Truckrun M09 vs Bafang Ultra, need advice.

[StressedOut]

I've been searching for a new middrive motor that will make me go 40mph. I've only just heard of the truckrun M09, with 240nm of torque??


Does anyone have experience working with truckrun? Is there anything I should know about either motors. I'm currently on both a TSDZ2/B.

thanks!

 

[1boris]

Trucrun has some strange way of mesuring Torque.I looked into some of the Truckrun motors before because of their high torque.But what I found out is that they have much higher torque with less current than Bafang.So I just forgot about it,fake marketing was my conclusion

 

[1boris]

The ultra for sure has good Torque

 

[dougal227]

the truckrun m09 absolutely makes mincemeat out of the bafang g510 (m620) as ive had both at same time and sold the bafang and kept the truckrun which ive upgraded the drivetrain on to a full gates cdx setup with a pinion bt1 for gates cdx belt drives that are on a full suspension ebike as compression on rear suspension is relatively fluid riding and the tensioner is vital in keeping belt drive together and so much quieter and so much quicker ive had to limit it so to keep front of bike on the deck and believe you me its a beast in sheeps clothing!! anyways i was underwhelmed by any bafang but they are bringing out the next motor to match truckruns m09 and itll fit into a g510 framework so both motors will be same really in the end if your going for the best but truckrun are cheaper and more reliable on letting you know battery power left as u go on as i had to use a cycle analyst v3 with shunt to tell me same info and also with truckrun is bluetooth and connects to my phone for satnav which is cool so it also can be tracked if goes walkies but only if bike is under power and on!! from doug and hope this helps

 

[DaDo.Bzz]

Hello.

You saying Truckrun M09 has same mounting as M620? I heard it is engineers who left Bafang, true?

What about communication protocol? Is it CAN compatible with Bafang? Can I use Bafang displays?

 

[riding_on]

Hello.

You saying Truckrun M09 has same mounting as M620? I heard it is engineers who left Bafang, true?

What about communication protocol? Is it CAN compatible with Bafang? Can I use Bafang displays?

I added a throttle to my Priority Current, which uses a Truckrun motor (I think it's an M01, but they're all so similar it's hard to tell because Priority rebranded it). I used a throttle and display cable for a Bafang motor, but it wasn't plug-and-play: I had to strip the cables and solder the individual wires together because the pinouts don't match.

Hopefully that's enough information to answer your question. As an aside, the only complaint I have about my Truckrun motor is that it isn't the M09 model. I doubt you could hit 40mph with a M09, but you might be able to. Probably mid to high 30s; I hit 28mph on flat pavement with their M01, which is rated at 140Nm.

 

[uhmwpolyethylene]

the truckrun m09 absolutely makes mincemeat out of the bafang g510 (m620) as ive had both at same time and sold the bafang and kept the truckrun which ive upgraded the drivetrain on to a full gates cdx setup with a pinion bt1 for gates cdx belt drives that are on a full suspension ebike as compression on rear suspension is relatively fluid riding and the tensioner is vital in keeping belt drive together and so much quieter and so much quicker ive had to limit it so to keep front of bike on the deck and believe you me its a beast in sheeps clothing!! anyways i was underwhelmed by any bafang but they are bringing out the next motor to match truckruns m09 and itll fit into a g510 framework so both motors will be same really in the end if your going for the best but truckrun are cheaper and more reliable on letting you know battery power left as u go on as i had to use a cycle analyst v3 with shunt to tell me same info and also with truckrun is bluetooth and connects to my phone for satnav which is cool so it also can be tracked if goes walkies but only if bike is under power and on!! from doug and hope this helps

Is the truck run stamped? I need something "nominally" 750 with super torque, could I buy the 1200 and claim it's the 750 or are they all individually marked, how the reliability vs 02, BBSHD or uktra, can truck run be mounted on anything

 

[dougal227]

