What happened to Nikola One Semi?

[Hillhater]

Sure it is different , but the point is Diesels can also be converted to CNG relatively easily/cheaply ...to reduce emmissions which is the primary objective.
This is existing technology with trucks already operating using CNG and a fuel distribution network being established.

 

[cricketo]

Sure it is different , but the point is Diesels can also be converted to CNG relatively easily/cheaply ...to reduce emmissions which is the primary objective.
This is existing technology with trucks already operating using CNG and a fuel distribution network being established.

quote :

Compression Ratio: A typical diesel engine has a compression ratio of between 16 and 18 to 1. CNG usually works best between 10 and 12; so new or modified pistons are required, with an appropriately shaped combustion chamber to allow proper air-fuel mixing.

Spark Plugs: Diesels don’t have spark plugs; instead they have diesel fuel injectors. A diesel conversion replaces the injector with a spark plug and may also require an insert to go through the valve cover – depending on the engine. Spark plug wear is a common problem, and the high compression ratio and use of gaseous fuel requires higher spark voltage than a petrol car.

Valves: Natural Gas is a dry fuel so valve seats in a converted engine need to be hardened to prevent abnormal wear. Older engines need valve guide seals to prevent engine vacuum from drawing oil into the combustion chamber.

Thermal Issues: Spark ignited engines run hotter than diesels. Such engines may require upgraded thermal management components, including larger oil coolers, larger radiators, and heat shields around exhaust components.

Catalytic Converter: A catalyst will generally be required to meet emission regulations. The exception is lean-burn engines, which, if carefully engineered, can meet certain emissions targets without a converter.

Engine Management System: Your choice will depend on the exhaust emissions requirements, efficiency targets, durability expectations, technology level of the vehicle and peripheral device control requirements such as cruise control, power take-off, automatic transmissions etc. AFS produces a range of products or can custom design for these varying requirements.

 

[Hillhater]

I never said it was as simple as pulling up at a different fuel bowser..!
....but the fact is it is existing technology , a company could today buy a fleet of CNG fueled trucks if they had the motivation to. Or an existing truck(s) could be "repowered" with CNG ..if desired.
These are currently available options for cleaning up diesel emmissions whilst we wait for the EV show to get its act together and get to the same point of availability ..(10-20 yrs ?)

 

[cricketo]

I never said it was as simple as pulling up at a different fuel bowser..!
....but the fact is it is existing technology , a company could today buy a fleet of CNG fueled trucks if they had the motivation to. Or an existing truck(s) could be "repowered" with CNG ..if desired.
These are currently available options for cleaning up diesel emmissions whilst we wait for the EV show to get its act together and get to the same point of availability ..(10-20 yrs ?)

Then we also need to talk about energy density. Is it possible to get the same HP output from such converted engine ? How much CNG can you pack up (and thus what range), given Methane is significantly more difficult compress than say Propane.

Garbage trucks and city buses already run on CNG. While I'm not aware of battery powered garbage trucks, there are several battery powered buses already available. So I think you're missing the scope of the problem here.

 

[Hillhater]

You are "sweating on details". that have already been addressed.
Most haulage rig manufacturers offer CNG powered trucks, it is an established option.
https://www.truckinginfo.com/304207/cng-trucks-offer-roi-on-multiple-fronts
Maybe not the "ultimate" solution for a totally renewable fuel source, but it does avoid the diesel issues, and offer a cleaner emmissions solution until the limitations holding back EV trucking can be resolved.

 

[cricketo]

You are "sweating on details". that have already been addressed.
Most haulage rig manufacturers offer CNG powered trucks, it is an established option.
https://www.truckinginfo.com/304207/cng-trucks-offer-roi-on-multiple-fronts
Maybe not the "ultimate" solution for a totally renewable fuel source, but it does avoid the diesel issues, and offer a cleaner emmissions solution until the limitations holding back EV trucking can be resolved.

Sounds good then.

 

[macribs]

In the late 90's we started to get a shift from regular gas or diesel 4x4 trucks to get em rebuild kits that allowed for running on LNG(?) gas.(can't really remember the type of liquid gas) Them kits was about 3.000-4.000 $, plus installation fee. The tank was huge, like it ate half the bed on a 4x4 or the entire rear seat. So it required a lot of real estate. The price per gallon was about half of diesel cost, but the price per mile was about the same because the engines used almost twice the amount of fuel compared to a diesel. Also the network of filling stations was not great. All those things combined and a decade later the liquid gas quest was almost over, people stopped asking for it and now you hardly don't see those rebuilds anymore. Never drove one myself so I don't have first hand info, just saying what I heard and read about back when.

