Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

[Allex]

wtf, is that a hub motor on that thing?
Nice place for the pedals, bet the pedalling feels better than the with the stock pedal kit.

 

[Offroader]

I have a 20s 16 p with 30q samsung cells in a surron frame in an aluminum box, that is the absolute maximum and I have had to make small adjustments to the frame. I think a 20s 15p goes in easily.mini_batterijbox.jpgmini_ready to go.jpgmini_chinese spagetti(1).jpg

What rear fender are you using?

Does it wobble around when you hit bumps?

 

[liveforphysics]

How much price difference there is between BAC-4000 and BAC-8000? Also, would BAC-4000 be enough for 8 KW power and to reach 100 km/h? Also, I'm not sure about the fit, since the length of the BAC-8000 seems to suggest that it can't fit very well.

A e-bikes have the ASI Bac8000 controller fitted pretty neatly.

Wow!!!! Fierce beast!

I have a 20s 16 p with 30q samsung cells in a surron frame in an aluminum box, that is the absolute maximum and I have had to make small adjustments to the frame. I think a 20s 15p goes in easily.View attachment 2View attachment 1

That is a creative power solution!

 

[bionicon]

wtf, is that a hub motor on that thing?
Nice place for the pedals, bet the pedalling feels better than the with the stock pedal kit.

yes its a qs 205 4t ,the pedals are real good and feel natural just need shorter crankset

 

[bionicon]

I have a 20s 16 p with 30q samsung cells in a surron frame in an aluminum box, that is the absolute maximum and I have had to make small adjustments to the frame. I think a 20s 15p goes in easily.mini_batterijbox.jpgmini_ready to go.jpgmini_chinese spagetti(1).jpg

What rear fender are you using?

Does it wobble around when you hit bumps?

its a mudhugger its solid just made a reinforcment where its attached

 

[Offroader]

https://electricrt.com/sur-ron-20s-72v-30ah-drop-in-battery-upgrade/

Looks like there will be a drop in solution for a decent battery upgrade.

Something isn't adding up here, maybe my math is wrong?

They claim a 72 v 30 AH pack at 2460 watt hours, but that would be a 2160 watt hour pack and not 2460 they are claiming. 72 volts * 30 amp hours = 2160 watt hours.

If they wanted to get a 2460 watt hour pack using samsung 30Q cells, they would need to use 228 samsung 30q cells. This would mean they would have to pack the cells in tight if they are using a removable battery or a similar case to the stock battery case. Highly unlikely anyone but DIY hobbyists like us would pack the cells in tight and not use spacers.

I find it highly unlikely they are going to use 228 samsung 30q cells, they could but just doubtful they would do that. That would be a decent pack if they did though.

I wonder if they got their math wrong and intend to use a 20s10p configuration giving a 72 volt 30 amp hour pack. But that would be about the same capacity as the stock battery. This would also use 200 cells, similar to the stock battery which uses 176 cells.

As we know the range is kind of limited on the stock battery. If we use a higher powered battery and turned up the power with an aftermarket controller we would get an even worse range.

I personally would like to have at least a 2800 watt hour pack, that would give you a decent range, especially if you are going to be turning up the power of the bike with a new controller. If they did manage a 2460 watt hour pack with 30Q cells, that would be somewhat acceptable, but at the low end of what would be acceptable.

 

[fechter]

So far, this has been working out nicely for me. About 1.5kWhr in the rear pack for a total of about 3.4kWh. It would be quite a bit more if I used top notch cells, but I had a bunch lying around that needed work and the price was right. Having 40+ miles range of sport mode is nice. The mounting bracket is very solid and I think it would survive off road unless it was crashed. Even then it might be OK.

 

[n2mb]

Has anyone tried a 52V battery with the Sur Ron? Does it work with the stock or X controller? I'm not sure if there is a low voltage cutoff set in the controller. It might be nice to carry a spare mighty mini battery in your backpack in case your main battery runs out!

