Road ebikes

[billybronco]

I'm in the process of turning a retro norco 12 speed road bike into an e-bike. I'm looking for some opinions on drop bar throttles. What's available and what works for you.
Thx.

 

[Chalo]

I think you should instead think about why no vehicle with both handlebars and a throttle has drop bars. Heck, think about why nothing that uses handlebars has drop bars, except for racing bicycles and recreational poser bicycles from countries where bicycles aren't taken seriously as transportation.

It's easy and cheap to put real handlebars and levers on your bike. Probably cheaper than working with what you have now. Then you don't have to worry about coming up with some one-off custom solution for putting a throttle on terrible handlebars.

 

[billybronco]

I think you should instead think about why no vehicle with both handlebars and a throttle has drop bars. Heck, think about why nothing that uses handlebars has drop bars, except for racing bicycles and recreational poser bicycles from countries where bicycles aren't taken seriously as transportation.

It's easy and cheap to put real handlebars and levers on your bike. Probably cheaper than working with what you have now. Then you don't have to worry about coming up with some one-off custom solution for putting a throttle on terrible handlebars.

I find straight bars hurt my hands and wrists. I tried padded grips, bull horns & cane grips. Nothing helped so I switched to drop bars decades ago.
I have chronic heart disease now so I'm trying to build an e-bike so I can tour again.
If straight bars work for you then, ride with them. They don't work for me.

 

[lnanek]

I feel similar about straight bars. I always put cruiser bars on myself and hold like an ice cream cone. Not difficult to add twist or thumb throttle that way either.

Never seen drop bars on an ebike. The motor provides plenty of power, so seems kind of pointless to contort your body like that. It's giving up being able to steer strongly and shift weight back for braking too, both of which are more important with motors. So no benefits and only cons with motors. If wind resistance is a problem maybe add fairings?

Maybe some of the "stealth" models or there have a solution? There are racer bars from the motorcycle world, but they are still single hand position to maintain access to the controls.

Personally I only use throttle to accelerate from a stop after stop lights and just have my PAS sensitivity cranked up otherwise. So maybe you can just ditch the throttle and do that if you really want multiple position drop bars. I can still hit 30mph on PAS without throttle since I have the controller set to output a lot more power for only a little more effort.

I do use cruise control sometimes too, though, where you hold throttle 3 seconds and it sticks until you brake. So theoretically you could slap a couple thumb throttles on your drop bars, enable very short time period activated cruise control in your controller settings, and just use them briefly during riding to setup your desired throttle level almost like shifters.

 

[E-HP]

I find straight bars hurt my hands and wrists. I tried padded grips, bull horns & cane grips. Nothing helped so I switched to drop bars decades ago.
I have chronic heart disease now so I'm trying to build an e-bike so I can tour again.
If straight bars work for you then, ride with them. They don't work for me.

What power level are you planning on. You might want to look at the build thread subforum for some ideas. There are a few road bike builds, and if you are running relatively low power (less than 500W), then you may be able to just use a button with a set throttle output.

Kepler Friction drive comes of age.

The arduino would be a great solution. Unfortunately my experience with arduino is limited but if anyone is interested in designing an arduino solution that will do the job, it would be great for the ES community. You would need the device to do the following steps Start drive sequence: 1)...

endless-sphere.com

 

[billybronco]

I feel similar about straight bars. I always put cruiser bars on myself and hold like an ice cream cone. Not difficult to add twist or thumb throttle that way either.

Never seen drop bars on an ebike. The motor provides plenty of power, so seems kind of pointless to contort your body like that. It's giving up being able to steer strongly and shift weight back for braking too, both of which are more important with motors. So no benefits and only cons with motors. If wind resistance is a problem maybe add fairings?

Maybe some of the "stealth" models or there have a solution? There are racer bars from the motorcycle world, but they are still single hand position to maintain access to the controls.

Personally I only use throttle to accelerate from a stop after stop lights and just have my PAS sensitivity cranked up otherwise. So maybe you can just ditch the throttle and do that if you really want multiple position drop bars. I can still hit 30mph on PAS without throttle since I have the controller set to output a lot more power for only a little more effort.

