The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

[john61ct]

To avoid large current flows between the batteries if you charge them in parallel, you first plug-in every battery alone, note the voltage on the Satiator screen, plug in the battery with the lowest voltage first (usually its not more than 0.1-0.3V* difference in resting voltage between the batteries), start charging and plug-in the other batteries when the charging voltage reaches their respective resting voltages.

*if the voltage difference between the batteries is higher than 0.3V, I'll usually charge them separately

0.1V **per cell** is a good guideline for a safe delta

so a 1.3V difference should be OK for a 48V pack

 

[amberwolf]

0.1V per cell is a good guideline

so 1.3V difference should be OK for a 48V pack

er...

that's not what was stated.

please reread it:

To avoid large current flows between the batteries if you charge them in parallel, you first plug-in every battery alone, note the voltage on the Satiator screen, plug in the battery with the lowest voltage first (usually its not more than 0.1-0.3V* difference in resting voltage between the batteries), start charging and plug-in the other batteries when the charging voltage reaches their respective resting voltages.

*if the voltage difference between the batteries is higher than 0.3V, I'll usually charge them separately

 

[john61ct]

I was not trying to rephrase that previous assertion, but contributing a different one.

4S packs and 14S packs will not have the same delta criteria for when it is safe to parallel.

 

[amberwolf]

he's not using 4s packs.

 

[john61ct]

Who? I was not addressing anyone in particular, nor referencing any particular group count.

I updated the post to clarify the text I was responding to.

Please let me know if you think differently or if I did something wrong

 

[amberwolf]

when you post something immediately after another post by someone, it is expected / assumed that your post, barring a note to the contrary, directly applies to the post immediately prior to it, especially if the information/etc in that post is about the same information as the prior post.


if you don't want to confuse people, and/or have others post corrections, you need to make your posts independent / clear that they are just a simple statement or separate question, etc.


if you don't make it clear that your post has nothing to do with whatever was posted prior to it, it will be expected and assumed that it is directly related. that is generally the expectation of threads and topics: that the next thing follows upon the previous, and that stuff that is not on that topic either won't be posted in that thread or topic but instead will be in it's own, or it will be stated that it is now something completely different.


my own replies to your post makes the assumption that you are replying to the post prior to yours, because your post didnt' say otherwise.

my reply saying "he's not using 4s packs" is a direct reply to your post that appears to refer to marc s's post, that states he is using 10s packs, thus "he's not using 4s packs", because your post says "4S packs and 14S packs will not have the same delta criteria for when it is safe to parallel."

i said it because your statement, after your previous post of "0.1V per cell is a good guideline so 1.3V difference should be OK for a 48V pack" implies you're talking about a 13s pack, which means your next post of "4S packs and 14S packs will not have the same delta criteria for when it is safe to parallel." appears to be comparing your statement about a 13s pack (which is close to a 14s pack) to marc s's packs, but they are neither 14s nor 13s nor 4s, but 10s, and i wanted to make sure you understood what he was using, because you had not yet made it clear that your statements were completely disconnected from everything that had been previously discussed in the thread.


hopefully this makes things more clear. if not, i can explain in more detail.

 

[john61ct]

I was responding to that as just an example with a now-generalized guideline,

that can be applied to **any** pack, the specific 4S 13S 20S being irrelevant,

which was my main point.

In order to emphasize that point, I **deliberately** did **not** give advice on any pack voltage currently under discussion

since obviously you would have to be subnormal to not be able to multiply your own cell/group count times 0.1V

Sorry if that was not stated clearly enough.

 

[amberwolf]

below i have requoted you and marc s., and am explaining the difference between what he posted, and what you posted, so that you understand that what he is saying is *not* what you are saying, in case you do not already understand it.

what marc s is talking about is *battery* voltage difference, of a 10s battery, that only 0.1-0.3v difference between the *entire battery* voltage is what he allows.

what you are talking about is *per-cell* voltage difference, of 0.1v per cell. that's completely different reference frame, so if you are taking his point and building on it, then you are misinterpreting what he is saying.

if you are instead saying that it is instead ok to have a much much higher voltage difference (ten times higher!) between packs to charge them, then that's a different thing entirely, but is not clear from your post which one is the case.

