Tempted by a Zero eMotorcycle

Alan B

100 GW
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
7,809
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, USA
I've followed the Zero motorcycle developments for years, test ridden one a few years ago (report further below), and am still intrigued by the idea of getting one. The technology is getting quite good. Is it time?

I just don't know if it would get enough use for me. I put about 100k miles on a motorcycle commuting years ago, but things are changing. In a few months I'll be retiring from my day job, so that commute will go away. I have several excellent ebikes and would like to build a couple more at least. Even they may get a lot less use, or perhaps they will get more?

I have no idea where this discussion is going, just brainstorming.

So what do folks do with their electric motorcycles, do you still use your ebikes, do you find it useful to have an electric motorcycle and still have a gaggle of ebikes?

I occasionally go to the desert with Quads, a Zero FX would be fun there as well. I like the removable batteries of the FX and the lower cost. It still seems to have a lot of performance, enough to have plenty of fun.

I am interested in folks thoughts, especially those that either did get electric motorcycles, or those that considered it and decided to stick with ebikes.

Thanks in advance!
 
Alan B said:
I have no idea where this discussion is going, just brainstorming.

So what do folks do with their electric motorcycles, do you still use your ebikes, do you find it useful to have an electric motorcycle and still have a gaggle of ebikes?

I occasionally go to the desert with Quads, a Zero FX would be fun there as well. I like the removable batteries of the FX and the lower cost. It still seems to have a lot of performance, enough to have plenty of fun.

I am interested in folks thoughts, especially those that either did get electric motorcycles, or those that considered it and decided to stick with ebikes.

Thanks in advance!

That is an excellent question and i feel i'm concerned a bit as i had 3 Zero from now ( i still have 2) and 2 working DH E-bikes and since 2014 a electric car... so i have the trio !

I have to admit that last uear i did alot more km on my Zero than on my ebikes... i just felt.. hmmm today witch i will take for a ride... lol... ebike or Zero...

Personally i have choose to use my Zero S 2012 for long trip and few regular short ride after the work.. just to feel that liberty in these great road crossing the forest with nice landscape.

I never ride any of my ebike in the middle of the road.. it's only my Zero. and the feeling is completly different.. with teh Zero i know i can ride where any car ca go... but not with teh Ebikes.

On the otehr side all my ebikes can go in the forest for great offroad rides..... but my Zero can't

So in conclusion all my type of EV have their own purpose and provide different fellings :wink:

Allan, did you ever test drive a FX or a SR ?

Doc
 
Doctorbass said:
...

Allan, did you ever test drive a FX or a SR ?

Doc

Thanks for your thoughtful comments Doc,

The Zero I test drove a few years ago was probably the dirt model at the time, with a chain drive. Maybe a 2012, I don't recall the year. A local dealer brought them to my workplace for some event and I test drove it around the worksite, a hillside campus with fairly low speed limits. You could feel the power on the gradients but not get much speed. It was a brushed motor as I recall. So nothing like a new one, I'm sure.

I could test drive a 2015, there's a dealer about 25 miles away.
 
The improvement with the new 75-X serie motor that was developed improved ALOT the performances of the 2013+ zero!

so the one you tried if it was in 2012 was probably with a Mars (XU), Agni( X and MX) or Motonergy ( S-DS)
All the new Zero use the 75-X serie. The FX use the 75-5 motor ( 5cm width stator/rotor inrunner high torque) and the S, DS, SR use the 75-7 (7cm stator/rotor inrunner med speed and med torque)

The 75-7 can take 50kW. The other Me0913 from the 2012 S-DS was 30kW.

I have replaced the Me0913 from my S 2012 with the new 75-7 motor and it make a huge diff for the torque!!.. I would say a feeling like twice more torque for the same current!

The new motor sound is also really interesting!

I would say that your experience with a 2012 or even worst a 2011- Zero just can not compare to the new improved 2013 + zero!

Take a break and go t your local zero Dealer and take a FX or a SR for few miles !! .. and get prepared to be convinced to get one !! :wink:

The famous EV grin come pretty fast! :mrgreen:

Doc

Doc
 
The FX is a beast and you will likely fall in love at first ride (especially so with the 2015).

I would recommend taking the SR and DS for a test ride as well.
 
This morning I went to Contra Costa Powersports and did a couple of test rides. The Zero FX and the Zero DS.

