Newbie wants an e-bike

[YoSamES]

I poked around, learned just enough to be dangerous.

I'm an older fart who wants an e-bike. I can build it to save money or get a better mousetrap, but if I do that, I'd like a simple way to go. A kit would be nice, but if I can do better with components, that's fine. I'm a good wrench but not an electrical engineer. I can do basic soldering but not build boards and such.
I do not have a bike to begin with. I want a "basic bike".
I would not be riding on rough stuff, but could be on the occasional dirt path.
I would prefer a Li battery of some sort. Especially for weight.
Range desired: 15-20 miles? Typical speed: 10-15? Top speed: 28 sounds cool.
I will not be pedaling much, because I have a grouchy knee. I don't mind pedaling to start out or other limited times. But over any distance, no.
Don't know if I need gears? Then again, why not? Because I won't be pedaling much?
The bike has to fit on a car hitch carrier. Although I don't have the carrier yet so there is flexibility there too.
Let's say my budget it $1,000. Could go to 1,200 if it's really worth it.

What does the decision tree look like? What should I be looking at? It doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough to get me started. Thanks!

 

[NeilP]

Well first do this:

Then we will know if you have a kit supplier on your doorstep, or if we need to recommend worldwide suppliers.

 

[YoSamES]

OK, did that.
I'm from SW of Chicago, in the far outlying suburbs/exurbs beyond Joliet, IL.

 

[Jason27]

I would go with a 36/48 volt wilderness energy kit and an allcell battery from chicago electric bikes. That is the setup I have on a mountain bile and I have had no problems at all since 2011. I mostly just ride 6 miles to work and back.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[DAND214]

I don't think wilderness energy is still around. If so it's a frt hub, which is good to bad for certain bikes. Aluminum fork and you will need a lot of care how to install it PRPOERLY.

Had frt hubs, the word is HAD.

15 builds later and all I want is a rear drive.

Allcell is in town but a little high, but you will get a good battery with cheap shipping and don't forget the tax

Too bad your way out there would of loved to help.

Dan

 

[Driverkpk]

So why no front hubs?? Gathering info on a build as well.

I don't think wilderness energy is still around. If so it's a frt hub, which is good to bad for certain bikes. Aluminum fork and you will need a lot of care how to install it PRPOERLY.

Had frt hubs, the word is HAD.

15 builds later and all I want is a rear drive.

Allcell is in town but a little high, but you will get a good battery with cheap shipping and don't forget the tax

Too bad your way out there would of loved to help.

Dan

 

[FeralDog]

I poked around, learned just enough to be dangerous.
I'm an older fart who wants an e-bike. I can build it to save money or get a better mousetrap, but if I do that, I'd like a simple way to go. A kit would be nice,....
What does the decision tree look like? What should I be looking at? It doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough to get me started. Thanks!

Good planning starts with surfing the interwebs.

First---- Old Farts' need a bicycle that fits them and the road they expect to take. Bike should fit you just like a pair of good shoes does.
Go To local bike shop, or big box department store, and sit on a lot of bikes and see how comfortable you are on them.
Townies and cruisers are a good Old Timers start for comfort while daytrippin'.
DO NOT BUY the bike yet.
Then, look at the kits available for the bike you like the most ( example:http://ebikes.ca/)

Best Bike .... then a kit ... then a battery type (chemistry) will give you most rapid satisfaction.
(IMHO- save the component build for your second e-bike).

{Front hubs can be A-OK , I like them a lot . :wink: Some folks have needs that aren't in your category so they avoid them. Your bike is your first choice: then research & debate the front ,rear, or mid-drive motor aspect. }

 

[YoSamES]

sounds like good advice, Dog. thanks!

 

[DAND214]

So why no front hubs?? Gathering info on a build as well.

I don't think wilderness energy is still around. If so it's a frt hub, which is good to bad for certain bikes. Aluminum fork and you will need a lot of care how to install it PRPOERLY.

Had frt hubs, the word is HAD.

15 builds later and all I want is a rear drive.

Allcell is in town but a little high, but you will get a good battery with cheap shipping and don't forget the tax

Too bad your way out there would of loved to help.

