Would be Lyen buyers... be warned * RESOLVED *

[Ypedal]

This servers as a warning to would be buyers of products from Edward Lyen.

My story goes like this....

I emailed him about a controller and cycle analyst and the initial correspondence was great. He gave me advice as to which controller would best suite my needs. I made the payment and about a week later received it. Everything seems to be going great. This is where things started going downhill. I was having problems getting the product working so I emailed Edward about the issues and got "some" assistance, though at times was very slow or no response at all which prompted more emails sent. In the end I was asked to send the controller back along with my current controller (thank god I didn't send the current controller). I sent the controller back to him on May 30, he received it on June 4 and here we sit June 28 and I still do not have the controller returned. I have email him numerous time now and I either get no response or I just get excuses. Just this week I started asking him for a refund and now I getting no responses to my emails. I emailed him from another account saying I was looking to purchase a controller and he responded to that email. So this can only tell me one thing and that is he's just in this for the money, if you have problems...screw you, he doesn’t care.
Now I know there are going to be people who say I'm crazy and his service is great. Good for you, you got luck. I know of at least one other member here who has had the same problem dealing with Edward and I'm sure there's more.

So if you are thinking of doing any business with Edward Lyen, be careful. I have over 30 emails to prove this is anyone is interested.

ok.. after a slew of pm's, i am unlocking this thread, so that comments can be added by all implicated parties that wish to post..

I copied the original thread prior to unlocking it an have an original in the moderator area for reference if need be.. i hope it does not come to that..

i quote the above original content from the OP for reference as well.. so stories dont all of a sudden " change " :|

----

Bottom line here, no business is ever going to have 100% positive feedback, that's impossible, we need to retain reality here.. so good reviews as well as not so good reviews remain in the public eye and vendors are kept in check.. with reality ! :wink:

 

[dogman dan]

Hopefully the two will begin to communicate now. Would be nice to see rylie edit his OP title to "issue resolved" rather than be warned.

 

[richirich1113]

resolved

 

[amberwolf]

Bottom line here, no business is ever going to have 100% positive feedback, that's impossible, we need to retain reality here.. so good reviews as well as not so good reviews remain in the public eye and vendors are kept in check.. with reality ! :wink:

If I get a vote I think all such threads as Rylie's should remain public, so everyone interested in such things can see both sides of a story, and I *also* think Lyen (or any vendor involved in such an issue) should post to the thread themselves, and not be going behind the scenes to get it removed--if they want it remvoed they should ask for that publicly, so that everyone can also see how they feel about it, and why.

It would certainly influence *my* purchasing decisions: If a vendor replied with an explanation, or offer of solution, or whatever--anything reasonable given consideration of the OP's posts/problems/etc., I'd probably consider them a good vendor. If a vendor *never* replied to a thread with an explanation, I would possibly take them off my list to buy from. I would definitely do so if they were asking to have the thread removed because it was bad for business.

Unfortunately life is full of encounters with people that can't handle reality and the fact that stuff sometimes just doesn't work like it's supposed to, and that time someitmes gets eaten up by life-stuff and people cant' get back to you like they want to. Some other people can't handle reality and the fact that sometimes people break stuff and cant' fix it themselves, and wnat to blame it on someone else for whatever reason, and yell at the world when it doesn't get instantly fixed. I have probably been both kinds of person (my apologies to those on the other end), and certainly dealt with both kinds.

The good usually outweighs the bad, and as long as all the actions you take are for the good, and not trying to "hide" the bad, it'll come back in good ways to you. If you always try to "bury the bodies" of the bad stuff that happens, people will remember that, too, and wonder *why* you are hiding things, and the good will be outweighed by the suspicion of bad, even if bad does not actually exist.

 

[richirich1113]

resolved

 

[rylie]

This will be my one and only reply regarding this post. I am not interested in getting into “pissing matches” with people.

First I would like to clarify one thing that seems to have been taken the wrong way. When I said I had over 30 emails, it wasn’t all my emails. This was correspondence between Edward and me. These emails have been since I received the controller with said issue. Most of the more resent emails have been by me looking for updates, but no were given which lead to the frustration. I have no problem with his initial emails trying to help me fix the issues, although like others have pointed out replies can take a few days.

Second, I would like to address everyone attacked me personally saying I’m a newb and don’t know what I doing. To say “you did not have a clue what you were doing and damaged your new controller. you demanded he replace it free of charge” and “Nitwits like this guy pop up once in awhile. I've only had to deal with a few over the years, fortunately. Usually they burn something up due to incompetence, then demand a new replacement” is completely unwarranted. If you don’t have firsthand knowledge of the issue between the parties then you should keep your comments to yourself. If you want to post about your personal experience that’s fine, but don’t attack me.

For those who are interested in what the problem was, it only has about 50% of the power my current (cheapo GM controller) had. Which I did make a post about http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40192

Lastly, this post did seem to get a response from Edward and my controller has been repaired and it currently in transit. He also did a shunt mod and shipped it air mail for the delays which I do appreciate.

 

[ohzee]

Glad to hear it worked out. yea I posted my current issue in this thread , but retracted when I felt it would not be well received just as you summed it up.

 

[richirich1113]

Resolved

 

[dogman dan]

So rich. Let's just suppose you'd bought that controller from a reputable vendor from china, not some ebayer, but a company with a high profile website.

You think the CS would have been better? I doubt it. Starting with ship it back to china. Priority mail, that's fairly pricy.

But I forgot is not good! I've run a one man buisness myself, and at times you get slammed, that's just reality. I'm not sure what's up with sensorless controllers, from Lyens and from others. But I'll never buy another sensorless controller above 1000w myself.