To avoid large current flows between the batteries if you charge them in parallel, you first plug-in every battery alone, note the voltage on the Satiator screen, plug in the battery with the lowest voltage first (usually its not more than 0.1-0.3V* difference in resting voltage between the batteries), start charging and plug-in the other batteries when the charging voltage reaches their respective resting voltages.

*if the voltage difference between the batteries is higher than 0.3V, I'll usually charge them separately

0.1V **per cell** is a good guideline for a safe delta

so a 1.3V difference should be OK for a 48V pack

 

[amberwolf]

I was responding to that as just an example with a now-generalized guideline,

that can be applied to **any** pack, the specific 4S 13S 20S being irrelevant,

which was my main point.

In order to emphasize that point, I **deliberately** did **not** give advice on any pack voltage currently under discussion

since obviously you would have to be subnormal to not be able to multiply your own cell/group count times 0.1V

Sorry if that was not stated clearly enough.

it wasn't clear; if you had stated that you were making a new guideline of your own, rather than simply refuting what he had said (about his specific case) with your own different way of doing things (which is what it appears you were doing), then it would be clear.

unfortunatley making a point by leaving out information or not referencing something doesn't really work very well; it simply means information wasnt' there. makes it hard to guess what the point of a post is when it's like that.

 

[john61ct]

Again, I personally think what I wrote is perfectly clear even in just the first sentence all by itself without reference to anything else at all.

The second sentence given as a example calculation makes it even more crystally clear.

And I'll apologize (second time) for my brevity to those that didn't grok it.

Can we just let it lie now?

Of course you can do as you like, but for me

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Otm4RusESNU

 

[amberwolf]

some analysis of the two different voltage level differences presented above:


for john61ct's method: if there is 1.3v difference between two 13s (48v) packs, then depending on their state of charge and internal resistance, you could have a significant current flowing between them when you connect them together.

let's say that you have relatively high resistance cells, so each pack has a total internal resistance of 200milliohm.

volts / ohms = amps

1.3v / 0.2ohms = 6.5a

that's not terribly high, but it's higher than i'd generally want to have currents i don't "know about" flowing...meaning, currents i didnt' intend to have in the circuit. (the only current i "intend" to have is the charger current flowing from the charger into the two batteries).

also, if the packs' charging currents are only supposed to be 2a, you're now charging the low pack at more than three times the current it's intended to be charged at. it wont' be taht way for long, so it probably wont' affect it any more than brief regen would on a bike, but it's something to consider.

some other rough calculations. if you are doing this with packs that have indepedent charge and discharge ports, then you will have 6.5a flowing backwards thru the charge port of the higher voltage pack. this means it's fets will be acting as diodes, and have voltage drop across them, that could be up to 0.7v or more dependign on the fets. let's assume it's 0.7v. volts * amps = watts. 0.7v * 6.5a = 4.55w. that's not too bad, but it's 4.55w of heat being generated in the charge fets that has to be dissipated, and those are usually shrinkwrapped into the pack with the cells, so that's where the heat will go. not a problem as long as the cells aren't already hot for whatever reason.

a secondary potential issue: if the charger's current is say, 4a, is normally divided between the two packs, it wont' be in this case. more of it will go to the lower pack, at least until it's charge state has begun to match that of the higher voltage pack. again, it shouldn't last very long, but the increase is there, and if its' more than that pack was designed to charge at, and it lasts long enough, it'll age that pack faster, especially if you do this a lot.


now, if you have really low resistance packs, like rc lipo or something like my eig packs, they may be a tenth of the resistance of the previous example...which means currrents ten times as high, and power dissipation proportionally higher as well.

that's where you could begin to have potentially serious problems with relatively high voltage differences between packs being connected in parallel.

as an example, my eig pack on the trike is about a fifth of the above example, 35-38 milliohms. let's say it's 35.