Is the truck run stamped? I need something "nominally" 750 with super torque, could I buy the 1200 and claim it's the 750 or are they all individually marked, how the reliability vs 02, BBSHD or uktra, can truck run be mounted on anything

its not stamped for what i can see and tbh ill never go for bafang again as truckrun are taking off and people love them as ive used and tried both 1000 and 1200 watt versions and the 1000 watt version is like 200 nm torque compared to 240 nm on the 1200 watt motor and big motor and very heavy duty and dont get hot hammering the crap out of it as it handles everything thrown at it including the kitchen sink so to speak and if you do go for this kit mine is uart and can bus but ill let you do your homework but truckrun are ahead of the curve and my new build im using a 4leaf frame that is compatible with truckrun m09 1200 watt and can take a limit of 48v 17.5 amp hour battery so the 4 leaf frame and motor aswell as battery and all carbon fibre handlebars that has stem built into it to compliment this kit i have boost version of fromnt specialised 35 front shocks and dnm with lockout on rear shock all hydraulic brakes with the right front normal 8 gear selector by wire and the brake built into same lever housing is hydraulic so will save space and all matching screws and rotors aswell as top of range basically everything was best way to spend £2700 -£3000 and the ebike will be my dream ebike and all will be carbon fibre except from front fork /shocks and also will need a short enough seatpost as not to damage carbon fibre innerds as a proper sharp angle in seatpost outerframe so no typical seatdropper can be utilised really unless your tall enough that is but im lucky im a short arse lol also any question let me know and ill do my best to give you a good answer thatll help in building your own ebike like me!! where u based? cos if in uk near me plymouth devon english ill be able to help u out or vice versa on ifo or parts or swaps or anything to be honest as im always fair as im not materialistic in any way to be honest and dont do it to show off as im all about low key and NOT getting noticed ! also i might have a ebike for sale with same motor and ali all suspension frame all built just waiting on wiring harness to turn up to test it as i had a short and fried the self destruct in the harness that protects the motor and mainly the motor and battery so after that its got everythings been serviced and as soon as i get a harness and working do u want me to let you know!? stay safe and regards from bugsy

 

[calab]

Fake marketing is putting it lightly.

 

[weldinpatt]

Trucrun has some strange way of mesuring Torque.I looked into some of the Truckrun motors before because of their high torque.But what I found out is that they have much higher torque with less current than Bafang.So I just forgot about it,fake marketing was my conclusion

No you’re in error. My M05 has been and is absolutely fantastic 500W. I since received a new BBSHD, and my word am I disappointed with the 1000W Bafang. I’ve coupled the Truckrun, to an X-RD3. And I believe it’s the personification of, the most ideal ‘e bike’ motor I’ve tried. The M05 is so sweat and so silent too. Three years of no problems it’s like the first day I rode it.

 

[1boris]

No you’re in error. My M05 has been and is absolutely fantastic 500W. I since received a new BBSHD, and my word am I disappointed with the 1000W Bafang. I’ve coupled the Truckrun, to an X-RD3. And I believe it’s the personification of, the most ideal ‘e bike’ motor I’ve tried. The M05 is so sweat and so silent too. Three years of no problems it’s like the first day I rode it.

Well they told me their 250w motor had 120nm of torque.when I asked about the controller they told me it was 36volt 14a controller.if you know anything about ebikes you see what's wrong here

 

[Blake2020]

Yo

Fake marketing is putting it lightly.

You own one and can vouch for this? Looks like you’ve got no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[weldinpatt]

Yes I am new to this subject. 1Boris, yes 120Nm sounds a lot. 36 x 14 = 504, is this what you mean?
I have the 500W version according to my Dpc18, it peeks at about 900W. They say as much as 145Nm, I don’t know. What I do know is connected to an X-RD3 I climb all Snowdonia hills and still cruise at 32kmph. It’s the best I’ve had so far 3 years and no problems. I rate mine highly. Smaller and more compact I think it suits the BB, better than a BBSHD, which juts out to the left too much.
My BBSHD, though more powerful, the same tranquility of ride, cannot be reached.
The M05,isn’t some kind of Bafang copy, or inferior clone. Though the M05, looks similar to the BBSHD, in actual fact the two are indeed very different animals.
Bafang isn’t exactly the most honest company, with it’s self proclaimed specifications, they’ve been caught telling porkies too.
Now get this a new Truckrun, M09 is claimed to max out at 245Nm, 1200-1600W.

