Surly Troll - HS3540

[Mordan]

Well after many months of collecting the necessary parts I've finally finished it.
Sorry no before pic. As soon as I got it home took it straight apart. Original setup and component list can be found here.

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/troll

Here's how it looks now.

So started with one Surly Troll
changed forks to Rockshox REBA
Saddle for Brooks B17
Seatpost for ST Thudbuster


So as a noob and not wanting to many problems ordered a complete kit from Grin Tech.

HS3540 in 26" rim
9 speed freewheel
40amp sensor controller
2 48v 10Ah LiMn eZee batteries
cycle analyst V2.3
front/rear light kit
Rev4 torque arm
rear rack

Could not ask for an easier install, other than slight adjustment of rear derailleur and disk caliper,
went together perfectly even with 9 speed (slight spreading of dropouts by hand as slipping in wheel)



Cost 1 empty bank account lol
reward= Ebike grin PRICELESS!!
Now the fun starts UPGRADES.

 

[ambroseliao]

Nice clean build. Congrats! 8)

What type of rack and panniers are those?

 

[Mordan]

The panniers are Banjo Brothers only 100mm wide

The rack is a double layer one from Grin Tech.
cut the aluminum legs off, built a steel bottom half and JB Weld the two pieces together
Did not think the original aluminum bolts would take the weight.
Makes a great place for controller and wiring to hide.

 

[Chalo]

The original fork is one of the coolest features of that bike. The one you swapped in, meh. I'd like to see you try to put a Surly Nice Rack on that.

 

[Mordan]

Surly nice rack? do you mean nice surly rack
cannot see rack anyhow so why?
The roads I ride are pretty bad and after a days physical toil need it
already thinking next built full suspension !

 

[Chalo]

Surly nice rack? do you mean nice surly rack
cannot see rack anyhow so why?
The roads I ride are pretty bad and after a days physical toil need it
already thinking next built full suspension !

I forgot to put in the part where I thought you did a very tasteful and well-finished conversion. Allow me to say so here.

Lately I have been riding a couple of my fat tire bikes to work, a short distance over some particularly bad broken concrete pavement. It's slightly uphill to work, which is slow enough to make the surface conditions almost irrelevant; but the return trip is fast and bumpy. When I ride a bike with narrower tires (like less than 1.75"), I have to pick my way around the craters.

If I reverted to my previous habit of inflating my tires to their rated limits or a little higher, that downhill run would be a pretty sorry experience. But fat tires don't need maximum pressure, even at heavy weights like mine. I've been using 25psi front/35psi rear on my bike with 29x2.35" Big Apples and wide rims. They don't start to feel mushy until the front one drops to 18psi. And I use 15psi in my 26x3.5" rear tire on another bike. Between that and a sprung saddle, it's really cushy on any surface.

Anyway, I expect that something like 25psi/30psi in your roughly two inch tires (and a rigid fork) would yield an overall better ride on streets and paved surfaces than hard tires plus suspension. Your rims are plenty wide enough to provide good lateral tire support at low pressure. Most of the harshness and asperities on pavement are of a sort (surface roughness, cracks, and square edges) for which tires work best, as opposed to ruts, rocks, and washboarded surfaces where mechanical suspension does its best work. You can certainly stack both a soft tire and a boingy fork, though I find my 29er is happier on the street without its suspension fork than with it. It's lighter-feeling and more precise while just as comfortable as it was with the Marzocchi.

 

[Mordan]

Only one ride to work since I've finished it ( weather is nasty at moment)
13km one way, average speed of 36kmh top of 55kmh
two corners, five sets of lights.
return trip slight uphill all way, headwind, large voltage drop (hmm)
tires are 2.3 Kendra kiniptions
We all have our own ideas and preferences, And I'm glad that's the way it is
The world would be a very boring place otherwise.

