Best quality budget battery?

R

rocketman58

10 mW
Joined
Aug 6, 2022
Messages
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I am adding a rear hub motor and battery to another recumbent trike. The kit I used on the first trike came with a 17.2Ah shark battery. Having learned a lot from the first build, this time I am not using a kit but building it from scratch. This trike will be used for casual rides in a hilly area, including some off pavement trails. While it is tempting to get a 20Ah or larger battery, I'm trying to keep the weight (and cost) down.

I have been searching on Amazon for a 15Ah or 17Ah shark type battery. It has been frustrating at best due to limited or conflicting specs and prices that vary greatly for what looks to be similar batteries. I'm sure the key work there is "looks". To narrow the selection down, I am focusing on those batteries that have LG or Samsung cells. These tend to be more expensive but it should give me a better chance at getting a decent battery.

Can anyone point me to something on Amazon that matches what I am looking for? You know, the elusive best bang for the buck.

PS: I have a 500w Bafang geared rear hub motor laced to a 20" rim, and I am using a KT 22A controller. 48v system.

Thanks.
 
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Where are you located?

I personally like em3ev and ebikes.ca for batteries. I haven't shopped at amazon since 2018 due to monopolistic practices and the quality of merchandise going to crap, so i can't help there.
 
I built a battery before I had an ebike... In all honesty it was not that hard a build, I picked up a kit from.. I think it was actually Temu for the first one, banged out what I was doing, jacked it up a couple times and then got it all worked out. It is still in use a couple years later (albeit I suspect it is probably well due for a refresh)

If ya look around AliBaba you can get battery bolt-ons that are empty
For Example
then I would say hit up CL or whatnot see if someone isn't locally selling batteries.
Example 2
Figure out what you want to put up and away you go.

or IIRC (sorry folks, fever kicked in so getting less specific thoughts wise) I am fairly certain someone not fevered will link it, but there were a few people advertising in the for sale section about doing batt builds.. Lots of options besides the ol pig in a poke of ordering on-line.
and if you want a monster (yeah I have these things saved, forgive me my toils as an organiser for a bunch of Engy's)
like so
I would offer help, but probably only if you were local. I still have the heebie jeebies about accepting money for Engineering type work without the fancy wallpaper to go with it.
 
UPP, Unit Pack Power occasionally sells on amazon. Or maybe it;s a imitator. UPP has a mixed reputation on this forum, but when they say they use LG or Samsung cells, they do. My last UPP pack, in a Hailong case, did not use premium cells because I was feeling cheap. Bought in 2021 and still OK with light use. I also have some from 2017-2018 still kicking around. They have Samsung cells.

There seem to be other amazon vendors with names apparently generated by a password generator. I wouldn't trust them,
 
In my personal experience, "brand new" and "budget battery" together always turn out to be a disappointment. I've had much better results (not to say perfect) by buying cheap second life batteries that cost somebody a fat bundle on their first pass. There is usually some homework involved to get the packaging and BMS/balancing to where I want it. But in return you get a battery built to industrial standards rather than fly by night hobby stuff.

Of course, in that case you don't get to quibble about size and shape, energy density, capacity, etc. You work with the good deal you find. For this reason I use a standard rear rack latching attachment, but I leave space around it for whatever case accommodates the pack I am using. Given that most recumbent trikes only offer any luggage space by accident, this might be a good approach for your machine.
 
It does not have to be Amazon, it's just that I've had good luck with them in the past.

I'm looking for a 48v battery.

I did find UPP on Amazon. I was concentrating on the batteries they claimed have LG or Samsung cells. They are more expensive, but I do not want something unknown just to save a few bucks.
 
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UPP is probably the low priced budget champion but their construction quality is a bit lacking aid i wouldn't trust it long term.

We see very few complaints about bikes with em3ev and ebikes.ca batteries. Both are really good in terms of matching the cells and using good battery constriction.
 
