Qulbix Q140MD VS. LMX VS. Neematic VS.???

[benjamin84]

IF you take it easy (retired grandpa mode,the way ben rode in the forest ride video) then it will not overheat.

Haha, yes I think that is the clue Remember this is not a motorbike. It is a bicycle with a lot of power available for shorter bursts. It will also climb absolutely anything, but it won't climb for miles and miles and miles at super high speeds, there is simply too much power going into a passively cooled motor.

From OP's comments I think this bike will be great for his use. And from engates comments I think you would be better served by a KTM Freeride-E which you can ride full throttle all day as it is liquid cooled and has a radiator

 

[C158]

Haha ok fair enough.

Hopefully the other poster can chime in on the middle gear as that is probably what I’d go with. This will certainly be ridden on the road and gravel paths much more than you. I want to be able to take off like a rocket, be able to climb (road hills) and hit 40mph to boot. With my weight and from what you guys are saying that should not be a problem.....I think

 

[engate]

You can go for the mid speed chainwheels,if you overheat it then you can easily buy the low speed one.But I don't think you will overheat the motor.

Yeah the KTM is nice,unfortunately it's not as nice as the alta redshift was.The ktm is 110kg with 22HP..alta was 117kg with 50HP. So sad that they went out of business

 

[benjamin84]

Totally agree, the Redshift was amazing. I enquired about getting one registered in Europe a few weeks before they went bust. The Q140MD turned out to be a much better solution for me though, the size difference between that and a proper Enduro like the Redshift (or my 690 Enduro) is immense.

 

[C158]

So does the motor/batteries heat up quicker with the high speed setting or high torque? Based on the responses I’d likely go for the mid.

Question, what speed should I be able to sustain going up let’s say a 10 degree grade at full throttle?

 

[benjamin84]

Full throttle, for any length of time, will overheat the motor, no doubt. Basically the motor produces heat much quicker than it can dissipate, that is just a function of the design. If you want something that doesn't have that problem you are unfortunately going to have to get an electric motorbike with a full on advanced cooling system. But they cost a lot, require a license, and weigh 110-200kg

I'll give a hill-climb a try at some point, and extended climb at a steady 25kph (need to keep that speed if I am to use this thing on the road unfortunately).

 

[C158]

I understand for a length of time. But let’s say I full throttle to get to speed and then back off. Will it be able to sustain speed fairly well on a slight to moderate grade for a while? In the promotional video on YouTube a commentor asks the owner if you can always use 15kw. He reply’s saying that yes you can as it uses that power to get to speed, but then backs off to 3 to 5 kw once at speed.

So, with that, I’m curious if you can back off the power a bit once at speed going up a hill and still maintain speed of 30 to 40mph do to momentum combined with torque resulting in the motor being just fine.

 

[engate]

No it won't be able to sustain that speed for a long time.By long time I mean >5 minutes. The motor is rated for 3000W continuous.Anything over that and it's going to overheat slowly or quickly based on the load.If it's on max load then it's going to overheat in about ~15 seconds.I can overheat it on a 20 degree incline in about 20 seconds or less.
Mine needs about ~2200W to sustain 55kph on flat roads with the knobby tires.

 

[C158]

Ok that makes sense. On my drive home today envisioning being on the bike it dawned on me that for the most part I might be coasting in many areas. Once you let off the "gas" I assume you're free riding along just like on a normal bike if you were to pedal vigorously then stop - right? If so, I could blast to 40mph or so then let off the gas on the flats or slight decline and yes, you would slow on the flat you wouldn't be just stopped or have any unnatural resistance? So boom, 40mph on the flat or slight incline after 5 seconds, let 100% off the gas 38mph, then 32mph, then 26mph (coasting)- all while you went maybe 500ft or so and 10 seconds went by, then hit the "gas" again back up to 40 let off, so on and so forth. This is how that would work right? And doing it like so, would keep the engine under virtually no stress with around 85KG worth of stuff on it.

I feel like you just speed on up then coast along and when you want/need more power you just power up real quick.

Thank you for the stats if you need 2300 to go approx 35mph on the flats, that means you have room 700w (more power than most commercial local e-bikes have period) for a slight incline to bring it to 3000, which you could do sustained. That is pretty good. With my weight I am guessing I could keep it steady 40+mph on a 5 to 10 degree grade then with no issues of overheat and on the flats would might only need 2000 to keep it at max speed.......?


Is all this easily viewed on the LCD screen? When I look down what will I see on the main display? Speed, W being used, Engine temp, ????

If this does overheat does it just flash at you to stop? And if so, how long is the cool down period?

 

[engate]

Yeah it's kinda like a bicycle when you let off the throttle. But keep in mind that it's way less efficient.

The display shows the motor temp,voltage,speed,and load in amps.The controller cuts power once the motors gets 140 celsius or more. Resumes power once it's below 120. It takes about 2-3 minutes to cool down.

The sustainable power is not exactly 3000W. I didn't test it yet. It might be 3500 or 4000W because it has some custom cooling fins on the motor along with ferrofluid inside.

