Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

[BareKuda]

Also they sell it with -60 but the hub motor for which they sell it sure has a 120 degree regular hall arrangement so for a 120 degree normal motor -60 is the way to go. I still dont know why but who really cares if the controller works fine?)

Yes, my motor and almost all hub motors have the 120 degree commutation angle, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the hall shift angle. Thats where so many get stuck in the weeds.

Normally when you order this controller you tell the seller motor specs (watts, pole pairs) and battery specs (nominal voltage and chemistry). They will set the basics needed for it to work like a standard Chinese controller without self learning. So -60 hall shift.

All you need to do if connect it like a non programmable controller, swapping phase and hall wires until it runs forward smooth and quite.

And we know once phase wires are sequenced for forward and the hall waires are sequenced for forward, the only think left is to sync them, which can be done either by moving each phase wire over one or each hall wire over one.

Whichever you do, you shifted the sync 120 degrees each time.

The votol just does that internally with hall shift. Unfortunately they give you 360 choices inside of the 3 you get by swap wires.

The first time I installed my votol i set it up manually, externally, leaving hall shift at -60. Then since i dont like mismatched wire colors, I reconnected the phase and hall wires matching colors and paired the controller with my computer.

I ending up woth both boxes checked and +60 degrees hall shift. I wont be surprised if thats what yours needs,

Setting HDC so the 3 speed works is logical. Cause if you dont set a speed then the controller cannot know what speed it is which it has to set the percentage of. However HDC seems like king. It determines the RPM no matter what the base RPM of the motor is. If you set a higher HDC than the base rpm it will force that rpm no matter what. Which is kinda bad cause how do you even determine base RPM with this controller? If I shut HDC i get like 650 rpm which is waay too much...

Setting the RPM might be logical but if Down Hill Control box isn't checked the speed selection wont work. Why do i need downhill braking for it to work? I don’t. Lol.

 

[Sattva Ram]

Well for me color is on color now but I had to tick the "exchange hall and phase wires" for it to spin forward.

 

[Sattva Ram]

So it seems i was running bad hall/phase order. No wonder it cooked the motor...(but I wonder how could it run relatively so smooth. If you mess up the halls and phases it goes absolutely nuts except maybe with a few more lucky combinations...)

 

[Sattva Ram]

However if moving one wire is 120 degrees then why isnt it 0 120 and 240 then? Why does it even let it fill in inbetween values like 177 then? So basically with the hall shift you dont have to swap wires just put color on color and tweak the controller from inside until it's good.

What about the real hall angle? Does it detect it automatically?

 

[Sattva Ram]

So most likely with -60 color on color will work for me as is.

 

[Sattva Ram]

(I just friggin hope that my windings are intact it was very hot...)

 

[Sattva Ram]

Shoot and that's why it wasnt working with the mid motors either....FCK! Actually I was talking to carrie live at that time. I was fumbling with the halls but she didnt say a word about it. She went along with my wrong assumption that the hall shift is the hall angle. She was even indignant that I wanted to run the 138 at 120 degrees and she didnt understand why it works better on 120 degrees than on 60 degrees it was very bad on 60 degrees better on 120 but still not good. And that's what I have now too 120 which is relatively good but still bad enough to cook my motor. But all along it should have been -60. FCK FCK FCK! That's all I can say...

 

[Sattva Ram]

Actually I tried -60 recently it worked well but I found the rpm a bit low (probably related to some bad random HDC setting). So I went to 60 and that's when the controller went to failure. 60 is the absolute worst so much so that it even caused controller failure. 120 is relatively good that's why I could even run on the street with it. However I kinda felt that something was wrong because the 24A controller was more powerful...well if my motor is okay then nothing happened other than a little headache. But if I have to rewind the motor that's a pain in the ass

 

[Sattva Ram]

Okay I tried it. FFS it works well now. It's your setup that works actually. 60 degrees and exchange boxes both ticked.

I cant effin believe it. The motor still works but who knows maybe the windings are soot black inside

 

[Sattva Ram]

Whenever I fumble with the halls I always use a bench power supply so the amps cant go haywire. When I fumbled with the hall shift recently i had no idea that I'm actually fumbling with the wire combinations so i used the battery that didnt even have a friggin bms. So that's why actually it went to controller failure when I was messing with the hall shift because it got some crazy amps. At least the controller is still alive. (Fck once again!!!)

