Was given a G-Bike - need a charger and probably a battery..

[Sunder]

Do you have any idea how I would test the 4 x 12v SLA's I have? I've got a large Schumacher car battery charger that has tons of settings (as low as a 2a trickle charge all the way up to a 200a cold start setting). I was wondering about charging the batteries individually with that to see if they hold charge but the scooter shop told me the batteries could explode if I do that? (as it has no shutoff etc).

Sorry, missed this replying to Nelson's post, but Dan's reply reminded me about this.

If you can get full access to the SLAs, then split them into individual batteries, and measure the voltage of each battery. If they're above 10.5v, there's a *chance* they might be okay. It will be a miracle if all 4 are 10.5v, adding up to 42v though!

Once you have them apart, charge them at 1/10c (ie. 1.7amp) for about 10 hours, then allow them to cool. Measure the voltage. If it's above 12v now, hit them with enough current to reach 15v for an hour. They should get warm, but if they're unpleasant to touch, stop charging. SLAs can explode during charging in a worse way than LiPos

Allow them to cool and check the voltage again. If it's higher than it was after the 10 hour charge, it's likely sulfation or unbalanced cells is your only issue. In that case, keep repeating the process until the voltage no longer rises. That's the max voltage of your pack.

If it falls back down 11v or so, you've got a shorted cell and there's nothing you can do.

 

[amberwolf]

. LiFePo4 chemistry. One of the safest but also the heaviest, next to lead.

Based on the packs I've had, I'd say NiCd has that "honor".

 

[DAND214]

. LiFePo4 chemistry. One of the safest but also the heaviest, next to lead.

Based on the packs I've had, I'd say NiCd has that "honor".

NiCd? Isn't that what the Flintstones used :lol: :lol: :lol:
I had some that were 50lbs each, they helped powered my Slot car track, BIG suckers. We needed the extra power along with huge truck lead batteries for the Open cars.

Dan

 

[tronics]

I want to say thanks to all of you who have helped me in this thread, especially Powersupply, Dand, Sunder, Markz & Amberwolf.

This has been a real learning experience and it seems that the world of batteries is a lot more complex than the average person thinks.

I looked in to the batteries from ebikes.ca and while they have great density options, the cost is just out of my league; they don't have a thing under $700 right now.

Luna Cycle on the other hand were really helpful and they suggested, given my specific situation, I could use a 52V mighty mini pack. these things seem incredible! Only 3.3lbs and $300 with BMS. It's only going to be 6ah but one of the guys tried it out on his own ebike with similar specs as mine and managed his 10mile ride home and apparently the unit still had juice. They basically asked me why I'm trying to get a 22ah battery when I only want to do 8miles max a day? Made sense in that respect and I REALLY like the idea of dropping 40lbs of SLA weight off the bike. They reckon the mighty mini's are good for 30amp use and have good peak discharge so speed and acceleration are not going to be an issue, their only concern is long distance, which is not my bag.

They said a 52V battery would be fine as 48v's are so close and usually carry more V's anyway.

The only slight worry is that my controller has a over-voltage cutoff and won't like the new pack but I'm going to buy it on the understanding that if my bike doesn;t like it, I can return it. I suppose I could get a different controller worse comes to worse, but it will start to get uneconomic for a 4 year old slightly junky chinese bike.

As for the key, I found a locksmith that's willing to make a key but I have to send the ignition to him. Now to figure out those screws that someone kindly rounded off.

One weird thing(and is this normal?) I charged the bike for a long time using the slow charger and hotwired the bike. All I got was the headlights flashing/pulsing dimly, even in the off position. I'm assuming this is a "low battery" warning but does anyone know for sure?

Again, thanks to all of you for the tips and pointers, I'll post back here if I get it up and running!

 

[DAND214]

I would still get a bigger one, like 10ah.

Dan

 

[Sunder]

Let us know how it works out for you.

By the way, if you are intending on using it every day, then getting a pack that is twice the size you need will last longer than getting exactly the size you need. Batteries last more than twice as long when you only use half their capacities each time. If you're only using it a few times a week, then it won't make much of a difference.

