal one instead? How big is the noise difference using blue gear vs metal one?
- I want this motor to be as quiet as possible. What additional measures I can do to achieve that? Would any special grease or something help to reduce the noise?
- I can't decide which battery to purchase: 36V 16.5Ah or 48V 16.5Ah. 48V has 200Wh more capacity but if I understand correctly it would draw more power and wouldn't really give me more range than 36V battery. I'm pretty fit and I like to exercise and I only need this motor to help me going uphills while bikepacking so the range is pretty important to me.
- I would still like to use my bike as a regular bike occasionally. Is there a significant drag if the bike is pedalled with the motor turned off or the battery removed?

With the OSF you can set it so that it only engages the motor if there is torque AND rotation. This way you can keep your foot pushing on the pedal at a red light while braking and nothing happens until you release the brakes. With the original firmware you’d need a brake sensor to achieve the same thing.

I personally keep a spare blue wheel handy. It costs around 20 shipped and if I break the current one I don’t want to be stuck waiting 30+ days for a spare.

It’s definitely possible to move the bike at assist level 0 or switched off without a battery. There is a bit of drag but not that much. It’s just not very enjoyable in my opinion because the motor adds 3KG to the bikes total weight and you only have one gear in front which makes for harder pedalling than with the smaller front chainrings you’d have on a normal bike. I think once you have it all installed you’ll use level 1 or 2 of you don’t want much assist or level 3–5 and pedalling hard when you want speed. If you really really want to not use the motor at all when you’re with friends because they’re snobs and think you’re cheating I think you’d be better served by a second bike without a motor on it.

 

[dameri]

I'm pretty fit and I like to exercise and I only need this motor to help me going uphills while bikepacking so the range is pretty important to me.

Then you should go with our OpenSource firmware that has high efficiency when compared to other firmware. I would go with a 250Wh battery and with our firmware you can fine tune directly on display for long travels to optimize range, also battery SOC with very good estimation that includes the parameter of battery internal resistance. 250Wh battery is pulling 250W during one hour and maybe you will only pull about 75W average per hour, so, enough for 4 hours ride - or you can have an extra 250W battery to use on the long travels and for daily riding use only one.
For display I would go with SW102 because is very small and cheap and looks cheap also, without much value.

I want implement on our firmware the possibility to check the sensors and disable them on the display, like you are far from home but the brake sensor or torque sensor fails, then you can keep your travel by disable them and use the cadence sensor only. I also want to implement a virtual throttle for the case that a pedal break, then not even cadence sensor will work - these are problems that did happen to me at least once and I had to stop and back home, not very happy :-(

This is a useful addition to the firmware. I have fallen in recent times twice. On both occasions, pedaling home was very painful. Thank you.