"Storm/Sondors" thread for parking contentious posts

[EULITTLEB]

The move location code for sending posts here is 69026

From: spinningmagnets:

The "Storm" Sondors fatbike crowdfunding campaign on indigogo has been very passionately discussed. I'm making this thread to park some contentious postings that are increasingly off topic, and sometimes devolving into personal attacks (whether said attacks are deserved or not is immaterial, the back-and-forth adds no new information about the Sondors fatbike).

I apologize in advance if a few of the posts that were moved here, actually deserve to stay in the main discussion. I suspect this action will be ongoing, since the summer of 2015 is when the Sondors company will is scheduled to begin delivering their hoped-for product

Main thread can be found here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=66220

___________________________________________________________________

aticle talks about Storm Sondors dealing with Asperger,
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-autism-entrepreneur-20150228-story.html#page=1

Charles Fleming was fed this information by Agency 2.0 and did nothing to verify any of these claims whatsoever, reciting verbatim the false claims about the Sondors ebike and the Campaign. It was then distributed to Contributors via a Campaign update, a sickening PR exercise to engender sympathy for a Campaign Owner who is heading up a misleading Campaign on the back of shifting claims, inconsistencies and performance exaggerations.

I cannot understand why I am accused of being a troll and one person is risking a Lawsuit for Slander from Prodeco, things are getting out of hand on the IGG comments page. Why Philip Hillis believes he is a mouthpiece for every contributor or is entitled to speak on their behalf is concerning; that he wishes to see a Company fail with a loss of US jobs and hardship to US families is beyond me, instead he is 100% behind a dubious campaign and supporting a person (hopefully) taking what is left out of $4 million pledges after Agency 2.0 and Indiegogo have taken their cut to place an order for bike assembly in a Chinese factory.

Philip Hillis
1 hour ago
bobkops I agree, that will be great to see, but what will be even better is a year from now seeing a sign that says, Prodeco, going out of business sale. 7000 of us will be doing all we can to make that happen. If you get a chance tell them I said so.

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

I cannot understand why I am accused of being a troll and one person is risking a Lawsuit for Slander from Prodeco, things are getting out of hand on the IGG comments page. Why Philip Hillis believes he is a mouthpiece for every contributor or is entitled to speak on their behalf is concerning; that he wishes to see a Company fail with a loss of US jobs and hardship to US families is beyond me, instead he is 100% behind a dubious campaign and supporting a person (hopefully) taking what is left out of $4 million pledges after Agency 2.0 and Indiegogo have taken their cut to place an order for bike assembly in a Chinese factory.

Philip Hillis
1 hour ago
bobkops I agree, that will be great to see, but what will be even better is a year from now seeing a sign that says, Prodeco, going out of business sale. 7000 of us will be doing all we can to make that happen. If you get a chance tell them I said so.

Everyone here knows you're a troll so STFU, and stop making threats you have no intention of acting on. You've already lost all your credibility.

The more I think about it the more it looks like you're probably getting paid by Prodeco CEO Robert Provost. This is the article I site as evidence that he's behind this widespread internet trolling. His was the first shot across Storm's bow.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/a-500-ebike-not-so-fast-110086504619.html

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

I cannot understand why I am accused of being a troll and one person is risking a Lawsuit for Slander from Prodeco, things are getting out of hand on the IGG comments page. Why Philip Hillis believes he is a mouthpiece for every contributor or is entitled to speak on their behalf is concerning; that he wishes to see a Company fail with a loss of US jobs and hardship to US families is beyond me, instead he is 100% behind a dubious campaign and supporting a person (hopefully) taking what is left out of $4 million pledges after Agency 2.0 and Indiegogo have taken their cut to place an order for bike assembly in a Chinese factory.

Philip Hillis
1 hour ago
bobkops I agree, that will be great to see, but what will be even better is a year from now seeing a sign that says, Prodeco, going out of business sale. 7000 of us will be doing all we can to make that happen. If you get a chance tell them I said so.

Everyone here knows you're a troll so STFU, and stop making threats you have no intention of acting on. You've already lost all your credibility.

The more I think about it the more it looks like you're probably getting paid by Prodeco CEO Robert Provost. This is the article I site as evidence that he's behind this widespread internet trolling. His was the first shot across Storm's bow.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/a-500-ebike-not-so-fast-110086504619.html

I find it very interesting that the rhetoric Provost uses against Storm, sounds very similar to the rhetoric the troll uses. Pretty much the same talking points.

