Ok, so I crashed again today...Is it time for a trike in the city?

[donn]

It's way more dangerous to cycle on the sidewalk unless you are going walking speeds.

For me, that's largely about intersections, where I suppose your really significant chance of trouble awaits. Riding out in the street, there's cars and trucks whizzing past and it seems hazardous as all get out, but the cross traffic is thinking the same thing. They aren't going to bust out into that arterial without checking, and if you're out there, there's a fair chance they'll see you. Coming off the sidewalk, you're a total surprise. Unless you're going walking speeds, and most bicycle riders don't care to slow down that much.

Either way - out in the arterial right lane, or mixing it up with the pedestrians on the sidewalk, it seems to me like a you're adding inconvenient width and giving up height, on a tricycle. It's for people who can't manage with 2 wheels, and who ride more out in the country on whatever routes they need for their fitness program.

 

[e-beach]

Er, why are you riding on the sidewalk? It's way more dangerous to cycle on the sidewalk unless you are going walking speeds.

I was on the sidewalk because it was the closest path from point A to point B. Where I live it is legal to ride a bike on a sidewalk as long as you are not riding irresponsibly. I was going slow.

Assuming it's legal for some reason to ride on sidewalks where you are, invest in a bell. Nothing is more amusing than people jumping out of their skin because they are oblivious and you "ding" up behind them.

Bells aren't loud enough around here. How do I know? I have been walking on the sidewalk and didn't hear the bell of somebody coming up behind me until they were a few feet behind me. The din of my city is loud.

.......I'm not old or decrepit though I just like weird forms of transportation. ....

Be easy on the old and or decrepit guys. You will be old and or decrepit too one day. :lol: I myself have been riding bicycles for 55+ years now. going down is not as easy as it once was. :wink:

 

[wturber]

Er, why are you riding on the sidewalk? It's way more dangerous to cycle on the sidewalk unless you are going walking speeds.

I agree that sidewalks like the OP shows are pretty poor for cycling. But he said he was going 8 mph, so that mitigates a lot of the safety issues. But many sidewalks are quite good for higher speed riding and are clearly safer/better for the cyclist. In the Phoenix area, pedestrian traffic is generally so light that sidewalks frequently are preferred to riding on the street. In fact, many will run for very long stretches without any driveways crossing them.

I think the recommendation of larger tires and a bell are sensible for the OP and his situation.

 

[markz]

Looks like the road curbs are squared and not rounded or angled for wheels to get up at an angle. That would be a tough one to get out onto the road, with all the parked cars there. Plus that driveway with the curbs. There is a new condo with the walkway that has curbs. In the winter I wanted to make some fresh tracks, luckily I didnt hit the pathway curb.

I remember one time my front wheel slide on the sidewalk curb but I did not fall. I was at an almost parallel angle and like you probably got caught in a rut.

 

[wturber]

Riding out in the street, there's cars and trucks whizzing past and it seems hazardous as all get out, but the cross traffic is thinking the same thing. They aren't going to bust out into that arterial without checking, and if you're out there, there's a fair chance they'll see you.

But they are looking for cars, not bicycles. That's why I consider it important to go to extra lengths to increase my visibility.

That said, I agree that coming off a sidewalk at higher than pedestrian speeds makes you even harder to notice. Sidewalks also have the added problem of providing less buffer from cars entering the street from driveways, alleyways, etc. Those vehicles are looking to stop at the street, not the sidewalk. So extra care must be taken if riding on sidewalks that are crossed by driveways.

 

[wturber]

Looks like the road curbs are squared and not rounded or angled for wheels to get up at an angle. That would be a tough one to get out onto the road, with all the parked cars there. Plus that driveway with the curbs. There is a new condo with the walkway that has curbs. In the winter I wanted to make some fresh tracks, luckily I didnt hit the pathway curb.

I remember one time my front wheel slide on the sidewalk curb but I did not fall. I was at an almost parallel angle and like you probably got caught in a rut.

The street reminds me of Playa Del Ray where my sister lives. It seemed like a sketchy place to ride when I was there. Heck, driving there seems a bit sketchy as well.

 

[e-beach]

.......I think the recommendation of larger tires and a bell are sensible for the OP and his situation.

In this situation the OP agrees that fat tires probably would have bounced him off the lip of the sidewalk and saved him from pain. However, in another situation the lithe nature of thin tires have saved him from other crashes. As for a bell, they are truly useless around here. An air horn might...and I do mean might help get peoples attention on a sidewalk or street, but with everybody plugged into their cell phone there is no guarantee of that ether.

My normal sidewalk MO is to slow down and get behind the pedestrian and see if they hear me and turn to look. If they don't I then call out "pardon me, excuse me! pardon me, excuse me!" until they look. They then give me room to pass. It is far less invasive then a bell or an air horn and for me makes a less stressful ride. As far as I am concerned there is no reason to get anybody stressed out so they hate e-bikes.