I rather see any ready made solution that addresses the primary concerns about smog and particles that is sold ready to ride over the counter with warranty and a pre build refueling network then see another liquid gas effort tank. Companies are throwing big money at Nikola and orders are rolling in. Hopefully that will translate to something that will be available within a few years. A product that is ready to run after purchase, backed with a warranty and put together with enough attention to quality control so that professional customers like freight companies can feel secure enough to start making the green change.

If someone come along with a different plan then H2 that are able to attract the needed funds to make things happen and that will work out the details regarding filling stations, warranties etc I will welcome that too. Because, lets face it. We are looking at interim solution until batteries alone can give us what we are after. Smog and particle free transportation of goods.

 

[Hillhater]

Most of the taxis in Australian cities used to be LPG fueled, and a lot of commercial vehicles, busses, fork lifts, etc also use Lpg or CNG.
But those taxis were all locally built sedans (Ford & GM) who offered OEM LPG options , or even dual fuel LPG+petrol, factory fitted, warranty etc.
You could also get a subsidised lpg conversion on any domestic petrol car.
Most service stations had LPG pumps, and price was half petrol.
However, when the local Auto makers all shut up shop, taxis started to switch over to Hybrids (Toyota Camry is the go to), and then UBER started also such that few LPG taxis remain, AND the Govmt removed the subsidies for lpg conversions. !
Even the bus fleets seem to be reverting back to diesel (cost ?) and as a result LPG pumps in service stations are becoming rarer.
at a time when emmissions are a hot topic worldwide..... It seems like a lost oportunity to me

 

[cricketo]

Even the bus fleets seem to be reverting back to diesel (cost ?) and as a result LPG pumps in service stations are becoming rarer.
at a time when emmissions are a hot topic worldwide..... It seems like a lost oportunity to me

US is kind of hilarious when it comes to LPG. It's available at nearly every other gas station, every RV place, and many unexpected locations... for BBQ-style cylinders. Fueling LPG into vehicles ? Not so much.

Either way, it is pretty hilarious we're talking fossils on an EV-dedicated resource.

 

[Punx0r]

Electric garbage trucks are a thing - just tap it into google

 

[macribs]

LNG is what is most common in EU. And LNG is clean gas, but when used for fuel in a diesel truck engine it is not only LNG. They also use diesel.

To store LNG most effective the gas is super chilled. Like minus 125 C or something and under pressure. Before combustion gas is heated and transforms from liquid back to gas. But in order to get ignition they use a small dose of of diesel. Which we know is the fuel satan prefer. LNG is not 100% clean fuel but of the fossile fuel choices it is the the better choice. CO2 is still there, yes much less then regular pump gas or diesel but still there. Also those particles we don't like are there. And the injection of the small part of diesel does not help. For a semi truck that might run 100 000 km in year it adds up.

Longevity has been an issue for some. Pistons, bearings etc. Why I don't know. Internal temperature, less lubrication from LNG then from diesel? Not sure. Over time that likely will change.

But the problem with LNG is still this, it is not green and it is not zero emission. It is greener then diesel but is it green enough? We have all been pretty laid back regarding the emissions and global warming. Not willing to the take the plunge ourselves. Hpoing that other will change their ways rather then us actually contribute with some heavy lifting.

I think it is about time now to man up. Sure H2 is an interim solution and the fact that hydrogen is not efficient because we use more energy making hydrogen then we get back during use of hydrogen. But at least it can be transformed in a green matter. And the end result is zero emission. Personally I salute Nikolai and really hope they are able to bring their products to market. And I cross my fingers that both companies that buy tractor trucks and their customers who buy their service will see the value in zero emissions locally.

If someone would like to run LNG or other forms of liquid gas that is fine, it is still better then diesel. The most important thing is that we do something, and one choice does not make the other wrong. I think they can live side by side until we get next gen battery tech and move away from ICE engines also in heavy haulers and tractor trucks.