 

[EULITTLEB]

Philip, what threat was there? You are risking a law suit from Prodeco by making claims you cannot substantiate or prove but are just making up to fit your argument aren't you? I didn't even know who Prodeco was until they tried to serve a Cease and Desist Warning on Sondors (but couldn't find where to send it to!) It is up to Prodeco to act, not me.

I take issue with you using the term STFU - do you think I am going to stop posting because you don't want me to?

Maybe I don't have any credibility for believing along with many other people that the Campaign makes false and misleading claims - but good luck with your 13 mile range in deep sand

 

[ebuilderone]

I thought this guy, Theodore Voltaire, was taking idiot lessons; now I know he has been giving them.

Theodore Voltaire
13 hours ago
Hello, I have been interested in the Storm since the first time I saw it, but have some questions before I commit to purchase.

I’ve had a look through this board, but the owners and managers don’t appear to interact on this page very often / at all. could somebody please tell me where it might be best to submit my questions, I cant find an email or phone number to ?Storm? should I phone indiegogo and put my questions to them do you think?

What a disingenuous twat!

Theodore Voltaire
39 minutes ago
Thanks Insurance guy, but I’d really like to hear from the people running the campaign, No offence intended, but similar questions to the ones I need answered have been asked here, and whilst they have been answered by enthusiasts, I’m not sure they have any more information than what is displayed in the FAQs.. I’d really like to talk to somebody involved with the bike. Theo.

Seek counseling mate!

Theodore Voltaire
13 minutes ago
Thankyou Insurance guy, Not sure its for you to judge if the product is right for me or not. one of the reasons I wish to talk to the owners of the campaign, is because of the adversarial attitude shown by some supporters, also the fact that most supporters appear to be quoting only what is available in published reports. I have a minor technical question best dealt with by the supplier.

The only reason why an adversarial relationship exists is because the campaign has been intentionally untruthful and misleading. You yourself have been quick to support this campaign, without buying the product or even knowing about the product, by calling anyone and everyone who has raised legitimate concerns about this campaign paid "shills." Now we learn through your posts that; You have supported lies through self-admitted ignorance! What a tool!

Theodore Voltaire
9 minutes ago
Just to make myself clear, If I wanted information about a new jeep, I’d ask Jeep, not some stranger licking the showroom window.

You are the strange, stranger, and strangest, licking the showroom! What a laugh. You are an ass hat not only here but elsewhere.

the.insurance.guy
30 minutes ago
Were you able to get an email sent? Did my explanation help you send the email?
Do you need further explanation on how to send an email to the campaign people?

Amazing how denial works... reality tends to hit the duped as a blindside; we see here an illustration of the denial processes working itself out on the weak of mind

Theodore Voltaire
30 minutes ago
I would suggest that with an attitude such as yours, insurance guy, you are not a positive asset for this campaign. I don’t appreciate being shown the door for simply seeking a small piece of information.

Cubepeep
Theodore Voltaire
32 minutes ago
Thankyou Della, Unfortunately I’m not on facebook, but your helpful attitude is much appreciated.

Insurance Guy, your advice on how to contact Storm and Agency 2.0 was most helpful, Thankyo, your adversarial attitude and suggestion that I should not take part in this campaign because I need to get a few facts straightened out, most certainly is not helpful at all.

You need shock therapy mate, that might be enough to unscramble you!


Cubepeep
Bruce Choate
2 hours ago
ebuilderone on ES is impersonating “Theodore Voltaire AKA Phillip Hillis” on that forum and created the fake account here, then posted a full string of BS talking to himself on ES forum.

Phillip Hillis, lol.. Bruce Choate Ryan Mercer you guys are on fantasy island.

 

[EULITTLEB]

Not that I should have to respond to false allegations yet again from the.insurance.guy but I have nothing to do with this full stop.

I wasted $1 to get my point across previously, I am not wasting another.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME WHATSOEVER BUT I HAVE TO PUT UP WITH CRAP LIKE THIS POSTED BELOW ON THE IGG SITE. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Bruce Choate
3 hours ago
Theodore Voltaire, you’ve been caught! This is Ian Grace, and I have to apologize to ebuilderone, well sort of his fault for making a long post on ES about it, now he’ll need to retract his post and apologize to the real Theodore Voltaire.


the.insurance.guy (who hides behind anonymity)
Not true “ian grace”

You started a poorly planned attack to re start your lies on here and were called out about it. its not hard to spot trolls anymore. It’s a DISgrace the way you keep going on and on over at the ES forums.

Can’t wait to ride the bike this summer going to be a great summer.

Ride on people

And where is your apology to me Bruce Choate? the.insurance.guy? Just pathetic.

 

[Ypedal]

copied here before i go on a deletion rampage... hold on tight.