In this case, I simply thought that I should give the whole right of way to a young couple pushing their baby. Then I crashed.

 

[John in CR]

Sidewalks are the most dangerous and least desirable place to ride, both for you and others. Unless you're traveling at walking speeds you shouldn't be on a sidewalk AFAIC.

How many times have you been pulled over by the cops (my guess is never despite running over legal limit power)? On the street just obey the traffic laws and you'll be fine. You have a lot more space to maneuver and avoid obstacles and hazards. If you can't manage a bike how on earth can you think you'd be safer on a vehicle inherently less stable?

 

[Tommm]

Funny, I have had the exact same type of crash two time in the last 2 months. My thoughts were the same as yours. Wider tyres won't help enough, I have 27.5 2.8 semi slicks.

My conclusion is to be on 100% alert mode when changing lanes on the road or on the sidewalk, not just about traffic but shoulders too. If the risk is unknown, consider the risk 100%. One of the crashes was on a similar ledge, but it was on the road. The road widened for a bus stop, and the bus stop had a ledge! So it is not a side walk only thing. Also, especially in the winter months consider using flexibe 3DF knee and elbow protectors.
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/leatt-knee-guard-3df-airflex-2015/rp-prod123850

They are soft as rubber when riding and harden up from a fast impact. I also hit my knees and elbows mostly. I will be getting some soon.

 

[The fingers]

I always wanted some armored gloves also, they’ve come down in price. Simple construction style knee pads are fairly inexpensive protection. Rollerblader elbow and wrist pads from play it again sports. :wink:

 

[Tommm]

Of course, gloves are part of the package for palm protection, mtb specific leatt(or other) ones are great, general sporting gloves are ok too. Moto gloves are too big and lose you stealth. It should have some slight knuckle protection too, you will be thankful after you ride too close to a prickly bush for the first time. It also keeps you warmer and looks cool.

 

[markz]

Wider tires will also help out the tires not wander when riding grooved roads.
Also help out if you are dealing with trains rails.

 

[cal3thousand]

To me, it sounds like a fatter tire will benefit you before adding another wheel to the dynamics. A 2.4" tire would have laughed at that gap and a 4" tire wouldn't have even known it was there.

 

[Tommm]

Well the fall off is quite steep. If the gap is 2 inch, no tire will save you. If it is 1 inch, a big(2.4) tire will save you, if it is 1.5 inch, a fatbike(4.0) tire might save you.

In fact, after my two crashes I am going down from 2.8 to 2.4 front because of some tight clearance issues. I initially hesitated that this would lead to more crashes, but after the second crash on the 2.8 I know no fat tire will substitute for eyes and mind on the road at all times.

 

[docnjoj]

Yep trikes are the way!
otherDoc

 

[The Toecutter]

Yep trikes are the way!
otherDoc

Before I first rode one, I wasn't expecting I'd like it as much as I did. It's nice not being forced to be aware of the need to balance all the time and expend effort to do so, especially at stops, or to be constantly on the lookout for conditions that could destroy the ability to maintain that balance. This gives more attention available to devote towards observing what is around me on the roads and elsewhere, especially automobile traffic.

 

[Ozzzz]

There's a big difference between 2.8 and 4+, especially at adequate fat bike road pressures. And if knobbies especially, they tend to grab and squirm over ridges rather than get railed by them (to a point)

 

[Tommm]

There's a big difference between 2.8 and 4+, especially at adequate fat bike road pressures. And if knobbies especially, they tend to grab and squirm over ridges rather than get railed by them (to a point)

I've also thought about that. I have a feeling slicks, or semi slicks aren't so hot at grabbing ledges, so they can be fairly fat and they won't work as well.
Who would have thought tires with semi-slick bottoms but knobby sides would be the king of the city.

 

[dustNbone]

Wow makes me wonder how I manage to stay upright on 38mm tires at all. Reading this thread it would seem like I should be falling all over the place. But I don't.

Like once every 5 years at most, probably less than that, I might have a little brainfart that results in something similar to OPs incident. And never on the street, I can't remember that ever happening. It's always somewhere slow, like a sidewalk, my own driveway, etc.

Cruising down the street on the shoulder or in traffic has proven to be the safest riding I do, sidewalks are too much chaos for me. Things going different directions, different speeds on a path that's too narrow.

It's because of this unstructured sharing of a pathway that the OP crashed in the first place, oncoming traffic (with right of way) forced him onto a sub optimal surface in narrow confines and it didn't work out.

They might have intended bikes to be able to use the sidewalk but those bikes traveling between the sidewalk and grass wasn't part of their plan, but when you have pedestrians 2 wide with a stroller, and an oncoming bike, you've created a situation where someone has to use the lawn, and there's no safe way for that to happen.