Dan

You will get mixed views. Some only rt or rear. Could be wrong, nut I think the numbers is for the raer drive. It being a hub, crake drive or even friction will be more rear.

Read more, look at the builds listed in the signatures to see what most have done. Some will be basic some really exotic. From slow to too fast for most of us "old farts".

OLD is all in your mind. 64 in a month. Yeh gettin older but not too old yet!

Dan

 

[wesnewell]

If I needed one today I'd go for this one. Heck of a price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/26-Rear-Wheel-48V-1000W-Electric-Battery-Powered-Bicycle-Motor-Conversion-Kit-/111209713494
Put on a 26 bike with steel dropouts.

 

[dogman dan]

Wes has the nose for the least price kits.

Do look up Chicago Electric Bikes. Lester can definitely help you with choices. I bet he has something you can test ride. The speeds you plan to travel sound ideal for the beach cruiser type conversion, and a 36v battery. Get a bike with a 7 speed gear rear wheel though, if you will use a rear hub. You can't rear hubmotor the coaster brake bikes.

No particular reason not to use a front hub, on a bike with a strong steel fork, like a cruiser, or older no suspension MTB. Front hub can be very nice. I rode front hub for 10,000 miles. But on the full suspension bikes I ride now, I have rear motors on all my bikes now. Suspension forks and front motors are problematic even for experts like me.

The cheap hitch carrier you want is the swagman. The one that holds the bike by the wheels. Cheap and durable as hell.

 

[YoSamES]

dogman, thanks for the heads up on the Swagman carrier. I've gotten the same advice from others, so that is probably the way I'm going.

Wes, that price is great. So what are the drawbacks? Noisy, prone to water intrusion, short life span... anything like that? I suppose if the motor and wheel are sound, the other bits are less of an issue if they need to be replaced or upgraded later? I'm very tempted to give it a try. Maybe combine it with a ping battery?

I see it has a 6 speed gearset, if that is the right term. Will that work on a bike that comes with a 7 speed one?

 

[FeralDog]

dogman, thanks for the heads up on the Swagman carrier. I've gotten the same advice from others, so that is probably the way I'm going.
Wes, that price is great. So what are the drawbacks? Noisy, prone to water intrusion, short life span... anything like that? I suppose if the motor and wheel are sound, the other bits are less of an issue ....

The Sirens on The Island of Fleabay call out to the newbie e-bikers ... come over here ,near the rocks, see our cheap prices!!

I give a big tip-o-the-hat to Wes , he is a true guru bloodhound for sniffin' out a good deal, BUT he is experienced in the e-art of working around the faults of those ebay kits.

Drawbacks? Well they start with the fact that the fleabay e-kits are oft sold by the same guy who is selling drapery rods and cell-phone cases. The seller is either lacking e-kit experience, dropshipping from China, or just an inventory middleman. The price temptation could be real good on a newbies' pocketbook, the first sign of trouble will leave you up the creek without a proverbial paddle. Dealer support is often lacking on those fleabay kits and thus you must ask "Are you feeling lucky?"
What is several days , weeks ,or hours of hassling worth to you if the fleabay product needs new connectors, or wiring is screwed up, or it makes a weirdo crunching sound , or ......

Summary, IMHO choose bike first : then look for the right kit . Lifespan for us Old Timers is too short to buy into another hassle. Do it right the first time and enjoy the ride ASAP. Go to a good, reputable (ES has good referrals), e-kit dealer who can give you product support, service, and advice.

Once you get experienced in the art of e-biking... THEN the fleabay kits , component builds, the speed mods, and the battery configurations get to be more of a bargain. Old Timers should know the difference between a good price, and a good value? :wink:

 

[NeilP]

OK, see what putting your location has provided..a dealer you t'neighbourhood'.