 

[ziltoid81]

So, if the main battery runs out of power you want to attach the mini battery?

You get more range when you connect both batteries at the beginning..... less v sag, more range.

 

[Aebrennan]

Has anyone tried a 52V battery with the Sur Ron? Does it work with the stock or X controller? I'm not sure if there is a low voltage cutoff set in the controller. It might be nice to carry a spare mighty mini battery in your backpack in case your main battery runs out!

We received 2 x bikes back in 2017 with the 14s batteries and yes you could swap between the 16s at anytime without issue.
We have not tried them with the X controller.

 

[n2mb]

So, if the main battery runs out of power you want to attach the mini battery?

You get more range when you connect both batteries at the beginning..... less v sag, more range.

True. I was thinking mainly as a reserve, in case you misjudge your range and need just a little more range to get home. Plus, it's hard to find small 60V batteries that you could run in parallel. Most are 52V or 72V. And then you'd have to deal with the umbilical cord to the battery from your bag for the entire ride...

 

[daygr]

Just picked up a Sur Ron, got delivered yesterday. Rode it around a bit today, and boy in the stock configuration this thing is a dog. I was definitely expecting a bit more power.

That said, I've ordered an ASI BAC4000 from ERT... not sure when it will show up, hopefully soon. I will still have the stock battery. Is anyone making a decent aftermarket battery for the sur ron that would pair well with the BAC4000 or is it all still custom builders? Do I finally have to learn how to build a battery? (EDIT: wow I should have read literally like three posts back to the link to the ERT drop in battery... May is soon!)

I have the sumo kit on it from Luna but I took the 48t sprocket off the 19" wheel and put it on the 17", I figured the 42t would be drastically too little acceleration...

 

[n2mb]

Just picked up a Sur Ron, got delivered yesterday. Rode it around a bit today, and boy in the stock configuration this thing is a dog. I was definitely expecting a bit more power.

Surprising... I thought it was pretty quick stock, and I didn't gain much with the X controller.

What is your top speed using GPS with the 48T sprocket on the supermoto wheels? I've thought about switching from the 42T, but I didn't want to give up 45 mph top speed.

 

[ziltoid81]

True. I was thinking mainly as a reserve, in case you misjudge your range and need just a little more range to get home. Plus, it's hard to find small 60V batteries that you could run in parallel. Most are 52V or 72V. And then you'd have to deal with the umbilical cord to the battery from your bag for the entire ride...

I guess you get more problems than benefits with this idea.
You have to carry the second battery in your backpack all the time and it sucks.
The cord will be the smallest problem, i did this for 20000km with my bbs01 ride.

When the main bat is running low you want to power the bike with the small bat alone?
Where do you want to attach the mini bat?
On the bike? Then connect the 2 batteries in advance and get all the benefits.
In your backpack? Then you need a cord anyway.

You get 60v packs made by some forum members anywhere i guess.

I love fetchers solution.

 

[Offroader]

Just picked up a Sur Ron, got delivered yesterday. Rode it around a bit today, and boy in the stock configuration this thing is a dog. I was definitely expecting a bit more power.

Surprising... I thought it was pretty quick stock, and I didn't gain much with the X controller.

What is your top speed using GPS with the 48T sprocket on the supermoto wheels? I've thought about switching from the 42T, but I didn't want to give up 45 mph top speed.

I assume he connected or cut (forgot which one) that 3rd wire that limits the speed? I didn't know about this until I first drove my Sur-Ron and also thought it was extremely under powered, then I did some googling and found out about this wire. I think most people are aware of it now though. To check this easily you should notice a big speed increase from switching from eco to sport. If both are the same then you are being speed limited.

Even with the full power Sur-Ron, it isn't all that fast if you have like a 8KW hub motor bike to compare it against.

 

[skyungjae]

https://electricrt.com/sur-ron-20s-72v-30ah-drop-in-battery-upgrade/

Looks like there will be a drop in solution for a decent battery upgrade.

