Why never see metal cast around wound stators?

Galvanic corrosion would be possible between the indium and the nickel plated steel of the motor case but the copper wouldn’t be in contact as it would of course be insulated. Supposedly nickel will cover with oxides which should be removed for best thermal transfer but that seems nitpicking.


Indium.com have had enough of my questions and only have answers related to it’s common use. The tech help person was looking up galvanic corrosion while on the phone with me and it seemed new to her. I’m still wondering how this corrosion would go between cast indium around nickel as they’re pretty close on the chart. I always here galvanic corrosion needing an electrolyte but there would be no electrolyte maybe as they’re would be no gap between them, but I think the electrolyte is more so used as a pathway between the two metals and if they’re literally touching it wouldn’t be needed.

I could remove the nickel and be left with bare mild steel or I could get another finish put on the parts in the future if needed. Maybe I should use some flux, don’t know. It’s seeming with this super soft metal thermal expansion isn’t an issue and just possibly galvanic corrosion. But solder sticks for years so I think be good

Not the cheapest stuff at maybe 50 cents a gram.
 
flat tire said:
The real question is why we don't see this badass ultra high temp magnet wire...
Click to expand...

To me the real question is why do we still not have a cheap room temperature superconductor. Of course that will take a new discovery, while with no new discovery needed it's taken almost 10 of the 11 years I've been electric to finally start to see some meaningful advances in controllers, though the Chinese still aren't copying and selling the good stuff cheap. Had I known it would take the electronics guys this long, I would have done like Arlo1 and learned to make my own.
 
But I haven’t gotten the indium yet as I’m beyond broke. Definitely plan to do it since I haven’t found any info of anyone doing similar and fear of increased eddy currents seems not a big deal.

In my mind the controllers market has advanced a lot. Over the last maybe 5 years the Vesc was developed and there’s many cheap variants now. An esc running the same amount of voltage and amps and an foc program was like 3x more before as far as I could find. All the cheap vesc versions from China seem to have lots of fake bits. There’s a new cheap Vesc being designed by someone on here that seems really good and cheap. A room-temp semi conductor would be awesome for a motor but seems a lot to ask. We could all run tiny motors I think
 
Soon as the room temp super conductor becomes a reality at a price that's cheaper than a neo magnet then we will see some serious shit.

Think of the current handling capability of such a beast but does it still have a decent bemf I would have though no so even at high speed the torque load could rise and draw big big power uncontrolled by rpm and self limiting.
 
It is better to get thinner laminations!

Also, if you can find some (more like make some) square or triangle magnet wire, get way more copper fill and copper cross sectional area. Always good!

Then its all about heat management, so perhaps more metal, which adds more weight to soak up the heat to the cover plates. Then have ridged cover plates and also aluminum heat sinks between the flanges. Oh and dont forget your Statorade Fluid!
 
Ianhill said:
Soon as the room temp super conductor becomes a reality at a price that's cheaper than a neo magnet then we will see some serious shit.

Think of the current handling capability of such a beast but does it still have a decent bemf I would have though no so even at high speed the torque load could rise and draw big big power uncontrolled by rpm and self limiting.
Click to expand...
Id think it would have the same bemf as any other motor without superconducting. I’d have though induction of the conductor wouldn’t change
 
markz said:
It is better to get thinner laminations!

Also, if you can find some (more like make some) square or triangle magnet wire, get way more copper fill and copper cross sectional area. Always good!

Then its all about heat management, so perhaps more metal, which adds more weight to soak up the heat to the cover plates. Then have ridged cover plates and also aluminum heat sinks between the flanges. Oh and dont forget your Statorade Fluid!
Click to expand...
Maybe could fit more wire of different shapes and been meaning to try, or could get rid of heat with those methods...but a stator potted in a highly conductive material is a different method. The lams are thin as is and it’s a slow turner with low erpm. The thinner the lams the less iron there and more epoxy and even less ability to rid of heat. Of course ideal in other ways but don’t think thinner lamps are going to help much in this situation
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
markz said:
It is better to get thinner laminations!

Also, if you can find some (more like make some) square or triangle magnet wire, get way more copper fill and copper cross sectional area. Always good!

Then its all about heat management, so perhaps more metal, which adds more weight to soak up the heat to the cover plates. Then have ridged cover plates and also aluminum heat sinks between the flanges. Oh and dont forget your Statorade Fluid!
Click to expand...
Maybe could fit more wire of different shapes and been meaning to try, or could get rid of heat with those methods...but a stator potted in a highly conductive material is a different method. The lams are thin as is and it’s a slow turner with low erpm. The thinner the lams the less iron there and more epoxy and even less ability to rid of heat. Of course ideal in other ways but don’t think thinner lamps are going to help much in this situation
Click to expand...

A superconducting room temp motor will need both stator and rotor as coils to be able to dump high power without creating heat.
If there's permanent magents used then they will have a resistance across their surface and the eddys will build in them making the magnet the weak spot and not much improvement made.
If you spin an alternator without creating a magnetic field on it's rotor then there's no induction on the secondary and nothing is outputted only a perment magnet motor will create an output as its spun an alternator needs an input of power to create more on the output by using the engine to spin the rotor and add energy that's stolen from the crankshaft.
 
Alternator requires an additional voltage, and a sensorless controller. I have one on the workbench now, have a sensorless but its on my bike. Its just a project thats not high on the list..... yet. It will be an ebike on a crappy ole b.s.o. with a removable battery, and welded on alternator motor.

As for thinner laminations, I got no clue, but a search reveals....
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=90037&p=1445084&hilit=thinner+laminations#p1445084
the benefit of thinner laminations is really only present when you are running the motor at increasingly high eRPMs when eddie currents in the stator make up a good chunk of the stator losses.
Click to expand...
 