 

[amberwolf]

They reckon the mighty mini's are good for 30amp use

Which cells does it use?

If they are the 26f, then I disagree with that (if you expect it to last), based on the 26f cell pack I have here under test right now
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=81108
Keep in mind that I'm still learning about these types of cells and whatnot, so there is a lot of speculation from me in that thread that might end up being unfounded.

There's a lot of info about various Samsung (and other) cells around ES that should help you decide if it's what you want, if you find out which cells that pack uses (it should say on their site, but unless you link us to the specific pack you're discussing with them I cant' be sure which it is).



But either way, I'm with Sunder on a bigger pack just to keep from running a little one so hard, and *also* because if you have a pack only just big enough to get from your A to your B, then on that windy day with traffic detours you're gonna be pedalling instead.

 

[tronics]

I would still get a bigger one, like 10ah.

Dan

That would be great but the price jumps by $200 for anything close to the same discharge specs

Let us know how it works out for you.

By the way, if you are intending on using it every day, then getting a pack that is twice the size you need will last longer than getting exactly the size you need. Batteries last more than twice as long when you only use half their capacities each time. If you're only using it a few times a week, then it won't make much of a difference.

Thanks - that had crossed my mind and was worried that the pack might need charging so much more often which means less life cycles etc. The guys at Luna reckon though it will go 10 miles at the speed I want and as I'm only doing half that a day they think I'll be fine. They also said it should go further becuase of the dramatic weight reduction on the bike?

Which cells does it use?

If they are the 26f, then I disagree with that (if you expect it to last), based on the 26f cell pack I have here under test right now
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=81108
Keep in mind that I'm still learning about these types of cells and whatnot, so there is a lot of speculation from me in that thread that might end up being unfounded.

There's a lot of info about various Samsung (and other) cells around ES that should help you decide if it's what you want, if you find out which cells that pack uses (it should say on their site, but unless you link us to the specific pack you're discussing with them I cant' be sure which it is).



But either way, I'm with Sunder on a bigger pack just to keep from running a little one so hard, and *also* because if you have a pack only just big enough to get from your A to your B, then on that windy day with traffic detours you're gonna be pedalling instead.

Really interesting thread you have there - the one I'm going for is this one:

http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/52v/52v-mighty-mini-cube-samsung-ebike-battery-pack-30q-6ah-3-pounds/

"14s2p = 28 Genuine name brand grade Samsung 18650 cells (see breakdown on 18650 cells)
30 amp continuous 50amp maximum BMS"

There's one above it which is a 7ah but they said the tradeoff between them is burst performance vs distance, and in my case they said the one above is the sweet spot as it will still do more than my distance.

If you all think it won't do what I need then I'll look elsewhere - I don't want something that's going to be tight in terms of distance as the "pedal" feature on mine is nothing more than a legal loophole; the pedals are about 30inches apart and unless on a complete flat, it's basically impossible to pedal. It's all on the battery or I hand push the damn thing home lol.

If I do get that battery, what connectors should I get? right now, the charging port is IEC female and I'm not sure what the connectors are beyond that. Should I swap them all out for andersons?

 

[amberwolf]

Personally, I don't think the IEC connectors belong on anything other than AC-input devices that run on 110-120VAC. When they are used on DC-input devices they simply invite disaster for someone plugging it into a wall directly by accident (or even on purpose), if they happen to have the right cord for that. (I have a number of different IEC cords around here with wall plugs on one end and male on the other, from some old data terminal stuff I once had; I've seen them in other people's "cord collections" too, so they can't be so rare as to prevent the problem).


As to the pack's capabilities, that link says they are Samsung 30q (INR18650-30Q) and the link from the link says they are capable of 15A continuous, with 400 charge cycles. I don't know that both are true at the same time, though, you'd have to look up the specs for it to see it's charge and discharge curves at various rates, vs lifetime, to find out for sure.

If you use the bike every day, and use the pack to empty or nearly so every day, then 400 cycles means 400 days, or just over a year of use, before the pack has lost significant capacity (and it's not a sudden thing, it loses a little every cycle, just can get worse faster with age/use, and it isn't that it's not usable after that many cycles, just that it would be only 80% or less of what it had been, it'll probably sag more under load, might not make the full trip anymore, etc).