1.3v / 0.035ohms = 37a ! that's pretty high. the power dissipation outward (backwards) thru independent charge port fets would be (assuming 0.7v drop) 0.7v * 37a = 25.9w. small soldering irons concentrate less heat into a small area to melt solder; if the available heat dissipation in the fet area is insufficient, this could be enough to melt the solder on the charge fets if the heat builds up long enough. hot enough long enough and it can also be enough to damage the fets themselves (may not make them fail outright, just not act like they used to).


if these are large-capacity packs (which will also have lower resistance because of more parallel cells), then the higher currents will go on for longer periods.



for marc s's method:

if there is 0.1v difference between two 10s (36v) packs, and they are even the low resistance eig packs i have: 0.1v / 0.035 = 2.9a. that's quite significantly less than a 1.3v difference between packs will create. power dissipation in a reverse current flow thru a charge fet shouldn't even happen if it's a 0.7v drop, with a 0.1v pack difference, but if it did, it'd still only be 0.7v * 2.9a = 2w. that's considerably less than with the 1.3v pack difference.



whether any of the above is relevant to a specific pack depends on that pack's design...but 0.1v pack difference is quite a lot lower than 1.3v difference, for both current flow and power dissipation, and the impacts of those on pack and bms lifespan could be significant depending on the pack design and components.

 

[xtinctionRebeller]

I think backward compatibility of OLD batteries types is not a needed feature, most people who will buy this will want the latest battery chemistry not SLA or NICD which you can't even buy easily.

It's quite rare that a modern bicycle battery does not include a charger. I think it would be short-sighted to make a high-end 3rd party aftermarket charger like this and then neglect to broaden the versatility as it evolves. These are some useful functions that the Cycle Satiator could potentially evolve into supporting:

• charging power tool batteries, perhaps some of which are ni-mh. Bicycle batteries are expensive and often people have power tool batteries on-hand. There's no reason a power tool battery can't drive an e-bike PAS. See this table to see the price comparison. Those who don't have power tool batteries on-hand might still opt to buy them (lower price & longer warranty) -- but note that they don't come with chargers (so they'll need one). Note as well that if a builder opts to wire several power tool batteries in series or parallel and toss them in a bag, it'd be a hassle to disassemble to recharge them on their factory chargers. The Cycle Satiator could lift that burden.
• powering the motor directly. If the Cycle Satiator could function as a simple power supply, it would eliminate the need for a battery when building/testing/troubleshooting motors and sensors on a workshop bench. E.g. to do things like that in this video.
• charging laptop batteries would be useful. I think the Cycle Satiator goes as low as 24v, which just misses the laptop range (roughly 18-20v). Someone with a 20v laptop and a 52v e-bike would have to buy two units because no single model covers that range.
• powering the laptop directly (in a power supply mode), and the possibility of using either an A/C power source or a bicycle battery as a power source. E.g. you cycle to somewhere remotely to do some work on the laptop. If your laptop runs out of juice it'd be nice to have the device work as a d/c to d/c converter.

And generally, how big is the market for a high-end charger for $300 that does the job of the cheap included chargers? People want some extra versatility for $300.

BTW, I hate mega threads. I read like ~6 of the 31 pages of this thread. If I duplicated something I apologize. Perhaps this thread should be broken into smaller manageable threads, e.g.:

• Cycle Satiator - announcements, future developments
• Cycle Satiator - support and troubleshooting
• Cycle Satiator - enhancement requests
• Cycle Satiator - pre-sales questions
• Cycle Satiator - hacks

 

[amberwolf]

[*] charging power tool batteries, perhaps some of which are ni-mh. Bicycle batteries are expensive and often people have power tool batteries on-hand. There's no reason a power tool battery can't drive an e-bike PAS.

(not part of your point, but the ebike doesn't have to be a pas, or even a low-power system.)

there's quite a few "powertool pack" builds here on es over the years. there's even one just posted today over on the "your creation's before and after pics" thread.

