Terra Trike Tour 2 - budget performance conversion.

[SlowCo]

Also, free picture post.
20210523_150055.jpg

You have very nice toys 8)

 

[thundercamel]

Pretty sweet that the torque arm lined right up with the fender/rack mount holes.

 

[HackD]

Also, free picture post.
20210523_150055.jpg

You have very nice toys 8)

30+ years of hoarding, without very much in the way of anything actually leaving, up until recently.. that's actually a now organized garage, with a down-sized hoard (it hurt, trust me)..

The sidecar rig i built ~20 years ago - it's sat for 10 years now. Everything in the garage was a project, and will likely be a project, again..

Thanks .. i get as much enjoyment out of spinning wrenches, as riding.

 

[HackD]

Pretty sweet that the torque arm lined right up with the fender/rack mount holes.

That was an amazing coincidence!

 

[HackD]

Off the axle stands, and First roll-out, albeit no gear selection or power due to grips not being in yet - I need those to route the cabling and wiring under to fully enable.. however, good enough for a first time pedal-only shake-down cruise at dusk to see if anything fell off... nothing did

 

[HackD]

Controller is DOA.. as such, it has to get RMA'd.. delaying completion of this project.

I ain't happy with Golden Motors, at this time.

 

[HackD]

The Controller was received back on Friday, that was RMA'd. It was defective.

I've been carefully putting it back together, making the electrical connections, installing the additional controls and wiring requred special attention for wiring routing. Concurrently, running on the shifter cable setup up front, and it's a good.

It was good enough to get out for a around 11:00pm, lit up a Christmas Tree, under Power.

Whoowee.. 40 km/h on thumb throttle. I have yet to install PAS.

Final wire routing a a shifter cable tomorrow, and it is done.

Lots more Photos, Video, walk-around test, soon.

 

[HackD]

As of yesterday, it's now 'on the road'... project satisfaction is 9/10.. i've gotta replace a rear shifter/derailleur assembly at some point, after breaking it running the chain off, while adjusting everything.. but like Red Green (Canadian Comedian known for Kludge fixes usually involving bailing wire and duct tape) i improvised and zip-tied it together for the interim.



It's good for 45km/h on the throttle, which is a bit ridiculous for a Trike..

First real road-run..

https://youtu.be/eLRsQm5YwAw

Walk-around video..

https://youtu.be/sJFfL_ib98M

 

[ccihon]

Very nice build! I had a TT "3.2" which was an earlier version of the Tour model - I assume they made some improvements there, as I recall mine got very squirrely and unpredictable at speeds over 27mph or so. I think this was due to their early steering geometry.

I have converted my current ActionBent trike, and it is in some ways similar to yours. Similar top speed, maybe a bit more as I have a 26" rear wheel, and no suspension. I don't have your fabrication skills, so my build is definitely "Red Green" comparatively. Your video shows that that can be punishing for poor roads, but I am fortunate the roads I ride are quite smooth. Adding fat tires at lower pressures can smooth things out on a rigid-frame trike - I see you have wider ones on there so that is likely helping.

The other thing I would never do without on a trike, especially one bouncing over rough pavement, are clip-in pedals. Not so much for the pedaling efficiency they offer, but for the fact they tie your feet actively to the pedals. This makes it easier to keep your legs extended forward for long periods, but also is a safety thing - I cringe at the though my leg drops down and is pulled backward under the trike - could it happen? Maybe is enough for me. Trikes also remove the fear upright riders have about losing their balance while clipped in.

FYI - the walk-around link you posted is for a gas-powered bike rather than the TT.

 

[HackD]

@ccihon:

Sonofa... I don't know how that URL Shortcut became a Fail..

Correct walkaround link is this: https://youtu.be/sJFfL_ib98M

My Apologies.

That gas-bike is actually a Hybrid gas/Tongsheng TSDZ2 earlier project. Not sure how that got linked in when i was gathering everything together with initial post.

I do have clip-ins, and they are now being used 100% of the time. That was literally one of the first, preliminary 'test boots'.. and that was pretty much quite enough of that foolishness.. you are correct, they instill confidence, efficiency, safety in all aspects. The clip-ins aren't a personal good match on a bicycle - i already fall down too much.. that's why the Trike!

I definitely am testing the reasonable limits of a rigid setup. I recognize that myself. So far i am learning to avoid potholes of any kind.. it's very responsive yet stable to sudden directional changes, which i attribute to the rear/centralized low CofG. Very stable on Downhills, as well as able to get up steep gravel, due to weight/large contact patch. I'll see if i break a frame, in time...

 

[ccihon]

Great walk-around - impressive custom fabs for battery and controller etc. How much rider height was added over the original mesh seat when you added the hard shell one? the overall COG remains quite low given the lower battery mounting, I'm sure.