"This is how that would work right? And doing it like so, would keep the engine under virtually no stress with around 85KG worth of stuff on it."

Not really mate. To accelerate to 40mph quickly you need way more power than 3000W You're actually stressing the motor even more by slowing down and then accelerating to 40mph

Hard to tell how it will behave under you to be honest. The weight difference between you and me is huge.

 

[C158]

"""Not really mate. To accelerate to 40mph quickly you need way more power than 3000W You're actually stressing the motor even more by slowing down and then accelerating to 40mph"""

I get that, what I am saying is yes, you are using full potential to get there quick, but then you let off the gas for a while and coast then gas again. While coasting, the engine would be "off" for sake of argument right? Its not working as I am off the gas.

Also, how does the throttle react at high speeds? For example let's say I am coasting at 30mph and hit the gas, do you hear or feel the motor catching up to your RPM then "kick in"? Or does the computer instantly tell the motor where it needs to be and kicks in like a car - right away?

Are you able to feather the throttle at speeds? Just like in a car?


Thank you

 

[benjamin84]

The motor is directly connected to the rear wheel, there is no freewheel (or clutch) inbetween. This would be like a manual car when you coast, the motor slowly reduces it's RPM as the road speed drops. What this also gives you is the possibility to use the motor as a brake, in other words regen braking. The Q140MD has a dedicated thumb-lever for regen which works really quite well.

So, after coasting, when you get on the throttle again you start feeding the motor power and it will begin producing torque, slowly starting to accellerate you again. No "speed up" needed.*

The only freewheel on this bike is between the motor and the pedals, which means the pedals don't always have to rotate at the same speed as the motor.


*As a side note, this is one of the things that are different between a speed controlled throttle (as seen in ECO mode) and a torque controlled throttle. Torque control functions as I described above, but speed control tries to map a given amount of twist (for the sake of argument, say 10 degrees) to a given speed (say 10mph). If you are coasting at 20mph, in ECO mode, and apply 10 degrees of throttle twist, you are "requesting" 10mph from the bike. It will then actively slow you down to 10mph by applying regen braking before it applies torque to keep you at that speed.

Torque control on the other hand maps a given amount of throttle twist to a given amount of torque (in reality I believe this is controlling amperage, but amperage more or less equeals torque in an electric motor). So say you are coasting at 20mph, and you apply 10 degrees of twist. This gives you a small amount of additional torque from the acelleration. Now depending on if you are going uphill or downhill that may or may not be enough to result in accelleration, but the controller doesn't care as it is giving you the torque you have requested. This is exactly like you would expect from a petrol engined car or motorbike.

 

[C158]

Thank you for the explanation.

So really, when you let off the gas it does want to slow you down a bit. It’s not like a bike where it freely glides you along until gravity says otherwise or you use the brake. The engine will be slowing you down? Would be nice if was 100% free glide once off the gas. Maybe we will see such things built into these bikes in 5 years or so....

The way it operates in eco mode seems a bit goofey? Essentially if I understand correctly, the gas could potentially slow you down and act as a brake? What would then happen if you use more throttle? It would then go from wanting to slow you down causing your inertia to go one way then speed up moving it another. Seems like it would be an odd experience.

I would want to use eco mode going around town where any speed was not needed.

 

[engate]

Yeah the motor and the rear wheel is connected together with a chain without any kind of freewheel.That's the main reason why it decelerates way faster than a bicycle or a BBSHD electric bike once you let off the throttle. If there would be a freewheel then regen braking wouldn't be possible.I think it's worth the price I can easily regen brake on a 20 degree downhill.If I would brake with the disc brakes it would get really hot really quickly.It saves you some money on the brake pads as well.

And eco or not eco doesn't matter. If you go full throttle downhill and you exceed the max speed let's say you're going 60 instead of the max 55 then it will slow you down to 55.

 

[C158]

How powerful is the regen? Going down a steep grade and just using that do you see a drastic increase in battery life? Say you went down a hill - a long steep one - using the regen brake the whole time, would that equate to maybe 5% increase in battery life?

So the gas could actually act as a brake if you were going faster than max speed? It would be in regen mode, right?

 

[benjamin84]

And eco or not eco doesn't matter. If you go full throttle downhill and you exceed the max speed let's say you're going 60 instead of the max 55 then it will slow you down to 55.

There is a big difference on mine. Do the following test:

Coast at 20mph (or a speed lower than the top speed you have set for ECO mode)
Roll on the throttle very gently
In normal mode the bike will never apply any regen
In ECO mode the bike will apply regen braking until it brings the speed back down to whatever you have "requested" by the throttle opening

I have never seen negative amps (regen) from full power mode, even at 50kph, but that could be because I haven't costed above whatever limit there is to the top speed there. In any case, ECO mode will apply braking even if you are nowhere near it's top speed.

If this is different on your bike it may explain why yours feels like a speed control throttle while mine feels like a torque control setup?