 

[richmpdx]

Nice build. I have been thinking a lot about a similar build, that is a Surly troll with a rear hubmotor. But, the HS3540 is fairly heavy. It has advantages, I am using one in a different bike. An alternative might be a somewhat lighter geared hubmotor like a Mac or Ezee, although there is a trade off of more noise. Are you also using both batteries mounted in the rear? I would think with an HS3540 and 2 rear batteries the bike would be very heavy in the back. In any case, it looks great and if it meets your needs, that all that matters.
Rich

 

[Chalo]

Surly nice rack? do you mean nice surly rack

"Nice Rack" used to be Surly's name for their house brand chromoly touring racks. Evidently they've recently dropped the "nice" part.

Anyway, the Troll and its 29" brother Ogre are both equipped with a comprehensive set of bosses, braze-ons, and mounts for just about anything you'd care to bolt on. That's sort of the point of those bikes.

Having a lot of front mounting options makes distributing the weight of luggage or e-bike conversion parts a cinch. But suspension front forks offer no mounting options at all. That might work okay for you in your case, but it's something to be aware of for anyone laying out a new system. Having more places to attach things is mo' betta, and squishy forks offer none whatsoever.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Nice work, I really like the clean look. I did something very similar with my Ogre, but decided to center the weight with a frame battery and used the stock frame instead. I do find that the suspension from the fat tires are enough along with the thudbuster, but my roads are not that terrible.

Ogre
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51733

(Edit - i just saw your comment from my post. I'm glad there are more Surly ebikes out there!)

 

[Mordan]

Thanks cookie monster
when I saw your built and the similarities to mine had to say something
Surly frames do make good conversions, In Australia your only allowed to have 200w throttle only so stealth was a high priority
But with all the weight at back already reading up on LiPo And charge at work
40 Amp draw requires a high c rating or large LiMn battery
I think I'd better slow it down 55kmh is not stealth !

Chalo the ability to change things around on this frame was a plus but front panniers is not one of them
suspension has all ways featured on any mode of transport I've owned, much prefer it to solid frames

Oh no going to be late for work see ya!

 

[e-troll]

It's nice to see some Surly builds. I too ride a Surly Troll. Stock fork, rear 9C clone, and rack mounted battery. The weight distribution isn't optimal but it works for me. The main reason I opted for the Troll was the really beefy dropouts. I actually don't even have torque arms right now (running 1000w). Will put some on soon but I'm sure the frame would be just fine as is. I recently removed the wheel and there was zero distortion of the metal.

 

[Mordan]

Thanks richmpdx
like it is now very heavy, before rack and one 10Ah batt in each pannier was possible to pick up bike from nose of saddle and perfectly balanced.
Did think about smaller geared motor, but wanted simplicity of DD hub.
And now I would like more Amps (know the HS3540 can take it)
Hence the idea of say 8Ah of LiPo and charge at work. Not much space in the triangle, and would become more noticeable.
At the moment working on USB charging ports to run rear facing camera and screen on handle bars.

Once I'm happy with set up, Get a set of Doctorbass torque arms and epoxy them on and run regen.

 

[richmpdx]

Hmm, how many amps do you want to feed it? 48 V batteries should come off the charger at about 60 V and with 2 of those 10AH batteries you should be good for 50 amps continuous or about 3 kw. The 3 kw into a 3540 would probably be OK on the flat where you wouldn't use that power for very long, but if you were climbing a lot of hills you might want to monitor hubmotor temperature.

Rich

 

[Chalo]

Once I'm happy with set up, Get a set of Doctorbass torque arms and epoxy them on and run regen.

Consider using mechanical fasteners for that job, rather than defacing your frame and then relying on an adhesive whose properties are highly variable according to surface prep and temperature.

It's not like the Troll has a scarcity of places to bolt on. Heck, use those big M10x1.0 trailer boss threads for an overkill solution that's 10^6 times more reliable than glue, and much easier to implement.

 

[Mordan]

Dp420 epoxy applied correctly and at right temp will handle 3kw easily, this is not my only frame.
my peddle only bike is great used it for years and would not change it.(squishy forks also :lol: )

Temp sensor is already installed, just need monitor interface, should just get CA v3

 

[Chalo]

Why not buy a frame that's glued together from steel tubes rather than welded, then?

For what it's worth, most of the bonded metal frames ever made were threaded first, with adhesive applied to the threads. That way they don't come apart completely when the glue fails.