Because bikes don't belong on the sidewalk.

 

[AHicks]

Because bikes don't belong on the sidewalk.

Speaking for myself, if given a choice between a "bike lane" divided from road traffic by only a painted line, and a sidewalk, even a busy one (which I only rarely experience), I'm going for the sidewalk option every time. Too many people being hurt/run over by inattentive drivers!

Point being, I couldn't disagree with you more. I find "bike lanes" dangerous, well beyond the level of dangerous available on a sidewalk. Call me selfish if you like, but I'd much rather tangle up with a pedestrian than a 3 ton pick up being driven by somebody not paying attention (texting).....

 

[donn]

Speaking for myself, if given a choice between a "bike lane" divided from road traffic by only a painted line, and a sidewalk, even a busy one (which I only rarely experience), I'm going for the sidewalk option every time.

I guess if it gets to that point for me, I'd have consider that it's time for me to retire my bicycle, and do my sidewalk traveling on my feet like everyone else. There are situations, like I imagine most of us have encountered, that may call for a little sidewalk excursion, but next to a bike lane? As a pedestrian I think I would rather resent that.

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

In AZ bikes are allowed on the sidewalks and IMO on the arterial streets without bike lanes it would be suicide to ride in the vehicle lanes... and even the ones with the bike lanes are far too hazardous for my tastes - the vehicle speeds are typically 50-55mph (and often faster) on most of these in the valley.

The state doesn't have laws regarding bikes on sidewalks, it's up to local and AZ adopted the "standard" three classes for defining electric with class 1 & 2 being treated equal to bicycles. Even with Tempe recently passing some of the strictest bicycle laws in the state (home of ASU which certainly influenced that!) it's still ok to use the sidewalks on streets with >25mph speed limit and no bike lanes... albeit with restrictions - must travel the same direction as traffic, not supposed to use electric (no sure how they would "know" as long as you are pedaling) and supposed to pass pedestrians at 5mph... The Tempe laws don't affect me much since I just don't use those roads and if I do I'll risk the citation...


Regarding fat tires (and the low pressures we run them at), they are certainly waaay more tolerant to bumps and lumps on the surface but if you hit something large enough too obliquely you can still get dumped...

 

[markz]

I keep reading about the 3 classes, but never paid much attention to it.
From Bosch website

The three classes are defined as follows:

Class 1: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph.
Class 2: eBikes that also have a maximum speed of 20 mph, but are throttle-assisted.
Class 3: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.

All classes limit the motor’s power to 1 horsepower (750W).

From wiki

Two common definitions being used today are the mechanical horsepower (or imperial horsepower), which is about 745.7 watts, and the metric horsepower, which is approximately 735.5 watts.

:lol: Typical government numbnuts!


Like even a bicycle mechanic can spot a PAS vs throttle vs a motor controller combo that can do 20 or 28mph.

 

[donn]

From Bosch website

The three classes are defined as follows:

Class 1: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph.
Class 2: eBikes that also have a maximum speed of 20 mph, but are throttle-assisted.
Class 3: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.

All classes limit the motor’s power to 1 horsepower (750W).

There's some variation in the legal definitions of classes 1 and 3, at least as laid out in the state regulations where states use these classes. Here are the class definitions from California (same in Washington and Tennessee), from wikipedia:

A "class 1 electric bicycle," or "low-speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle," is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
(2) A "class 2 electric bicycle," or "low-speed throttle-assisted electric bicycle," is a bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle, and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
A "class 3 electric bicycle," or "speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle," is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, (no throttle) and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour, and equipped with a speedometer.
Local government ordinances are allowed to permit or ban any class of electric bicycles on dedicated bicycle paths and trails, with Class 1 & 2 permitted, and Class 3 banned, by default.

Washington's version omits that "(no throttle)" in class 3, and while it serves to clarify that that's what California means, "pedal assist only", I don't think it matters what California means, in Washington. Washington's version simply says that the motor has to drop out if you aren't pedaling, but it doesn't require it to be otherwise controlled by pedal action. Kind of a fine point maybe, and I'm unaware of any bicycle actually set up that way, but it seems to me it would be pretty simple - a crude cadence sensor, and maybe a little electronic gizmo that sends a pulse to the ebrake line if it hasn't gotten any cadence signals within a defined time limit. Then you can use the throttle for everything, as long as you start pedaling once you're under way. That's for class 1 in any of the states that have it, and class 3 in Washington.

 

[wturber]

Class 3: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.

They make the common mistake of saying that Class 3 is "no throttle." That is not true. Class 3 is motor assist only while pedaling. That is not the same thing as "no throttle." I just means that any throttle must not work unless you are pedaling. It is a shame that companies, writers and organizations keep making this mistake.

"(c) “Class 3 electric bicycle” shall mean an electric bicycle equipped with
a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that
ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28
miles per hour."