Should I buy or build a, Nyx, Qulbix 140 etc. ?

[brabantbike]

Hi, Great community and builds.

I am looking to get a powerful e (dirt) bike for sandy trails and dunes for playing around at times and places when and where I cannot come with my dirtbike (ktm 250 sx 2017)

Basically I am looking for a light electric dirtbike (50-70 kg) But it cannot look like a dirtbike, it must look like a mountainbike so that I dont get any problems. (like nyx, Qulbix etc.)

I think the bikes I like cost anywhere from 7 to 11k which I do not want to spend. I am thinking max 5k euro.

I could buy a used 2018 (240hours) sur ron for 3000 euro but I think it has too little torque for the sandy area I live in (noord brabant Holland) Maybe spend some money to mod it.

I have quite some experience rebuilding bikes 25 years ago but not electric. It would be fun but I would not do it if diy is more expensive than of the shelf.

What would you guys recommend.

Diy build or buy a new one.

What bike would you build for raw dirtbike power and suspension that can take hits. (trail nimbleness is not important for me)

Dank u

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

you could always add a larger sprocket to the used surron.. but since you specified it not look like a dirt bike then surron and similar bikes may not suite your needs.. have you looked at qulbix mid drive?? plenty of power and range and available with pedals and bike seat.. : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=96670
I wouldn't recommend rear hub motor for off road now that mid drives are readily available.. seems your wants and needs are a bit juxtaposed.. you want a dirt bike (power) but not to look like one, pretty tall order..

 

[Merlin]

Yup
Forget hubs on deep sand or Offroad.
I had qulbix and nyx with typical 205 motor plus Ferrofluid and hubsinks.
Works but heats anyway up and the dead stop torque is peanuts compared to MIDs...
I rode hub monsters for years. Until I rode high power mid.
Even a surron with stock controller is Offroad better as any hub "vehicle"

Hubs on sine wave are really silent, MIDs can be loud as frock.
Atm I still hate the noise but what should I say..
You will not find a single case where a hub is better except of noise.
Of course building a hub bike is even for beginners easy.
Mid needs mostly some work on the frame.

If you get this surron von Joachim, upgrade controller + battery and you have your 5k bike that fits perfect your needs.

If you put a grand on it you can buy a legal l1e surron too.

 

[iOn <-+-> uOil]

You will never can use a e-bike like a full-blown motocross.
First of all the frame isnt in most cases up to the task.
2nd they use bicycle parts often from downhill bicycles but still not up to the task.

 

[brabantbike]

Thanks, very helpful.

So, no hub in the sand. And yes a Qulbix mid engine sounds perfect for me. I read the great post of Benjamin 84 and his decision to buy one. I also understand that it never gets to the level of a dirtbike and that is ok.


I think a Sur ron with a pedalkit would look like a mountainbike enough I guess. I dont know how much I would have to spend to get it as powerful as the Qulbix 140. 2k extra would not get me there I think.

But the most powerful Qulbix 140 would cost me 7500 euro for 10 kw if I understand correctly. What would this cost me if I bought the frame and parts and build it myself, possibly with hiring some help?

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Thanks, very helpful.

So, no hub in the sand. And yes a Qulbix mid engine sounds perfect for me. I read the great post of Benjamin 84 and his decision to buy one. I also understand that it never gets to the level of a dirtbike and that is ok.


I think a Sur ron with a pedalkit would look like a mountainbike enough I guess. I dont know how much I would have to spend to get it as powerful as the Qulbix 140. 2k extra would not get me there I think.

But the most powerful Qulbix 140 would cost me 7500 euro for 10 kw if I understand correctly. What would this cost me if I bought the frame and parts and build it myself, possibly with hiring some help?

Qulbix does not offer their mid drive as a build kit, only complete ebike.. they explain why in one of the other threads about it.. pedals on surron are not functional and are cheap junk.. but Qulbix pedal kit is fully functional and has overdrive for pedaling at motor speeds.. with a production bike the R&D is already done so you just buy the bike and ride.. you could build something but your not likely to save much time or money and your not likely to make something better unless your a frame builder, etc and have lots of time to tinker to perfect the design and component choices..

 

[brabantbike]

Qulbix will be releasing nude editions. No idea what that will be. Maybe basic kits.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Qulbix will be releasing nude editions. No idea what that will be. Maybe basic kits.

it means qulbix will offer their mid drive as a complete ebike minus battery.. :
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=98417&p=1442768#p1442768

 

[benjamin84]

As others have said, if your goal is close-to-dirtbike performance then the torque advantage of a mid-drive motor is pretty essential. My Q140MD has climbed anything I've thrown at it so far, and even from a stand-still on a steep incline it will always accelerate hard (and threaten to wheelie up the rest of the hill). Admittedly I've not tested it in warm weather yet, or with prolonged high power outputs like riding in sand and such, so I can't comment on overheating.

By the way, the Qulbix has a true power draw of up to 15kW according to the data on the Cycle Analyst. It certainly feels that strong if not more thanks to the monstrous torque output. It is also completely silent (apart from tire noise), compared to the RC-like whine from many other mid drive setups.

As for buy vs build, that is a tough one. Having spent the winter pawing over my bike I will say the components themselves aren't all that complicated, programming the controller (Kelly KLS) is fairly straight forward and the motor is well known. The challenge comes from putting it all together in a package that works. To mid mount a 205 hub motor you will need a custom built frame in any case, and the components required to create a functioning set of pedals would be completely custom made as well. The high torque means you would be looking at motocross components for the final drive chain too.

Not impossible by any stretch, but I doubt it would be cheap, and I'm sure Qulbix have done their fair share of trial and error testing to get to the level of quality they are currently at Is it worth the money? If you just look at the component cost then probably not, but as a whole package I doubt there are many that could make anything better for less.

 

[brabantbike]

Thanks, Makes sense.

I can buy a used qulbix for 2500 euro:
Qulbix Raptor Q140
Adaptto Max-E mit BMS
10x 4s16ah multistars Akku (20s)
Qs205 Motor mit hubsinks und Ferrofluid.

I understand that hub has less torque and can heat up. Will this one have (because it is a much stronger motor) have similar torque to a surron? Will a hub work for torque with big battery and big sprocket? Reading your answers the answer is no.

 

[Merlin]

if its a stock surron of course a 10Kw+ Hub will smoke the surron even on Dead Stop Acceleration.