waste of time. don't bother.

[emoped]

Really nice stealthy builds ..... Congrats. 8)

 

[Dlogic]

I bet your bikes are all street legal. After all here in Germany we´re only allowed to use a maximum of 250 watts. Furthermore you need a sensor on the bikes cranks, that only allow you to use the electric motor while peadling. Yep, that´s how it is. I´m still hoping the cops will never stop me, cause then the trouble would really hit me.

What catches my eye on your bikes is that you´ve hidden the electrical stuff really well. Also the hub motor appears to be very small in diameter. That´s another way of making the bike stealthy. Good job.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Just did some more reading about the jump leads.

I am not saying that this pertains to my jump leads, but a lot of jump leads seem to be made from a copper-coated, aluminium core stranded wire.

This would explain their non-magnetic, and flexible properties- apparently typical of aluminium, which is extremely malleable and therefore easy to extrude into stranded form.

Furthermore it explains the green flame.

However with Alminium being an excellent conductor, with rated conductivity of over 60% that of copper, I wonder if this will be a problem, considering also that I am using the shim in addition.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Well, to test if they are copper colored steel you can use a magnet. For other tests you can use different acids. Or even just try soldering it.

If it will solder easily it is probably mostly copper, at a guess.

If you have PCB etchant you can see how much of the end of a braid begins to be eaten away, or if it doesn't react or reacts differently than you know PCB copper to do.

Heating a strand or two in flame should "burn" green.

Probably a few other ideas could be had by looking at Wikipedia for the physical properties of copper.

Aluminium Core, Copper Coated appears to be commonplace. Not perfect, but not fatal either.

 

[texaspyro]

If you have PCB etchant you can see how much of the end of a braid begins to be eaten away, or if it doesn't react or reacts differently than you know PCB copper to do.

Ferric chloride etchant will dissolve aluminum MUCH faster than copper... pretty much instantaneously.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

If you have PCB etchant you can see how much of the end of a braid begins to be eaten away, or if it doesn't react or reacts differently than you know PCB copper to do.

Ferric chloride etchant will dissolve aluminum MUCH faster than copper... pretty much instantaneously.

I don't doubt it. That said I have pretty much settled on the established routine here. Nickel tabs, copper-coated wire and pure copper shim cannot conduct the current in question then it can all go to hell. I don't feel like spending more money on stuff to find out just how good my jump leads are.

 

[Anonymous]

100Amps will come out just fine, this is excellent. don't worry. don't feel your project's been deterred by anything, I'm certain it's not aluminium, it's probably a copper alloy of some sort, but now that you've tabbed it with the copper sheeting you've got 0 to worry about. finish it and get your awesome project on the road and don't worry about it.
you need to TRY it now, don't worry about details, just set it on the road and turn it on

best wishes

If you have PCB etchant you can see how much of the end of a braid begins to be eaten away, or if it doesn't react or reacts differently than you know PCB copper to do.

Ferric chloride etchant will dissolve aluminum MUCH faster than copper... pretty much instantaneously.

I don't doubt it. That said I have pretty much settled on the established routine here. Nickel tabs, copper-coated wire and pure copper shim cannot conduct the current in question then it can all go to hell. I don't feel like spending more money on stuff to find out just how good my jump leads are.

 

[Anonymous]

Dear Wolf,
I Wanted to ask your advice on solar panels for the old ebike.
I've looked at several options, andfigure I needed a minimum of 300mah of charge flowing into each cell.
Is there a solar panel solution that can recharge at 3.6v at around 4watts, have you found anything like this?

Depends on the oxide. Titanium dioxide is not a great electrical insulator and silver oxide is definitely conductive. Copper oxide is not a complete insulator either, and may be a fairly good conductor at least when moisture is present, based on problems I've fixed in things with corrosion.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Ha ha...I wish. I have really only one problem- building the 72v 22Ah battery into the frame in a satisfactory fashion.

Right now I am thinking of using a wider spindle to give me crank clearance.