I see the spd pedals there, too. My CroMo TT frame was very strong so I think it is up-to-task here. I'm a heavy guy and now have an aluminum-frame trike, and I sometimes wonder about the strength of the frame over rough terrain, etc.

I think a trike with 406 wheels all around adds to the side to side rigidity compared to the big wheel trikes. On hard cornering I sense some rear flex on mine, but that is 26" rear with aluminum "single fork" rear end. I see you still have the triple up front - did your hub motor allow for 8sp or higher cassette, or is it 7sp freewheel? Thats one thing I gave up with the conversion, going to just 7 speeds. Not a big deal, except I'm considering swapping the freewheel to something like 11-28 rather that the 14-28 I have on there. Did you have to "cold swage" - ie bend the rear dropout spacing to accommodate the hub width there?

Interested to hear how this thing works out as transport over time. The issues I fret about on mine are heat - motor and controller, and strength. So far so good - hot summer days are tough when you box up the controller, I have found. I see you have cooling fans in the brain box.

 

[HackD]

I really wasn't paying attention to the seat height gain, nor did any real comparison between the two. I believe i minimized an increase with my method of making an adapter mount that approximated the dimensions of original seat mount attached to frame, with a minimal height mount that spread loading across the seat pan. The hard-shell seat alone is fiberglass, and weight a touch less than the original mesh seat by itself. my fabrication was all Aluminum, so not as heavy as it could have been, given limitations of my fabrication tooling.

I'm a very lightweight guy at ~135 lbs soaking wet, so overall additional weight on the trike setup was of secondary importance to me as i am compensating with own lack of body weight.

The rear wheel setup is setup to accept a 7 speed cluster - i elected to bring that down to a 6 speed 14-28 Shimano cluster, as i had to account for the increased cross-section of the oversized tire that i am running, in addition to spacing out the rear idler wheels to give the chain-line a good angle of approach to clear tire carcass - which also worked with the chain tunnel that i built into the battery mount. I didn't consider spreading out the dropout spacing, as i consider that a distant secondary option of 'fixing' any fitting problem, in terms of potential things that could go wrong with cold-forcing an already stressed area of the frame, given the seat stays aren't a structural item, as per a traditional bicycle frame to triangulate. So far i have no complaint about the relatively limited gear ratios to choose from.

The controller itself, is located internally in the wheel. The Brain-box is the main wiring junction point, containing power inverter, relays, fuse box - all that is necessary to cover the 12v side of things. Active cooling was definitely a must to consider.

 

[HackD]

Nearly 3 weeks on, i'm having a blast with this thing. I've rolled it over (low speed) once, put on about 500km, and have been enjoying life go by at 2 feet high..

I did a major improvement for the overall utility of the Terratrike - unfortunately the OEM rear rack was sold out - so i had to Improvise. A heavy duty Rambo front rack was retrofitted onto the back, involving a few adapter brackets, and i'm currently working on a fender mount setup to prevent future skunking incidents arising out of spinning the rear wheel through mud-holes..

 

[ccihon]

I just watched your YT ride video "Gravity Loop" - looks like the project has worked out well. I may have missed this from your build posts, but notice only the thumb throttle, and no obvious torque or cadence PAS sensor? If none, are you just applying throttle assist along with pedal input as desired?

Also, I think your build may share one shortcoming my trike also has - a rigid frame with no suspension. It is often difficult to dodge even smaller road obstacles, especially with three wheel tracks on the ground rather than one, as on an upright bike. I am not bothered all that much by the rough ride, but sometimes am concerned these bumps and sharp shocks take their toll on the equipment and mountings over time.

I should not worry about it - a full-suspension trike is out of my price range at the moment.

 

[pullin-gs]

Nice build.
For the final build, how much does it weigh?

 

[Urban Fatbiker]

Enjoyed the build thread. I have my own early Terra Trike, drum brakes, SRAM DualDrive 3×7 rear, fitted with 750W BBS02B.

I noted this comment from another:

as I recall mine got very squirrely and unpredictable at speeds over 27mph or so. I think this was due to their early steering geometry.

Bought mine used. First thing I did was open up kingpins for M10 bushings (16mm OD), replaced the hardened cap screw shoulder bolt with custom machined bearing shaft bolts with reliefs from McMaster Carr. HUGE difference in steering. I mean what da heck, shoulder bolts??

Toe-in adjustment is critical, those floppy kingpin threaded bolts don't help. Best adjusted when loaded w/ your butt in seat.

I feel pretty good at 30mph. My range in a hilly area with a fat thumb on throttle 25miles. More if I pedal. I do a lot of street riding so I keep it moving pretty fast.

I'll have to do a build thread soon. Kudos to yours!

 

[ZeroEm]

Nice. I like trike builds. 30 mph is fast enough for me.

