Phaserunner headless

[Stuartlsl]

Ok so I've had my phaserunner working and wanted to get a higher top speed so i increased the field weakening to 10 and I did achieve higher top but used to much battery. So I connected back to the computer and removed it and in doing so I lost power to the wheel, it still works when I run the autotune but nothing from the throttle. After looking at everything I noticed the throttle voltage was fluctuating 0.10 volts so I thought it might be an issue and disconnected it but issue still occurring, so I disconnected everything from the CA but the cable that provides power and nothing changed. At this point I figured the issue was with the CA so I removed it and ran throttle to the phaserunner with no change, I tried to put field weakening back on still no change. Any ideas on what might be the issue? I took pictures of what i have the PR set to and took a short video showing that the PR is getting signals from throttle and brake that I'm going to attach.
I couldn't load the clip so i uploaded it to YouTube here.

 

[amberwolf]

Since the change happened only after changing settings on the PR, the most likely thing is a PR setting.

What are your exact settings from your saved profile(s) before you made the initial FW change?

And what are they from your saved profile(s) when it was working with FW?

If we compare those to what you have now, there is probably something visibly different we can find to "fix".


Right now, the only "obvious" thing I can see at a quick glance might be that your brake and throttle voltages overlap. (even though they are on separate inputs)

I have not yet setup braking to run from a separate input than throttle on my v1 or v6, only tied together with non-overlapping voltages, so I don't know if overlapping (even with separate inputs) is an issue.

What happens if you set the braking voltage range to below the throttle range?

And maybe set the deadband back to 0?


Or, what happens if you save your profile (as each of the three possible, as separate files), then reset the PR to factory and then retune the motor back to what it should be, but use the rest of the PR at defaults? Does it at least spin up the motor on the "test stand" (offground)?

 

[Stuartlsl]

The only thing that was changed was the field weakening when I lost throttle response. Literally nothing else was changed. I tried default settings before removing the CA and still had no throttle response. Also when I lost throttle response still with the CA when I run self tune the wheel turns without problem, I haven't tried it again since removing the CA assuming it would still work as it was because I see nothing wrong with communication from the PR to the wheel. It seems like there is just an issue with the PR sending signal to the wheel.

 

[amberwolf]

The wheel (motor) doesn't have anything inside it that can communicate with anything.

Thanks for the info about the separate vs common brake/throttle signals.

Do you see the actual throttle voltage varying as normal in the PR setup program?

Do you see any braking voltage that would cause braking or prevent operation instead?


If there are no settings different now than before, and it doesn't work like it did before, even with the exact same hardware configuration, then the most likley fault is a hardware problem with the PR itself, most likely FETs. I would expect that autotune couldn't work if this were the case, however, and the same is true if the motor had a problem preventing operation.

Since autotune does work, and the motor does work during autotune, then the most likely thing is that a setting is *not* the same as before, even though it might be showing you that it is the same inside the setup program itself. In that event, it may need a full factory reset and then resetup to fix.

 

[Stuartlsl]

The wheel (motor) doesn't have anything inside it that can communicate with anything.

Thanks for the info about the separate vs common brake/throttle signals.

Do you see the actual throttle voltage varying as normal in the PR setup program?

Do you see any braking voltage that would cause braking or prevent operation instead?


If there are no settings different now than before, and it doesn't work like it did before, even with the exact same hardware configuration, then the most likley fault is a hardware problem with the PR itself, most likely FETs. I would expect that autotune couldn't work if this were the case, however, and the same is true if the motor had a problem preventing operation.

Since autotune does work, and the motor does work during autotune, then the most likely thing is that a setting is *not* the same as before, even though it might be showing you that it is the same inside the setup program itself. In that event, it may need a full factory reset and then resetup to fix.

Thanks for your help with every issue I've posted. I loaded default setting again and still nothing, started to really get frustrated and figured I would try to load default for one of the older versions and was put at ease when I twist the throttle and the wheel started spinning. Its late so Ill actually tune it tomorrow but happy to see movement on throttle ❤

 

[amberwolf]

Let's cross our fingers, legs, and eyes that it stays working.

If it doesn't, then I'd verify these I'd posted before, since you could have a connection fault somewhere (like at the PR) for throttle or brake:

Do you see the actual throttle voltage varying as normal in the PR setup program?

Do you see any braking voltage that would cause braking or prevent operation instead?

