Quick-disconnect connector for controller?

[pants_optional]

Hey all, please be gentle with me. I have been searching here and elsewhere for some time but haven't come up with what looks like a definitive answer.

I bought an eBikeling conversion kit some months ago with the intent of putting it onto a Dahon folder. I haven't done that yet, because I want to be able to take the battery *and* controller off the bike while it's parked, sorta like what I think you can do with the Brompton lunchbag (as Bromptons are way above my pay grade, I could be wrong about said Brompton lunchbag being removable but I'm pretty sure it is!).

I'd like to put the controller into a portable thing / onto a portable thing / into-onto a portable thing and be able to quick-connect / -disconnect the throttle, Hall sensor, brake lever, all the low-voltage signal wires via a single connector so that I will only have 2-3 connection snaps to make, total, before I take off either to or from the bike rack at work.

Be nice if these things were also water-resistant or -proofish, although I can probably make the connection inside whatever the portable thing is and maybe somewhat shield the connection from moisture that way.

What are some things people use for this kinda thing in this kinda realm? I have found mention of MIL connectors but those are absurdly expensive, and I do not have enough current-day trade vocabulary in the world of quick connects to be able to get much further. (if I mention "Molex" is it immediately clear I was born in the 70s?)

Thank you in advance!

 

[larsb]

It all depends on how many connections, i personally don’t use brake cutoffs even on my emoto so why have them on the dahon. The cheap ones bind up in freezing temperatures which leaves your bike unpowered. PAS on the other hand is quite useful to have.

The motor phase plus hall sensor connectors like higo z910 are quite nice, those reduce from 4 connections to 1. I don’t think you’ll find any 11pin connectors that has pins with motor phase current capability ( in order to get the throttle in same connector) so two disconnects is probably minimum if you don’t sketch your own custom connector and 3d-print. Then more pins and larger size means more difficult to mate so i’m not sure that’ll be easier.

Check here, some good info:
https://ebikes.ca/learn/connectors.html

 

[pants_optional]

Hey, thanks for that Grin link! For whatever reason this kind of information has not been as easy to find on various ebike resources, probably because it's one of the less sexy topics. I do plan to keep the stock battery and controller connects as shipped in the box (thus the "two or three connections"). Up to three connects / disconnects is doable for me on each use and I definitely want to keep the high amp / volt connections stock. Probably not ready to try and devise a cool sliding power-tool-style connector or whatever, I just want to get out and ride the thing after staring at the parts in boxes for way too long. I'll see what Grin has for me on that page - thanks again!

 

[ZeroEm]

by pants_optional » Jan 07 2023 6:16am

Hey, thanks for that Grin link! For whatever reason this kind of information has not been as easy to find on various ebike resources, probably because it's one of the less sexy topics. I do plan to keep the stock battery and controller connects as shipped in the box (thus the "two or three connections"). Up to three connects / disconnects is doable for me on each use and I definitely want to keep the high amp / volt connections stock. Probably not ready to try and devise a cool sliding power-tool-style connector or whatever, I just want to get out and ride the thing after staring at the parts in boxes for way too long. I'll see what Grin has for me on that page - thanks again!

You can make an adapter to fit the second bike. Keep them different. so the wrong ones do not plug together. For rain make sure you had drip loops. Hard to keep water out just direct it to flow away from connections.

 

[E-HP]

I want to be able to take the battery *and* controller off the bike while it's parked, sorta like what I think you can do with the Brompton lunchbag (as Bromptons are way above my pay grade, I could be wrong about said Brompton lunchbag being removable but I'm pretty sure it is!).

I'd like to put the controller into a portable thing / onto a portable thing / into-onto a portable thing and be able to quick-connect / -disconnect the throttle, Hall sensor, brake lever, all the low-voltage signal wires via a single connector so that I will only have 2-3 connection snaps to make, total, before I take off either to or from the bike rack at work.

A few questions

Are you placing both the controller and battery in the same portable thing, like on the Swytch bikes, or keeping the separate?
Which kit do you have? Most of their kits now have the Higo waterproof connectors, but the old ones uses JSTs.
How many cycles are you designing the interface for? (will you be removing it daily, a few times a day, less often?)

 

[pants_optional]

A few questions

Are you placing both the controller and battery in the same portable thing, like on the Swytch bikes, or keeping the separate?
Which kit do you have? Most of their kits now have the Higo waterproof connectors, but the old ones uses JSTs.
How many cycles are you designing the interface for? (will you be removing it daily, a few times a day, less often?)

These are all fantastic questions, thank you!

1) I haven't made up my mind on whether battery and controller will go together, but I got their "dolphin" water bottle battery and it would probably make one heck of an awkward package, so most likely the controller and the battery will be separated on the build if not by very much. (one problem I've also got is where the heck all this stuff is going to go on my Dahon, with a non-round single downtube, no factory water bottle braze-ons anywhere, a rear rack which is the only carriage option I've really got that maintains the foldability, etc.)

2) The stuff is presently still in a box but I'm 99% sure that the signal connections are exclusively using the Higo connectors as shipped. I'll update if I shortly discover that I am misremembering this.