Unfortunately I have hit a funding impasse and right now am going to dedicate my time to thinking of ways to finish out the project.

I also want to paint my hub motor. Any ideas, anyone?

Cheers for all the feedback and hints.

 

[amberwolf]

I Wanted to ask your advice on solar panels for the old ebike.
I've looked at several options, andfigure I needed a minimum of 300mah of charge flowing into each cell.
Is there a solar panel solution that can recharge at 3.6v at around 4watts, have you found anything like this?

I haven't directly looked into any solar options in a while; the only ones I have myself are a stack of small cells off of calculators and the like, and a couple of 1-square-foot cells, and then a little board with a bunch of 2-square-inch cells wired up in an array of some sort (from a prototype for something, don't know what, came in a scrap pile). They're all just bare cells, no enclosures, and all but the calculator cells are probably at least 20 years old. I suspect the array is 30 or 40.

That said, the 1-sq-foot cells produce nominally 12V, around 14-15V at noon on a sunny day here in Phoenix, at a few hundred mA.

If you had the same cells, then for each 3 cells you'd need one square foot of panel, under the same lighting conditions. Unless you are tracking the sun you would get much less power at other times than noon, although angling the panels at a compromise across the sun's arc will help (like typical roof-mounted ones are).

Newer cells are probably better, so could provide better power density, but given that your lighting conditions are probably not nearly as good as here, would likely end up simply giving you about the same (maybe worse) power density.

So for 16s, you'd probably need at least 5 or 6 square feet of panel. Kind of a lot to carry on a bike, if you're talking about charging the bike from it portably.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I Wanted to ask your advice on solar panels for the old ebike.
I've looked at several options, andfigure I needed a minimum of 300mah of charge flowing into each cell.
Is there a solar panel solution that can recharge at 3.6v at around 4watts, have you found anything like this?

I haven't directly looked into any solar options in a while; the only ones I have myself are a stack of small cells off of calculators and the like, and a couple of 1-square-foot cells, and then a little board with a bunch of 2-square-inch cells wired up in an array of some sort (from a prototype for something, don't know what, came in a scrap pile). They're all just bare cells, no enclosures, and all but the calculator cells are probably at least 20 years old. I suspect the array is 30 or 40.

That said, the 1-sq-foot cells produce nominally 12V, around 14-15V at noon on a sunny day here in Phoenix, at a few hundred mA.

If you had the same cells, then for each 3 cells you'd need one square foot of panel, under the same lighting conditions. Unless you are tracking the sun you would get much less power at other times than noon, although angling the panels at a compromise across the sun's arc will help (like typical roof-mounted ones are).

Newer cells are probably better, so could provide better power density, but given that your lighting conditions are probably not nearly as good as here, would likely end up simply giving you about the same (maybe worse) power density.

So for 16s, you'd probably need at least 5 or 6 square feet of panel. Kind of a lot to carry on a bike, if you're talking about charging the bike from it portably.

Maybe he could arrange them into a large rectangle and hope the wind catches it..........I was on a roof once with a piece of plywood which measured around 5 foot by 5 foot and the wind caught it....damn. No need for legs when you have one of them and the wind catches it.

 

[Anonymous]

what do you think of

http://www.cleantechreading.com/transport/student-upcycles-solar-powered-motorcycle
Powerfilm MPT3.6-150 (100mA @ 3.6V) Mini Solar Panel
http://www.just-solarpanels.co.uk/powerfilm-mpt36-150-100ma-36v-mini-solar-panel-i34.html
specs:
100ma at 3.6v?
that would be in optimal lighting conditions..wouldn't it?
I'm not going to put anything big on the bike, I'm thinking of using 16 small strips of solar panelling on the bodywork, it'll help balance charge the cells... it's also a free energy source.
I'll cover it with tarpauline covering to keep it waterproofed... clear waterproof... allows the sunlight in, should be breakproof, so 16s ... to recharge, at 75 x 150mm....
1.8m2 required.... hopefully I can find enough space on that bike... i'm sure i will.