 

[Urban Fatbiker]

Nice. I like trike builds. 30 mph is fast enough for me.

Yeah, there’s only so much stability, only sightseeing is for road hazards. But I have to get my 30mph dose of daredevil in, so those 8mph rides with wife ‘look at the flowers’ on my Boombot instead of rude tunes is bearable.

I’m eyeballing that seat on HackD trike.

 

[ZeroEm]

I have a fiberglass seat and like it. I'm heavy and it holds me well. BUT! after 4 hrs in that thing I feel like someone ruffed me up.
HackD seat looks nicer than mine. Performer has a wider seat than I have now, have been thinking about getting it.

HackD seat has wings to help hold you on. Not that I slide around but have been dismounted before. Nothing like going fast on a trike a few inches above the ground. think my lowest point is 4". The speed is fun, after a bit it loses it's enjoyment can not relax.
I do a lot of riding with others, at low speeds I have become sleepy it so relaxing.

I have been looking at this one!

 

[HackD]

I just watched your YT ride video "Gravity Loop" - looks like the project has worked out well. I may have missed this from your build posts, but notice only the thumb throttle, and no obvious torque or cadence PAS sensor? If none, are you just applying throttle assist along with pedal input as desired?

Also, I think your build may share one shortcoming my trike also has - a rigid frame with no suspension. It is often difficult to dodge even smaller road obstacles, especially with three wheel tracks on the ground rather than one, as on an upright bike. I am not bothered all that much by the rough ride, but sometimes am concerned these bumps and sharp shocks take their toll on the equipment and mountings over time.

I should not worry about it - a full-suspension trike is out of my price range at the moment.

I have everything on hand to install the PAS.. never got around to put it in/splice in the wiring for it.

As you have observed, i have become used to feeding in whatever power i need via Thumb throttle to augment my pedaling. Or if feeling lazy, just do it Mario Cart style, throttle alone. Generally, i get by with 100w indicated on the gauge to keep it above 15km/h on the flat and level.

Apparently the PAS option on this Magic Pie, isn't tunable to pref's.. it's all or nothing with PAS.. so Throttle control is good enough for now.

Yes, the Rigid suspension is this setup's weak point. I actually explosively blew out a front tire 10km from home, going over an expansion joint that had subsided - if i had a modicum of suspension, that wouldn't have likely happened. I have grown comfortable with the limitations of Rigid suspension, and am likely close to exploring it's limitations now, after ~750km of getting used to the familiar double track trails local to me. I also am concerned for the long term viability of components - heck, even Frame/Weld strength, given what i'm expecting it to do now.

As such - i am exploring my options - i also am not cash-rich enough to afford a full suspended Trike as a basis for another build - but i do obviously have some fabrication skills (if by laborious methodology). I am actually looking into the preliminaries of building up a frame, to suit my needs/desires over the winter. Lots to read up on Geometry/frame design. I will likely recycle the Terratrike's major components that are usable into that build, if i proceed (likely another winter project).

 

[HackD]

Nice build.
For the final build, how much does it weigh?

I haven't actually broken out a scale, but it's in the 140 LB range.

Bare trike was ~45 lbs
Rear wheel assembly ~35 lbs
Twin Battery packs - ~17 lbs each? They are heavy.
Additional miscellaneous fabrication/hardware/additional racks - ~25 lbs

Around 140 lbs, is my generous guestimate. I offset it, at 130lbs, soaking wet.

No lightweight, but it rolls pretty easy to get it going, and has some inertia to keep going on it's own.

 

[HackD]

Enjoyed the build thread. I have my own early Terra Trike, drum brakes, SRAM DualDrive 3×7 rear, fitted with 750W BBS02B.

I noted this comment from another:

as I recall mine got very squirrely and unpredictable at speeds over 27mph or so. I think this was due to their early steering geometry.

Bought mine used. First thing I did was open up kingpins for M10 bushings (16mm OD), replaced the hardened cap screw shoulder bolt with custom machined bearing shaft bolts with reliefs from McMaster Carr. HUGE difference in steering. I mean what da heck, shoulder bolts??

Toe-in adjustment is critical, those floppy kingpin threaded bolts don't help. Best adjusted when loaded w/ your butt in seat.

I feel pretty good at 30mph. My range in a hilly area with a fat thumb on throttle 25miles. More if I pedal. I do a lot of street riding so I keep it moving pretty fast.

I'll have to do a build thread soon. Kudos to yours!

:thumb:

In the past 3 months since completion, i certainly have broken my project in, without actually breaking it (with one notable Act of God Exception - explosively blown out tire 10 km away from home... i stuffed the split tire with Grass to get home, LOL).