How powerful is the regen? Going down a steep grade and just using that do you see a drastic increase in battery life? Say you went down a hill - a long steep one - using the regen brake the whole time, would that equate to maybe 5% increase in battery life?

The regen is very powerful. It is more than enough to keep you going at quite a slow pace even on steep hills, and as engate says it's well worth the sacrifice of not having a freewheel Not sure I'd call the battery life increase drastic, but if you use it actively I'm sure you could see 5% increase at least. It's also really useful on loose rocky descents, it functions as a kind of ABS on the rear as it will never lock up.

 

[C158]

So Is the feeling very much like being on a dirt bike when not engaging the clutch except you only have one gear? In other words you always feel “in touch” with the motor?

And if so, how is pushing it around like? I understand that peddling is only done on flat surfaces or at speed on its own. But simply just pushing it around not engaging the pedals. Do the wheels, in that case, move freely?

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

So Is the feeling very much like being on a dirt bike when not engaging the clutch except you only have one gear? In other words you always feel “in touch” with the motor?

And if so, how is pushing it around like? I understand that peddling is only done on flat surfaces or at speed on its own. But simply just pushing it around not engaging the pedals. Do the wheels, in that case, move freely?

the motor has magnetic "cogging" .. when you push the bike or pedal without motor power, the motor will rotate via the chain and you will feel this resistance.. (it would be possible to use a freewheel, but it wouldn't survive the high motor power)..

 

[benjamin84]

the motor has magnetic "cogging" .. when you push the bike or pedal without motor power, the motor will rotate via the chain and you will feel this resistance.. (it would be possible to use a freewheel, but it wouldn't survive the high motor power)..

Yup, this is correct. The resistance is surprisingly small though, which is one reason I'm not that worried about running out of battery. Rolling the bike around, even uphill, is not a problem, so if I get caught out in the forest without power and can just walk the bike back to the nearest downhill and regen my way home It helps that almost all my forest riding areas start at low points and I'll be riding uphill in to the forest.

 

[benjamin84]

So Is the feeling very much like being on a dirt bike when not engaging the clutch except you only have one gear? In other words you always feel “in touch” with the motor?

Yeah, pretty much exactly like that, although the engine braking, if you don't use regen, is much much less than a dirtbike engine. However if you do use the regen thumb lever you can get much more engine braking than you can from a gas bike. Best of both worlds really, but it does take a bit of time to get used to if, like me, you are used to riding a regular dirtbike / motorbike

 

[C158]

Got it. Makes much more sense.


What is “real life” stats on the battery? If I milling around on the roads,side walk, etc going from 15mph to 30mph then back down to zero to stop for something, then speed up to 40 for a few seconds....etc. In other words, light to moderate “fun” riding getting around time.....how long can I truly expect the battery to last?


Also, I got an email from Qulbix stating the battery has a life of 400 charge cycles? Seems low? I feel like you could blow through that is only two years or so. Replacement cost being around $1200 to $1500

 

[C158]

I am getting somewhat close to making a decision. I sent a follow up email to them a couple days ago and am waiting to hear back.

It’s quite a large purchase with so many (for sake of argument) unknowns. And this goes for ALL the hyper powered E bikes. Between google, YouTube and this sight there seems to be the same few “faces” talking about these. It does make you wonder how many are actually sold from Qulbix and the others as well

 

[benjamin84]

The testing I've done so far, with knobby tires on gravel roads and tracks, show about 30-35 Wh/km in ECO mode. More time on paved roads would be considerably better I reckon, on a flat footpath I was seeing between 18 and 20 Wh/km, but I very rarely ride on the road so I can't say for sure.

As for customer reviews, I felt the same way you do, and wondered why there are so few reviews out. I guess it just comes down to the cost and the niche application. These bikes don't comply to any legal restrictions, even in ECO mode the pedal assist is missing for European laws, and they are very expensive for what is a toy to most people.

Still though, I love mine, even though I've spent the last month just riding around my yard and up and down my driveway practicing wheelies The snow is melting more and more every day now so hopefully the forest trails should be rideable in a few weeks time! I will be posting lots of boring youtube videos from my first trips, so watch out for those

 

[benjamin84]

Also, I got an email from Qulbix stating the battery has a life of 400 charge cycles? Seems low? I feel like you could blow through that is only two years or so. Replacement cost being around $1200 to $1500

That does seem low, but that is 400 full cycles from topped up to entirely empty. At 30 Wh/km that is (400*2160)/30 = 28.800 km, or 17.856 miles. That's quite a bit of riding

In my case I reckon by the time I've done 400 charge cycles there will be considerably better batterytech out and I'll want to swap anyways, either for a lighter bike with similar range if I start to feel like an outlaw with this one, or keep the bike and buy a new batterypack (most likely!)

 

[C158]

17,000 miles is quite a bit to be sure.

How many miles (or KM) do you think I should get out of one charge with light to moderate riding bouncing around the city and onto bikes paths etc?

Is the stated 50 miles or so under such riding accurate in your opinion?