Ianhill said:
Hummina Shadeeba said:
markz said:
It is better to get thinner laminations!

Also, if you can find some (more like make some) square or triangle magnet wire, get way more copper fill and copper cross sectional area. Always good!

Then its all about heat management, so perhaps more metal, which adds more weight to soak up the heat to the cover plates. Then have ridged cover plates and also aluminum heat sinks between the flanges. Oh and dont forget your Statorade Fluid!
Click to expand...
Maybe could fit more wire of different shapes and been meaning to try, or could get rid of heat with those methods...but a stator potted in a highly conductive material is a different method. The lams are thin as is and it’s a slow turner with low erpm. The thinner the lams the less iron there and more epoxy and even less ability to rid of heat. Of course ideal in other ways but don’t think thinner lamps are going to help much in this situation
Click to expand...

A superconducting room temp motor will need both stator and rotor as coils to be able to dump high power without creating heat.
If there's permanent magents used then they will have a resistance across their surface and the eddys will build in them making the magnet the weak spot and not much improvement made.
If you spin an alternator without creating a magnetic field on it's rotor then there's no induction on the secondary and nothing is outputted only a perment magnet motor will create an output as its spun an alternator needs an input of power to create more on the output by using the engine to spin the rotor and add energy that's stolen from the crankshaft.
Click to expand...

I was imagining using a rotor with magnets and that would be easy and could use a common bldc esc. With super conducting wires on both sides I see what ur saying and I guess controlling them is not easy with just an esc and ud just add sensors. but...
why do you say the magnet version would be worse? I can imagine if the magnet poles were segments as thin as what would otherwise be wire there’d be the same losses. Or the eddy currents be a bit worse with the wire rotor as it’s more conductive. And then eddy currents in the conductors would cause skin effect, but then I guess that wouldn’t matter.


What stator has the strongest magnetic strength before saturating? Would go nice with the imaginary room temp super conductor
 
Remove the stator completely and have the coils opposing with a an air gap measured in the millionths it wouldn't have heat expansion as an issue so the tolerance can be high.

Looking at the super conductors we do have I see there's a limit to their current handling and frequency response before they start to create heat just like a normal conductor so in theory a room temp super conductor could create a motor that it's only losses are frictional so 98%+ the key then will be using magnetic floating bearings to get the 99.9% but even then it will have its high efficiency between a certain current and frequency range after that heat will be produced.
 
https://youtu.be/rQgiN-vpiNA
Shameless plug! But I do have a lot of experience making motors now if someone wants help. These have shown to be the most powerful and durable in the maket

If I get the bucks for sure I will try potting a stator in indium with a new aluminum hanger design that will make good contact between the hanger aluminum and indium. I’m broke at the moment. It’s not even expensive
 
What you end up using induim foil ?

It be nice to see the motor you have made ?
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
If I get the bucks for sure I will try potting a stator in indium with a new aluminum hanger design that will make good contact between the hanger aluminum and indium. I’m broke at the moment. It’s not even expensive
Click to expand...

The cheapest price I can find for physical indium right now is $475/kg. In my world, that's pretty expensive. Certainly expensive enough for me to want to use it to increase my battery instead of doing I'm not sure what to my motor.
 
If it takes maybe a half pound of indium to even increase the motor continuous output by 25% that’s a good deal to me. But I think it could do much better than that. One day.
 
Chalo said:
Hummina Shadeeba said:
If I get the bucks for sure I will try potting a stator in indium with a new aluminum hanger design that will make good contact between the hanger aluminum and indium. I’m broke at the moment. It’s not even expensive
Click to expand...

The cheapest price I can find for physical indium right now is $475/kg. In my world, that's pretty expensive. Certainly expensive enough for me to want to use it to increase my battery instead of doing I'm not sure what to my motor.
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this one!

$475 is the cost of a pretty decent motor and then double that by using indium. I think if I needed more motor performance, I'd just buy a bigger motor and keep most of that $475 for more battery pack.
 
I’m limited to this size motor. If I can get a high thermally conductive material between the windings and an external heatsink...it could have a continuous output of a much bigger motor. Peak power was never a problem even with motors I sold half this size. If I wasn’t so close to flat broke I’d actually do this and we could see. 0BE9E804-7E08-4C56-8FC2-D8354EB71F34.jpeg

https://youtu.be/RHfh6LFL0-A


But I could fill all voids in the windings and connect to and through this steel wall’s holes and then to aluminum with much less than a kilogram. I’m more so wondering will it eventually short from thermal expansion. I can use double build wire and also add another thin layer of winding epoxy between the two metals
Speaking of money if anyone is interested in some epic resins motor winding epoxy or permabond es550 magnet glue or abec11 centrax wheels I’ve got oodles. But no dollars.
 
1/4 pound of indium in the mail and heat resistant 60 duro silicone for the mold. gunna be fun.

cant find anywhere/anyone who's cast around motor windings but given how Indium is often used as a thermal interface material im thinking it'll be good.
 
I don't notice any diamagnetism with what I just got at room temp. im going to assume in that paper theyre talking of at extremely low temps and I can barely understand any of it.

I got the super 99.999% percent stuff. way overpriced at 4ozs for 130$ and of course as soon as I have it in hand I find this:
https://www.amazon.com/INDIUM-SOLDER-SN99-3-TRIANGLE-1-6lb/dp/B016N80P5M/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=
which is hella cheap in comparison.

It's 99.3% indium and the rest copper, although I fear its a big assumption and maybe some chemical things are going on ending at much worse thermal conductivity than either. at worst i'll start soldering with it.

I don't see a liv4naturalscience guy around here.
 
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