 

[Sattva Ram]

You see! You said not to copy paste your config file. But if I'd done it it would have worked. (Well of course I still wouldnt have known why...but it definitely would have worked)

 

[Sattva Ram]

The absolute tragedy is that there is only one combination out of the 36 where it seems to work well but it actually pulls excessive current. The other symptom of this combination is excessive revs. (Remember my initial problem was excessive revs and i thought it's a flux weak issue). And I find this one combination out of the 36 and burn my motor with it...so much for my luck. If it was any other bad combination then I would have noticed immediately that the combo is bad. But no! Of course not. I have to find the most deceiving combination...

 

[Quinc]

Has anyone messed with the em-260 controller? How do you like it?

 

[BareKuda]

Well for me color is on color now but I had to tick the "exchange hall and phase wires" for it to spin forward.

Yes, I needed to check both boxes to swap both the phase and hall wires. If you get it running perfect backwards (C,B,A for phase and c,b,a for hall) then you need to swap both (which might give something like ABC for phase and b,c,a for hall, right direction but not in sync) and then re-sync hall shift to bring hall a in sync with phase A,, so a 120 deegee shift from what made it run perfect backwards will make it either:
A,B,C phase and c,a,b hall (wrong shift)
or
A,B,C phase ans a,b,c hall (in sync).

If you open the file i send that is mine, you will see both my boxes are checked and i needed to shift +120 degrees from the default—60 to my current setting of +60.

 

[BareKuda]

Well for me color is on color now but I had to tick the "exchange hall and phase wires" for it to spin forward.

Yes, I needed to check both boxes to swap both the phase and hall wires. If you get it running perfect backwards (C,B,A for phase and c,b,a for hall) then you need to swap both (which might give something like ABC for phase and b,c,a for hall, both going correct direction but not in sync) and then re-sync hall shift to bring hall a in sync with phase A,, so a 120 deegee shift from what made it run perfect backwards will make it either:
A,B,C phase and c,a,b hall (wrong shift)
or
A,B,C phase ans a,b,c hall (in sync).

If you open the file i send that is mine, you will see both my boxes are checked and i needed to shift +120 degrees from the default—60 to my current setting of +60.

 

[Sattva Ram]

I think I'm done. This controller went crazy. If I disconnect it from the computer it starts going backwards with a low rpm. If I try to ride it and pedal it then if I pull the throttle it gives it a slight regen but zero forward motion. As soon as I connect the data cable it starts working normally again. (It doesnt need connection to the computer tho all it needs is that the blue dongle is energised by 5 volts). I could make a buck converter so the dongle is always plugged in to 5 volts. But that's quite ridiculous. (However it might have been my fault the black wire got torn from the data cable's connector and might have caused something but I dont really think so because I tore the line exactly because it was going backwards in the first place and tried to remedy it on the spot with an upright bicycle without a kickstand messing it all up. And it has been doing it for a while anyway I just thought that it's not a serious problem. So I dont really think it's because of the snapped data wire. Anyway I'm sick and tired of everything. I think I give everything away my bicycle my motorbike my scooter everything. I dont wanna see any of these craps any longer it just isnt worth it for me at this point. This is getting ridiculous. And it's just the straw that broke the camel's back failure upon failure upon failure so far on all fronts. I never should have started these projects in the first place. Anyway watch out for the data cable especially if you adjust it on the fly it has extremely thin wires

 

[BareKuda]

I think I'm done. This controller went crazy. If I disconnect it from the computer it starts going backwards with a low rpm. If I try to ride it and pedal it then if I pull the throttle it gives it a slight regen but zero forward motion. As soon as I connect the data cable it starts working normally again. (It doesnt need connection to the computer tho all it needs is that the blue dongle is energised by 5 volts). I could make a buck converter so the dongle is always plugged in to 5 volts. But that's quite ridiculous. (However it might have been my fault the black wire got torn from the data cable's connector and might have caused something but I dont really think so because I tore the line exactly because it was going backwards in the first place and tried to remedy it on the spot with an upright bicycle without a kickstand messing it all up. And it has been doing it for a while anyway I just thought that it's not a serious problem. So I dont really think it's because of the snapped data wire. Anyway I'm sick and tired of everything. I think I give everything away my bicycle my motorbike my scooter everything. I dont wanna see any of these craps any longer it just isnt worth it for me at this point. This is getting ridiculous. And it's just the straw that broke the camel's back failure upon failure upon failure so far on all fronts. I never should have started these projects in the first place. Anyway watch out for the data cable especially if you adjust it on the fly it has extremely thin wires

