tired of pads wearing, alternative disk brake setups ?

[marka-ee]

I have 180mm disc brakes on the front of my Recumbent, 26" tires. I am underwhelmed by how long the pads are lasting even though I try to use the regen braking as much as possible. Would it be possible to adapt a brake setup from a small motorbike or moped? I'd like pad area to be > the size of a nickel for my rather heavy bike. The bike eats them like tiny cookies!

 

[Chalo]

Use sintered metal pads, not semi-metallic or organic/resin pads. If they're not available for your brakes, get different brakes.

I recommend Avid BB7 brakes (which come with metallic pads) and Avid Speed Dial levers. Slick stainless cables.

The longest lasting pads I've used were EBC Gold pads. My first modern disc brakes were Hayes HMX-1, which came with organic pads. Those wore down to their backing plates in less than 20 miles of city riding, just two rides. The EBC Gold pads I replaced with lasted more than ten years.

 

[PaPaSteve]

Gekors Ceramic Disc Brake Pads for Avid BB7 are recommended by a friend who lives on a bigger hill then I do.
He claims they are long lasting.
Recently bought some along with a new disc but haven't had a minute to install yet.
$11.49 on Amazon

 

[Ianhill]

Sintered pads are the only pads for me, most have had simular experience with crappy pads digestive biscuit stuff then tryed ebc gold sintered or alike, i ended up passing the bike on to a relative with them still in there many years on they outlived the calliper itself, shimano pistons tend to crack on the cheaper single pot setups who would have thought it ?

But sintered pads work fine less squealing like a pig and stops fine more robust to ingress and dont crap themselfs when they see mud, streams and alike.

I dont use cable breaks myself no more i got a tub of avid bb stuff should pass it on to someone in uk who wants the stuff aling with a load of other stuff i dont tend to use no more horder of old parts.

 

[PaPaSteve]

Downhill mountain bikes have much larger pads.
No idea if they will match your mounting dimensions.
Or if there are any cable operated versions.

 

[Chalo]

Hydraulic brakes all eventually oil their pads, and then it doesn't matter what pads you use.

 

[PaPaSteve]

Hydraulic brakes all eventually oil their pads, and then it doesn't matter what pads you use.

Is this true of all cars, trucks, motorcycles, airplanes too ?
Or is it just a problem on bicycles ?

 

[DogDipstick]

Hydraulic brakes all eventually oil their pads, and then it doesn't matter what pads you use.

Is this true of all cars, trucks, motorcycles, airplanes too ?
Or is it just a problem on bicycles ?

I think he is just saying they all eventually need a rebuild. Reseal. New o ring, new crush washer, new hoses, new pistons, and the like. Then they work like new. Then they work fine.

Yeah everything. Happens to everything. Hydraulic systems eventually wear out. Then they leak. Then they get fixxed. Brake fluid ruins pads.. quick.

 

[PaPaSteve]

I think he is just saying they all eventually need a rebuild. Reseal. New o ring, new crush washer, new hoses, new pistons, and the like. Then they work like new. Then they work fine.

Yeah everything. Happens to everything. Hydraulic systems eventually wear out. Then they leak. Then they get fixxed. Brake fluid ruins pads.. quick.

Bicycle hydraulics are a closed system with limited fluid volume.
Should they start to leak they become non-functional in short order.

 

[Chalo]

Hydraulic brakes all eventually oil their pads, and then it doesn't matter what pads you use.

Is this true of all cars, trucks, motorcycles, airplanes too ?
Or is it just a problem on bicycles ?

Bicycles are light and cheap, and expediently engineered, and their parts are not held to any regulatory standards. Their hydraulic systems fail sooner than those on DOT vehicles. Because the parts are small, it only takes a drop or two of hydraulic fluid to contaminate the whole deal.

Every bike that comes in as a donation to the community bike shop where I work needs some amount of service-- usually a lot. But it's exceedingly rare to have one come in with hydraulic brakes that still work.

