No Throttle response on Egrom when Overvolt

[egromftw]

I recently got my Boom Grom and I added an additional 2 batteries to the series to overvolt the bike as others have done on previous models. The bike turns on, all lights and brakes work but the throttle does not respond. The speedometer which has a built in voltmeter shows the proper voltage and Im sure I properlly added them to the series. Removing the two additional batteries and putting the originals back in series the bike works fine. I also upgraded the DC to DC converter which works fine with the original batteries. The only thing I can see thats strange is with the two extra batteries the speedometer shows the bike going 6mph even though its not moving. Does the controller have overvolt protection possibly? What are somethings that could be the problem?

Edit: I checked all of the batteries and they are all in good health. One of the batteries in the series has a 40 amp Fuse on the wire which Im not sure its position effects anything I wouldnt think it does.

 

[Dauntless]

http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4179

It would sure help to see your battery arrangement. That thread has a pic to download a pic but you have to register there and who knows how long it'll take to be cleared, if someone is a member of elmoto maybe they'll get it for us.

Went looking, anyone talking about it said it worked, people made YouTube videos showing their 10mph greater top speed/faster acceleration, there was one reference to the speedo saying 06 when the power was down. Doesn't seem to be real information available. Nobody seems to be posting they had a problem.

Trying to remember weird stories of electric groms having trouble but resetting because you turn the left blinker on, of some secret rest button around the kickstand, not sure what they said at the time.

 

[egromftw]

When overvolting in general what are some reasons that the throttle may not respond? I plan on trying again soon. Another thing is I extended a wire by connecting but ends with a connector could the coupling be an issue? I read its best to do a straight wire.

 

[amberwolf]

When overvolting in general what are some reasons that the throttle may not respond?

If the controller has an HVC, it will essentially shutdown, disallowing operation, whenever battery voltage is above that limit.

To find out if it is such an issue, and exactly what point that is, you can use a variable power supply, starting at the original battery's voltage at full charge, and increasing until it doesnt' respond to control inputs.

If it does have an HVC, then unless there is programming software available for your specific model, or there is a jumper for different HVCs inside the controller that you can change to something about the voltage you're after, there's not much you can do about it, other than reverse-engineering the hardware of the controller to see if it has a voltage divider you can alter, or replacing the controller/display system with a different one that does what you want.

 

[egromftw]

http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4179

It would sure help to see your battery arrangement. That thread has a pic to download a pic but you have to register there and who knows how long it'll take to be cleared, if someone is a member of elmoto maybe they'll get it for us.

Went looking, anyone talking about it said it worked, people made YouTube videos showing their 10mph greater top speed/faster acceleration, there was one reference to the speedo saying 06 when the power was down. Doesn't seem to be real information available. Nobody seems to be posting they had a problem.

Trying to remember weird stories of electric groms having trouble but resetting because you turn the left blinker on, of some secret rest button around the kickstand, not sure what they said at the time.

I think by making this diagram for you I know what I may have done wrong. The 8th battery instead of adding it to the series like I did in the picture I attempted to add in series as then 7th battery instead which I made three wires for instead of only having to create only two new wires like in the picture. Im pretty sure it was done properlly as the voltage was right on the speedometer. Any input as to what could be wrong assuming I did it right would be appreciated.

 

[Dauntless]

The only problem with what Amberwolf says is that I'm already aware before your post that people succeed at what you're trying to do, so I don't think you'd have the rare Boom with a built in problem. My assumption, without seeing, was what you eventually said, that something wasn't done right. But I can't say that picture is really good enough to judge anything.

When you said "The speedometer which has a built in voltmeter shows the proper voltage. . . ." did you mean 101v, or 76v? These are the numbers I remember reading. I think I remember a video showing 101v.

So I believe I've seen in videos that the 6 SLA's are underneath, people put one or two additional cells at the top of the bike for lack of space. I hate to talk about wiring because I'm only guessing how the wiring on those works. But I assume reasonably that there is either a positive or even a negative wire running to your keyswitch, with the other (Negative earth ground?) straight to the motor. (I'm trying hard to not be TOO logical, this is Chinese afterall.) I do feel the best way to connect the two additional batteries is to use that red wire going up (The left side of the pic is the bottom of the bike, right?) off a positive terminal that would no longer be mounted to head into the electrical system as it came stock, that it would go to a negative terminal on another battery you have added, that the positive terminal is connected to the negative terminal on the other battery, then that positive comes down and connects where the bottom battery once connected. (I'm relieved that doesn't sound so confusing, I hope you get it.) ACK! But with the potential to fry everything I hate to just tell you without seeing.

