Which hub or which mid drive

[Sguzman1o]

Hello people, I'm stuck. I want to build my first ebike but don't know which route to go down...have done a bit of research and come down to a few options..all quite different. The main thing the bikes gotta be able to do is PAS, so I can get a little workout out of it a few times a week too. I want the bike to be as light as possible and I want at least 35mph out of it. Oh yeah and 19 inch motocross rims. Here's the options I've come up with.

1.Mac motor 6t
2.bbshd
3.cyc x1 pro
4. Mxus 3k

With the Mac motor I dont know how much power I can put through it and what voltage to run it at, but read a post by Bertie from here showing his kona stinky with 19 inch rims and a Mac motor on it and I like it

The bbshd I would be running at 72v but lower power set on the controller for pas

Cyc x1 same or maybe 52/60v and use more amps

The mxus 3k. It doesn't make sense it being here, but I come from using a currus panther 5600w scooter and saw a video of this motor on a bike and was automatically interested. I've seen how much they weigh and from what I've read, heavy hub motors mess up handling as the bike would be rear heavy...and obviously pas would be a no go right? But let's just say I toss the exercise part out the window and just want a bike with good power to get me around, would anyone here who own this motor on a bike frame(not stealth etc) care to share their experience based on how it rides compared to a normal bike or if these things mess up handling.

Also if there are any other ideas people have I'd appreciate it if helps

 

[Chalo]

If you don't use motorcycle wheels and rims, you won't need as much power to get equal performance. Bicycle parts can do the speeds you're talking about more efficiently.

24 inch bicycle wheels with Maxxis Holy Roller or Kenda Kraze tires will do the job with less energy expended.

 

[donn]

You can pedal without PAS. I do. PAS is a throttle gimmick built into the bicycle's drive train. If you like it, fine, but you can use a throttle and also pedal as much as you want.

If you're going to ride around at 35mph, you should be wearing motorcycle jacket, boots, gloves and helmet. It isn't much fun pedaling with that stuff on. And a big battery, because it wastes a lot of juice - there's no way within human limits that you can help the motor significantly at that speed, even if you have the gearing for it.

 

[dogman dan]

Hmm, 35 mph is a bit fast for pedaling, but it can be done. Step one is finding a bike that has a frame that can accept a front chain ring that is in the size well above 48 teeth. One I built had a 56 tooth front gear. That's often getting into road bike type frames, which generally will never take a 2 inch tire, let alone a 19 inch moped rim and tire.

I'm not saying what you want cant be built, just that your desires don't fit into easy first bike territory. Compromises will make getting closer to what you want easier. The first one would be PAS. Sure, have it on the bike, but you can pedal and get lots of exercise on the bike without it, at lower speeds than 35 mph. The easy thing to try first, is build a bike that runs on pas to about 25 mph, then just use the throttle for times you want the full 35 mph.

And then there's the light part. If you set your goals to 25-30 mph, you can use a lighter mac motor or similar 500w rated geared motor. And they can be pushed to 35 mph too, but then you start getting into wattage that may overheat it, depending on your weight, the grade, the head wind, the weather, and the duration of running it on 2000w or so.

As for the big motor, which is the choice for a small electric motorcycle with pedals on it, NO, it will NOT handle like a bike. Not with a 25 pound or heavier rear wheel, and the larger, heavier battery aboard for longer duration riding at 35 mph. My experience, and needs, pushed me into longtail bikes for their ability to carry that battery. They handled great, and did not ride like a bike. But they rode better than mopeds or small scooters in my opinion. The best one I ever built was based on a schwinn cruiser frame, which I lengthened. See the builds in my signature for more. I could pedal it pretty fast, with a 52 tooth front ring, but no, not really at 35 mph. I liked it best at 60v, 18 s lipo batteries, and a 40 amps controller. Mostly I did ride it closer to 30 mph, spinning the pedals. At 25 mph I could push on the pedals more. But when I needed it, it did 35 mph with ease. It did not like 40 mph so much, a bit of wobble, so I ran it on 60 v instead of 72. No pas, I hate pas. But loving to pedal, I found a smart hand on the throttle worked best. The way to do it is pick a gear, like the highest one of course, then pedal your best comfortable cadence in that gear. Use the throttle to constantly vary your power so your speed and cadence stay constant whether up the hill or down.

So to sum it up, I'm saying build the big bike with the big hub motor. But forget about it riding like a bike, it won't, and enjoy the light motorcycle you just built.

Or, if you want a bike,, then build a lightweight, 25 mph capable bike with bike tires and the least size battery you need for short rides. 52v battery will work fine for this, but you might pick one that can handle 30 amps, so you don't have to be slow getting to 25 mph.

 

[E-HP]

Also if there are any other ideas people have I'd appreciate it if helps

What is your budget, what tools do you possess, and level of electrical knowledge?