So for 16s, you'd probably need at least 5 or 6 square feet of panel. Kind of a lot to carry on a bike, if you're talking about charging the bike from it portably.

Maybe he could arrange them into a large rectangle and hope the wind catches it..........I was on a roof once with a piece of plywood which measured around 5 foot by 5 foot and the wind caught it....damn. No need for legs when you have one of them and the wind catches it.

 

[Anonymous]

:wink:

I have to agree with Black Arrow. Between the low grade bike and the ghetto mount it looks like a good thing that it won't run.

 

[el_walto]

I'm not going to, I've come across many a cheap nicad toy plugged into a power adapter, while that idea is going too far with nicd, I think doing this with konion cells will be fine.
I am pretty sure a good cheap laptop charger hardwired to the fatpacks should result in overjoyment
I'm not building 9 bikes for myself, I thought I'd build one, then two, then four, then finally 9 for the rest of the group to keep them happy, they'll do the charging, at least it's spreading ebikes around

I'm not sure how you're going to find the time to properly charge 9 batteries let alone, maintain and, as needed, repair that many bikes.

It's great that you are so enthusiastic about ebikes, but your experiment is going to lead to everyone involved being discouraged. You simply are not throwing enough money at the problem.

It is not possible to build 9 ebike kits for $1350. I'll be shocked if you end up with 9 working ebikes for $3000 within the next 12 months.

At minimum people need a plug and play solution, you can't have them exploding batteries because they are too cheap to spend $20 on a normal charger.
6S lipo and chargers from hobby king.
or a batch of 24v 10Ah battery from ping.
or 2x 12v sla with 24v charger (local to avoid shipping)

 

[Ariane]

:wink:

I have to agree with Black Arrow. Between the low grade bike and the ghetto mount it looks like a good thing that it won't run.

I have change my mind and this ebike looks like fun to run, i like this insane power output and gear change. :wink:

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[spinningmagnets]

IMHO, the cheapest solution might be a push-trailer. Look at the "Score" thread and he still has a lot of stand-up scooter parts, 350W brushed motors, brushed controllers, throttles, chargers, etc. I once made a push trailer from a $7 used 20" BMX bike (also can use an 18" or 16" bike). And for the trailer frame, I bought a used $5 dolley (box-cart?), both from the thrift store. I made the chainring adapter disc from the bottom of a $2 skillet.

the "Score" thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20921

350W is not a powerhouse, but gear-reduced by cheap used bike parts it shouldnt overheat as long as you don't try to gear it for speed. 12-mph OK? Heres one example:

 

[Anonymous]

I'm considering starting with an Opensource Parts list

For argument's sake, I'm going to use the cheapest sources I can possibly find for:

Motor 350watt $20 each
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/DCM-1353/24-VDC-350W-MOTOR-11-TOOTH-24-WIRE/1.html

Switch 3GBP
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GREEN-LED-Toggle-Switch-20A-12v-max-post-1-/310264705205?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item483d37b0b5#ht_549wt_1140

8AWG cable (basic power cable) 2.47GBP per meter
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-Red-power-8-Gauge-cable-10mm2-PER-METER-/160490003823?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Terminals_Cabling_ET&hash=item255df31d6f#ht_529wt_906

Chain (strong bicycle chain, no name)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370208674246&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_922

charger 6.99 for a 19.5v 4.1a charger.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/19-5V-4-1A-Power-Charger-Adapter-Sony-VAIO-PCGA-AC19V3-/250634961819?pt=UK_Computing_LaptopAccessories_PowerSupplies&hash=item3a5b02039b

battery 19.8v 4.5ah
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10311

sprocket
any standard bicycle small sprocket 20T
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20-TOOTH-SILVER-STURMEY-ARCHER-SPROCKET-COG-/220555532969?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item335a225aa9#ht_500wt_922

The one thing I can't find is a 9tooth motor sprocket that fits bicycle chain? would appreciate any help

I'm pretty sure the idea is that he won't be doing it; that they're to belong to others after the holidays.