Something isn't adding up here, maybe my math is wrong?

They claim a 72 v 30 AH pack at 2460 watt hours, but that would be a 2160 watt hour pack and not 2460 they are claiming. 72 volts * 30 amp hours = 2160 watt hours.

If they wanted to get a 2460 watt hour pack using samsung 30Q cells, they would need to use 228 samsung 30q cells. This would mean they would have to pack the cells in tight if they are using a removable battery or a similar case to the stock battery case. Highly unlikely anyone but DIY hobbyists like us would pack the cells in tight and not use spacers.

I find it highly unlikely they are going to use 228 samsung 30q cells, they could but just doubtful they would do that. That would be a decent pack if they did though.

I wonder if they got their math wrong and intend to use a 20s10p configuration giving a 72 volt 30 amp hour pack. But that would be about the same capacity as the stock battery. This would also use 200 cells, similar to the stock battery which uses 176 cells.

As we know the range is kind of limited on the stock battery. If we use a higher powered battery and turned up the power with an aftermarket controller we would get an even worse range.

I personally would like to have at least a 2800 watt hour pack, that would give you a decent range, especially if you are going to be turning up the power of the bike with a new controller. If they did manage a 2460 watt hour pack with 30Q cells, that would be somewhat acceptable, but at the low end of what would be acceptable.

I think the cells are being re-arranged to fit more like in this video. They can supposedly fit 30 extra cells in there with a different cell holder.

[youtube]WKYk8YAL-yg[/youtube]

 

[Tanabe]

Img_1147A.jpg

So far, this has been working out nicely for me. About 1.5kWhr in the rear pack for a total of about 3.4kWh. It would be quite a bit more if I used top notch cells, but I had a bunch lying around that needed work and the price was right. Having 40+ miles range of sport mode is nice. The mounting bracket is very solid and I think it would survive off road unless it was crashed. Even then it might be OK.

How did you mount those cases? I'm searching how to add extra batteries too. Im looking at battery packs from ali express, they have 60V pack. But im not sure how to mount it like that.

 

[LarsNiko]

With my Max-E and cromotor, my bike will easily wheelie, even at 25-30 MPH I believe I can wheelie the bike at those high speeds.

What is your battery specs? I just upgraded to Max-E with at Mxus 3K-Turbo. But haven’t got to try it out yet.

 

[fechter]

How did you mount those cases? I'm searching how to add extra batteries too. Im looking at battery packs from ali express, they have 60V pack. But im not sure how to mount it like that.

I think I'll put up a separate topic at some point. Basically I removed the plastic cover under the seat and bolted a piece of aluminum channel to the bottom of the frame pieces under the seat. The frame is pretty sturdy stuff. The cross piece is made of aluminum "hat channel" that came from a flat screen TV mount. I decided to use giant hose clamps to help secure the cases and avoid having the plastic in tension (which may creep or eventually crack). So far it's rock solid. There is also a single bolt coming from inside the case you can see sticking up near the handle. This is almost enough to hold it by itself and was helpful to keep things in place while placing the hose clamps. This also allows the clamps to come off for service without the case coming off.

Since the rear packs are in parallel with the main pack, I can charge both at the same time with the stock charging setup. It just takes twice as long.

It may be possible to do something similar with a pair of "shark" style packs.

 

[Tanabe]

Amazing! Thanks for showing.

 

[Offroader]

With my Max-E and cromotor, my bike will easily wheelie, even at 25-30 MPH I believe I can wheelie the bike at those high speeds.

What is your battery specs? I just upgraded to Max-E with at Mxus 3K-Turbo. But haven’t got to try it out yet.

I'm using 20s14p, and have my max-e pushing around 8KW peak and have the PWR settings set high for good ramp up power.

The Mxus 3k Turbo is good but it is not a QS 205 or Cromotor. Meaning, it is more difficult to wheelie the bike at 25 MPH+ speeds with the Mxus 3k Turbo because it is not as strong mid range power as QS 205 or Cromotor. To lift the front wheel up at high speeds you want a QS 205.