But if you wanted to order on-line..as above..avoid fleabay until you have a bike or two under your belt and or you are already an electronics hobbyist,

But online,
Justin ..he of the Cycle analyst at http://ebikes.ca/ in vancouver
Paul..Cellman on here...emissions free http://em3ev.com/
E-bike kit http://www.e-bikekit.com/

three companies I have ordered from ..all good guys.

also ...BMSbattery http://www.bmsbattery.com/

but BMS batery..very mixed reviews..theri BMSunits sem very poor..chargers...well i have 4 with no issues...but they sting you big time for postage..best to avoid them for kits..stick ot the first three

 

[wesnewell]

Wes, that price is great. So what are the drawbacks? Noisy, prone to water intrusion, short life span... anything like that? I suppose if the motor and wheel are sound, the other bits are less of an issue if they need to be replaced or upgraded later? I'm very tempted to give it a try. Maybe combine it with a ping battery?

I see it has a 6 speed gearset, if that is the right term. Will that work on a bike that comes with a 7 speed one?

The only drawback is that tech support may be next to zero. Pretty much all the components come from the same places in China. I know I've got over 10,000 miles on my motor. The 6 speed freewheel isn't a problem. Just set the derailleur stops for 6 gears or less instead of 7. I never shift gears anyway. Always leave it in the highest gear. The advantages are you are buying from a US dealer. You get it faster. There's more legal recourse if needed. I buy a lot of other cheap stuff from direct from china and have never got screwed, but most or under $20 purchases. I even buy my lipo from the USA HK warehouse to avoid expensive shipping on heavier items from China. I would never buy a ping battery, or any other lifepo4 battery for that matter. Too big. Too heavy. Not powerful enough for my wants and needs. I just don't want a big bulky chunk of 1/2C lithium when I can get 20C rc lipo that cheaper, smaller, lighter, and doesn't have the amp limitations of most lifepo4.

 

[DAND214]

wesnewel" I even buy my lipo from the USA HK warehouse to avoid expensive shipping on heavier items from China. I would never buy a ping battery, or any other lifepo4 battery for that matter. Too big. Too heavy. Not powerful enough for my wants and needs. I just don't want a big bulky chuwesnewellnk of 1/2C lithium when I can get 20C rc lipo that cheaper, smaller, lighter, and doesn't have the amp limitations of most lifepo4.

Wes is correct on the cost of the shipping and the heavy LiFePo's.
He also has a few miles/years experance in the hobby.
I love my LiPo's r/c batts but not too sure I would recommend them to a Noob.
They need more extra support equiment than the LiFes do. And are more hazerdous too. Not trying to discorage you on them.

As for support, it's here when you need it.
The first suppiers listed are great but BMSBSTTERY are shady. I haven't had a problem with them. Other than they change there products and don't know that they have done so.

Ebike.ca is great Cell_man EV3 is great to deal with. Ebikekit.com is a great supplier but IMO is over priced for what you get.He does have one of the simplest plug and play kit out there.

Look at them all, then think twice before you buy. Ask questions.

Dan

 

[NeilP]

I love my LiPo's r/c batts but not too sure I would recommend them to a Noob.
They need more extra support equiment than the LiFes do. And are more hazerdous too. Not trying to discorage you on them.

I can sort of see what you mean, but I was a total newbie when I started this e-bike stuff..not even had an RC model ..not even touched Lipo or any other battery chemistry like this before, but I was prepared to read, learn and take note.

with the advent of nearly plug and play BMS's from CellMan that can do Lipo, it is even easier.


Yes, there have been LiPo fires..but I have a whole pile of individual cells that I have attempted to charge to destruction, filming to get a good fireball..but no..the buggers just expand, pop and go open circuit..even hitting the bloody things with welding chipping hammer fails to get them to catch fire. I can get maybe one in ten to burn nicely.

 

[The fingers]

Local dealer helped me get going and saved $$ by avoiding shipping cost. I'm 58, so when pedaling became more difficult and I moved farther away from work, the motor kept me out there commuting by bicycle where I love to be. The spindly-looking expensive, spiderweight, spandex greyhound route just wasn't for me, since I went MTB early 80's, and am a bit of a frugalist.
Nowadays I prefer cruisers, because the upright posture is easier on my neck and rear, although townies and trikes look very appealing.
I've been considering a battery upgrade for about a year now, but those amazing old SLAs still give me an easy 10 mile ride to my night job, where I can leave it charging in the secure breakroom during my 4 hour shift.
I wanted cheapest and easiest, which for me was with a free donor bike and will call/discount do-it-yourself kit.
Welcome to the forum and may your patience reward you with the best ever ev grin!