 

[Sguzman1o]

Hi, sorry people...was super early and I had a bad migraine. Forgot to mention that I don't want to be pedalling to 35 mph I just want to be able comfortably reach that on throttle for atleast 2mins at a time and to be able pedal at normal bike speeds without a heavy motor demotivating me on the back. Would prefer both to be separate as once again Has anyone had experiences with the motors I've stated or other recommendations while pedalling at normal bike speed? With the 19 inch rims, i just liked the look of them and thought that they would handle/corner better at higher speeds...I read a few sad stories about bike tyres and cornering at high speeds. My budget is £2000, I have no tools and my electrical knowledge starts and ends at knowing watts = volts x amps.

 

[E-HP]

What is your donor bicycle?

 

[Chalo]

to be able pedal at normal bike speeds without a heavy motor demotivating me on the back.
[...]
With the 19 inch rims, i just liked the look of them and thought that they would handle/corner better at higher speeds...

I think you'll find pig-heavy, draggy motorcycle rims and tires to be far more demotivating than direct drive motor drag. They won't stick in a corner any better than appropriate bicycle tires would, because you won't have the weight or suspension of a motorcycle to work them as intended.

 

[999zip999]

What bike the most important thing.don't buy once you figure out that you can fit your Mid drive or hub motor controller battery excetera excetera excetera.

 

[Sguzman1o]

Been looking at the kona stinky, commencal meta, scott genius mc50, couple specialized bikes for an under down tube mounted battery. Which bikes would you recommend?

 

[Chalo]

Been looking at the kona stinky, commencal meta, scott genius mc50, couple specialized bikes for an under down tube mounted battery. Which bikes would you recommend?

Why you wanna put your battery in harm's way?

 

[dogman dan]

Ok, now my advice is to ditch the motorcycle wheels. You don't wanna corner at 35 mph anyway. I don't, on a motorcycle. (90 degree street turns I mean.) You can easily lay down anything.

Bike tires, good ones, will be fine. Forget 35 mph. I still don't see why you really need it, unless you ARE building a small motorcycle. You build a motorcycle or a bicycle. Both is not working, unless you don't care about a big heavy rear motor, such as a cargo bike. Cargo bikes need the big ass motor just for the power, if they have the speed to, its not what the motor was chosen for. They just need the big motor for its power, and may be pedaled all day at 15 mph.

Now you are back to building a bicycle, and any of the lighter motors will do you great. Whether you go with a 500w rated rear geared motor or a mid drive depends on the bike you choose. Some bikes just fit a hub motor better than a mid drive . The smaller motors will all do 27-30 mph on 52v and that is fast enough for bike riding. You don't need motorcycle tires and rims to pedal your bike fast, 20-25 mph, enjoying the ride with a big ass grin on your face. And on regular bike tires, you can still blast around the corners at 25 mph. You'll only crash if you can't ride.

 

[markz]

After a few rides on a non electric hybrid bicycle, I was amazed at how light normal bicycles are.
I will add, that having a properly sized frame does wonders. I always thought it was to large, being a XXL frame but the riding position with an added 4" rise handle bar is amazing, with tons of room for the battery inside the triangle.

I threw on my Leaf 1500W laced in 26" on the 700Cx45 bike, for a few days of riding and had to take the rear brake V-brake pads off as they were hitting the 26 tire, but I ended up breaking the Tourney RD. Since been replaced a few days ago, which is why I was riding it.

Back to the lightness factor, I could lift the front up over a curb easily, swing the bike around with no effort. Who knows how heavy my fat bike was with 2 batteries and a 35H dd hub.

I may just build it for a pedal assist, but winters coming and I dont want to spend money. :lol:
I need to save for, oh wait for it, hehehehehehehe a gas gussling V8, please dont exile me :lol:
The good news is I still have my Cyclone 4kw Axial mid drive motor that I had installed on my old 3x7 Townie Electra (26" tires)

On one hand, I do not want to dirty the bike by the way I used to build my own ebikes.

My dilemma is at 292lbs currently, how bad will the 500W "Bafang" small geared motors suck, even if I get to my goal of 250lbs, also if its to wimpy then I could just sell it right away and go MAC but then why not just stick with Leaf 1500W and just buy a front, which means more money spent. I'm not playing the rear hub game again and break spokes and get flats left right and center by relacing my rear Leaf into a 700C and following every single advice to build strong wheel.

It seems like forever I've been without my ebike. But I do got to get it going again. Hopefully my ramble has got me charged up (pardon the pun) enough to find the parts and start building.


Another option is BBSHD - I can't remember the physical size of the BBSHD (13-16lbs), but can anyone shed any light on the size difference between the BBSHD vs Cyclone 4kw Axial (which states weight 5.2Kg for 2-4kw)?
Might be a cleaner look, sell my Cyclone 4kw locally btw, and get BBSHD.

 

[biphaeboh]

mark it sounds like you have enough bikes and parts to put together a couple of e bikes. Maybe put together a good one and sell it, raise some cash for your V8!