But the Mxus is still a decent motor, it will get really hot so you will definitely need cooling and at least ferro fluid for it or you will overheat it if you push a lot of power through it.

 

[Jonathan1981]

I have a 20s 16 p with 30q samsung cells in a surron frame in an aluminum box, that is the absolute maximum and I have had to make small adjustments to the frame. I think a 20s 15p goes in easily.mini_batterijbox.jpgmini_ready to go.jpgmini_chinese spagetti(1).jpg

sacrilege!

haha, I kid. Congrats on all the hard work. Not something I would do to a Surry but that's just me.

 

[LarsNiko]

With my Max-E and cromotor, my bike will easily wheelie, even at 25-30 MPH I believe I can wheelie the bike at those high speeds.

What is your battery specs? I just upgraded to Max-E with at Mxus 3K-Turbo. But haven’t got to try it out yet.

I'm using 20s14p, and have my max-e pushing around 8KW peak and have the PWR settings set high for good ramp up power.

The Mxus 3k Turbo is good but it is not a QS 205 or Cromotor. Meaning, it is more difficult to wheelie the bike at 25 MPH+ speeds with the Mxus 3k Turbo because it is not as strong mid range power as QS 205 or Cromotor. To lift the front wheel up at high speeds you want a QS 205.

But the Mxus is still a decent motor, it will get really hot so you will definitely need cooling and at least ferro fluid for it or you will overheat it if you push a lot of power through it.

Ah, ok! I understand there’s a big difference between the two motors. I have a Nyx bike with the battery that comes with it. Of course I have been thinking of a motor upgrade but will start with ferrofluid and hubsink maybe. But there’s also a reason why I’m in this thread! :wink: Maybe I will get a Sur-Ron with better controller and battery instead. The only downside is that I can fly under the radar now with the pedals. Sur is sticking out a little bit more. I ride both streets to work and in the woods.

 

[Allex]

I finally got some instrumentation installed on mine:
Img_0964.jpg

Cycle Analyst is tied in now, but only measures the current going to the controller and not the dc-dc converter. I found the switched pack voltage line coming from the key and picked up one of the hall sensor signals for speed. I'm still sort of getting things dialed in, but the numbers are interesting. I wasn't trusting the current numbers at first so I borrowed a freshly calibrated Fluke Y8100 to verify the shunt calibration. It was off by about 3%, so I corrected it.

With the rear wheel off the ground, full speed, I measured 12.3A. This seems pretty high, but maybe normal for this large of a motor. I'd like to try it with the belt removed sometime to compare.

Hard take off (current limiting) I measured 77A. Maybe my controller is 'hotter' than normal? It is the older trapezoidal style. The current limit seems to be very precise and it stays there until the speed picks up enough for the current to drop.

I'll do more measurements once I get all the wiring tucked in.

So it seems the battery will really be the limiting factor in how hard it can get pushed. I'm looking at the possibility of adding more battery in parallel to the stock pack. With some additional cells, I can take some of the load off the stock pack which will reduce the amount of sag and allow more of the capacity to be used. If I use a single port BMS and parallel the two packs, I can charge both packs at the same time from the stock charge port.

Can confirm that it is around that.
Here is the stats with wheel off the ground doing 80km/h

And here is motor only(belt and chain removed) att full throttle:

Around 300Watts goes to belt, chain and the wheel spin.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=89902&start=3275#p1455685

And now same test with the belt, about 50 Watts less.
If anything goes as planned I will be able to send out the kits in a bout a month.

 

[fechter]

Thanks for posting the test results. The primary belt seems to eat up a lot but I guess that's normal. On mine I tried reducing the tension on the belt by one click and it made a slight improvement. I don't want to loosen it more than that though. Belts are supposed to run with a lot of tension.

So have you tried torture testing the secondary belt drive yet? Just curious to see how it does with full power.