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

I just paid $35 for a set of grip similar to these for my bike.



All backers are getting upgraded handle grips for free, which are excellent grips and really help to relieve the pressure on riders’ wrists!

 

[ebikedelight]

I just paid $35 for a set of grip similar to these for my bike.



All backers are getting upgraded handle grips for free, which are excellent grips and really help to relieve the pressure on riders’ wrists!

You have sparked my curiosity with your endless defense of Sondors and his ebike campaign.

Im assuming you purchased one of his bikes ?

If so, can you tell us what ebikes you currently own, and why you thought the Sonders ebike represented such a great deal, compared to what you could have built yourself for similar costs , but much better performance ?

 

[100volts+]

It matters not in the least what Sondor's claims are of parts upgrades. If three thousand Sondor bikes ship, I will post a youtube video of my dog taking a s%$t and me picking it up and munching on it with a smile on my face. That is how sure I am that this is a multi million dollar scam. PS I saw video of their "engineers". They sounded like stoned layabouts

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

You have sparked my curiosity with your endless defense of Sondors and his ebike campaign.

Im assuming you purchased one of his bikes ?

If so, can you tell us what ebikes you currently own, and why you thought the Sonders ebike represented such a great deal, compared to what you could have built yourself for similar costs , but much better performance ?

I already have about 100 pictures of my bike on this forum. This is one of my favorites.



I happen to love the Storm, and yes I'm a funder. I have to question the motives of someone like you that would devote so much time bashing a bike they obviously don't care anything about.

 

[ebikedelight]

You have sparked my curiosity with your endless defense of Sondors and his ebike campaign.

Im assuming you purchased one of his bikes ?

If so, can you tell us what ebikes you currently own, and why you thought the Sonders ebike represented such a great deal, compared to what you could have built yourself for similar costs , but much better performance ?

I already have about 100 pictures of my bike on this forum. This is one of my favorites.



I happen to love the Storm, and yes I'm a funder. I have to question the motives of someone like you that would devote so much time bashing a bike they obviously don't care anything about.

you are [text deleted by moderator]...

ive already stated that I still think Sondors may pull this off.

You however, have done NOTHING, but defend Sondors lies, previous lawsuits, scandals and misinfo about his ebike.

Once again, can you explain to us why you would purchase a sondors ebike, when you already have ebikes that blow it away from a performance standpoint ? It would be like someone who owns lamborghinis and ferraris , suddenly claiming that their purchase of a air cooled 4 cylinder VW bug was something to brag about.

By the way, anyone can go online and download photos of ebikes, then upload them here, and claim they own them.

It is your motives that are questionable, because they are so one sided and NEVER negative about Sondors numerous lies and scandals....tell us why you are so proud to buy a sondors ebike for $700 shipped, when its perfomance and quality will be much lower , then the ebikes you claim to own and post photos of on here .

 

[ebikedelight]

It matters not in the least what Sondor's claims are of parts upgrades. If three thousand Sondor bikes ship, I will post a youtube video of my dog taking a s%$t and me picking it up and munching on it with a smile on my face. That is how sure I am that this is a multi million dollar scam. PS I saw video of their "engineers". They sounded stoned layabouts

well, thats quite a promise you made there...lets hope for your sake, that Sondors continues to behave the way he has with his past businesses and financial ventures...cause I sure dont wanna see you munching on dog poop. :lol:

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

As Theodore says (and we know he's an expert because he did post a pic of a fancy ebike so that's proof) the plastic triangle battery cover and thumb throttle and rubber handlebar grips alone are worth over $1000 so it's a bargain of a bike that you won't find anywhere...and they're shipping out over 3,000 of them May 1st, just watch! GO team Sonders! (*ignore the marketing Agency 2.0 lawsuit, that's just a distraction by disgruntled partners) Storm is an expert designer and his crack manufacturing team pics prove it - this is the best deal you can fund anywhere! Only a marketing genius would invent insurance that pays the campaign NOT to deliver anything...these guys know what they're doing, clearly

Listen scoot, I don't care what value anyone places on the Storm. I just know what I like.

I remember not so long ago you mentioning your friend could vacuum form cheap side covers, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you implied there's no way Storm was going to spend the big bucks for expensive industrial molds. Think again, because he did.

Now I know that Storm's campaign has been accused of massive deception, and it's possible there's truth to that. It could also just as well be a case of massive incompetence. My only problem with that is I think you're blaming the wrong person.

 

[scoot-e]

... correct me if I'm wrong, but you implied there's no way Storm was going to spend the big bucks for expensive industrial molds. Think again, because he did....