Note as well that if a builder opts to wire several power tool batteries in series or parallel and toss them in a bag, it'd be a hassle to disassemble to recharge them on their factory chargers. The Cycle Satiator could lift that burden.

as long as the packs allow charging from a source other than the factory charger, yes. some packs might have a built in bms that will only accept a charge from something it can communicate with; they might also have no built-in way to turn off charging when one cell reaches full, to do balancing, and instead have to tell the charger to stop for a bit while the bms does it's thing.

but for the sake of this, we'll assume they don't, and that it is electrically safe to series the charge ports just like the discharge ports. if true, the cs can already do this, just like any other battery pack--the user just has to wire up their pack setup for this (just like any other pack built of modules).

[*] powering the motor directly. If the Cycle Satiator could function as a simple power supply, it would eliminate the need for a battery when building/testing/troubleshooting motors and sensors on a workshop bench.

it can already do this, just use "force start" (holding the bottom button, iirc).

however...many motor systems may have surge currents even with no load that far exceed what the cs can handle, especially when troubleshooting a problem like mismatched halls/phases, or other startup problems that can cause very high initial current. 8a is the limit for the most common cs, and it's even less (5a?) for the high voltage version.

but it does indeed work for some testing of a system without a battery.

[*] charging laptop batteries would be useful. I think the Cycle Satiator goes as low as 24v, which just misses the laptop range (roughly 18-20v). Someone with a 20v laptop and a 52v e-bike would have to buy two units because no single model covers that range.

dunno which cs you are referring to.

mine (the 4808, first model they came out with, and still the most common one) will charge a 12v car battery (at 14.4v, but it will go as low as 12v) (albeit not very fast, i've helped friends stuck somewhere by doing that).

i most commonly use it to charge my 4s2p 16.4v full 40ah nmc lighting pack at 8a.

then i can just change to the preset for charging my 14s2p 57.8v full 40ah at 8ah, and plug it into that, to charge the trike's traction battery.

i have presets for a number of other batteries around here, both ebike and other stuff, and have made adapters for the xlr plug for some, for the rest i use the xlr-pp45 adapter it came with and either put pp45s on the device or made an adapter for the pp45s to the device's port.


however---the laptop batteries are another instance of something that often cannot be charged without having it connected to the (working) laptop battery connector, as the bms in those also communicates with the charging circuitry in the laptop.

of course you can bypass the bms protections and charge the cells, but that's not the same thing, and the typical user isn't going to want to do that; it may involve cutting open the pack to create access to internal wiring.

if you mean simply using the cs to replace the original laptop power supply brick, then you can easily do this simply by using the "force start" mode, after you have created a profile that will support that laptop's input requirements.

[*] powering the laptop directly (in a power supply mode),

this can already be done, as noted previously, wiht the "force start" mode.

and the possibility of using either an A/C power source or a bicycle battery as a power source. E.g. you cycle to somewhere remotely to do some work on the laptop. If your laptop runs out of juice it'd be nice to have the device work as a d/c to d/c converter.

it can, as long as you have the minimum input voltage required for it, about 90vdc according to justin_le here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60169&p=899593

most smps psus will operate on dc input as long as it is sufficient to power the input stage and cause it to oscillate, etc. i use many "wallwart" ac adapters as dc-dcs on ebike projects and the like; they usually require about 50-60vdc to turn on, for those marked as 100vac minimum. some of them need 90vdc or more to turn on, though they will often then run on a much lower voltage, sometimes as low as 50-60vdc (usually not).

keep in mind that when running the input on a dc voltage rather than ac, it will have current flowing only thru half of the input rectifier. if it's all one unit, vs individual diodes, it is unlikely to be an issue as power dissipation will still be nearly the same for the device. but if it uses individual diodes then their packages may be too small to dissipate twice the power each that they normally would, for the two that will be passing all the current (while the other pair is idle).

some of them won't work on dc at all, but they usually have something special about the way they startup that requires the ac portion of the input, like the xbox 360 psu.

And generally, how big is the market for a high-end charger for $300 that does the job of the cheap included chargers? People want some extra versatility for $300.

it has that versatility, as noted above.

also, it may replace more than $300 worth of chargers if you have a bunch of different packs that require different charge voltages and/or charge rates.