 

[jdcburg]

You could look at TNC http://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES about 3/4 of the way down the page. Might take some cobbing to make it fit that motor - jd

 

[Anonymous]

I found this, wanted to ask if it's any good for a no-prebuilding solution. looks like a good deal
it's rated for ... 13horsepower?!


here's what they say

Specially designed for electric bike application with fast speed and extended range.
- Package contains 16X GBS LFP20AHA cells,
16x EPS balancers and a matching charger.
- Capacity: 1.02 kWh; Voltage range: 44.8-58.2 V.
- 1 year limited warranty included with package purchase.


Cell Capacity (Ah) 20
No. of Cells 16
Total Capacity (kWh) 1.02
Max Power (hp) 13.7
Max Voltage (V) 58.2
Nominal Voltage (V) 51.2
Min Voltage (V) 44.8
Battery Weight (lbs) 26.4

Anyone got any experience with these?

http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=27_29&products_id=124

 

[yopappamon]

I have these cells, without the balancers. Great batteries. Kind of bulky, make sure you have room for them. 2c discharge, 40 amps plenty for most applications.

I would recommend just buying their cells, $120 per pack of 4, then get a bms and charger from high tek bikes.

 

[Samba]

They look like Sky Energy / CALB batteries - but thats just from the color. Same site was on my favorites for selling a similar Thundersky package which they now refer to the GBS package instead.

If you look up GBS its a sparse website but calls them LiFeMnPo.

They are packaged with EPS's 'balancer' which looks like a cell-by-cell battery protection circuit but it sounds like they start directing some charge current around the cell when it reaches 3.7v - to faster charge those cells that haven't yet reached 3.7v and balance the pack.

They sell the same 4s1p 20ah in-a-box without the balancers and charger too - I was looking last night. 252WH @ $120 = $0.47 per WH. Nice price.

I'd love to hear if anyone's used their balancers, whether they are the same as CALB cells, whether they are any better than thundersky's at 40 degrees F
They also have plain and fancy versions of the electronics - +$100 and you get a LCD display - But its to carry on the bike like a cellmon/wattmeter? or it belongs with the charger? I don't know - so I wonder if its worth the extra hundred?

 

[Samba]

I have these cells, without the balancers. Great batteries. Kind of bulky, make sure you have room for them. 2c discharge, 40 amps plenty for most applications.

I would recommend just buying their cells, $120 per pack of 4, then get a bms and charger from high tek bikes.

I was wondering - if they mind being used sideways? the bulk would be less painful for me if they were 4" high instead of 8" high and 4" wide. Did you get better info with the cells?

 

[yopappamon]

I have these cells, without the balancers. Great batteries. Kind of bulky, make sure you have room for them. 2c discharge, 40 amps plenty for most applications.

I would recommend just buying their cells, $120 per pack of 4, then get a bms and charger from high tek bikes.

I was wondering - if they mind being used sideways? the bulk would be less painful for me if they were 4" high instead of 8" high and 4" wide. Did you get better info with the cells?

I have one bike with them on the sides. Seem to be fine. I didn't get any additional info with them. They are thunder sky's.

 

[dumbass]

I also run these cells (without balancers) for the past 2 years 2 24v 20ah packs (16 cells). Of course I removed them from the 4 pack cases and built my own cases to ease mounting to my bike. The great thing is you can easily replace 1cell in your pack. The bad thing is you can't buy only 1 replacement cell. This is something Elite Power needs to correct.

bob

 

[BLUESTREAK]

I have one 60volt 20ah set up on my wifes meridian trike and it has the (E-BIKEKIT.COM) 6x10 9C and will do 25mph. also I have a 72volt20ah pack on my meridian trike and it does 31-32mph on flat ground running a x5306. All my cells have the balancers and thay work just great.I would recomend them to any one that has a lot of room on their bike. I bought a spare single battery just in case I lose a cell this gives me (4 spares).