You are corrected...he didn't

Where is the proof he spent "the big bucks" on anything exactly? You mean he posted a picture on a campaign fundraising site, don't you? Who's blaming who here...that plastic triangle, like happy meal toys, definitely are worth $1000 I believe you said...

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

You are corrected...where is the proof he spent "the big bucks" on anything exactly? You mean he posted a picture on a campaign fundraising site to be precise, don't you? Who's blaming who here...that plastic triangle, like happy meal toys, definitely are worth $1000 I believe you said...

I'm not going to argue that. You'll know the truth a lot sooner then you expect.

I'd put the value of those plastic covers at about 5.6 million and climbing right now. And whether anyone gets a bike or not, that's a number you can't dispute.

 

[slacker]

whats sad is a bunch of adults bickering about a electric bicycle. Good luck.

 

[scoot-e]

Who's arguing? This is a forum discussion, baby!!

 

[Scotty T]

It's bringing out more copy cats, here's Skillion out of Sydney Australia:

https://www.nettfunder.com/projects/skillion-efatbike/

They too seem to claim they came up with the electric fat bike concept. The Coolest one at that. Designed to be handled. Riders need not apply?

Who writes that stuff?

 

[Scotty T]

Someone who has made a time machine to win the lottery!?!

https://www.nettfunder.com/peer-review/lottery-winnings-guaranteed/

And runs the campaign on their own crowd funding platform:

https://www.nettfunder.com/meet-our-team/

And puts their home address on the website. Legit amateur.

 

[deerfencer]

I agree there's something seriously wrong with the picture here re Theodore's whole schtick as someone who claims to be a Stealth owner (around a $10K bike last I looked) yet is drooling over cheap plastic battery covers and $2 thumb throttle "upgrades" and ignoring Storm's awful business track record. And his "Oh, but it's so easy to upgrade the motor, battery, etc." line also makes little sense when you can buy proven fat e-bikes with far better specs for not that much more money and not be gambling on a dysfunctional derelict who has lawsuits on his record and who has bounced checks to his own PR firm after they help him raise lots and lots of money. Either Teddy's a shill or just not very bright, or both; I'm leaning towards the middle option. His vehemence in defending this fraudulent campaign makes me wonder if he wasn't one of the first suckers to cough up his dough and is now desperate to defend his naivete.

 

[slacker]

They sounded stoned layabouts. could someone decipher this statement please ?

 

[ebikedelight]

I agree there's something seriously wrong with the picture here re Theodore's whole schtick as someone who claims to be a Stealth owner (around a $10K bike last I looked) yet is drooling over cheap plastic battery covers and $2 thumb throttle "upgrades" and ignoring Storm's awful business track record. And his "Oh, but it's so easy to upgrade the motor, battery, etc." line also makes little sense when you can buy proven fat e-bikes with far better specs for not that much more money and not be gambling on a dysfunctional derelict who has lawsuits on his record and who has bounced checks to his own PR firm after they help him raise lots and lots of money. Either Teddy's a shill or just not very bright, or both; I'm leaning towards the middle option. His vehemence in defending this fraudulent campaign makes me wonder if he wasn't one of the first suckers to cough up his dough and is now desperate to defend his naivete.

Yes, something seems fishy with teddys posts....and his photo uploads of ebikes that cost tons of cash...but we never see him with his $7000 ebike...just a photo of the ebike on a gorgeous bridge above a river...LOL.....

I think he knows most of us are on to him and his never ending bragging about a $499 ebike, that has the cheapest components one could purchase . As you say, who brags about a $499 ebike with substandard parts , weak battery , weak motor and mechanical brakes, when they supposedly already own one of the most expensive and best performing ebikes on earth ?

Regardless of teddys real motives....If buyers of this ebike have not started to recieve their product by june 1st - 2015...then we can add that to the list of lies Sondors has spouted out. I think his promise was to have them shipped out starting in May- 2015.

 

[LockH]

Read "deerfencer " post "slowly". Carefully. (Possibly "New Yark accent" diff. to translate.) Last word "naivete"? Think ignorance and fear (but fun to learn new "stuff".)

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

It makes a lot more sense to me that a funder of this little bike would be posting positive comments considering I got skin in the game, and love the bikes looks. Even stanch critics admit it looks good. What's more confusing is why people that aren't interested in it would be devoting so much time, and effort knocking not only the bike, buy anyone that likes it.

You got to admit, it's getting pretty extreme for someone to say if this bike shows up they're going to make a dog turd sandwich, and eat it on video LOL. I sure hope this guy rethinks that comment, because I pretty sure he going to have to start munching down very soon.