 

[1boris]

Yes their torque rating is crazy.504 watt would be morel like 60nm.if your 500watt peaks at 900w it is same as Bafang bbs 500w which is 100nm.thats what I mean with fake marketing

 

[uhmwpolyethylene]

whats up with the UART ultra? some people were saying the early ultras were no good. can the canbus bafang be reprogrammed somehow, do you even need to, are either sold engraved at 750w, can the canbus ultra use any battery. does anyone sell complete ultra UART bikes. i found one retailer with 750w UART ultra motor but it was fat mount. is the ultra louder with steel gears. does the ULTRA actually have more torque or just torque sensing

 

[riding_on]

Yes I am new to this subject. 1Boris, yes 120Nm sounds a lot. 36 x 14 = 504, is this what you mean?
I have the 500W version according to my Dpc18, it peeks at about 900W. They say as much as 145Nm, I don’t know. What I do know is connected to an X-RD3 I climb all Snowdonia hills and still cruise at 32kmph. It’s the best I’ve had so far 3 years and no problems. I rate mine highly. Smaller and more compact I think it suits the BB, better than a BBSHD, which juts out to the left too much.
My BBSHD, though more powerful, the same tranquility of ride, cannot be reached.
The M05,isn’t some kind of Bafang copy, or inferior clone. Though the M05, looks similar to the BBSHD, in actual fact the two are indeed very different animals.
Bafang isn’t exactly the most honest company, with it’s self proclaimed specifications, they’ve been caught telling porkies too.
Now get this a new Truckrun, M09 is claimed to max out at 245Nm, 1200-1600W.

Just wanted to mention that I put an inline ammeter between my second battery and my Truckrun M01 motor -- since last posting here, I did verify that it's the M01 on Priority Current ebikes -- and despite being a 500 watt motor, it routinely draws 900-950 watts (15-20 amps). I can't compare to the BBS02 or BBSHD because I've only ridden a 750 watt Bafang hub motor, but the M01 middrive has a higher top speed, if nothing else. In short, I agree with everything supporters of Truckrun have said so far, basically.

With my M01, though, it doesn't ever hit 900-950 watts unless I'm using the throttle. It's not possible to push the motor quite that hard with the Torque sensors alone, for whatever reason. Also, after 5-10 minutes at 900-950 watts, it drops down to 600-700 (and occasionally I get an error code come up on my display that the interwebz tell me means that my motor is overheating, which doesn't seem possible to trigger without the added throttle, nor has it caused any noticeable wear in 6+ months of riding it the way I do). Take it easy on the motor for a minute or two and it'll go back to 900+, and seems to just kind of keep bouncing back & forth every couple of minutes that way indefinitely.

They're designed for specific mounts ("tumors" I think more experienced people call them), but I really like Truckrun motors despite that.

 

[Zambam]

Just wanted to mention that I put an inline ammeter between my second battery and my Truckrun M01 motor -- since last posting here, I did verify that it's the M01 on Priority Current ebikes -- and despite being a 500 watt motor, it routinely draws 900-950 watts (15-20 amps). I can't compare to the BBS02 or BBSHD because I've only ridden a 750 watt Bafang hub motor, but the M01 middrive has a higher top speed, if nothing else. In short, I agree with everything supporters of Truckrun have said so far, basically.

With my M01, though, it doesn't ever hit 900-950 watts unless I'm using the throttle. It's not possible to push the motor quite that hard with the Torque sensors alone, for whatever reason. Also, after 5-10 minutes at 900-950 watts, it drops down to 600-700 (and occasionally I get an error code come up on my display that the interwebz tell me means that my motor is overheating, which doesn't seem possible to trigger without the added throttle, nor has it caused any noticeable wear in 6+ months of riding it the way I do). Take it easy on the motor for a minute or two and it'll go back to 900+, and seems to just kind of keep bouncing back & forth every couple of minutes that way indefinitely.

They're designed for specific mounts ("tumors" I think more experienced people call them), but I really like Truckrun motors despite that.

How long have you had yours and what size is your Priority Current? I've been trying to arrange (via email) to see/ touch or better yet, test ride a small size at their Hudson St store for 2 years now w/o success.

 

[riding_on]

How long have you had yours and what size is your Priority Current? I've been trying to arrange (via email) to see/ touch or better yet, test ride a small size at their Hudson St store for 2 years now w/o success.

Medium. It's a great ebike with extremely responsive torque sensing. If you set it on power levels above 2 though, the range is absolute garbage. The stock, in-frame battery on mine cuts out after 5 miles if I put it on assist level 5 (the max). Level 1 is ~150 watts, 2 is ~300, 3 is ~450, 4 is ~700 watts and 5 is ~900 watts. But then again, I do live in an extremely hilly area; lots of steep inclines both ways no matter what direction I head in. When I say "cuts out," what I mean is that it very noticeably drops itself down to assist level 1 or 2 immediately, flashes a dead battery display, and then lasts so long at that level of power output that I've never actually had it die on me. Goes at least 2+ miles like that, but I tinkered with mine and have four batteries on the thing (it's my only transportation, so I like having ~100 miles of range).

