What motor do I have and what controller should I buy?

[exMagic]

Can someone recognize this motor?

In the registration documents it stands 5000W motor
I think the name of this bike is "PDT SPRINT 5000W"

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[Hot Item] Electric Scooter 5000W 72V40AH Thunder

Motor: Brushless Brake: HUB Brake For Front Wheel Battery Type: Lithium Battery Frame Material: Aluminum/Alloy Certification: EEC Maximum Loading Capacity: ≥120kg

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One connector with thin wires was disconnected and another one was connected to the controller.

I am going to buy a new controller for this bike and I am wondering how to select the correct one.
I was thinking about Kelly KLS7245N 30V-72V 270A SEALED SINUSOIDAL BLDC CONTROLLER For 4000W-5000W Motor:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32893192803.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.368738daszgLWY&mp=1

Main question is:
Do I have 3 hall sensors? to me looks like, but I am not sure. This is my first project that size and I am not an expert

I have seen this scooter somewhere online with an 8000W motor. maybe this motor is capable of 8000W or even 10000W and the main limiting factor to 5000W was controller and battery?
What is the best way to find out? Should I open this motor and measure the resistance of something?

My plan is to go with 20S Lithium-ion battery pack, but maybe this motor can handle more? 21S 22S?

Thanks in advance for good advices.

 

[E-HP]

Main question is:
Do I have 3 hall sensors? to me looks like, but I am not sure. This is my first project that size and I am not an expert

My guess is that you have two sets of hall sensors (2 x 3), so 6 total. Some motors, mainly big ones, come with two sets so that if one fails, the second set can easily be plugged in to get the bike up and running again.

 

[dominik h]

Looks like the erider / thunder / masini sportivo motor.
Mine has the same style but bigger axle and double the phase wires and was sold as 8000W with a sevcon gen 4 in the masini extremo. At the moment I'm running it with 14kw peak power, but at the first test I had a bigger controller and was running up to 18kw.
The motor has two sets of hall Sensors, but no temperature sensor. With 21S and field weakening you can get close to 100km/h with this motor.
On the picture there is a QS60V5000W installed in my scooter, this motor has a higher kv and gets to 100km/h without field weakening.

You can easily run it with a MQCON / Sabvoton SVMC 72150 but for faster acceleration you need a bigger controller. At first I had installed a SVMC
72260 but it died while playing with the field weakening. My next step will be a Fardriver ND 72680 or 96850 depends on what I can fit in my scooter.

 

[dominik h]

Pics of the 8kw version, which was originally installed in my scooter and also is installed at the moment. In the next weeks I will change back to the QS60V5000W, because the tire is worn.

 

[exMagic]

@dominik h Thanks for your recomendation!
Fardriver ND84680 looks ok for my motor and budget, but here is my question:
Fardriver has a regen?
I am considering ND84680 or Kelly KLS7250N.
I have seen that you can setup regen level in Kelly but I am not sure if it is posible in Fardriver.
Basically, I would like to have some kind of one pedal driving like in the electric car, so when you release throttle then bike star to slow down and charge battery.
Can I accomplish that with Fardriver?
I see that into Fardriver I can put more voltage so more speed - nice, but I really don’t want to give up regen.

 

[dominik h]

Fardriver has also regen. You can change regen current in the software. But it has no variable regen like some Sabvoton can do.
If you stay with your 72V battery setup the ND72xxx line is enough. The Nd72xxx can work up to 88V.

I first bought a ND96850 because I wanted to ad a few cells, but changed my plans.
My scooter is fast enough I only want a better acceleration, and I do not know if I can fit the ND96850, therferore I bought the smaller ND72680.
So I will keep the ND96850 for a supermoto conversion.

I saw in your thread that your motor also has the double phase wires. In Germany there are a few of the single phase wire motors running, and they also can take the full power of a Sabvoton SVMC72150.
If you want a lot more power , then you should ad a temperature sensor to the motor windings, because this is the only thing that can prevent you from burned windings.

 

[exMagic]

Fardriver has also regen. You can change regen current in the software.

But how does it work in practice? If I set high regen current in the settings then I have strong regen/braking when releasing the throttle right? But if I release just half of the throttle then I have half of the braking force/regen?
sorry for basic question but I can't find info about it anywhere.

Oh man there are so many controllers to choose from I am so confused.
I am going to build a battery pack so I can go for as many cells in series as I want. So maybe I should go for the ND84xxx series to have the option to increase voltage some day? Definitely I will place a temp sensor into the motor before trying to push it to the limit. Maybe I can use wiring from the second set of hall sensors for this purpose?

 

[jan8102]

Ciao a tutti
sto costruendo una moto elettrica

Vorrei installare questo motore 12090 brushless freerchobby 15kw di picco con sensori hall.
Secondo voi è possibile farlo funzionare con un nd72680? È sufficiente?