I found the UPP store on both eBay and Amazon. I also found other sellers offering UPP batteries, but I'm not sure I would trust them. I'd rather go right to the source. For $305 I can get a 17.5Ah built with Samsung 3500 cells, or $369 for a 20Ah built with LG 21700 cells. Either would have free shipping from the local (to me) warehouse.

I also looked at em3ev and ebikes.ca. A 17Ah with charger will run $489 plus and additional $88 shipping from em3ev. From ebikes.ca, a 19Ah with charger will run $826 by the time you include shipping. Maybe more if there are any import fees. Both are over double the price of similar sized UPP batteries.

The 17.5Ah UPP battery has a 4 pin and the larger 20Ah has the newer 5 pin connector. Is there any problem with the older 4 pin?
 
neptronix said:
UPP is probably the low priced budget champion but their construction quality is a bit lacking aid i wouldn't trust it long term.
Click to expand...

That's exactly my assessment of them. I have spent my own money on their stuff, and it wasn't a waste. But it also didn't impress me especially.
 
UPP batteries are a mixed bag of tricks that you got to figure out the tricks before and during ordering.
Ask for a BMS that has cell balancing feature not all their bmss have cell balancing.
I would want a Bluetooth BMS so I could see my individual cells does upp have this option ?
Sometimes you have to ask all the questions and demand. What are the four pins for and what are the five pins for ? Ask these questions the supplier should be able to answer and could you let us know the answer if you're going to ask the questions of UPP.
Sounds like a damn rap song. Yo oh get down with UPP
Doc gets it down with UPP. Out
There's a guy who sells batteries out of LA in the used for sale section in endless-spere. They're inexpensive and they sound too good to be true but he lives in LA and he's been selling here for a little while but if he's in La you can always go over there and punch him in the nose.

Where do you live
 
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That would be this guy for used batteries.

endless-sphere.com

[$89 plus shipping. USA BASED] 48v 15ah 720wh 60A Li-Ion Battery, 2500 mAh cells, 13s6p configuration

Hello everyone. Here's another great deal for unused Li-Ion batteries. We have about 70 of these and we sell on other platforms as well so I expect them to be bought out pretty fast. Specs below. Condition: New, never used (batteries were stored in a warehouse since November 2022 so some...
endless-sphere.com endless-sphere.com

I also have bought used scooter packs from BatteryClearingHouse.com. When they sell brand name ones, they were very well made and worked well. You have to read the sales ad carefully. SOmetimes, all that's left is junk.
 
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Chalo said:
That's exactly my assessment of them. I have spent my own money on their stuff, and it wasn't a waste. But it also didn't impress me especially.
Click to expand...
I think they are fine if you stay within the specs of the materials used to construct the packs (not necessarily the cells or BMS). Both of my triangle packs have 12 gauge conductors. Based on that alone, I wouldn't run the pack continuously above 20A. On the other hand, I have no problem with pulling peak current up to the capability of the cells used in the pack. That works for me, because I seldom run high current continuously, but do run high peak currents. I doubt that the discharge conductors are the only bottleneck, and sure that probably carries through to the (nickel?) strips used to construct the pack. I've never felt the packs get warm. but that probably isn't the best test.
 
Doc it's was hard to post his add. Because when he first started up I tried to buy a bat batteries from him and he was ready then he wasn't ready then he disappeared kind of then he reappeared a month and a half later but he's La bass and he gave me the address but I have too many batteries sitting around that aren't in use so I just didn't try them.

Either that battery or the other battery he has for 129 has a 60 amp BMS I don't know if those cells in his combination can do 60 amps. Or ???
Those packs would have be Real Samsung 25r cells.
OR 13x6 =78
89÷78= 1.14 per cell built in a pack and the price of nickel labor BMS and wires it's hard to make sense at that price. I would buy one just to run it at 2500 watts or 3,000 w and see what happens.
I should get it and test it I got a motor and controller for that. I love my A123 20ah I hammered that thing every time I got on it and I never had any problems with that pack for 8 years no BMS didn't need it the cells are of such high quality.

And I think Samsung 25r cells or of high quality for your purpose there are great sale I'd have to cut that pack open and see what's inside.
 