If the pack has to be recharged on each leg of the trip, so twice per day rather than once, it'll last only half as long.

If you have a bigger pack, say double that capacity, then it would last twice as long (more, really, because it sees less load and less heating, etc).


So it depends on how you want to use the pack, how long you need it to last, what range you need out of it at the loads your system puts on it, etc.

I personally prefer a much bigger pack than I typically need, because it lets me have range to do things I need when they come up without having to find plugs and time to charge multiple times on the trip, and also so the pack can easily provide the high power levels I need to accelerate quickly despite my heavy loaded GVW and inability to help much (or at all) via pedalling, without the pack seeing such high loads that it is aged or damaged from internal heating.

 

[powersupply]

similar to replacing a diesel motor with gasoline motor, you'll face many obstacles.

the cotroller will cut out with 12s, and the 13s might kill it when fully charged, this happened to me with that same bike.
so add a controller to the whole calculation if you really want to go 13s at some point

most importandly, if you don't have the time to do it yourself, or the money, just forget it and get 4 new regular SLA's and enjoy your short rides.

one important suggestion for that: the charger was overcharging the SLA's I couldn't set the float voltage, so I used a simple mechanical timer to shut off the charge cycle.
I removed the "on" flag from this style timer for that.
http://www.bobmc.net/doku2/lib/exe/...ne_snack_machine&cache=cache&media=timer1.gif

depending how long a ride i had, i would set the timer and that was it.

do the same.

and whenever you need a longer range, you can always come back to this forum.

 

[tronics]

Personally, I don't think the IEC connectors belong on anything other than AC-input devices that run on 110-120VAC. When they are used on DC-input devices they simply invite disaster for someone plugging it into a wall directly by accident (or even on purpose), if they happen to have the right cord for that. (I have a number of different IEC cords around here with wall plugs on one end and male on the other, from some old data terminal stuff I once had; I've seen them in other people's "cord collections" too, so they can't be so rare as to prevent the problem).


As to the pack's capabilities, that link says they are Samsung 30q (INR18650-30Q) and the link from the link says they are capable of 15A continuous, with 400 charge cycles. I don't know that both are true at the same time, though, you'd have to look up the specs for it to see it's charge and discharge curves at various rates, vs lifetime, to find out for sure.

If you use the bike every day, and use the pack to empty or nearly so every day, then 400 cycles means 400 days, or just over a year of use, before the pack has lost significant capacity (and it's not a sudden thing, it loses a little every cycle, just can get worse faster with age/use, and it isn't that it's not usable after that many cycles, just that it would be only 80% or less of what it had been, it'll probably sag more under load, might not make the full trip anymore, etc).

If the pack has to be recharged on each leg of the trip, so twice per day rather than once, it'll last only half as long.

If you have a bigger pack, say double that capacity, then it would last twice as long (more, really, because it sees less load and less heating, etc).


So it depends on how you want to use the pack, how long you need it to last, what range you need out of it at the loads your system puts on it, etc.

I personally prefer a much bigger pack than I typically need, because it lets me have range to do things I need when they come up without having to find plugs and time to charge multiple times on the trip, and also so the pack can easily provide the high power levels I need to accelerate quickly despite my heavy loaded GVW and inability to help much (or at all) via pedalling, without the pack seeing such high loads that it is aged or damaged from internal heating.

Good info, thanks again. I don't like EIC connectors for this application, but given I'm only ever going to be the one that charges it, I'm not really worried about a normal AC cable getting connected. It's sucks as a connector anyway but it will get the job done. I suppose I need to speak to Luna and make sure it has the specs they're saying it does. It really wouldn't be economic to only last a year if I have to charge it every two miles but if I get the there and back on it, then that would be fine for me. Thanks again or the insight.

similar to replacing a diesel motor with gasoline motor, you'll face many obstacles.

the cotroller will cut out with 12s, and the 13s might kill it when fully charged, this happened to me with that same bike.
so add a controller to the whole calculation if you really want to go 13s at some point

Now this sentence worries me - are you saying 12s isn't enough voltage? And the controller will cut out? and 13s is too much and will fry my controller?