Believe me, if I won the lottery this is one of things I'd run buy. I've looked into this a little. I get the idea it works pretty easy for others as you're the first I've seen asking for help. I've never seen anyone mention they changed the power inverter for the lights, etc., but they might neglect mention.

 

[egromftw]

The only problem with what Amberwolf says is that I'm already aware before your post that people succeed at what you're trying to do, so I don't think you'd have the rare Boom with a built in problem. My assumption, without seeing, was what you eventually said, that something wasn't done right. But I can't say that picture is really good enough to judge anything.

When you said "The speedometer which has a built in voltmeter shows the proper voltage. . . ." did you mean 101v, or 76v? These are the numbers I remember reading. I think I remember a video showing 101v.

So I believe I've seen in videos that the 6 SLA's are underneath, people put one or two additional cells at the top of the bike for lack of space. I hate to talk about wiring because I'm only guessing how the wiring on those works. But I assume reasonably that there is either a positive or even a negative wire running to your keyswitch, with the other (Negative earth ground?) straight to the motor. (I'm trying hard to not be TOO logical, this is Chinese afterall.) I do feel the best way to connect the two additional batteries is to use that red wire going up (The left side of the pic is the bottom of the bike, right?) off a positive terminal that would no longer be mounted to head into the electrical system as it came stock, that it would go to a negative terminal on another battery you have added, that the positive terminal is connected to the negative terminal on the other battery, then that positive comes down and connects where the bottom battery once connected. (I'm relieved that doesn't sound so confusing, I hope you get it.) ACK! But with the potential to fry everything I hate to just tell you without seeing.

Believe me, if I won the lottery this is one of things I'd run buy. I've looked into this a little. I get the idea it works pretty easy for others as you're the first I've seen asking for help. I've never seen anyone mention they changed the power inverter for the lights, etc., but they might neglect mention.

Sorry the website flipped the image the whole image is the bottom of the bike. The drawn white bo es represent the placement of the new batteries. The power inverter has to be upgraded in order to use a more powerful charger to charge the additional batteries otherwise the new batteries need to be charged seperately. When I say proper voltage the Speedometer showed 100v, 101v at first but dropped down to 100 after some time passed after adding the batteries. Im going to retry later today or tomorrow based on the drawing thays hopefully easier to understand now lol . But assuming I did it right the first time could the controller or throttle not allow higher voltage? Something else? Btw the people that make the Sabvoton controller Im sure has made an appearance here are thr same ones that make the controller in this bike.


cheerleading emoticons

Edit: Forgot to mention the red numbers represent the order of the batteries after adding in the two new batteries. The battery furthest away becoming the first in thenseries and the battery closest becoming the last in the series.

 

[Dauntless]

Your red numbers are wrong. But the point is I can't see the whole thing so there's too much guessing. I'm assuming if you get it wired as I was saying it will work, but I can't see to say I'm sure.

 

[egromftw]

Your red numbers are wrong. But the point is I can't see the whole thing so there's too much guessing. I'm assuming if you get it wired as I was saying it will work, but I can't see to say I'm sure.

Are they wrong? I thought the positive lead on one end of the series is the begining and the negative lead on the other side of the series is the end. The white box (battery) furthest away being added to what one end would become "1" and the box closest taking the place of the battery with the negative lead on the last battery would then be "8".

The first picture is from a forum where I learned what to do for the most part with some of the cables moved by the owner to be zipped tied out of the way. My batteries (previous post) where in a different order and my wires where already out of the way on my newer model. Mine also came with bars the other guys didnt have which seems to have been added for the purpose of adding two additional batteries (second picture).








Link to an identical controller that does not have the spiral housing like mine does.

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60613347076/Yuyang-King-YKZ7280JA-V1-1200-1500w.html

 

[egromftw]

Well I know without a doubt this time the batteries are 100% in series but I get no throttle response, lights, brakes, speedometer comes on the only strange thing is the speedometer shows 6-8mph when the bike is not in motion. Out of curisity I flip the breaker while holding the throttle and for a splot second the throttle works before the power drains. Im assuming either the throttle cant handle the extra voltage or maybe there is some sort of overvolt protection if that is a thing.







Since ive been messing with it its gone from 101v down to 99v.