 

[YoSamES]

OP here. Thanks for the advice and opinions. It helps a lot. I've refined my ideas. Here they are:

I would gladly buy from a local dealer. Chicago is not particularly local, it's almost 90 minutes from me. Still, I'm considering it. It'd be worth laying my hands on an actual finished e-bike. From what I've read, there are or were e-moto brand ebikes I'd that would fit my specs below.
But, I would enjoy building one. I need a winter project for my workshop.

WHAT I WANT, V2.0:
Comfy old man style bike, or even a drop tube style
50 lbs or less, so I can get it up on a Swagman carrier with some ease.
15-18 cruise speed
Good handling at same
15-20 mile range
Pedal startup okay, but must be able to run and fulfill above goals without pedaling, on level ground.
No gears/derailleur/shifting. (Simpler, cleaner, & I don't want to be pedaling anyway.)
Well-made motor, can be Chinese, but hopefully decent quality
Don't particularly care if front or rear motor
Would prefer a motor and wheel prebuilt
Li battery of some sort; light weight is a big priority
Twist throttle
Don't know squat about brakes. Hopefully at 15-18 MPH and me weighing 160#, most brakes will work.
This will not get a ton of miles put on it, not a daily commute or anything like that.
$1,500 budget

Do I need suspension?

So, further comments welcome! Especially if anyone has links to a build that meets the above.

 

[torker]

It is good u have a good idea what u want and all is realistic. At 1500 u could almost get a premade but it sounds like you are capable to do a little fabbing. Mounting the battery can be a hassle unless you get a bike with a big triangle and use a bag or fab an enclosure.
Suspension is not needed if you have big tires and keep speed at 18 mph. Maybe front susp. and a seat post shock.
I started with lead -sucks- and now have lipo. Lipo can be a hassle with the wiring spagetti mess a little/charging , I have to unhook everything to charge mine . There are solutions to this now. I am considering Lifepo4 although it is heavier , maybe 9 lbs for 36 volt x 15 amphr = not too bad. I do want something plug and play now. Have to keep the setup mostly stock for Lifepo4 = 20 amp controller . Should be fine unless you are climbing big hills.
The weight will probably climb over 50 lbs. unless you use a geared motor and lipo but a few extra pounds on an electric are not a big deal except it will start to effect handling . I would keep the gears just in case the electrics ever die you have to peddle home.

Oh almost forget.. Welcome to the forum. You will enjoy the new grin..

 

[NeilP]

you coul dbe one of the first on here to try an Falco kit...bit pricey though , but very nice..and 5 year warranty.

wireless handlebar unit..controller built in to motor...5 phase motor...just fit the wheel, connect the batery and go

see the thread

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49849

 

[wesnewell]

WHAT I WANT, V2.0:
$1,500 budget

Do I need suspension?

So, further comments welcome! Especially if anyone has links to a build that meets the above.

You can do V2 for under $700 easy. Or you might want to try one of these with free shipping.
http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-4000w-electric-bike.html

 

[YoSamES]

If anyone has specific components to point me to, that would be a big help.
The Falco kit looks wonderful but it's a budget buster and might be too good for my usage, if you know what I mean.
Hopefully there is a good middle ground.

 

[torker]

The links earlier are the best if u want North America business and customer support , Both mine are from Ebikekit Jason is awesome and I think the prices are fair. and you can thank Justin @ Grintech in Canada for saving this forum. Cellman has a stellar rep. Those would the 3 I would send u to. Plus check the for sale ads here.
I would say you may be able to save a little money on ebay for a motor but I don't think it would be wise. I should rephrase.. the motors are all made in China. If the resell has good rep u could save some money here. On the battery, the most cost part I would not skimp either. Cellman or, Ping= a little heavy or roll your own with Lipo=another thread by itself here

 

[DAND214]

WHAT I WANT, V2.0:
$1,500 budget

Do I need suspension?

So, further comments welcome! Especially if anyone has links to a build that meets the above.

You can do V2 for under $700 easy. Or you might want to try one of these with free shipping.
http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-4000w-electric-bike.html

I think what I want v2.0, was his second version of what he wants. Not a Cromo.

Dan