Then what battery can it take?!?!?!?!

most importandly, if you don't have the time to do it yourself, or the money, just forget it and get 4 new regular SLA's and enjoy your short rides.

This was my original plan but the weight has become an important factor. As you know, the bike aint light as it is and dropping the weight on the heaviest single component is really attractive. I don't need to go the RC battery route but even dropping 20lbs would make a difference and again, the more weight I drop the longer/faster I get etc.

one important suggestion for that: the charger was overcharging the SLA's I couldn't set the float voltage, so I used a simple mechanical timer to shut off the charge cycle.
I removed the "on" flag from this style timer for that.
http://www.bobmc.net/doku2/lib/exe/...ne_snack_machine&cache=cache&media=timer1.gif

depending how long a ride i had, i would set the timer and that was it.

do the same.

and whenever you need a longer range, you can always come back to this forum.

The charger I have is a basic one but it reckons that it has a shuotff for fully charged, although the mechanical timer is a good idea - I actually have that exact one!

So can I ask what controller you went for? Did you go for a 52v one in the end? Did you change your motor?

And just to confirm, about the 12s/13s, are you saying if I get a 52V battery, the controller will not work?

 

[Sunder]

similar to replacing a diesel motor with gasoline motor, you'll face many obstacles.

the cotroller will cut out with 12s, and the 13s might kill it when fully charged, this happened to me with that same bike.
so add a controller to the whole calculation if you really want to go 13s at some point

Now this sentence worries me - are you saying 12s isn't enough voltage? And the controller will cut out? and 13s is too much and will fry my controller?

Then what battery can it take?!?!?!?!

I hate to contradict other users, but I don't think Powersupply knows what he's talking about. A fully charged 12v battery is 13.8v. That means a fully charged 48v battery is 55.2v

A 13S battery is made up of 13 x 4.2v cells. 13 x 4.2v is 54.6v. you're safe by 0.6v.

It's not so easy to prove 12S won't trip the LVC, but see this ad for a controller:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric-Bicycle-Brushless-Motor-Controller-48V-1500W-18-Fets-For-E-bike-Scooter-/361055624596?hash=item5410979d94:g:hrgAAOSwxH1UG6Rt

It states the Undervoltage protection is 42v.

42v / 12 cells = 3.5v per cell. At 3.5v, you've got less than 5% of the capacity of the cell left, so you're not missing out on much.

I don't mean to dis Powersupply, but feel absolutely safe using either 12S or 13S. Almost everyone on the forum does safely. (I actually used 14S for a while to get a little extra speed. But when that pack wore out, the difference in price for an extra 3-4km/h wasn't worth it. As I said before 2 x 6S is dirt cheao, 2 x 7S gets expensive.)

 

[DAND214]

If you talk to Luna verify that your charger will work and not cause a problem. Yes as Sunder said, 12/13 and even 14s should be no problem. 13s is a sure bet.

dan

 

[powersupply]

The City G-Bike we are talking about (at least both of mine) have a low volatge cutout which would shut off long before the 12s battery was exhausted.
I had 12 pieces of the 4s/5A batteries arranged as 4p12s.
So I got me another of the 4s 5A and sliced and diced it so that I had a 4p13s configuration.

All was well and speed and weight were great, when all of the sudden, a month later, with only me on the bike, the controller made a "tuck", and the FETs were gone as mentioned.

I replaced the FETa (75V,75A) added some caps, and all was well until the next "tuck" a month later.
So this time I looked closer, and found out that the way the FETs are driven is totally against (my) common belief.
The FETs were not driven by sharp flanks, but had in fact larger than dampening capacitors at their gate.

After discussing this with a few felllow members here, I understood that the controller was designed to to do just what it was intended for.
So I got me a Lyen controller (wouldn't do that now) and all is fine ever since, no more "tucks".

I basically replaced charger, battery and controller (and added some better connectors) to get here.
That's what I meant with Diesel etc.