3) Ideally I would remove the controller 1-2x daily when it's a riding day. Having done a little digging on that aforementioned Grin connector-summary article (which could be and likely is several years old at minimum), they really talk up the Hirose DF62 - but I note the spec sheet for those connectors seemingly specify a rating for only 30 mating cycles! They also talk about them as an alternative for JSTs - I can't find any similar data on how JSTs stack up cycle-rating-wise, but this all gives me a heck of a lot of pause.

 

[ZeroEm]

Connections is an on going issue, some just wire direct, others need to change them out as they ware out or get arched from higher voltage. 30 cycles for me would be forever. For you it is quite different. Might think about looking for something that connects up easy. Some connectors are surprisingly hard. you may want to test some to see how you like them. Some that are easy will lose connection and cause issues.

Don't know if you have crimpers, if you don't might be worth your while to get a good set. Don't cut your cables to short until you are sure you have what you want.

 

[99t4]

...non-round single downtube, no factory water bottle braze-ons anywhere...

Rivnuts have worked well for me for mounting batteries (technically, the bracket the battery slides on to).

Interestingly, upon closer inspection, many factory "braze-on" are actually rivnuts. :wink:

 

[amberwolf]

3) Ideally I would remove the controller 1-2x daily when it's a riding day. Having done a little digging on that aforementioned Grin connector-summary article (which could be and likely is several years old at minimum), they really talk up the Hirose DF62 - but I note the spec sheet for those connectors seemingly specify a rating for only 30 mating cycles! They also talk about them as an alternative for JSTs - I can't find any similar data on how JSTs stack up cycle-rating-wise, but this all gives me a heck of a lot of pause.

JSTs and similar types of inline and PCB-mount connectors are not meant to be connection-cycled; they're meant to be plugged and left, except for servicing, so they don't need to be rated for a lot of connection cycles. The Hirose is probably similar intent.

I think that both Mouser and Digikey have cycle ratings as one of the filterable items in their connector selection charts, so you could see if anything pops out there, then look around for that type if you don't want to buy from them directly.

For power (and phase) connections that don't need waterproofing, Andersons are tough and work well when properly used and installed, but they're large for the current they deliver. There are also panel mount versions that could be installed in the controller housing, so that you can leave the entire cable end on the bike and not carry dangling wires off the controller. Waterproofing is harder but not totally impossible.

Signal connections...it's tougher to find a cheap, easy to find, waterproof solution for this, that can also handle a lot of connection cycling (especially and still remain waterproof!)

If you can use something else for the waterproofing, you could use a USB cable; they're intended for frequent connection cycling. A simple way to get four signal wires is to use a standard USB-A extension cable cut in half, and wire the outer shield to ground, then use the four contacts as four signals. This works for motor halls, for instance. (Kingfish used this method for his epic coastal trip bike, since the USB plug fit thru the motor axle nut; I think he used the micro USB version but I'd use the regular size for a bit less fragility). I'd use a good brand-name cable (belkin, etc) rather than the cheapest ebay/amazon/ali* stuff, though.

THe USB B end is probably easier to deal with (and waterproof) than the A end, but I haven't used extension cables for those (if they even make any), so you'd probably have to use a regular A-B cable, cut the A end off and wire that directly to the stuff on the bike, then install a socket (taken off an old device, for instance) into the controller casing to plug the B end into. (then you don't have the cabling hanging off the controller as you carry it around).

USB3 gives you some options with even more signal wires, as long as the cabling doesn't contain any active electronics (which is why USB-C isn't really useful for this).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/USB_2.0_and_3.0_connectors.svg/330px-USB_2.0_and_3.0_connectors.svg.png

 

[MxusMick]

If you use the learning wires after plugging in your controller, then you unplug your controller, you may have to relearn the controller again when you connect your wiring. If you apply full throttle to a controller which hasnt 'learned' you can fry it.

 

[Eastwood]

If you use the learning wires after plugging in your controller, then you unplug your controller, you may have to relearn the controller again when you connect your wiring. If you apply full throttle to a controller which hasnt 'learned' you can fry it.

If you look at his profile, he hasn’t been online since January 8. A lot of these new members ask questions and never even come back for the answer.

 

[ZeroEm]

I was in the hospital in ICU for a week does that count?

 

[Two4Seven SuprDan]

yes but even still some of us others are grateful to have this discussion here and can make some decisions based upon already talked about topics!

I was in the hospital in ICU for a week does that count?

I hope you are well!

 

[Eastwood]

I was in the hospital in ICU for a week does that count?

Sorry to hear this friend! Losing our health really puts everything in perspective as far as what’s important, right. I’m no stranger to Pain and health issues myself. Hope you’re felling better friend!

 

[ZeroEm]

Getting better everyday just at a slow pace. What would help me is to get back on my trike and get outside of the house. It will be short rides at first. Will let the trike do most of the work that is what I built it for.

 

[larsb]

Some ebike connector options here:

https://www.mutuallc.com/products-p2.html