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To provide perspective on my comments below I provide a little background. While in college, I commuted with bicycle, moved to a Moped, then a Honda CB125S and finally a CX500D. I put lots of miles on the bikes, especially the CX500 - a watercooled shaft drive small touring bike. I moved to a different house and didn't have a good place to store the motorcycle so it didn't get ridden and was sold. So I have a lot of riding experience on a 500 pound motorcycle, but it was over 20 years ago.

I started building ebikes in 2010 and have four that span the range from mountain bike to recumbent to the Croborg. They weigh from 50 to 120 pounds, and at least one has a lot of performance.

I started this morning with the Zero FX. This bike had two battery packs installed for a total of just under 6 kWh of battery. I ran both bikes on a loop on three different freeways, plus various multilane surface streets. After the FX I tested a 12 kWh DS.

First of all, for those who keep claiming that an ebike with a hubmotor over 1kW is a Motorcycle, you really need to go test drive an electric motorcycle. These are different beasts altogether. These machines are in the 300-400 pound class, up to more than three times my heaviest ebike, and they pull very hard during acceleration right up to 70 mph which is as far as I went. The FX is a bit lighter than the DS, but the DS has a higher torque motor. These don't feel anything like an ebike, aside from having handlebars and wind in your face. At 70 the wind force is substantial, just turning my head subjected my neck to considerable extra force. They really need at least small fairings on these bikes.

The weight and frame geometry lends a significant feeling of stability, and the power is right there, with excellent response and control. I've grown accustomed to the similar excellent control on the Sabvoton equipped CroBorg which has a real torque throttle, but it is not ebike-like as most ebikes have poor jerky controls. One of my goals is to bring all my ebikes to this level of excellent control.

The FX is a bit higher and the seat narrower, the DS carries the battery weight lower and has a lower seat height. They both have onboard chargers, good dual mirrors, disable switch on the massive kickstand, and full controls including turn signals, DOT rated headlights, horn and fenders. Very few ebikes have many of these features.

The DS was smoother and more comfortable and felt good between the knees. The FX felt a little rougher, but both had good handling and control. I think I agree with Luke, the DS would be a slightly better choice. But the FX is a workhorse and would do the job as well within its range.

It was a fun morning, and thanks again to Nelson at Contra Costa Powersports for the opportunity to test ride these bikes.

One thing was interesting - they have only the demo bikes, if you decide to buy one Zero builds it for you and it takes a couple weeks to have it built and delivered. The tax rebate is currently $900. No, I didn't buy one. Not today anyhow. I need to decide if it would get enough use. The weight of these bikes makes me appreciate how very lightweight my 120 pound CroBorg is!
 
Just wanted to add that the regen on the Zero is "slip regen", from the throttle and mode settings. The front and rear brakes are direct controls to disc brakes, no regen involved. The Bosch ABS gets involved in the braking of course, but I did not test that. :)

One finger is enough to do major braking on the single front wheel disc. Huge stopping power.
 
You can tune how much regen from your phone, it does have braking activated regen as well.
 
I found this in my CroBorg thread (page 6) from April 26, 2012:

... I took a test ride yesterday of the Zero 2012 dual-sport. So now I've test ridden both Stevil's HT powered race-winning Greyborg and the Zero.

One interesting thing about the Zero. When I was first getting into ebikes and reading about the Zero the wife indicated she would rather I got an emotorcycle like the Zero than an ebike. Her reasoning was that the emoto could compete better with traffic and be safer. I had ridden a 500cc motorcycle for years without problems but haven't had a motorcycle for a long time.

It is interesting to compare them. For me there are two use cases they would both be used for. One is commuting to work, 13 miles, half 50mph limit highway along the lake and half windy hilly through the park 25mph limit. Actual speeds tend to run higher, of course. The other is dirt, camping, desert type uses which I won't cover here since I haven't tested either in that mode.

This was a brief test ride at work where the streets are narrow and pretty steep (7%) and the speed limit low. The seat on the dual-sport Zero is pretty high, but not a problem for me to straddle. It feels good, but on this short ride I won't be on it long enough to gauge its longterm comfort. The pegs are lightweight but effective which is the theme on the whole machine - they are working hard to keep the machine's weight down so they can save the weight budget for the battery. As you stand up the bike you feel the weight. Substantial, but less than my former motorcycle, a 500 cc water cooled shaft drive v-twin.