 

[Dauntless]

Your numbers are wrong because they have been written in a way that can be interpreted several ways, the most likely way would definitely be incorrect but I'm not sure that any interpretation would meet reality.

The 6 original cells should not change number, that's just practical. The 2 new should be 7-8. They should be wired together and added at one end of the chain. The other end should remain untouched. Again, just practical.

I get so nervous about telling you anything because I look at these pictures that don't really show what I could figure out in person, that's just how it works. I think bottom right is a negative battery terminal that goes to ground, there is where I'd want to add the two batteries. If I could seriously see I might see a reason to not do it that way.

Let me try to explain something that can come up about condition of batteries. Have you ever put a voltmeter on a car battery when it wouldn't crank and see the voltage was fine? The voltmeter alone won't prove those new batteries are good, though it's unusual that if they show enough volts that there's a problem. It's just that we want to get that possibility out of the way. So if you have a 12v light you can connect to each of them and let the glow a bit, you'll get a sense of relief on that potential issue. Recharge them individually with a 12v charger. Wouldn't hurt to try all charging all cells individually, just to get that out of the way.

One other shot in the dark here, get the rear wheel in the air and see if the throttle works that way. Maybe not right but the wheel spins some, etc. With just the 6 cells it should take off and go, right?

Mostly, without something to provide more information, there's not much for any of us to say. The HVC is brought up, but no reason to think the newer Grom has one from old ones I've read about.

 

[egromftw]

Your numbers are wrong because they have been written in a way that can be interpreted several ways, the most likely way would definitely be incorrect but I'm not sure that any interpretation would meet reality.

The 6 original cells should not change number, that's just practical. The 2 new should be 7-8. They should be wired together and added at one end of the chain. The other end should remain untouched. Again, just practical.

I get so nervous about telling you anything because I look at these pictures that don't really show what I could figure out in person, that's just how it works. I think bottom right is a negative battery terminal that goes to ground, there is where I'd want to add the two batteries. If I could seriously see I might see a reason to not do it that way.

Let me try to explain something that can come up about condition of batteries. Have you ever put a voltmeter on a car battery when it wouldn't crank and see the voltage was fine? The voltmeter alone won't prove those new batteries are good, though it's unusual that if they show enough volts that there's a problem. It's just that we want to get that possibility out of the way. So if you have a 12v light you can connect to each of them and let the glow a bit, you'll get a sense of relief on that potential issue. Recharge them individually with a 12v charger. Wouldn't hurt to try all charging all cells individually, just to get that out of the way.

One other shot in the dark here, get the rear wheel in the air and see if the throttle works that way. Maybe not right but the wheel spins some, etc. With just the 6 cells it should take off and go, right?

Mostly, without something to provide more information, there's not much for any of us to say. The HVC is brought up, but no reason to think the newer Grom has one from old ones I've read about.

I read that the voltage could determine the state of charge and the voltage on these batteries is roughly 12.74v. Does that change what you suggested trying to charge individually? Also earlier today I attempted running just one additional battery which would be the one added to the end of the chain as you suggested and still no throttle. Do throttles have to be upgraded or is that not a factor? I can say for certain that my grom has a different controller than ones you may have seen as on adventurerider forums where I read on this 2 difderent groms from the same manufacture spread over a few years had different controllers. Also there are other differences like the oramge bars you see, a mat, foam, and even a 40amp fuse on one of the wires in the series.

 

[egromftw]

So I went to Walmart and bought an individual battery charger. The voltage before charging was 12.7 and after a few hours I took the battery off the charger and after resting a minute or so the voltage was 13.9 (14.3 fresh off the charger). The first image is the battery in series with no throttle, second image is go show where the negative was and where the new wire was connected to verify it was in series. I bought a new controller which will be here next week and Ill get a different throttle if you confirm that can have an effect. At this point I can only imagine its the throttle or the controller.


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Voltage on speedometer with the one battery added and the original batteries charged up.


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[fechter]

I suggest double checking the display voltage with a real voltmeter just to verify.

I don't have experience with that exact model, but there frequently is a over voltage protect feature that can prevent it from running. From the battery positive, there is typically a fat red wire going to the controller. There is also a skinny wire that goes to the key on/off switch. The old trick is to keep the fat wire on the full voltage, but put the skinny wire one battery down so it sees a lower voltage. This fools the controller and allows operation above it's limit. Downside is a slight uneven discharge on the pack and inaccurate voltage reading. You can usually tell your state of charge from the reading you get.