The spare motor is 750W, the one im driving 1kW, and it gets just warm when me and a passenger are cruising max speed on flat roads.

I don't know what made the controllers die, never claimed it was due to overvoltage killing the (75V!!) FET's as it is suggested here by a fellow member.
Another subject said fellow member did not consider before rendering judgment, is that I replaced the measely cables with thick ones and used an Anderson connector for power. I had measured quite some drop.
And added capacitors to the rail.
It's all there in my posts from a few years back.

 

[cgokey]

Joined together with one of these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25661__XT90_Battery_Harness_10AWG_for_2_Packs_in_Series.html

Hi Sunder, just wanted to says thanks for providing all this useful info... This is great! I think that I'm going to go the lipo route, makes sense it my case,
will just read everything make sure I'm doing it right. Thinking about buying a fireproof safe for storage as well, so I don't have to worry...

But question though...
You know of other reputable places where I can get these harnesses? HobbyKing is sold out. Looking for two of them actually, one harness for serial and the other for parallel.

 

[tronics]

similar to replacing a diesel motor with gasoline motor, you'll face many obstacles.

the cotroller will cut out with 12s, and the 13s might kill it when fully charged, this happened to me with that same bike.
so add a controller to the whole calculation if you really want to go 13s at some point

Now this sentence worries me - are you saying 12s isn't enough voltage? And the controller will cut out? and 13s is too much and will fry my controller?

Then what battery can it take?!?!?!?!

I hate to contradict other users, but I don't think Powersupply knows what he's talking about. A fully charged 12v battery is 13.8v. That means a fully charged 48v battery is 55.2v

A 13S battery is made up of 13 x 4.2v cells. 13 x 4.2v is 54.6v. you're safe by 0.6v.

It's not so easy to prove 12S won't trip the LVC, but see this ad for a controller:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric-Bicycle-Brushless-Motor-Controller-48V-1500W-18-Fets-For-E-bike-Scooter-/361055624596?hash=item5410979d94:g:hrgAAOSwxH1UG6Rt

It states the Undervoltage protection is 42v.

42v / 12 cells = 3.5v per cell. At 3.5v, you've got less than 5% of the capacity of the cell left, so you're not missing out on much.

I don't mean to dis Powersupply, but feel absolutely safe using either 12S or 13S. Almost everyone on the forum does safely. (I actually used 14S for a while to get a little extra speed. But when that pack wore out, the difference in price for an extra 3-4km/h wasn't worth it. As I said before 2 x 6S is dirt cheao, 2 x 7S gets expensive.)

I'm not sure that powersupply deserves that; I think he clearly knows a lot about batteries, ebikes and electronics as a whole. he's also the single only person that not only owns this bike ( actually 2 to be accurate) but has stripped them down to raw parts and rebuilt them. Sadly this is a little bit more faceted that a mountain bike with a pack strapped to it and the chinese have a done a number on this one.

Looking at powersupply's answer, it seems the controller here is not your regular type and in speaking to a few engineers, this was how the first few cheap ones were made, which is not a good sign, but I think the false indication here is that he got a bad one and I'm not convinced the battery overage was to blame; the real difference in voltage is around 10% between what the new 52v battery was and the old stock SLA's so I think it was a faulty controller in his case.

I spoke to Luna again and this time they looked at the direct specs of the bike and armed with a little more knowledge (thanks to this forum!) they actually said the Mighty Mini probably isn't the best idea; although the weight drop would be massive, it would begin to be at it's max on a bike of this weight (150/200lbs?) after 8 miles meaning it would need charging every day. The on paper 400 cycles are probably 200-300 so that's one year for a $315 battery. Not good.

In the end, I ponied up $500 and got this one:

http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/52v/52v-pansonic-pf-11-5ah-performance-pack/

It's dense power, about twice the distance and probably need charging every other day. Also, seeing as I'm going to 52v it's nice to have a built in powermeter, that I may try to relocate in the seat compartment.

Would love to hear what you all think and wish me luck! Should be with me tomorrow!..........

 

[powersupply]

Hi tronics,
That pack looks really nice! Congratulations.