I do use cruise control sometimes too, though, where you hold throttle 3 seconds and it sticks until you brake. So theoretically you could slap a couple thumb throttles on your drop bars, enable very short time period activated cruise control in your controller settings, and just use them briefly during riding to setup your desired throttle level almost like shifters.

Hi Inanek
I'm new to the e-bike world. My intention is to biuld an e-bike that i could continue to tour with. Just a little help up the hills.
You mentioned pas & cruise control. I've read a bit about pas bottom brackets. They are available locally & may work well for what i want to do. I'm not familiar with cruise control. I'll have to have a look at my controller to see if I have that option. How is your cruise control different than your pas?

 

[billybronco]

What power level are you planning on. You might want to look at the build thread subforum for some ideas. There are a few road bike builds, and if you are running relatively low power (less than 500W), then you may be able to just use a button with a set throttle output.

Kepler Friction drive comes of age.

The arduino would be a great solution. Unfortunately my experience with arduino is limited but if anyone is interested in designing an arduino solution that will do the job, it would be great for the ES community. You would need the device to do the following steps Start drive sequence: 1)...

endless-sphere.com

I have components that I had on a retro fuji. Headset issues made it unsafe to ride. I used a thumb throttle mounted on the stem. This proved awkward as I'm most comfortable riding on the hoods. I dialed the power down to where the battery would move me about 6 km per hr. It's a bit frightening but it will do 40 km per hr at 100%. I've been looking for thumb throttles on line. I'm trying to decide between 2 thumb throttles (one on the hood & one on the table) or a pas system. I think I can make the throttles work for what I want. A little help up the hills.
What your doing is way beyond my sphere of knowledge. I'll be buying my components not building them. I've got a sm connector kit coming today and that's going to be enough a learning curve for me.
I'm curious about the throttle button on your left hood. Did you build it or purchase it? I like how you buried the cable in the down tube. Really clean looking.

 

[E-HP]

I have components that I had on a retro fuji. Headset issues made it unsafe to ride. I used a thumb throttle mounted on the stem. This proved awkward as I'm most comfortable riding on the hoods. I dialed the power down to where the battery would move me about 6 km per hr. It's a bit frightening but it will do 40 km per hr at 100%. I've been looking for thumb throttles on line. I'm trying to decide between 2 thumb throttles (one on the hood & one on the table) or a pas system. I think I can make the throttles work for what I want. A little help up the hills.
What your doing is way beyond my sphere of knowledge. I'll be buying my components not building them. I've got a sm connector kit coming today and that's going to be enough a learning curve for me.
I'm curious about the throttle button on your left hood. Did you build it or purchase it? I like how you buried the cable in the down tube. Really clean looking.

You'll need to ask Kepler, since I was just posting an example thread. If you need some other options, I used on of these lever style throttles for a while. It provides a different angle of travel than the typical thumb throttle, so may be something you could adapt for your layout.

Amazon.com : Thumb Throttle Speed Control Push Down for Electric Scooter Pocket Bike Electric Bike : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Thumb Throttle Speed Control Push Down for Electric Scooter Pocket Bike Electric Bike : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

 

[billybronco]

You'll need to ask Kepler, since I was just posting an example thread. If you need some other options, I used on of these lever style throttles for a while. It provides a different angle of travel than the typical thumb throttle, so may be something you could adapt for your layout.

Amazon.com : Thumb Throttle Speed Control Push Down for Electric Scooter Pocket Bike Electric Bike : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Thumb Throttle Speed Control Push Down for Electric Scooter Pocket Bike Electric Bike : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

I've searched amazon for thumb throttles. I didn't look at button throttles. If it turns out that all I need is a short burst to climb a hill, as I'm imagining a button could be the answer. If I need more I'll be looking into a pas bottom bracket. I guess the only way to find out is to get busy & try it.
Thx for the help.

 

[E-HP]

I've searched amazon for thumb throttles. I didn't look at button throttles. If it turns out that all I need is a short burst to climb a hill, as I'm imagining a button could be the answer. If I need more I'll be looking into a pas bottom bracket. I guess the only way to find out is to get busy & try it.
Thx for the help.

