New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[pxl666]

is it known what colours are for speed sensor ? two wires or more ?

The speedsensor needs 3 wires: Gnd, 5V and Signal

The colorcode is the following:
Speed Sensor PINOUT:
green: headlight 6V
white: speed sensor input
brown: 5V (VCC)
black: SWIM
orange: GROUND (GND)
purple: RESET (RST)
Colors are according to this:
speedplug.JPG
Always triple check! Pinlocation really should be your guidance, therefor always measure, is colors match pin location.

thanks . that makes things a bit complicated as i wanted to run separate wire for speed senor and programming cable but i assumed they will be completely different from each other ...

 

[Elinx]

........ i wanted to run separate wire for speed senor and programming cable. ...

Just one pin is different (swim vs speed)
Programming cable:
+Vcc, Gnd, Swim (brown,orange,black)
Speed cable:
+Vcc, Gnd, Speed (brown,orange,white)

 

[Matze_Senpai]

i want to open my tsdz2 and grease it (it start sounding kind of dry now at 2000km) last time i put the metal gear in, i only greased that part. should i try to put grease on the whole motor? if so, which parts exactly.? thanks

 

[ornias]

i want to open my tsdz2 and grease it (it start sounding kind of dry now at 2000km) last time i put the metal gear in, i only greased that part. should i try to put grease on the whole motor? if so, which parts exactly.? thanks

Good questions...
However, it can just-as-well be the bearings or clutch bearing(s).

My two cents:
- Indeed regrease everything (i'm a huge red-and-tacky fan myself)
- Get fresh bearings for all reasonably accessable bearings
- Add some additional bearings as documented while at it
- Be ready to also replace the main clutch while at it (110nm rated) with a bb30-1K-K (140nm rated)
- Be sure to check the torque sensor for starting cracks, replace when you see some

With the above, you should have all mechanical parts, except the main axle (for which no upgrade is available), in such a state that they shouldn't require maintenance anytime soon.

 

[pxl666]

i want to open my tsdz2 and grease it (it start sounding kind of dry now at 2000km) last time i put the metal gear in, i only greased that part. should i try to put grease on the whole motor? if so, which parts exactly.? thanks

not too much as it may enter into torque sensor coils and stick them together.

 

[ornias]

i want to open my tsdz2 and grease it (it start sounding kind of dry now at 2000km) last time i put the metal gear in, i only greased that part. should i try to put grease on the whole motor? if so, which parts exactly.? thanks

not too much as it may enter into torque sensor coils and stick them together.

Agreed, and preferably a high-tack, not-very-runny grease... As that has the lowest chance of migating.

 

[Matze_Senpai]

i want to open my tsdz2 and grease it (it start sounding kind of dry now at 2000km) last time i put the metal gear in, i only greased that part. should i try to put grease on the whole motor? if so, which parts exactly.? thanks

not too much as it may enter into torque sensor coils and stick them together.

Agreed, and preferably a high-tack, not-very-runny grease... As that has the lowest chance of migating.

alright thanks. i use Lucas red n tacky #2 i assume its the right choice

 

[ornias]

i want to open my tsdz2 and grease it (it start sounding kind of dry now at 2000km) last time i put the metal gear in, i only greased that part. should i try to put grease on the whole motor? if so, which parts exactly.? thanks

not too much as it may enter into torque sensor coils and stick them together.

Agreed, and preferably a high-tack, not-very-runny grease... As that has the lowest chance of migating.

alright thanks. i use Lucas red n tacky #2 i assume its the right choice

For gears that's my favorite, it stays on forever...
Just don't overdo it either, it's so tacky it might cause drag when overdoing it

 

[pxl666]

For gears that's my favorite, it stays on forever...
Just don't overdo it either, it's so tacky it might cause drag when overdoing it

will have to try this , now im testing this one https://www.greenpartstore.com/John-Deere-Special-Purpose-Corn-Head-Gun-Grease-AN102562.html
if pressed it becomes almost liquid

 

[ornias]

I've created the pedal axle in Fusion 360, you can view/download it here: https://a360.co/3gwHR9I
The dimensions should be pretty good but an error is always possible.

I set the axle diameter to 15mm instead of the 14.9mm they did. If it is made with the popper tolerance (h7 in Europe, maybe US have different notations) the bearings should just slide without any play.

I don't have any tools to make it but it shouldn't be that hard to get a few manufactured, the only hard part is the spline that require a custom tool, unfortunately I don't have time right now to ask around.

Bit late to the party, but can you, or someone else, modify it to not-include the doomed circlip groove at all?
That way we basically have something we could, in theory, just end into a machine shop and have made without the flaws.

I think i've managed to edit the file by @romelec to leave out the outside circlip groves.

When made using a decently hard steel with a h7/h6 fit and some additional glue/loctite between bearings and axle (to compensate for the lack of locking ring), it should prevent all known axle failures.