My FET's clearly died of overcurrent. The way they were driven and the low resistance of the new cables/connectors and a "real" 20A battery with several C was like putting gasoline in a Dieselmotor (just figurative).

But you have not touched the original wires and connectors, so with that resistance and a generally weaker battery and maybe a newer controller, I think you could be fine.
Only time will tell. And in case it fails, just get a new controller instead of exchanging the FETs.

You'll figure out within days the needed charge cycle. And you could remove the old SLAs and cut a small window (keep that cutout) in the lid of the battery compartment and fasten your battery to the lid.
Another recommendadion: always have the pedals with you, it is the law here and some cops do really check that.

I wish you all well and good luck!

 

[powersupply]

Display via 45 deg mirror, good enough for the occasional check.

 

[tronics]

Thanks so much Powersupply!

I'm hoping I'll get away with just dropping the new battery in and the controller still working but if it fries it, I suppose I'll just get a new controller. Is there one you'd recommend? I don't want to change the motor too so just something that would basically be a straight swap out for the 750w brushed motor and good for my new battery?

I'd heard that about the pedals from the previous owner - she also gave me a sheet of paper that spells out the law after one cop gave her a ton of grief, he didn't actually know the law and was going to arrest her until she pulled it up on her phone and showed him that it's technically a pedal bike.

Granted, i do know it's going to be more of a cop magnet becuase it really looks like a chinese moped / gas scooter without a license plate.

But did I read right before is that you take a passenger on the back? is that legal?

 

[powersupply]

Sorry, don't know which controller, but check around here, and get a really simple/inexpensive one.
No need to replace motor, never had issues as mentioned. I had issues with what turend out to be the wiring from/to the controller.
Both of mine are brushless, I guess yours, too.

Yes, passenger in back is totally Ok, like with a fitted bicyle (i.e. own seat and footrests).
But both dirver and passenger must have (bicycle) helmets.
That is the only big amendment for these powered thigs here in CA.

I, too had a nasty, arrogant, horse riding cop who refused to even look at that printout of the law. He looked more like a polished toy doll than a cop.
I finally asked for his supervisor (there is a way to challenge cops, don't want to go too much into detail here), and that was it, he left, with the wind up key purring in his back.

But in recent time, younger and intrigued cops actually insisted demonstration that it is a bicycle, so far just showing the pedals was enough.
Most are really nice and just curious.
I always offer them to take a ride.

 

[Sunder]

I'm not sure that powersupply deserves that; I think he clearly knows a lot about batteries, ebikes and electronics as a whole. he's also the single only person that not only owns this bike ( actually 2 to be accurate) but has stripped them down to raw parts and rebuilt them. Sadly this is a little bit more faceted that a mountain bike with a pack strapped to it and the chinese have a done a number on this one.

Looking at powersupply's answer, it seems the controller here is not your regular type and in speaking to a few engineers, this was how the first few cheap ones were made, which is not a good sign, but I think the false indication here is that he got a bad one and I'm not convinced the battery overage was to blame; the real difference in voltage is around 10% between what the new 52v battery was and the old stock SLA's so I think it was a faulty controller in his case.

I spoke to Luna again and this time they looked at the direct specs of the bike and armed with a little more knowledge (thanks to this forum!) they actually said the Mighty Mini probably isn't the best idea; although the weight drop would be massive, it would begin to be at it's max on a bike of this weight (150/200lbs?) after 8 miles meaning it would need charging every day. The on paper 400 cycles are probably 200-300 so that's one year for a $315 battery. Not good.

In the end, I ponied up $500 and got this one:

http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/52v/52v-pansonic-pf-11-5ah-performance-pack/

It's dense power, about twice the distance and probably need charging every other day. Also, seeing as I'm going to 52v it's nice to have a built in powermeter, that I may try to relocate in the seat compartment.

Would love to hear what you all think and wish me luck! Should be with me tomorrow!..........

It's why I hate contradicting others, but when maths and reality conflict, 99.9999% of the time, reality is wrong. Like you said, he probably got a dud controller, because there's no chance of over-volting with a new battery that doesn't even go to the same voltage as the old one!