 

[xtinctionRebeller]

mine (the 4808, first model they came out with, and still the most common one) will charge a 12v car battery (at 14.4v, but it will go as low as 12v) (albeit not very fast, i've helped friends stuck somewhere by doing that).

i most commonly use it to charge my 4s2p 16.4v full 40ah nmc lighting pack at 8a.

then i can just change to the preset for charging my 14s2p 57.8v full 40ah at 8ah, and plug it into that, to charge the trike's traction battery.

I'm surprised it's possible it's possible to charge a 57.8v battery with that charger, because I watched some of the videos and I recall Justin saying that the CS can't charge batteries that are higher in voltage than the max range of the CS model. So the model that goes as low as 12v has an ceiling of 24 or 36v.. or so I thought.

I appreciate all the information.. it was quite helpful. Particularly the BMS tip, which now has me thinking it's perhaps not worth it to complicate the system with power tool batteries. I don't think power tool batteries state in the ads whether it needs to talk to the charger. OTOH, the communication is probably a good thing (presumably so the charger doesn't have to guess whether the battery is overheating). So this raises the question as to whether any bike batteries do BMS and would the CS handle it?

 

[amberwolf]

I'm surprised it's possible it's possible to charge a 57.8v battery with that charger, because I watched some of the videos and I recall Justin saying that the CS can't charge batteries that are higher in voltage than the max range of the CS model.

That is correct. (the part of your quote i bolded)

No charger or PSU can charge something higher in voltage than itself (without external DC-DC hardware). but the 4808 model is limited to 63v, so it works easily on a 57.8v battery (or any typical "52v" 14s lithium-ion battery, or "48v" 16s lifepo4 battery, both of which charge to around 58v).

So the model that goes as low as 12v has an ceiling of 24 or 36v.. or so I thought.

If you look at the product / info pages for them, there is a specifications section that shows the min and max voltages for the 4808 and 7205 models. It doesn't list the 2415 for some reason. (a chart further up lists all three but only shows the max)
https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-satiator.html

I don't think power tool batteries state in the ads whether it needs to talk to the charger.

Some require communication, some don't. If you poke around the forum threads on powertool packs you can see whatever has been found out by those that have used the various brands and models. They're not all covered, I'm sure, but at least you can read about those that have been.

FWIW, some of the packs are already at ebike voltages, and so don't have to be seriesed. But they're usually very small capacities, a few Ah at most, so paralleling them is necessary for higher capacity needs. Whether this affects the charging routine required probably depends on the packs' designs.

So this raises the question as to whether any bike batteries do BMS and would the CS handle it?

I don't understand the question(s). But perhaps this will answer anyway:

Almost all ebike batteries (commercially available non-DIY ones) have a BMS of one type or another. Some have a single port for charge and discharge, and some have separate ports.

Some of the ones in various OEM ebikes (not kits you put on a regular bike) will only work with that OEM ebike itself (and the OEM ebike will only work with that OEM battery), but the charger itself (other than it's connector) often, maybe even usually, does not actually communicate with the battery, it just provides the charging voltage and current.

But all of the separately-available prebuilt batteries, BMS or not, simply accept a voltage and current input from any CC/CV PSU or charger that is within the correct voltage and current range for that specific pack.

So in both cases, the CS should be able to charge them all.



Now, the interesting thing about the CS is that it actually *could* communicate with some of the batteries that need that, if it knew how; it has the hardware for anything with a LIN singlewire serial bus. But it's firmware does not know how to talk or listen to the batteries, because the communications protocols of all the batteries are proprietary, so Grin Tech doesnt' have a way to add this to the code.

If you had batteries you really wanted to do this with, that used a single-wire serial protocol compatible with the LINbus hardware, and you decoded the protocols and data the battery and charger in question, you could probably pay Grin to write custom firmware for the CS to do it using that information. But it would only work on that model of that brand of battery, most likely.

 

[john61ct]

Amazing patience and diligence on display there!

I'm surprised it's possible it's possible to charge a 57.8v battery with that charger, because I watched some of the videos

Since detailed references and data sheets are readily available for 99% of such devices, all you need do is read them.

> the CS can't charge batteries that are higher in voltage than the max range of the CS model.

Should be self-evident.