Their customer service is top notch too. It's a great ride, and I haven't found a better one for the price, but it comes up short in a lot of ways as well.

 

[DaLanMan]

Mebbe it is post covid... But I really wanna see an option 6, where it actually woke you up this morning with a smack on the gob...

 

[SprocketLocket]

the truckrun m09 absolutely makes mincemeat out of the bafang g510 (m620) [...]

Dougal227, I SO appreciate your info on the M09 vs the G510, and I'm sure other will. It is so valuable, as so little info (as of yet) is available to the DIY/enthusiast community on this motor, beyond paper specs. I mean, what's available in this thread is pretty much it.

I have an important question that I think you can answer. What is the NOISE/SOUND like, in comparison to the G510?

One of my favorite aspects of ebikes is the quietness. I'm okay with some noise (nothing obnoxious like the Cyclone or old Currie's), but the QUALITY (type) of sound is important too ("what does it sound like")--not just the amount. Almost every video Truckrun has put out, there's only music as sound, to the point it's suspicious. (And actually, most videos about the M09 don't even involve a bike moving!) I found 1 vid of 2 Truckrun employees riding by on a dirt road, at what seems to be full speed by one's tuck posture (which didn't seem very fast, honestly), and it had sound.. which reminded me of a mosquito when you're trying to sleep, and you hear it slowly coming for your ear. Only louder. It was hard to tell, though. (Well.. here it that vid, as I'm sure others will want it.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHnpn36OikE

The only other 'noise info' I could find was on the M09's spec sheet (I thin at truckrun-e.com), which stated noise as ">55dB", but nearly all motors were rated likewise, with one I think ">65dB", but none were rated quieter, even though I'm sure some are. But I found no subjective or recorded comparisons with the G510. I know they both use metal, non-helical gears with big (probably-noisy) teeth. Any subjective info/comparison you could give, would be helpful. A video or audio file would be cherry.

The G510 is already I think on the border of what I could handle noise-wise, BUT there is a lot of online information about how to 1) remove the motors, 2) open them safely, and 3) add grease (all separate topics), which quiets them A LOT, the results of which I find nice. So I think I'd do that, if I had a G510--despite that being at the fringe of my skill level. I'd be too scared to do that with the M09, given literally no info on any of this! So I'd probably be stuck with however loud the M09 is, at least until more/better info came out. Truckrun actually suggests that 'too much' grease (as a 'factory defect') could cause a malfunction or error code, which worried me, and made me wonder why they used THAT as their public example of a 'motor defect' (other than saving face).

I was already a member here, but found this thread on a web search, looking for exactly the comparison this title describes. Dougal227, you have really given a 'recipe' in your posts on how one could have a dream bike, down to the belt drive, and the 'secret ingredient'--the tensioner. Thank you. I am now considering someday trying that (on a commercial ebike, if this all works out!).

One more question. You said that "mine is uart and can bus, but I'll let you do your homework". What did you mean by uart AND canbus? Is it both? And how were you able to tell? And what can you do with that? If the M09 were compatible with something like an Eggrider, that would be fantastic. I've scoured the internet, there is nothing on which protocol they use, much less how to program them. All I could find is implications that Truckruns are 'not programmable'. There also might be a password-protected menu in the display, which I guess only the ebike vendor could give you (barring a leak). And the only important display-available function I'm aware of, is changing the speed limit, which may not be password-protected. Going by what you said, it's not as necessary to program them (versus the G510), which is relieving.. but people still like to tweak things (including me).

 

[SprocketLocket]

I don't want to clutter my questions to Bugsy above, as my post was already long.


Some more questions I thought of:

Does Truckrun use Bafang-standard cables? (Is there anything proprietary with cabling, other than pinouts?)

Do Bafang cables (such as extension cords) work on Truckrun motors?
Such as, if I raised my handlebars a lot, and ran out of cabling for the display, could I use a Bafang display extension cable on the M09? I know that Truckrun pinouts are different, but using an extension cable, the pinouts should go to the same place.

What Bafang accessories work on Truckrun? Displays?
I already understand that Bafang-compatible throttles are plug-and-play.