That said, you were nervous about getting a 13S battery, so you bought a 14S battery instead? That baby hits 58v on full charge. Still safe on 63v caps, so I don't see any problems, except that now you're ignoring Powersupply's advice.

 

[tronics]

Sorry, don't know which controller, but check around here, and get a really simple/inexpensive one.
No need to replace motor, never had issues as mentioned. I had issues with what turend out to be the wiring from/to the controller.
Both of mine are brushless, I guess yours, too.

Yes, passenger in back is totally Ok, like with a fitted bicyle (i.e. own seat and footrests).
But both dirver and passenger must have (bicycle) helmets.
That is the only big amendment for these powered thigs here in CA.

I, too had a nasty, arrogant, horse riding cop who refused to even look at that printout of the law. He looked more like a polished toy doll than a cop.
I finally asked for his supervisor (there is a way to challenge cops, don't want to go too much into detail here), and that was it, he left, with the wind up key purring in his back.

But in recent time, younger and intrigued cops actually insisted demonstration that it is a bicycle, so far just showing the pedals was enough.
Most are really nice and just curious.
I always offer them to take a ride.

Cheers. Hmmm, I swear my controller said brushed on the sticker but I'll have to double check. Hopefully won't get too much grief from the fuzz and I'll always have the paperwork and pedals on me anyway.

It's why I hate contradicting others, but when maths and reality conflict, 99.9999% of the time, reality is wrong. Like you said, he probably got a dud controller, because there's no chance of over-volting with a new battery that doesn't even go to the same voltage as the old one!

That said, you were nervous about getting a 13S battery, so you bought a 14S battery instead? That baby hits 58v on full charge. Still safe on 63v caps, so I don't see any problems, except that now you're ignoring Powersupply's advice.

I hear you, I just think in his case it was the controller not the battery at fault.

Here's my logic for going for this battery:

In both speaking to people on here and the very helpful guys at Lunba Cycle (especially richard) I came to the conclusion that the mighty mini wasn't going to do it. Richard also explained that more so than anything else, the battery is the single most important (and expensive) one thing on the bike and if this bike doesn't work out, I've at least got a good battery to try in a different bike.

I may have the same issue eventually as Powersupply with the controller (if they just used crap ones altogether) but seeing as a decent controller is only $50-100, It really didn't make sense to get a lower powered and lesser performance battery due to a much less expensive "bottle neck component. Also the economics just didn't make sense: a decent 48v 6ah LiPo is still going to cost $300, whereas a 52v 14ah is only just over $400. The extra $100 for all that extra power and distance is a no brainer, especially when the life cycles of the cheaper one is going to be at it's limit.

Also, at least with the readily available batteries here in the USA, the trend has moved away from 48v - that's really a throwback to SLA's due to the easy 4 x 12v configuration of small automotive batteries (motorbike, golf cart etc). Now more advanced batteries are being specced by the cell, 52v (and even 60v) are becoming far more popular. Makes sense seeing as in a lot of situations, you can drop in the bigger battery in to a previously 48v rig and get more from it.

So given the economics, what the spending priorities should be focussed on (battery), the fact the fears about the controller might not be warranted due to Powersupply maybe just being unlucky with a dud and finally that 52v offers better performance and longevity, it really doesn't it makes sense to go with a battery that would have just met the old specs.

One thing I wanted to highlight to you all (and I hope Luna Cycle are listening) is that while their front end support (Richard/Technical sales) were FANTASTIC, their backend operations are sadly seriously lacking.

I placed the order on Thursday lunch time for items that were all in stock in the hopes it would be shipped out that day for delivery the next day. Richard made it clear he couldn't promise it but would see if they could.

Aside from an automated email which arrived as soon as I checked out the order, complete radio silence. On friday, I called them all day long and no one picked up until Richard had seen someonme blowing up the phone and called me back around 5:30pm.

it seems technical sales and operations and virtually two completely different entities and when you call for support you're being diverted to someone that more than likely isn't at Luna Cycle or their mobile phone. There is absolutely NO WAY to actually speak to anyone physically at Luna Cycle (I tried - all you can find is the 800 support line).