 

[Hillhater]

Thread revival !!!
Well, the Nikola saga rolls on...but the road is getting bumpy !
https://youtu.be/hikQrM8pk1A
[youtube]hikQrM8pk1A[/youtube]
And..
[youtube]PYuP33HAwNw[/youtube]

But WTF ??..
GM buying int this con artist ?..what ever happened to “Due Dilligence” ?..
Or..maybe they deserve each other.

 

[boars]

But WTF ??..
GM buying int this con artist ?..what ever happened to “Due Dilligence” ?..
Or..maybe they deserve each other.

Uh they did the figures... and well the money will (potentially) flow out of Nikola into GM, not the other way around.
Hardly buying into them, just gives GM another potential revenue source.

There's little to no risk for GM, they're already walking down the path that Nikola wants them to.

Under the deal, Nikola will pay GM up to $700 million to cover the cost of building manufacturing capacity for Nikola's Badger truck. Nikola will then pay GM even more money to manufacture the vehicles on a cost-plus basis.

The battery-electric version of the Badger will be based on GM's Ultium battery platform, which GM will presumably sell to Nikola at a profit. Not only will the hydrogen version of the Badger be based on GM's Hydrotec fuel cell technology, but GM will also become the exclusive supplier of hydrogen fuel cells for Nikola's semi trucks (outside Europe) for a four-year period.

These are technologies that GM was planning to develop anyway, so the deal gives GM a chance to do it partly at another company's expense. Even if Nikola were to go out of business in a year or two, GM would gain valuable knowledge and experience—and might be able to use the Nikola-funded facilities to make its own pickup trucks.

Source: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/why-gm-is-sticking-with-nikola-despite-fraud-allegations/

Edit: do want to say that I think/agree Nikola do seem a bit dodgy though.
But the big expose was also released by a short seller (?) on their stock so I guess it's potentially dodgy reporting on a dodgy operator? :lol: Either way, it doesn't smell good.

Even still, GM might be able to snag up any decent IP when/if it all comes crumbling down. No loss to them really.

 

[Hillhater]

The party just got bigger...

The Justice Department has joined U.S. securities regulators in examining allegations that electric-truck startup Nikola Corp. NKLA -3.78% misled investors by making exaggerated claims about its technology, according to people familiar with the matter.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-probes-electric-truck-startup-nikola-over-claims-it-misled-investors-11600199462
Exaggerated claims ??....have they actually made a single working vehicle yet ?

 

[macribs]

Yeah just find your pop corn gentlemen and let ut see how this one plays out. I watched a Nikola video this summer, june or july I think. It was the Nikola founder showing off the truck, talking a lot about haters and trying to convince the whole world things where great. He didn't come off as an honest man, look up that video and you will see what I mean. All the time he tried to turn things around, taking the role of the weak party, saying everyone was just hating on them to try to win on short sale. Didn't much think of it anymore after I watched the video, then the report of fraudulent actions came a week or two ago.

I've had my doubts about Nikola for some time. Mostly because of Nikola changing strategy a lot. First they had ownership to several natural gas fields so they promised people who signed up Nikola should make cng turbine to charge batteries. 2000 hp. Then after several customers signed up Nikola changed strategy. Suddenly hydrogen was the way to go. Reducing max power to 1000 hp. This time also boosting their cost reduction of hydrogen. Along with their own proprietary tech that was state of the art. Turns out, it was all off the shelf. Nothing actually invented by them. Oh yeah and I forgot about the all BEV truck.

And now it turns Nikola in motion video was just rolling without power down a hill?

So much has changed over the course of Nikola. I think in 2016 or 17 they already had a deal with a factory. Then strategy changed, they should build a factory of at least make some of the parts. Then they should outsource everything.

They way I think this might turn out will be jail time for nikola founder. It seems they have mislead the whole world while money has been rolling in. Or maybe we are all just haters?

 

[boars]

The party just got bigger...

The Justice Department has joined U.S. securities regulators in examining allegations that electric-truck startup Nikola Corp. NKLA -3.78% misled investors by making exaggerated claims about its technology, according to people familiar with the matter.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-probes-electric-truck-startup-nikola-over-claims-it-misled-investors-11600199462
Exaggerated claims ??....have they actually made a single working vehicle yet ?

Apparently the Nikola 2 works.

So a single vehicle, sure.

No idea how it works though, hopefully not by towing it to the top of a hill.