 

[jan8102]

Allego foto

 

[dominik h]

The ND72680 can draw up to 350A from the battery and can give you 25kw.
The Fardriver can support 60° and 120° hall sensors.
You have to find out which hall sensore angel the motor has.

L'ND72680 può assorbire fino a 350 A dalla batteria e fornire 25 kW.
Il Fardriver può supportare sensori Hall da 60° e 120°.
Devi scoprire quale sensore angelo ha il motore.

 

[jan8102]

L'ND72680 può assorbire fino a 350 A dalla batteria e fornire 25 kW.
Il Fardriver può supportare i sensori Hall da 60° e 120°.
Devi scoprire quale sensore angelo ha il motore.

L'ND72680 può assorbire fino a 350 A dalla batteria e fornire 25 kW.
Il Fardriver può supportare i sensori Hall da 60° e 120°.
Devi scoprire quale sensore angelo ha io

L'ND72680 può assorbire fino a 350 A dalla batteria e fornire 25 kW.
Il Fardriver può supportare sensori Hall da 60° e 120°.
Devi scoprire quale sensore angelo ha il motore.

L'ND72680 può assorbire fino a 350 A dalla batteria e fornire 25 kW.
Il Fardriver può supportare i sensori Hall da 60° e 120°.
Devi scoprire quale sensore angelo ha il motore.

Purtroppo l'azienda non mi risponde e su internet non si trovano info su questi motori.... io ne ho uno uguale senza sensori hall.... potrebbe essere utile?

 

[jan8102]

Mi hanno risposto, il sensore è 120°

 

[dominik h]

So it should work with the fardriver.

 

[jan8102]

Quindi dovrebbe funzionare con il fardriver.

Si, però vorrei tanta affidabilità la prestazione è secondaria, secondo voi la nd72680 e troppo grande? È meglio che il controller sia più grande in modo che scaldi meno? Ma soprattutto che ne pensi del mio motore? Invio scheda tecnica

 

[dominik h]

You can always lower the limits in the controller software. After the first Auto learn my ND72680 ontroller made 12kw and then i turned the values up until 27kw and I burned the phase wires. Then I installed bigger phase wires and a temperature sensor in the motor winding. Now I run the controller with up to 22kw (270A boost battery current). In near future I will change from my 5kw to a 10kw hub motor and perhaps I will also have to upgrade to a bigger controller to release the full potential of the bigger motor. Because the 10kw motor with the 25mm² phase wires can take more than 600phase Amps for a few seconds, and I do already max out the phase current with the smaller motor during the start from a standstill.


I do not know your choosen motor but I think it is intended for an RC plane. I do not know if it is powerfull enough for a motorcycle or if it does not overheat to fast.

 

[jan8102]

S il motore che dico io e per parapendio quindi sono motori che vengono tenuti ad un regime alto per molto tempo, ecco perché sono praticamente tutti forati per raffreddare al massimo, ne ho uno addirittura raffreddato ad acqua dello stesso modello ma non ha i sensori e Devo installarli, ma la ditta non li fornisce. Il motore di per sé ha una spinta di 40kg e 15Nm di coppia quindi ha una bella potenza. L'unica noia è che va creata una staffa con cuscinetto per farlo lavorare con una catena visto che nasce per elica. Dalla scheda tecnica e dalla centralina che installo secondo te quanto posso ricavare in potenza?
tieni conto che il mio pacco batteria è un 20s Lion da 90 amp con 360 celle Samsung 21700 50E

 

[dominik h]

Hard to guess, but I think you can reach the 15kW that are mentioned in the Datasheet from the motor. How long , depends on how good you can cool the motor.
But when you already have a watercooled version of this motor, then why not think about the VESC controllers.
I think VESC can drive the motor without hall sensors, but I have not done anything with VESC, so I´m not really shure.

 

[jan8102]

H provato con un esc per parapendio ma non appena incontra un ostacolo tipo salita improvvisa ho accelerazione brusca si blocca e devi ritornare con l'acceleratore a zero per farlo ripartire

 

[dominik h]

A propeller has a fixed rpm/power curve. Low rpm means low tourque and low phase amps.
Perhaps the controller cuts out because of exceeding internal set limits.
Which controller did you use to test the watercooled motor?

I don´t know if a 2,8kg air cooled motor is enough or could be cooled enough for 7,5kW permanent.
For example the QS120 motor is rated 2kW and has 9kg 45Nm or the QS138 rated 3kW with 11kg weight and 55Nm.

 

[jan8102]

Sono d'accordo ma io ho questo motore e purtroppo in base agli spazi non ho altre alternative. L'azienda mi ha detto che si adatta a un gokart quindi penso anche a uno scooter. Sul peso è molto leggero in quanto sia il mozzo sia la carcassa esterna oltre ad avere grandi finestre di raffreddamento ha anche un mozzo piccolo. Per quanto riguarda il regime gira intorno ai 4000 giri, e comunque avendo pignone e corona posso fare girare l'elettrico a 4000 ed la base del termico (è una conversione) a 6000