> the question as to whether any bike batteries do BMS and would the CS handle it

@xtinctionRebeller please don't take this wrong

but it really would be a good idea for you to invest a fair bit of time in actually reading past threads, googling on these topics, IOW doing your own research to raise your level of knowledge.

Right now you are like a new visitor to a library, who thinks its function is to supply you with 1:1 time with the librarians to tutor you, rather than making books available for you to learn from.

 

[xtinctionRebeller]

but the 4808 model is limited to 63v, so it works easily on a 57.8v battery (or any typical "52v" 14s lithium-ion battery, or "48v" 16s lifepo4 battery, both of which charge to around 58v).

This is what I saw in the video (which is on the page you linked):


None of those models have a range that includes both 12v and 52v. 12v is below the 24v floor of the 4808 and 52v is above the ceiling of the 4808. There is also a row showing "Typical Batteries" on one of the tables, which doesn't quite match the ranges in the video.

On the same page it says "Output Range 4808 12-63V, 0-8A, 0-360 W". So when the spec is inconsistent with the video (in fact several videos), it's hard to know what to trust. It somewhat implies that batteries have a more narrow range of voltage than the power supply mode. I wouldn't generally bet $300 on the hope that the more favorable spec is also the correct spec. But since you've stated that the raw text spec matches your experience, I'll consider it good enough to trust moreso than the specs in the videos.

I don't understand the question(s). But perhaps this will answer anyway:...

I appreciate your reply. You answered it quite well. In fact it's as if you were reading my mind when detailing the proprietary protocols, because I also had that question but didn't start investigating it yet.

I'm surprised it's possible it's possible to charge a 57.8v battery with that charger, because I watched some of the videos

Since detailed references and data sheets are readily available for 99% of such devices, all you need do is read them.

> the CS can't charge batteries that are higher in voltage than the max range of the CS model.

Should be self-evident.

No, not exactly. Power supplies and chargers have a range by which they are effecient, which is not the same thing as the range that they are capable of functioning. When Justin talks in the video, he confirms this. He says two models may charge the same battery, but there's a disadvantage for the higher voltage one b/c it's less efficient and fewer amps.

So the line is blurred between the capability range and the efficiency range -- and the specs seem to be bluring that line.

but it really would be a good idea for you to invest a fair bit of time in actually reading past threads, googling on these topics, IOW doing your own research to raise your level of knowledge.

I spotted a discrepency between what I see in the specs, and amberwolf's experience. Amberwolf is the best person to clear that up.

Right now you are like a new visitor to a library, who thinks its function is to supply you with 1:1 time with the librarians to tutor you, rather than making books available for you to learn from.

If you're going to be the librarian who tells visitors "the book you need may be in this library - have a look" and walk away, it's best if you step aside and let someone else be the librarian. Visitors don't need to be spoon-fed (shown the book and page number), but you should be able to help people learn how to comprehend information or how to go about finding what they're after. When a discrepency between specs and reality emerges, the answer is not to simply look at the specs.

That said, you should also realize that forums are in fact a good source of information -- sometimes even better than specs when the specs are vague or don't give the complete story or cease to be public. Specs sometimes have safety factors built in, because the manufacturer doesn't want their product used by people living on the edge. I've searched for answers before and arrived at a thread where someone had asked the same question I was searching for, the responses of which were "go use Google", when in fact it was a search engine that brought myself and others to that thread. Please do your part in not letting that sort of cycle proliferate.

 

[john61ct]

Efficiency is irrelevant when the source is mains power.

You find out what the output voltage range is for a given charge source device by looking at the data sheet or contact the vendor.

Low end voltages like nominal 12V are cheap as chips, best to get something like Satiator in the highest voltage available if you think you need that.

There are quality power supplies like Sorensen that go from zero up to their max V, but the higher that is the lower the amps output in a given price range.

Less wide-ranging units like Mean Well HLG are so much cheaper, often better to just buy multiple units to cover your needs.

But these are PSUs, not actual chargers, with automatic cycle termination built in.

Most have only a 10-20% range of adjustability, if that, anything more in a **charger** is just flat-out amazing.