 

[Sattva Ram]

I think the internal dc dc converter went wrong. When I was tweaking the hall shifts I had no idea that I am actually swapping the wires so I didnt use a bench power supply but a battery. The controller went to failure - possibly due to some huge current and/or voltage spike - and only recovered after a reboot. I think that's when the problem happened. Ever since then it only worked from an external 5v supply. I didnt really notice tho because most of the time it was connected to the computer so it worked. The problem only became apparent when I wanted to take it for a test ride. (Anyway the dc dc converter is quite easily repairable. Worst case scenario I use an external power supply. But I am still sick and tired...)

 

[Sattva Ram]

I also think that it's in constant controller failure but as soon as I connect the computer to see whether the controller failure box is checked the controller failure disappears cause now it has a power supply the lack of which is the cause of the failure when only connected to the battery. What a price I am paying for my ignorance a possible burnt motor and a half dead controller...I wonder what misery comes next...Anyway I notified carrie to upgrade the advertisement and draw attention to the difference between hall angle and hall shift. Maybe others dont ef it up like me...

 

[Sattva Ram]

Has anyone messed with the em-260 controller? How do you like it?

I am deliberating between the far driver 72850 and the em260. I have neither but if you ask me I'd go with the FD. You can use 21S with the FD which is an edge already. Also much cleaner manual for the FD. The votol is a mess relative to the FD IMO as far as setting up goes. Plus the FD has bluetooth. It's a bit more expensive tho...I think both are good. After all it's the same category but I'd go with the FD. I think i'll buy that myself.

 

[BareKuda]

I think I'm done. This controller went crazy. If I disconnect it from the computer it starts going backwards with a low rpm. If I try to ride it and pedal it then if I pull the throttle it gives it a slight regen but zero forward motion. As soon as I connect the data cable it starts working normally again. (It doesnt need connection to the computer tho all it needs is that the blue dongle is energised by 5 volts). I could make a buck converter so the dongle is always plugged in to 5 volts. But that's quite ridiculous. (However it might have been my fault the black wire got torn from the data cable's connector and might have caused something but I dont really think so because I tore the line exactly because it was going backwards in the first place and tried to remedy it on the spot with an upright bicycle without a kickstand messing it all up. And it has been doing it for a while anyway I just thought that it's not a serious problem. So I dont really think it's because of the snapped data wire. Anyway I'm sick and tired of everything. I think I give everything away my bicycle my motorbike my scooter everything. I dont wanna see any of these craps any longer it just isnt worth it for me at this point. This is getting ridiculous. And it's just the straw that broke the camel's back failure upon failure upon failure so far on all fronts. I never should have started these projects in the first place. Anyway watch out for the data cable especially if you adjust it on the fly it has extremely thin wires

Are you using Bluetooth? I just use the USB cable. My connector has 4 wires but the +5v isn't used unless i get the Bluetooth module. The ground wire must ge important before all the non-can debugging cable has that wire.


I think you never got step 1 done correct and it’s causing problems ever since. Your settings are so hosed. If i was your neighbor I could come help but I'm not.

My bike is wired correctly. Yours cant be with those port settings.

If I had that in front of me wheres what I would do.
1. Disconnect all connectors except Battery + and -, throttle, ignition, and usb debugging cable. Attach phase and hall wires with matching colors and hall sensor +5+ and ground.

2. I would set all port settings to 1:empty_function except PD15 which is set for 19:undefined_IO_function

You have taken YOUR motor apart and see yours has 11 pole pairs and not the high count pole pair motor like the one on the left below:


3. Set correct pole pairs based on what you know for sure.

I would remove the chain. Dont need it for any testing. It onky causes noise that shouldn’t be there, after it’s working correctly then the chain can be put back on.

4. Pair the controller to the motor using settings. Sounds like youre needs both boxes checked and +60 hall shift but might need +180. Seems like your 120 is halfway between to possible choices.

After motor runs smooth forward, leave FW at 0 Adjust KI and KP to give smooth acceleration. If KI is 0 it wont run. If its too low it will violently rumble under load. If too high it will sound like its overworking because it is.