Where do the e-brake cutoff cables connect in a Truckrun (or Bafang for that matter)?
(To the display, or to the motor directly?) In other words, to raise the display, if you run out of cable while raising the handlebars , do you just have to extend the display, or do the e-brake wires need to be individually extended too?


Sharing some things I've learned in my own research on the M09...
Anything below could be wrong--corrections welcomed.

- The maximum 'speed limit' (set from in the display Settings menu) is 60 km/h (37 mph). Throttle and PAS give out at that speed. Source: Firon Woo/4Leaf (but that could be a 4Leaf thing?). (Source: youtube.com/watch?v=Q3484fYmRIA)

- It may be possible that manufacturers program the M09 to have different 'speed limits' for throttle and PAS. I think I saw one where throttle cut at 52 km/h (32 mph), but the PAS at 60 km/h. I'd want it as unrestricted as possible.

- The M09 will (or can) accept a nominal battery voltage of 60V! (source: truckrun-e.com .) If the firmware is vendor-programmed to expect 48V or 52V nominal, it's not clear to me how a 60V battery (16s) would react. Would it refuse to run (but not sustain damage), would the display 'act weird' but the bike would still 'work' (like some 48V M620 systems behave on 52V), or just 'work normally'? (Either of the last two would be fantastic.) For that matter, if the bike was sold with a 48V battery, how would it react with a 52V battery?

- There are 3 power ratings for this motor, I suppose firmware-limited(?): 750, 1000, and 1200 watts. (I don't see a point of getting the 750W unless you could unlock it.) Since these are apparently 'continuous' values, I wanted to know what the 'peak' value was. That was more difficult to find, and conflicting. Weldinpat--in this thread, post #16, said:

M09 is claimed to max out at 245Nm, 1200-1600W.

Weldinpat, would you mind sharing the source for this, if you remember?
For the 1200W, I saw very conflicting values of 1200W, 1500W, and 2000W.
Assuming 40A is the built-in controller's amp limit, 40A x 48V would yield 2000W.. so 2000W could make sense. It could probably handle more, briefly. The Archon X1 third-party controller for the G510 would max out at 3000W, and Andy Kirby from Cloudsto.co experimentally pushed his to 4000W using a Phaserunner (source). And my impression is the M09 probably has better heat management than the G510.

- The M09 appears to have a dedicated gearshift sensor port built into the motor.

- Discussion of the M09's massive torque claim of 220Nm (not important, just 'thinking out loud', if anyone wants to listen). I'm not sure how meaningful torque ratings are, and if (with the M09's 220Nm) that can be considered a direct comparison to Bafang Ultra's 160NM at 'gut-level impression' of performance, though user feedback here seems to imply possibly yes. That said, I'm starting to conclude that torque ratings alone are not more important than watts. There is a lot of collective knowledge on how to feed the Bafang Ultra watts beyond its rating.. not so with the M09, so it really has to be good 'as it is', to compete (one reason I was asking the real 'peak wattage'). I now think it's more about 'gearing and watts'. For instance, Truckrun's "3000-6000W" (Sur-Ron-like?) mid-drive motor is rated at "30-60Nm" (not a typo), and "5000-7500 RPM". I've seen differing wattage-rated motors by the same manufacturer, rated with the same torque rating. Maybe one's geared slower. Maybe they're both the same peak watts. Maybe they lie. I don't know. If you can't loosen a nut using a short wrench, you can add an extension to the wrench, and loosen the nut with the same amount of force--that leverage is torque, to my understanding. You could run a car (slowly) with a power drill, if you had the gearing and enough time--it would just go a lot slower. In physics class, I think the teacher referred to watts as "work" or "work done" (not counting friction/heat). What really matters is torque delivered to the wheel or the ground, and my understanding is that's not how manufacturers usually rate their motors (Pinion is an exception). That said, I know proper gearing with the same total energy (watts) makes a big difference climbing hills (think mid-drive vs hub motor, when you can trade speed for higher torque by gearing down). So, I think both specifications matter, and torque consideration might need to include speed, in context of watts. All TTBOM.

 

[maniecznik66]

Im also curious about using 60v battery, i have asked truckrun about that an they states that motor needs a different controller but i honestly doubt it. And what about programming it to in example lift current limit a little bit, if it uses bafang compatible cables maybe bafang programming cable would work. Im using this motor for a month now and after riding it hard on the throttle it wont get even warm, so there is a space for sure for some power adjustments