 

[john61ct]

OK, I see that indeed Grin has not fully and clearly documented the min/max voltages for the three models.

All are limited to 360W, overrides the max current spec

Edit, this is misleading, see below for update

#2415 "12-24V" max output 36V @15A

#4808 "24V-52V" output range 24-63V @8A (manual states 12-63V)

#7205 "36V-84V" outputs 36-103V (manual states 20-103V), 4-5A

 

[amberwolf]

But since you've stated that the raw text spec matches your experience, I'll consider it good enough to trust moreso than the specs in the videos.

I've never watched those videos***, but I've got the 4808 version, with the latest firmware presently available, and it most definitely does what the printed specifications say. For myself, I generally trust printed specifications over what someone says in a video (where they may make mistakes reading a script or not even using a script, and then not bothering to fix the mistake if they even notice it. mistakes may also happen in print, but they usually get corrected because questions get asked at some point over the years, and it's very easy to change a print mistake, not so easy to rerecord a video).

Unless they have changed the hardware since they built mine (nearly seven years ago), the new 4808s should do the same stuff.

You can also ask Grin Tech directly about this sort of stuff, to get the best answers, about the current hardware. Might take longer than usual for an answer since AFAIK they're just about all working from home right now, rather than their shop, according to their main page.




*** I generally don't have time to wait for people to get around to the info I need in one, when I can generally find and read the necessary data in a few seconds when it's in print, so I don't watch videos like that very often. (though I do frequently leave videos like the Royal Institution science stuff, and the World Science Festival, and other similar things, running in the background while I'm doing other things, to pickup and learn a few things with the "side" of my mind, if that makes sense.)

 

[xtinctionRebeller]

In this case it wouldn't matter if you ignore the specs in the video and rely on the text specs, because the text specs are also contradictory.

• PDF brochure cover page says 20-60v
• PDF brochure last page says 24-60v
• PNG brochure says 24-60v
• the 1st table says 24-52v with a max 63v (implying that the ceiling of the range is less than the max, which further suggests 63 is a peak rather than a nominal):
• the 2nd table says 12-63v:
• one video shows 24-48v:

Two or three videos give the more narrow range. Normally it would be harder to trust the 12-63v spec because it's largely outnumbered making it more likely to be a typo, and also because it's presented in a more raw detailed context with no mention of batteries, suggesting that there's a broader envelope for devices other than batteries (while some of the more narrow ranges mention batteries). It could be interpreted as a more theoretical range, as sometimes specs are theoretical (e.g. like the speed of an analog 57.6 baud modem which will never have perfect laboratory conditions). What they say in videos and ads represent what they feel safe having customers bank on.

Anyway, since you say you've used it for 12v and 57v or thereabouts, that's good enough for me.

 

[john61ct]

Ignore the vague/broad nominal voltages like "52V", those are just broad categories, and the actual min/mid/max will depend on chemistry.

The detailed ranges for the 2/3 models I gave are the ones to ask Justin about if you can get ahold of him

 

[amberwolf]

In this case it wouldn't matter if you ignore the specs in the video and rely on the text specs, because the text specs are also contradictory.

Maybe you should point it out to them so they can fix it. (or at least explain it?)


BTW, if you want to know what you can set the various models to, get the Satiator Software Suite (assuming your system's OS supports it), and use it to create profiles for the stuff you need it to do. If it lets you create the profile, with the model you wish to use chosen in the upper right, then that model will support what the profile says. The software disallows settings that model doesn't support.

So unless there's a bug in that Suite I haven't seen yet (which is always possible), that test should tell you, without getting the hardware, whether the hardware is capable of the tasks you have for it.

 

[captain387]

I received my Satiator v7 in January 2020, it charges a 12 volt car battery.
The side of the Satiator says output - 24/36/48, the manual specifications say 12 - 63 volts.

See Justin's post in the below link on June 23 7:13pm
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60169&start=75

Hope that helps,

J

 

[NCC1941]

Here's a link to the specific post where Justin explains the Satiator's 12v capability and limitations: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60169&start=75#p911571

Edit for clarity: The linked post references the 12v capabilities and limitations of the 4808 Satiator.