 

[egromftw]

I suggest double checking the display voltage with a real voltmeter just to verify.

I don't have experience with that exact model, but there frequently is a over voltage protect feature that can prevent it from running. From the battery positive, there is typically a fat red wire going to the controller. There is also a skinny wire that goes to the key on/off switch. The old trick is to keep the fat wire on the full voltage, but put the skinny wire one battery down so it sees a lower voltage. This fools the controller and allows operation above it's limit. Downside is a slight uneven discharge on the pack and inaccurate voltage reading. You can usually tell your state of charge from the reading you get.

Thats good information thank you. At this point I believe Ive confirmed that newer models of this bike have the new generation of YuyangKing controllers which now include ovee volt protection by default. I have bought a new YuyangKing controller with higher voltage input 40-144v and the manual says it has overvolt protection. Once I recieve the new controller I will try again and if it works Ill know it was the controller and hopefully others who get the bike can benefit from this thread.

 

[egromftw]

There is a 40amp fuse on one of the wires in the series as seen in my ealier posts. Im no electrician (obviously) but my new controller has a 50a minimum should I remove the 40a fuse?

 

[Dauntless]

While one would assume you'll wind up with a bigger fuse, I'm curious to see what happens if you leave that fuse there with the bigger controller. It's not like you have another use for it after you burn it out.

 

[egromftw]

While one would assume you'll wind up with a bigger fuse, I'm curious to see what happens if you leave that fuse there with the bigger controller. It's not like you have another use for it after you burn it out.

I was thinking of removing the fuse as it is not present on the older models and just seems to be an extra layer of protection that isnt really necessary. If anything I would install a larger one but I dont know what type of fuse it is I just figured from experience thats what it is.

 

[egromftw]

So without a doubt it is the controller for anyone who wonders here with the same problem. Also the 3 speed is actually 2 speed and speed 1 and 3 were reversed. So anyone who comes here who needs a little more info here is a copy of my post on a different forum:


Good news! After several days of diagnostics and looking for help I have found out for myself what the issue was. It is without a doubt the controller, it now includes overvolt protection on the newer models so simply adding a battery or so is not enough. You MUST upgrade the controller (recommend aliexpress app get the same company YuyangKing for easy swap) and the DC to DC converter (can be found on amazon) if you do not upgrade the converter you can have other problems so either follow the bypass guide in earlier posts (I believe pages 18-35 has the most info) or upgrade it as well.

Other things that were wrong or different than other/older models Ive found along the way are as follows:

1. The 3 Speed wire is actually a two speed and 1st and 3rd speed is reversed. Speed 1 is the highest and Speed 3 is the lowest, Speed 2 is the same as 1 and the Speed 2 wire is missing.

2. There is a cord plugged into reverse but the bike does not have a reverse function. I believe what this cord actually does is cut the engine if you use either brake (front or rear). I personally unplugged this and that is the only change I noticed as I can now spin the tire while holding the brake.

3. The negative/ground wire from my motor was cut and spliced back together which I believe may be causing a small issue due to increased resistance. I believe this may be slowing the bike down slightly though I cant say for certain as all my ridding previously was done on speed 3 which I thought was the highest speed.


EDIT: I forgot to mention other controllers have a slightly different wiring configuration. High Brake and Throttle wires are originally combined into one connector and on other controllers like my new one high brake has its own connector and throttle wires are seperate in their own connecter. You will have to cut the connectors on both the old and new conmectors to move the old connector ehoch has High Brake and Throttle Wires together as one. If you are not comfortable with this find yourself a different controller than the one below or you will have to change the brakes and throttle too.

Controller I used from a trustworthy good seller:

#Aliexpress US $220.00 | FREE SHIPPING YUYANG KING App Programmable YKZ12080 BLDC Ebike Controller 96V 120V 80A 3KW with bluetooth for sale
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dSKR8Uk

 

[biothundernxt]

While one would assume you'll wind up with a bigger fuse, I'm curious to see what happens if you leave that fuse there with the bigger controller. It's not like you have another use for it after you burn it out.

I was thinking of removing the fuse as it is not present on the older models and just seems to be an extra layer of protection that isnt really necessary. If anything I would install a larger one but I dont know what type of fuse it is I just figured from experience thats what it is.

The fuse is not redundant. The models with no fuse really should have one. It is there in case there is a short-circuit condition.