 

[PaPaSteve]

Bicycles are light and cheap, and expediently engineered, and their parts are not held to any regulatory standards. Their hydraulic systems fail sooner than those on DOT vehicles. Because the parts are small, it only takes a drop or two of hydraulic fluid to contaminate the whole deal.

Every bike that comes in as a donation to the community bike shop where I work needs some amount of service-- usually a lot. But it's exceedingly rare to have one come in with hydraulic brakes that still work.

OK ... this explains where your coming from.
From a user's perspective I see no reason to be alarmed regarding fluid leaks.

 

[Chalo]

From a user's perspective I see no reason to be alarmed regarding fluid leaks.

Alarmed? Naw. But disappointed, definitely. You pay extra for something that fails earlier, resists being repaired, requires proprietary parts and special tools. If they did anything that mechanical discs or rim brakes don't do, the tradeoffs might be worth it. But they don't do anything that more reliable brakes don't also do.

 

[Ianhill]

Depends how and where the bike is beeen riden really, urban commuter will need less servicing of brakes if cable operated specially if its kept indoors so the cables dont get wet often or pulled to hard to stretch, simple to look after few spanners even the dreaded adjustable does the trick.

Pet hate of mine is the adjusters on the levers, they always end up cross threaded and munched so the only adjustment left is in the caliper itself so i tend to wind them in all the way set the brake and never use them once the caliper has half its adjustment used id reset the cable rather than use the lever adjustment not to ruin them.

Hydraulics for me operate longer on harsh terrian where i tend to get the cables full of mud wet and still ill be pulling on them like no tomorrow dropping in down a 40ft banking etc then i may not get the time to wash the bike sometimes ill be in a rush to make it somewhere and ill just wax my chain at best and get on it for me then i can get a full year without touching them.

But to be fair i paid £240 for twin pots and the pad dwarfs a bb7 so it should work better.

 

[Ianhill]

From sources ive read unless your front fork has a thruaxle rather than a quick release the noticable difference of a four piston setup wont be seen so a bike that got a cheap fork no preload adjustment etc just stick to stock brakes.

Something like a fox 34 fork and alike you feel the stiffer front end over rutts and only then is there enough stiffness to hold the wheel true as the brake force is applied from a powerful brake setup with the thruaxle holding the wheel stiff in the fork the legs cant move independently.

Slow motion video of a bike of harsh terrian shows all kinds of flexing going on and a weak frame over that with increased stopping force on dowhill fast paced sections will soon find any weak spots.

 

[biphaeboh]

I'm tending to agree with Chalo about hydraulic brakes.
I bought a used fatbike to convert to electric for winter snow and ice riding.
The brakes were a bit problematic, so I acquired the stuff I needed to bleed them. It wasn't too difficult to do a gravity bleed, but the stopping power wasn't great. I went looking for new brake pads and did find some rather expensive ones, the braking is improved, but not as good as my Spykes would be with new pads.
There seem to be a few leaks in the system.
Should I try and fix them or just cut my losses and go to Spykes or BB7s?

 

[LewTwo]

I have always used cable actuated rim brakes. I tend to think of the rim as a large diameter disk. Of course I am not riding through mud, streams, snow or recently deposited organic fertilizer. Having said that I will likely install a cable actuated (KISS) disk brake on the front wheel of my current build (Giant Revive). Rim brakes have to be 'opened up' to allow the tire to slide through. A front disk brake makes that wheel quick and easy to remove for transport.

 

[Ianhill]

Pushrod actuating and proberly some kind of asbestos pad nothing like a 1950s setup still rolling today probs and they pressed the brake way back then.

 

[amberwolf]

I like the Avid BB7 cable-operated disc brake just fine.

The single BB7 with 200mm rotor on the front of SB Cruiser can easily lock up the wheel (max possible brake grip, though not best actual braking/control) if I just apply full single-finger pressure, at 20MPH with or without cargo, even with max cargo load of a few hundred pounds (which makes the total trike/rider/cargo mass almost half a ton, can do the same with even more weight if I'm hauling a trailer full of cargo too, but that changes the loading on the front wheel so it skids more easily than without the trailer).