The kickstand is substantial but light, and easy to reach. It has a switch that interlocks the motor, so you can't power off until it is up, a nice safety feature. The throttle and front brake are on the right, on the left grip there is no clutch lever. The rear brake is on the right toe, the usual configuration for a USA motorcycle, aside from the missing clutch. The kill switch is on the right thumb, very similar to one I bought on ebay for my ebike. The dual mirrors are somewhat small and angular, probably designed to minimize air resistance while providing useful coverage. They seem to provide a useful view though not an expansive one. Having dual mirrors is nice, I've been doing single mirrors on my ebikes and I occasionally look for the missing right side mirror reflexively.

Flip the key on, the LCD speedo comes to life. Set the SPORT/ECO switch in ECO, make sure the kill switch is off. I'm starting on a gradient so holding the rear brake and rolling the throttle gently on, hear/feel some motor power pulses and release the brake, it rolls backward a bit. Quite a bit more throttle is required to get moving forward, and it takes off at a crawl. Incredible low speed low power control. You can easily ride at very low speed.

I did a loop around the hilly streets, gliding along and hitting the throttle progressively harder to see what it would do. No surprises. Good power, accelerates smoothly up hills. Competent. With my recent ebike experience I know they are managing this motor to keep it safe, cool and efficient, not pouring excess power into it. It feels like a good solid machine, not a thrill generating rocket. I flip the ECO switch to SPORT and test again. More powerful, still not a rocket. Feels good. Excellent brakes and throttle control. It is so easy to ride at near zero speed I almost forget to put my foot down at a stopsign. The extra high and forward weight of the battery makes this bike very easy to balance.

The turn signal control is spring loaded, so you can't leave it locked on, but the blinkers continue after it returns to center. I suspect it will time out, or you can cancel it by pushing it inward. Nice to have a turn signal, hand signalling on bikes creates some risks of its own. Turn signals on ebikes is a whole discussion of its own. But it feels good to have it, easy to use, and safe. I need to think about that more on my ebikes.

As I bring it back I need to turn it around on a gradient in the parking lot. The weight is noticeable, and the restricted steering angle. Much harder to maneuver around than an ebike which will turn much sharper plus you can always lift an end or even stand it on one wheel.

As I think back about the ride I realize I didn't notice the suspension. This is good, it works well, nothing to complain about.

So ebike vs Greyborg for my commute - how would that compare? The highway part of my commute is 50 mph with a wide shoulder, so with the emotorcycle (em/c) I could stick with traffic speed and save some time. Until it stacks up from too many cars. Then it is hard to stay legal and thread through it on the em/c. I see motorcycles threading into the bike lane, not supposed to do that, but they occasionally do.

On this part of the route the ebike has a pretty nice (most of the way) wide lane to itself. Not as clean, not always clear (disabled vehicles and clutter end up in the bike lane). So you can move along at bike speeds while the cars whiz by (watch them carefully though, some wander into the bike lane). Running high speeds in the bike lane is not a great idea, it just isn't that clutter-free. If the ebike will do 55 mph one could merge into the car lane, and that would be safer, but not really legal. My Greyborg is not being set up for 55, though it is possible to do that with over 100 volts.

When the cars stack up sliding alongside them in the bike lane at 20 mph is nice. It can save more time than was lost earlier if the stack is very deep. Then I peel off and turn into the hills, winding and climbing. The speed limit is 25, there are lots of corners, and the pavement is not good nor the roads wide. Here the Zero would be in its element, fun, perfect. Easily able to slide past the lycras which the cars have trouble passing. Possible to pass the slow cars safely. Fun. The ebike is not bad, a strong one like the Greyborg will keep speed equal to most cars, so the danger of getting passed would be minimized. Both Zero and Greyborg are excellent for this part of the trip, but Zero would be a bit faster.

Arriving at work the Zero would have to be parked outside. Finding a place with a power outlet to charge from would be a challenge. I might be able to get an extension cord or outlet positioned to use. Hard to predict. The Borg can be brought into my office. Out of the weather, away from prying eyes and fingers, and charging is no problem. Bringing a heavy ebike in up a few stairs and in the door is a bit of a challenge, but not hard. Make sure those lipos don't flare up indoors. :shock:

Taking the bikes places is also quite different. The em/c would require a trailer. I have one, but it is a hassle to load, unload and park with it. The bike rack is a lot easier to deal with. Hopefully my bike rack will be up to the Borg's weight, being a bit more than the usual bike. :)

It was a fun test ride, and I'd like to have a Zero. Someday perhaps I will get one. Thanks for the test ride, Dean of Pleasanton Mastercraft!

edit - note that Pleasanton Mastercraft does not seem to be a Zero dealer anymore.
 
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