The Steering setup/'kingpins' are definitely a weak point. Keep loosening everything up.. in spite of Red Locktite. Above 30mph (50 km/h) the Steering is definitely Sketchy. Horrible bump-steer. As is, for my needs, i need to look at a steering damper at the very least, with me bumping up against that 50km/h handling limitation.. going into an higher speed uncontrollable oscillating bump-steer situation on a 13 Degree downslope initiated by manhole imperfections and degrading pavement, DEFINITELY isn't recommended.

I'm hugely enjoying the eTrike for my specific (admittedly somewhat nutbar) needs/wants as a Gravity Hill chaser/exercise motivator, but the limitations are getting potentially dangerous with this rigid chassis.

As such, as mentioned in an earlier reply, i'm exploring options - including a complete DIY frame replacement with a full suspension setup.

 

[HackD]

I have a fiberglass seat and like it. I'm heavy and it holds me well. BUT! after 4 hrs in that thing I feel like someone ruffed me up.
HackD seat looks nicer than mine. Performer has a wider seat than I have now, have been thinking about getting it.

HackD seat has wings to help hold you on. Not that I slide around but have been dismounted before. Nothing like going fast on a trike a few inches above the ground. think my lowest point is 4". The speed is fun, after a bit it loses it's enjoyment can not relax.
I do a lot of riding with others, at low speeds I have become sleepy it so relaxing.

I have been looking at this one!
ice-adventure-recumbent-trike-ergo-luxe-seat_2.jpeg

The fiberglass seat has saved my butt/kept it from bouncing out of it, a time or two, definitely. The wings while shallow/not enough to be overly obtrusive, do allow me to 'hang out' to a good degree, without danger of unseating in an unexpected steering bump situation in cornering. I'm an old-school motorcyclist, i like to let it all hang out of the seat in a good downhill corner. It's not the widest seat going - but i'm also rail-thin, and can generally hide behind flag-poles.

It was a lot of work to adapt to my needs, yet so worth it.

I'm not into Group rides at all.. never was. The one time i joined up recently at a recumbent meet and greet, well.. i had to peel off after 5 km..

I'm all about the varied pace - that's the advantage of riding alone - ride according to own agenda.

I must confess i'm a bit of an Adrenaline Junkie.. in measured dosages. Right now, this Trike is the Prescription. 30 mph 5 inches off the floor on a downhill roller, is the same sensation to me, of 120+ mph on a Sportbike back in the day.

Sometimes i'm good with a mellow midnight cruise on the local double-track trail winding through the woods, to some Atmospheric music in my helmet..

I'm getting brave enough that i might want to see 40 mph soon..

 

[HackD]

Latest ride/exercise loop, captured on video. Approximately 24 minutes total, door to door.

https://youtu.be/C9PB1U3XjmY

Current configuration. I robbed a removable GIVI top-box off my Suzuki Bandit.

 

[ZeroEm]

by HackD » Aug 27 2021 10:28pm

The fiberglass seat has saved my butt/kept it from bouncing out of it, a time or two, definitely. The wings while shallow/not enough to be overly obtrusive, do allow me to 'hang out' to a good degree, without danger of unseating in an unexpected steering bump situation in cornering. I'm an old-school motorcyclist, i like to let it all hang out of the seat in a good downhill corner. It's not the widest seat going - but i'm also rail-thin, and can generally hide behind flag-poles.

It was a lot of work to adapt to my needs, yet so worth it.

I'm not into Group rides at all.. never was. The one time i joined up recently at a recumbent meet and greet, well.. i had to peel off after 5 km..

I'm all about the varied pace - that's the advantage of riding alone - ride according to own agenda.

I must confess i'm a bit of an Adrenaline Junkie.. in measured dosages. Right now, this Trike is the Prescription. 30 mph 5 inches off the floor on a downhill roller, is the same sensation to me, of 120+ mph on a Sport bike back in the day.

I'm getting brave enough that i might want to see 40 mph soon..

I tried to set the steering to the recommended 0 toe-in. Tires were wearing, shimming, just did not drive well. Little bit at a time added some toe-in. Tires started wearing better, shimming stopped. I have not seen how far I can go to get in to negative results.

I wished trikes had more adjustments for the front tires. Camber and caster. This year I will try a 24" rear tire to see the affect on steering. Should add Camber (not sure if its - or +) to see if it helps or hurts. Wished the Caster was maybe a deg less.

Most trikes drive ok for low speeds. Getting above 30+ mph you want to tune it a bit. If the 24" wheel helps later I may try a 29" rear and 24" fronts. The ride will be smoother, will lose some turning radius.

I have rear suspension with 26" wheel, it's great. Would like front suspension, don't know how much. Catrikes have a front suspension with small travel. Maybe great for roads. The others with longer travel seem great for off roads. The talk seems that it hurts steering. So I don't really know. Wish I had a chance to try them out?