KP can be 2000-9000. It seems to work ok if KP is about 10x KI. Then can try tweaking each separately:


Once the motor runs well under load, you can start adding other functions.
Choose the brake type you have, either high or low and connect it properly. With 48/60v battery you dont need a 12v power supply for high brake. For 72v you also shouldn’t. Its not going to arc and spark because its just a signal to the controller, unless you have some high drain brake light also wired in,

Once wired, set the port for the one you chose, not both.
If you sent high brake signal to the purple wire as you should, set this port:


If you used low brake instead, to the black/grey wire, set this port instead:




If you 3 speed switch connect it to the proper wires of the controller and set the 3 speeds lke in the picture above and click 3 speed switch, and set these two port settings:



NOTE, as stated before HDC box must be checked on for 3 speed switch to work.

Reboot controller and test speed switch.

If you have a display which uses hall or YXY, connect it to the white wire and set PB9 to either hall similate or single lin (YXT). Set your progress settings to match. If your speed display uses phase signal then you just need to tap into any phase.

Good luck. If you are tired of it give it to a deserving kid in the neighborhood and you might create the next Elon Musk. Lol


This will get rid of all that garbage you have set.

 

[BareKuda]

I think the internal dc dc converter went wrong. When I was tweaking the hall shifts I had no idea that I am actually swapping the wires so I didnt use a bench power supply but a battery. The controller went to failure - possibly due to some huge current and/or voltage spike - and only recovered after a reboot. I think that's when the problem happened. Ever since then it only worked from an external 5v supply. I didnt really notice tho because most of the time it was connected to the computer so it worked. The problem only became apparent when I wanted to take it for a test ride. (Anyway the dc dc converter is quite easily repairable. Worst case scenario I use an external power supply. But I am still sick and tired...)

When the connection goes into failure it only needs reboot to clear as long as the fault is gone. The computer isnt needed. Wrong hall shift or phase wire never caused an error for me but i also only gave tiny throttle when testing until i got it paired.

One time i jad a loose hall sensor connector and each time i went over a bump i got controllers failure and since i have YXT, the votol sent a signal to my display which gave a Motor Fault icon. After a few reboots and reoccurrence I checked the connector and plugged it in all the way. Then no problem since.

 

[BareKuda]

I think the internal dc dc converter went wrong. When I was tweaking the hall shifts I had no idea that I am actually swapping the wires so I didnt use a bench power supply but a battery. The controller went to failure - possibly due to some huge current and/or voltage spike - and only recovered after a reboot. I think that's when the problem happened. Ever since then it only worked from an external 5v supply. I didnt really notice tho because most of the time it was connected to the computer so it worked. The problem only became apparent when I wanted to take it for a test ride. (Anyway the dc dc converter is quite easily repairable. Worst case scenario I use an external power supply. But I am still sick and tired...)

I can attest the controls works fine with 48v because when my 60v battery pack had battery failure i took it out and ran it as 48v.

Dont you have any other motor or controller laying around? You can pair that votol to any BLCD you have laying around.

If your bionx runs fine on a $20 chinese controller then its fine and you just need to pair it correct to the votol.

 

[BareKuda]

I also think that it's in constant controller failure but as soon as I connect the computer to see whether the controller failure box is checked the controller failure disappears cause now it has a power supply the lack of which is the cause of the failure when only connected to the battery. What a price I am paying for my ignorance a possible burnt motor and a half dead controller...I wonder what misery comes next...Anyway I notified carrie to upgrade the advertisement and draw attention to the difference between hall angle and hall shift. Maybe others dont ef it up like me...

Based on this, i think the base speed without flux weakening is really 600ish RPM because thats what it takes for a bicycle tire to go 70 km/h.


Seems the 200 rpm is just for regulations to limit 25km/h, the votol dont care about no stinkin’ regulations. Lol

Once you pair that motor correctly you can set RPM to what you want.

If it were mine i would use the 3 speed switch for 20/40/60 kph or whatever seemed like the motor can take. Thats how i use my speeds for my motor. If I upgrade the motor ill set faster speed.

 

[Sattva Ram]

With the correct setup the rpm is perfect. With the chinese generic controller it is 510 no load rpm at 60 volts. With the votol the base rpm seems 550 without HDC manipulation at 60 volts. So the votol seems to rev it a bit higher. But it's in the ballpark. It works very well now. Everything is fine. The only problem is that it doesnt work when I disconnect it from the computer so I cant even test it on the road. But all my setup problems are solved now. (Or more precisely all major setup problems I'm sure there will be some fine tuning needed) Only I cant use the controller now without the computer supplying 5 volts to it.