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I have pretty much settled on this battery from UPP's Amazon store: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09MCW6WPJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1RAY93OUH65CI&th=1

A few of the reasons are: (1) It uses LG LG 21700 cells. (2) At 19.2Ah, it is slightly larger than my current 17.5Ah battery. (3) It is only slightly heavier than my 17.5Ah battery. (4) it uses the same mounting bracket as my 17.5Ah battery. (5) it is the same physical site as my 17.5Ah battery.

I will be using my old 17.5Ah battery on this project and use the new 19.2Ah battery as a replacement for it on my current motorized trike.
 
I don't see any mention of balancing function for the BMS on that page, I wouldn't recommend it. It takes a matter of cents to populate those resistor pads on the PCB. It really sucks they pull that on people when safety and product longevity are on the line.
 
I would definitely not buy a pack from them based on these reports.

The battery that costs $150 more shipped that has top notch construction quality is going to last you longer and have way less problems than this, some which are dangerous such as flaky wires and not balancing the pack/matching cells properly.

1705546214448.png

1705546372264.png
 
I guess there is no such thing as a decent quality moderately priced battery. I may have to rethink even doing this project.
 
E-HP said:
Seems the second guy was abusing his battery. The third guy killed his battery by not using it/ maintaining it during long periods of non use.
Click to expand...

I thought it the moment I read them. There's are lots of ways for a battery pack to die, but normal regular use is pretty low on the list.

Yesterday I reestablished electrical connections in an oldish Hebb e-bike that had been sodomized into inoperability by an apparently insane person who had gone completely wire nuts on it. But once continuity returned to the battery, it seemed just fine. That's good luck, and probably also a good BMS.
 
E-HP said:
Seems the second guy was abusing his battery. The third guy killed his battery by not using it/ maintaining it during long periods of non use.
Click to expand...

You're probably right... these consumers are probably ill educated about batteries and therefore poor caretakers of them.
..so consider the source..

OP.. check the comments on this thread on UPP battery construction. It's recent.
upp battery bared

Overall theme... it is the bare minimum quality and a lot of aspects are flaky.
The most concerning to me is that they rattle around and have poor protection... considering that physical trauma can make a battery ignite.. i can't recommend a battery like this at all.

I was broke as hell when i started this hobby so i started with the route chalo suggested - a used battery or one i built myself.
 
rocketman58 said:
I guess there is no such thing as a decent quality moderately priced battery. I may have to rethink even doing this project.
Click to expand...
Depends on how one defines "decent quality moderately priced battery". In that EM3ev seems to be the benchmark for quality - then UPP may pale in comparison by those that justify the cost of an EM3ev battery for their riding enjoyment. They can justify an EM3ev as one of the best, if not the best ebike battery based on its quality components, 1st Class fabrication and warranty support.
rocketman58 said:
I have pretty much settled on this battery from UPP's Amazon store: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09MCW6WPJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1RAY93OUH65CI&th=1.
Click to expand...
I would consider your above choice as "decently quality moderately priced" ($374) 48V 20Ah with LG 4800mAh cells, nickel plated bus bars. BMS battery protection features, but no cell balancing feature ... which possibly isn't needed when using name brand A-grade cells and non-abusive riding - limited riding at maximum continuous discharge rating.

This UPP 48V 30Ah has a so-called Smart BMS for cell balancing (uses Samsung 21700 cells) - $459 includes charger

This UPP 48V 20AH - BMS has protective as well as balancing feature (uses Samsung 21700 cells) - $399 includes charger

IMO the above 48V 20AH UPP is moderately "decent"... BUT others may differ when they consider UPP batteries at best as "borderline decent" based on their disappointing UPP experience compared to their EM3ev satisfaction: Superior Battery Fabrication and Overall Quality Control.
 
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Off topic, but 21700 50E batteries are the worst cold weather performers in a decade of Minnesota winter riding. Hell 22P packs perform better. BTW I rode every day through the last below zero weather and snow storm.
 
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