 

[jeffieh]

Been experimenting with running two chainrings: a 46t ring in place of the chainguard and a 36t ring where the chainring normally goes.
Reason? I'm planning a bit of ebike touring on a route that features a 300m climb so I'm going to need something approaching a 1:1 ratio. I like to ride with minimal assistance and 46:34 doesn't cut it.
Haven't bothered with a front mech. When the hills arrive I can change it by hand in 5s.
Chainline is proving to be interesting. The small ring has no problems across the range, but the chain slips off the 46t ring it I try multiple changes from the 34t rear sprocket (to be fair, the chainline's pretty extreme at that point). Easy enough to remember not to do this.
Lastly it's super handy the TSDZ2 BCD is the same as 80s/90s Shimano XT. I seem to have a ton load of these in boxes so finding 36/46 was easy. I think I might have a 34t ring somewhere - that would be an even better option, I think.
Thanks for reading. Really interested to hear from you if you've done similar experimentation.

 

[ornias]

Been experimenting with running two chainrings: a 46t ring in place of the chainguard and a 36t ring where the chainring normally goes.
Reason? I'm planning a bit of ebike touring on a route that features a 300m climb so I'm going to need something approaching a 1:1 ratio. I like to ride with minimal assistance and 46:34 doesn't cut it.
Haven't bothered with a front mech. When the hills arrive I can change it by hand in 5s.
Chainline is proving to be interesting. The small ring has no problems across the range, but the chain slips off the 46t ring it I try multiple changes from the 34t rear sprocket (to be fair, the chainline's pretty extreme at that point). Easy enough to remember not to do this.
Lastly it's super handy the TSDZ2 BCD is the same as 80s/90s Shimano XT. I seem to have a ton load of these in boxes so finding 36/46 was easy. I think I might have a 34t ring somewhere - that would be an even better option, I think.
Thanks for reading. Really interested to hear from you if you've done similar experimentation.

Downside of this is worsening the already terrible q-factor of the tsdz2...

 

[endlessolli]

Downside of this is worsening the already terrible q-factor of the tsdz2...

Why is that? Unless I misunderstood something he didn’t change anything for that geometry.
(Unless you argue that you place your foot differently due to no chainguard - but that seems far-fetched to me)

Anyhow - I like the idea; esp the bare bone approach of not having a derailleur.
:thumb:

 

[scianiac]

Been experimenting with running two chainrings: a 46t ring in place of the chainguard and a 36t ring where the chainring normally goes.
Reason? I'm planning a bit of ebike touring on a route that features a 300m climb so I'm going to need something approaching a 1:1 ratio. I like to ride with minimal assistance and 46:34 doesn't cut it.
Haven't bothered with a front mech. When the hills arrive I can change it by hand in 5s.
Chainline is proving to be interesting. The small ring has no problems across the range, but the chain slips off the 46t ring it I try multiple changes from the 34t rear sprocket (to be fair, the chainline's pretty extreme at that point). Easy enough to remember not to do this.
Lastly it's super handy the TSDZ2 BCD is the same as 80s/90s Shimano XT. I seem to have a ton load of these in boxes so finding 36/46 was easy. I think I might have a 34t ring somewhere - that would be an even better option, I think.
Thanks for reading. Really interested to hear from you if you've done similar experimentation.

I've actually been doing something similar, I have a 30T and a 42T both mounted, I just manually switch over when I also swap the rear wheel for road use. The chainline isn't an issue because I have the BB shell modified to improve it and I only use the 3 smallest cogs on the cassette on the road anyway. And I have a cover I put on the 42T when not in use to prevent it from snagging pant legs.

 

[ornias]

Downside of this is worsening the already terrible q-factor of the tsdz2...

Why is that? Unless I misunderstood something he didn’t change anything for that geometry.
(Unless you argue that you place your foot differently due to no chainguard - but that seems far-fetched to me)

Anyhow - I like the idea; esp the bare bone approach of not having a derailleur.
:thumb:

Bike q-factor != crank qfactor.

By adding extra chainrings, you make the bike wider on that side, hence increase the bike q-factor...
Example picture on top here: https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/what-is-q-factor-and-does-it-matter-to-you/

 

[hemo]

I use a 32/42t set up on my kona ute with the tsdz2, the longer chain stay gives no issues with chian line and all 18 gears are usable. The original shimano mech didn't play ball with the change over and the stops not being helpful, so I replaced with a sunrace triple and got the result I wanted. For the Q factor I lessened this by fitting shimano e6000 cranks arms and gained 20mm or so.

 

[Elinx]

...
Bike q-factor != crank qfactor.

By adding extra chainrings, you make the bike wider on that side,....

Yes, if you add "extra" chainrings.