 

[Stuartlsl]

Nope getting "Warnings[0]: Communication Timeout" right after I try to use the throttle.

 

[Stuartlsl]

Any Ideas??????

 

[Stuartlsl]

you know what it dont matter, I can plug it into the the bike and ride it with warnings I dont give a and I get a fault for the brake when I pull it too but again dont flippin care it clears itself once I let off. All I care is that it gets me to work and back as Ive missed WAY to much from thins thing being down

 

[amberwolf]

Any Ideas??????

I've been waiting to hear back on the various suggested test results, as I dont' have any new suggestions without knowing what's actually happening in those.

 

[Stuartlsl]

I've been waiting to hear back on the various suggested test results, as I dont' have any new suggestions without knowing what's actually happening in those.

Do you see the actual throttle voltage varying as normal in the PR setup program?
throttle voltage varying as normal as in the voltage that I'm applying with the throttle? Yes the voltage that I'm applying is the same as i see in the PR. I do not see the .10 volt flux that i was seeing on the CA when i had it connected.

Do you see any braking voltage that would cause braking or prevent operation instead?
No, not unless i apply brake, and without the CA connected i don't see a flux in throttle voltage without doing anything.

If there are no settings different now than before, and it doesn't work like it did before, even with the exact same hardware configuration, then the most likley fault is a hardware problem with the PR itself, most likely FETs. I would expect that autotune couldn't work if this were the case, however, and the same is true if the motor had a problem preventing operation.
Autotune never has a problem running.

Since autotune does work, and the motor does work during autotune, then the most likely thing is that a setting is *not* the same as before, even though it might be showing you that it is the same inside the setup program itself. In that event, it may need a full factory reset and then resetup to fix.
In the clip i just uploaded i show i reset all settings to default. but i get no throttle signal as im running on the 9 mains plug not the wp8 for the CA. so i set input to input 1 which is the 9 mains signal. I now have throttle input signal but i get hall stall warning (understandable as im not connected to the wheel) but is see hall signals changing and motor moving tho its not connected. I figure that its getting something because being on an analog source so i change it to hall A source but changes nothing.
Im pretty sure resetting values for my battery and etc would change the signal being picked up from idk where.

 

[amberwolf]

Without the controller being connected to the motor, it isn't really a valid operational test being performed on the hall inputs or phase outputs of the controller while trying to operate the controller.

I would expect that you *should* get zero signals on either one without a motor attached, but with a throttle input commanding the controller to try to run an unconnected motor, the phase signals being spewed out on the "antenna" of the unconnected phase wires from the controller, they could be received back on the hall lines as RF noise and detected as spurious hall signals by the controller.

The 5v pullups on the controller hall inputs *should* prevent this, but if the noise is sufficiently "loud" it could overcome it, depending on the design of the inputs. I've never tested this scenario on any controller.

The closest scenario that could apply is leaving the hall inputs disconnected because it's running a sensorless motor, but in that event the phase wires are still connected to a motor, and not just being antennas for the signals on them. (there is always some signal radiation from the phase wires and the motor, but in a closed loop with the motor it mostly flows thru the wires and back to the controller).


If a factory reset and the manually resetting each setting back to your normal known-working settings doesn't fix it, and all the hardware outside the PR is working normally, and the PR indicates it is getting all the correct signals into it, but is still not attempting to run the motor, then the most likely issue is some firmware bug or corrupt setting that isn't being cleared by any of the changes you make (even though you *see* all the right values onscreen to match your previous setup). (since it couldn't be a "hardware" failure of the PR in driving the motor, as it works to autotune it, and it can't be a hw failure of the PR in reading the throttle or brake, as it displays those correctly on the setup software.


If all of those are true, I don't know anything else you can do to correct the issue. At that point, either the PR would have to be replaced, or reflashed firmware and ensuring all the settings are completely cleared out, but I don't know of anything that allows an end-user to do this. The PR setup software has a "factory mode" but it requires a password to access it, which I presume must come from ebikes.ca, and I do not know what might be available within that mode.

You could try using the File - Advanced Export to create a file that has *all* parameters from the controller, including stuff you can't normally change, and either examine the resulting XML file in Notepad, etc., or send that to ebikes.ca to see if they can see anything in it that might cause this problem. I don't know which parameters in it are relevant to this issue, but there are a number of throttle, etc labelled parameters that might be involved.