I don't typically apply enough pressure on the lever to lockup the wheel because then there's no steering control, but it'll do it easily enough if I did. Using it normally without lockup heats the rotor quite a lot, far beyond "touchable" temperature (can't recall if I ever measured it, but it will cause instant burns...no I didn't *mean* to touch it :lol: )

No suspension front or rear, so all the weight transfer presses directly on the tire and then the ground instead of compressing springs first.

Takes a few months of ~25-30mile/week commutes to go thru the cheapo noname pads I found on amazon; maybe a year plus to go thru the original Avid pads (details somewhere in the SB Cruiser thread). Still on original rotor but there is noticeable wear.

At some point when I rebuild the rear frame for some other stuff around the wheels anyway, I'll add another Avid BB7 on each rear wheel, with a single dual-pull lever controlling them.





Used to use dual rim brakes for the same job; pads laster longer, rotor (rim) didn't heat up much, etc. Went with the disc because after I broke the fork in the pic below (in the only accident the trike has ever been in) the experimental replacement setup with a fatbike fork and a rear hubmotor wouldn't work with my existing rim brake setup and I didn't want to do all the mods needed to make it work. But been happy enough with the Avids to never need to change the system.

 

[PaPaSteve]

I have 180mm disc brakes on the front of my Recumbent, 26" tires. I am underwhelmed by how long the pads are lasting even though I try to use the regen braking as much as possible. Would it be possible to adapt a brake setup from a small motorbike or moped? I'd like pad area to be > the size of a nickel for my rather heavy bike. The bike eats them like tiny cookies!

So here's the engineering trade off ...
With a cable operated brake the mechanical mechanism (i.e. the piston) can only push a smallish area so then the friction pad ends up roughly matching the push area. Hence the postage stamp sized brake pad.
For more friction area a longer pad will be required meaning a larger push area is needed.
To increase the push area two pistons are used.
Hydraulics make it much easier to have an even, balanced push on the friction pads.

 

[BalorNG]

Do you guys all spend your time in cycles of 'pedal to the metal', alternating 'gas' and 'brakes' so to speak?

I'm not that avid of a commuter admittedly, but my in my about 25 or so thousand miles I've replaced brake pads like 2-3 times despite being relatively powerful and massive rider... though I did prefer metallic and semi-metallic pads myself, and don't do mud (that can quickly kill your pads). Oh, maybe 5 if you count having to replace 'oiled' pads, which is a problem indeed.

Also. my current electric LWB that with me combined dangerously approach 400lbs mark (Yea, that's more of a moped territory, but with just for a fraction of power) allows me to use regen braking (very modest, less than 20Nm) to scrub speed when cycling in the city pretty much all of the time, needing mechanical brakes only for a complete stop or panic stops.

That's a temporary setup and I expect to lose some weight myself, but I think riding style may have something more to do with brake wear as well But I do ride with bicycle-ish speeds - 25-ish mph cruising speed with about 20 mph overall, less if you count the offroad parts. I'm getting 7.5 wh/km in this arrangement, which seems pretty decent... pretty much no hills though.

 

[99t4]

Do you guys all spend your time in cycles of 'pedal to the metal', alternating 'gas' and 'brakes' so to speak?
... pretty much no hills though.

For me its the latter (actually the opposite of the latter). My area is acutely hilly. Even starting descents at near 0 mph (coasting, no power) heavy braking is required. No way around it. Regen helps some.

 

[BalorNG]

Do you guys all spend your time in cycles of 'pedal to the metal', alternating 'gas' and 'brakes' so to speak?
... pretty much no hills though.

For me its the latter (actually the opposite of the latter). My area is acutely hilly. Even starting descents at near 0 mph (coasting, no power) heavy braking is required. No way around it. Regen helps some.

Oh, yea, that does change things indeed, especially if you have hills with traffic lights at the bottom. Truly sadistic, especially *without* e-assist