You won't find anything premade. It's simple to make one, but takes soldering a couple of resistors together, or one resistor and a variable resistor (or just a variable resistor working as a voltage divider), if you want to be able to tune how much assist you get when you press the button. I actually made one for my bike a couple of years ago, but mainly for coasting longer distances (negate the drag of my direct drive motor), and for navigating between foot traffic on the bike path, when PAS would be too much, and throttle would be too sensitive. Coasting worked well with 18W applied, slow traffic worked with about 80W-100W applied.

 

[billybronco]

You won't find anything premade. It's simple to make one, but takes soldering a couple of resistors together, or one resistor and a variable resistor (or just a variable resistor working as a voltage divider), if you want to be able to tune how much assist you get when you press the button. I actually made one for my bike a couple of years ago, but mainly for coasting longer distances (negate the drag of my direct drive motor), and for navigating between foot traffic on the bike path, when PAS would be too much, and throttle would be too sensitive. Coasting worked well with 18W applied, slow traffic worked with about 80W-100W applied.

That's way out of my skill set. I know nothing about electronics. Thumb throttles it is for now.

 

[Chalo]

I find straight bars hurt my hands and wrists.

You don't have to use straight bars to use normal handlebars with a normal diameter. Probably the most common bend worldwide would be some variation of the "North Road" or roadster style bar, which is anything but straight.

See? Not straight but also not terrible like drop bars.

 

[lnanek]

How is your cruise control different than your pas?

PAS = pedal assist. If you pedal, the motor assists. If you don't pedal, the motor doesn't. If you pedal faster (with cadence sensing), the motor assists more. If you pedal harder (with torque sensing) the motor assists more. Programmable controllers like the Grin Phaserunner allow configuring the lowest cadence/torque where you receive help and the ramping for how much more help you receive when you pedal a set amount faster/harder. Many e-bikes have no throttle and are completely controlled by PAS. They also often have buttons to adjust it up and down, e.g. PAS level 5 provides more assistance for the same cadence than PAS level 1.

A new bottom bracket generally isn't necessary. The most basic implementation is just a wheel of magnets glued on to your front cog and a small sensor zip tied to the frame nearby. This is enough to measure cadence. More advanced sensors integrated into things like bottom brackets and mid drives can detect torque.

Cruise control is unrelated. It's a feature where, if you hold your throttle down at a fixed power level for a fixed time, then the bike will continue acting like you are holding the throttle down until you tap the brakes. It's for people who feel holding the throttle twisted all the time fatigues their hand/thumb.

 

[E-HP]

You don't have to use straight bars to use normal handlebars with a normal diameter. Probably the most common bend worldwide would be some variation of the "North Road" or roadster style bar, which is anything but straight.

See? Not straight but also not terrible like drop bars.

Ouch, that's too much.

Once I stopped caring about weight, a lot of options opened up, so I have a half dozen handle bars in the garage that didn't work out. I ended up with "Dutch Moustache shaped" bars. Upsweep, backsweep, and rise are just right, and with ergo grips there's never a hint of discomfort. That said, I was pedaling into a 15mph headwind today and wish I had some drop bars. I reduced my wattage from 700W to less than 500W just by hunching over the bars.

Cruise control is unrelated. It's a feature where, if you hold your throttle down at a fixed power level for a fixed time, then the bike will continue acting like you are holding the throttle down until you tap the brakes. It's for people who feel holding the throttle twisted all the time fatigues their hand/thumb.

Clarification on the cruise control. There are generally two ways that a controller (or Cycle Analyst) triggers cruise control; throttle hold, and button press. I like the button press type, since it's more deliberate, so you don't have to be concerned about cruise control unexpectedly kicking in at full throttle.

There are also at least two types of how the cruise control functions when invoked. Many will lock in a certain throttle level, and most of those are triggered by throttle hold. Some lock in speed, just like a car, which is what I like.

Button press, speed based, cruise control is the best in my opinion. I used to use in instead of PAS, since I could set it to 18mph, pedal for exercise, so speed would stay the same but watt usage goes down, and stop pedaling whenever I wanted to and just keep going. If I went downhill, it would regen to maintain the same speed. It's almost lazier than throttle only, from the control perspective, but you get physical exercise when you want to without pressing up down buttons or changing anything else.