We eventually found out they were due to ship it on Friday but I have a feeling if I hadn't pestered them it wouldn't have been shipped and I would have even got an update. The really dumb thing about it was that I could have gone down there to pick it up but the only way they allow that is if you cancel the order, and go down to pay cash (no cards etc). It would have meant getting $500 cash out and cancelling the previous order and waiting 5 to 7 days for the refund.

It's in transit now so i won't get it until monday but my advice for anyone buying from Luna, don't try to place a order if you need it quick - they are really badly set up in that respect.

 

[Sunder]

Never bought from Luna before, but give the company a bit of credit. If he said he'd try his best, but couldn't promise anything, then you really can't be disappointed if he didn't deliver.

eBay and other large stores have spoilt us. I remember when ordering anything by post came with a disclaimer "Allow 6-8 weeks for delivery".

Your argument is solid. Glad you eventually got the information you needed to make the right choice. It was hard for us to give you the right advice the first time, because you hadn't really stated what your budget and thoughts were, just a distance, and that you wanted to spend as little as possible. Even then, there's many ways to skin a cat. E.g. In your situation, I would have gone the RC LiPo route, but our expectations for maintenance and safety are different.

By the way, here is a list of common capacitor voltages. You can see why people are going 14S, and even willing to dice with 15S because once you go over 50v (Which you have to for 48v SLA), the next jump is 63v. Therefore anything that is safe on 48v SLA, should be safe with up to 14S Lithium, or even 15S lithium if you like to live dangerously.

 

[Sunder]

It's been almost a week since the battery should have been delivered. Got it working yet? Let us know how you went with it all.

 

[tronics]

So after a lot of annoyance from UPS, I finally got the battery.

I was kinda amazed how small and compact it was, not to mention lightweight.

The first mission was to get the battery compartment open - remember I don't have a key for his bike - but managed to pick fairly easily....

....but christ were those SLA's heavy!!! They were also badly swollen, and the terminals really corroded. I see why Powersupply was going on about the IEC not being appropriate - I had no idea they had used IEC connectors inside the battery bay as well.

Not having a socket mount X90's I just chopped off the IEC in the battery bay and (messily) soldered the spare one that came with the battery to the raw ends I'd just made, and wrapped the each tightly in electrical amalgamating tape. Not pretty but will do the job.

The battery weighs less than ONE of the SLA's so I had to find a way to secure in in the newfound space of the battery compartment - for the time being, I've cut some 1" thick styrofoam layers in to the shape of the compartment, less the battery form but only did it to half the height of the battery as I was worried about heat if it was totally encapsulated in styrofoam). Seems to grip it well and I don't hear any knocking etc.

I also managed to solve the key issue - After a lot of tinkering with the rounded off screws, I managed to remove the ignition and take it to a local locksmith. He half laughed/half scowled when I gave it to him but I think I caught him at a quiet time and seemed in the mood for a challenge. It took him a full hour but he managed to pick it apart and dismantle to the point he could get access to the barrel, and then although he didn;t have a key that would fit, we found one that could be ground down to fit and then he cut it....SUCCESS! I now have working keys and all the locks work now

I popped the battery in, hotwired it (and actually trying to get the two ignition line connectors back together was one of the hardest things in this entire process - they have no excess cable, only just enough to fit together and in the end, I had to make a tool out of a coat hanger to pull the upper connector down enough to push the lower one in).

I finally went for my first ride a few hours ago! The bike feels solid and was able to go about 25mph!!!

One thing i realized though: Earlier on in this thread and the other thread made by powersupply, there was a problem talked about where the throttle cuts out randomly.....

.........it isn't random! It's some kind of safety mechanism built in to the brakes and controller. Basically, if you're cruising and slow down or come to a stop, you HAVE to pump the rear brake lever to get power again to the mnotor. It's unbelievably dumb and annoying but once I realized it, I can reproduce it every single time without fail and have just had to build it on to my driving style. I have a feeling that if I replace the controller, it will no longer be a problem but I can live with it for now.

I wanted to thank all that have contributed to this thread for my education and getting another ebike successfully back on the road