Look carefully at de picture of jeffieh and see that it isn't "extra" but a replacement of the chainguard. In that case there is no wider q factor.
But with that outer chainring the chainline will change remarkeble

 

[Piper J3]

I bought TSDZ2 with Open Source Firmware at beginning of summer for my Trek 8.5 DS. I absolutely love it…. The TSDZ2 replaced a 750W Bafang that I hated because of Cadence sensing. I put 700 miles on the TSDZ2 and now experiencing gear whine noise. I replaced the blue helical gear and lubricated helical gears (left side) and spur gears (right side) with Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease. Still have same gear whine noise. Any suggestions appreciated...

I’m thinking about buying a TSDZ2B which I think has helical gears on the right side. I’m I correct that the “B” has helical gears? Do helical gears on right side run quieter?

Thanks in advance….

 

[jeffieh]

Downside of this is worsening the already terrible q-factor of the tsdz2...

Why is that? Unless I misunderstood something he didn’t change anything for that geometry.
(Unless you argue that you place your foot differently due to no chainguard - but that seems far-fetched to me)

Anyhow - I like the idea; esp the bare bone approach of not having a derailleur.
:thumb:

Yeah, everything's as-is. I just swapped the chainguard for another chainring.

 

[jeffieh]

Been experimenting with running two chainrings: a 46t ring in place of the chainguard and a 36t ring where the chainring normally goes.
Reason? I'm planning a bit of ebike touring on a route that features a 300m climb so I'm going to need something approaching a 1:1 ratio. I like to ride with minimal assistance and 46:34 doesn't cut it.
Haven't bothered with a front mech. When the hills arrive I can change it by hand in 5s.
Chainline is proving to be interesting. The small ring has no problems across the range, but the chain slips off the 46t ring it I try multiple changes from the 34t rear sprocket (to be fair, the chainline's pretty extreme at that point). Easy enough to remember not to do this.
Lastly it's super handy the TSDZ2 BCD is the same as 80s/90s Shimano XT. I seem to have a ton load of these in boxes so finding 36/46 was easy. I think I might have a 34t ring somewhere - that would be an even better option, I think.
Thanks for reading. Really interested to hear from you if you've done similar experimentation.

I've actually been doing something similar, I have a 30T and a 42T both mounted, I just manually switch over when I also swap the rear wheel for road use. The chainline isn't an issue because I have the BB shell modified to improve it and I only use the 3 smallest cogs on the cassette on the road anyway. And I have a cover I put on the 42T when not in use to prevent it from snagging pant legs.

I just love how the TSDZ2 is a platform for innovating and "can-do".
There's a 30t 110bcd chainring? That is VERY interesting.

 

[jeffieh]

...
Bike q-factor != crank qfactor.

By adding extra chainrings, you make the bike wider on that side,....

Yes, if you add "extra" chainrings.

Look carefully at de picture of jeffieh and see that it isn't "extra" but a replacement of the chainguard. In that case there is no wider q factor.
But with that outer chainring the chainline will change remarkeble

You're right. The width is the same. Just the chainline changes for that outer ring. But nothing too dramatic (the bottom 2 sprockets on the rear aren't used where I normally ride). And the chainline for high gears on the outer sprocket actually improves.

 

[jeffieh]

I use a 32/42t set up on my kona ute with the tsdz2, the longer chain stay gives no issues with chian line and all 18 gears are usable. The original shimano mech didn't play ball with the change over and the stops not being helpful, so I replaced with a sunrace triple and got the result I wanted. For the Q factor I lessened this by fitting shimano e6000 cranks arms and gained 20mm or so.

Yes the Disc Trucker's long stays def help. It came with an Alivio RD as stock, and it's been faultless - really surprised how good it is (my previous TSDZ2 incarnation had vintage early 2000s 9sp XT which was a joy to use). Btw what chain are you using?

 

[scianiac]

I just love how the TSDZ2 is a platform for innovating and "can-do".
There's a 30t 110bcd chainring? That is VERY interesting.

No but there is a 104BCD adapter for the TSDZ2 and 30T chainrings for that, if I recall the spacing on the one I got was actually pretty good and put the chainring just about as close as you can get it to the cover for ever so slightly better chainline.

 

[Elinx]

..... TSDZ2B which I think has helical gears on the right side. I’m I correct that the “B” has helical gears?

Only till about 2018 tsdz2 had straight gears, after this date all have helical gears.
The difference with tsdz2B is the double sprag clutch on the main gear, which has nothing to do with helical or straight gear.
Straight gears were indeed noisy, but the whining you have must have another cause

 

[endlessolli]

..... TSDZ2B which I think has helical gears on the right side. I’m I correct that the “B” has helical gears?

Only till about 2018 tsdz2 had straight gears, after this date all have helical gears.
The difference with tsdz2B is the double sprag clutch on the main gear, which has nothing to do with helical or straight gear.
Straight gears were indeed noisy, but the whining you have must have another cause

There is this quote indicating that replacing the bearing on the speed reducing shaft with a high quality one greatly reduces noise:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&start=9425#p1725515
I never tried it, as my motors are not that loud (or our ears are not that good anymore…): The 2 motors currently in use were bought used and we have put 1500 additional km‘s on them w/o issues. Noise is not that loud.