 

[billybronco]

PAS = pedal assist. If you pedal, the motor assists. If you don't pedal, the motor doesn't. If you pedal faster (with cadence sensing), the motor assists more. If you pedal harder (with torque sensing) the motor assists more. Programmable controllers like the Grin Phaserunner allow configuring the lowest cadence/torque where you receive help and the ramping for how much more help you receive when you pedal a set amount faster/harder. Many e-bikes have no throttle and are completely controlled by PAS. They also often have buttons to adjust it up and down, e.g. PAS level 5 provides more assistance for the same cadence than PAS level 1.

A new bottom bracket generally isn't necessary. The most basic implementation is just a wheel of magnets glued on to your front cog and a small sensor zip tied to the frame nearby. This is enough to measure cadence. More advanced sensors integrated into things like bottom brackets and mid drives can detect torque.

Cruise control is unrelated. It's a feature where, if you hold your throttle down at a fixed power level for a fixed time, then the bike will continue acting like you are holding the throttle down until you tap the brakes. It's for people who feel holding the throttle twisted all the time fatigues their hand/thumb.

Hi Inanek. I'm assuming that the cadence sensor setup would be a minimal cost. For some reason I keep thinking that a pas setup is going to send me through red lights at high speed. Kind of like a stuck throttle. I know if the pas system was unsafe, manufacturers wouldn't incorporate them into their production bikes. To many lawsuits!
I do have a phaserunner so maybe I already have cruise control and don't know it. So how does the phaserunner know to stop the cruise control when you squeeze a break leaver? Is there a mechanical link to a break lever like the charging option?

 

[lnanek]

Yeah, brake levers for e-bikes have an extra electric sensor and signal cable coming out of them. So pulling your brakes can also send a signal to the controller to stop supplying power to the motor. At least on mine, barely pulling the lever is enough to trigger that, so I use it to turn off cruise control without any mechanical braking getting activated like if I pulled harder.

For turning off PAS, the min cadence I have set where assist is supplied is something like 30RPM. So just not pedaling fast does that for me. Some PAS sensors can detect forward pedaling vs. backwards too. The brake sensor also disables it if I wanted to hold it down blipped.

My motor is a geared hub with a clutch so that's all I have for braking. If you have a direct drive motor or geared hub motor with electrically locking clutch, there's a whole different world of regenerative braking that charges your battery. Some people use variable regenerative braking even, so they can decide how much or how little the motor should slow the bike using the motor as a generator like that.

 

[billybronco]

Lots to absorb. I do have a regenerative braking option. It requires a manual link from a brake lever to (I believe) the controller. I didn't set it up on the 1st build. I wanted to get comfortable with the system before I did that. Most of the Amazon stuff I ordered came in yesterday. A blind nut rivet kit. My bike has no threaded holes on the seat tube or the down tube. Makes it tough to install a bottle cage let alone a battery. And a sm connector kit. Some of the components have enough wire to rig several bikes. I don't like all the extra meters of wire wrapped around the steering & top tube. I'm waiting on some thumb throttles which should show up tomorrow. I'm hoping to get my build done this weekend. I've already swapped the bars over. These bars have secondary break levers and a bar bag bracket. The riser for the bars. B 17 Brooks Imperial saddle. The lock, rack and fenders. It's actually ready to ride as is.
Thanks for the help & ideas.

 

[amberwolf]

If it h elps, they make clamp on bottle mounts
bottle cage clamp on mounts - Google Search
and Grin Tech makes bottle battery anchor mounts:

Battery Anchors - Grin Products - Product Info

Many aftermarket ebike battery packs don’t come with the best hardware for securing them to the bicycle frame. We’ve tackled this problem with a range of machined aluminum battery anchors that are much more versatile, from the popular double and triple bob’s to more specific solutions for things...

ebikes.ca

and bottle mounts

Amazon.com

Bottle Bob

Pair of Bottle Bobs and Hose Clamps for Securing Downtube and Water Bottle Batteries to Frames Without Eyelets

ebikes.ca

 

[billybronco]

I've purchased a blind nut rivet kit to add 5mm "eyelets" wherever I need them. Grin does have some great stuff. It's where I purchased my kit.