Thank you for changing the thread from be warned, to be warned resolved Rylie. Many of us jumped to the conclusion you had 30 unanswered emails. Given that miscommunication, it gave a bad impression of what kind of customer you are. Every once in a while, every buisness comes across a customer from hell. And zillions of ranting emails is one of the tells. When I had a problem, I hoped he'd work with me, and he did, because I worked with him to lessen the hit his wallet took. In fact, I just ignored it for so long, eating the loss myself, that I was a bit suprised he gave me credit at all when I finally got around to sending it back. Sugar works better than salt.


I hope you have a fixed controller in the mail, and you will be as happy with it as many of us have been with our controllers from Lyens.

 

[richirich1113]

resolved

 

[cwah]

Did he charge you for repair cost and shipping cost of the controller?

 

[snellemin]

I just ordered a sensorless 6 fet controller from Lyen. Lets see if runs as well as the 12 fet sensorless I got from him before.

 

[nicobie]

Earlier in this thread someone (OP?) posted that Lyen was only in it for the money. Well I certainly hope so. Why else would anybody go to work if they didn't get paid for it. Do you expect the poor guy to starve so you can get stuff cheap?

As to why Edward doesn't reply in this thread, Would you like abuse heaped upon youself? Besides, he has a history of liking to reply by PM or email. Apparently he is a private type. Nothing the matter with that.

My history with Lyen has been excellent. Once I thought, by my screw-up, I had toasted one of his controllers. He said send it back. I did and he sent it back to me saying all was good with it and only charged me shipping. All the rest of the ones I have bought from him have been trouble free and he has responded to all my emails within 24 hours.

Buy from Edward Lyen with confidence.

 

[dogman dan]

I said the excuse " I forgot" is not good!

Just pointing out that it could have been worse, had you bought from china.

Again, I'll never buy another high powered sensorless controller, I'd ask about a refund, or a switch to a sensored controller.

If it will take him time to fix your old controller, he should send you a tested and working different one if in stock, and sell the other as a refurbished. Or just send you cash if you want that. I forgot is no excuse, and when reminded he should eat cash if thats what it takes to make you happy. And do it in 24 hours after he realized he forgot.

The motor runs fine with another controller? No plug backed out of the housing on your end of the wiring? It's possible ya know.

 

[Kingfish]

Either this thread or a related one was locked before I could comment; I’d like to now:

• Edward Lyen provides good controllers and product support. Given the experimentation I’ve applied to my machines - Edward has been very keen in our interactions to provide ideas and solutions in a timely manner. On my 2011 road trip he came out to personally greet me at the Sports Basement in the SF Presidio; we shared beers together and talked technical over lunch as only kindred ebikers could do. And he personally helped guide me across the Golden Gate from SF to Sausalito. I couldn’t ask for a better friend, an industry-friend than that! Given the opportunity, I would purchase from Edward again. 8)

With genuine sincere respect, KF

 

[richirich1113]

resolved

 

[dnmun]

.

 

[Ykick]

Nothing could be miss wired.

Famous last words. I've read all of the OP posts and some of yours - TBH it reads like people expecting a custom application to work as a turnkey unit design. Sorry, but that's not the way these type products work.

 

[richirich1113]

Nothing could be miss wired.

Famous last words. I've read all of the OP posts and some of yours - TBH it reads like people expecting a custom application to work as a turnkey unit design. Sorry, but that's not the way these type products work.

They do when you pay alot extra on top of the controller to have the connections match so there wont be that kind of problem. I guess you didnt read my posts thoughly enough before posting

 

[Arlo1]

I would never sell ebike controllers as a business... Lyen has a super tough job. Why he is doing it I don't understand. I have tried to ask info on his controllers and various questions and programing software only to get ignored. LYEN only wants to help the customers who pay. Little does he know I am here to help everyone and not steal his business if anything I would help him get more business. Its so frustrating to try to move forward as a group when one guy is trying to hold you up. As I develop my controller I have no intention to sell it to the ebike crowd because everyone (OR most everyone) is to cheep. But on the other hand If LYEN wanted to use my info and design and build a better controller to sell great. I am not really the guy for controller building anyway I just do it as a challenge and a hobby. We need more ebikes and they need to be cheep. In the world of business you can pic 2 of 3 options for service, 1 = fast 2 = cheep 3 = reliable but you can not have all 3! So in the end Lyen has a LOT of happy customers and I know I would not work as cheep as him and we need controllers at a good price. SO WE NEED LYEN!

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I would never sell ebike controllers as a business... Lyen has a super tough job. Why he is doing it I don't understand. I have tried to ask info on his controllers and various questions and programing software only to get ignored. LYEN only wants to help the customers who pay. Little does he know I am here to help everyone and not steal his business if anything I would help him get more business. Its so frustrating to try to move forward as a group when one guy is trying to hold you up. As I develop my controller I have no intention to sell it to the ebike crowd because everyone (OR most everyone) is to cheep. But on the other hand If LYEN wanted to use my info and design and build a better controller to sell great. I am not really the guy for controller building anyway I just do it as a challenge and a hobby. We need more ebikes and they need to be cheep. In the world of business you can pic 2 of 3 options for service, 1 = fast 2 = cheep 3 = reliable but you can not have all 3! So in the end Lyen has a LOT of happy customers and I know I would not work as cheep as him and we need controllers at a good price. SO WE NEED LYEN!

I wholeheartedly agree, Arlo, but would add that what Lyen is doing isn't manufacturing controllers, he is just buying Chinese controllers (Xiechang ones, also known colloquially as "Infineon" controllers, although they stopped using Infineon parts years ago) and then fitting better parts and wiring to them. I suspect he still buy bare board controllers them from Keywin Ge, as I and others have done. It's a good service he's providing for those prepared to pay extra for not having to do the mods to these cheap controllers themselves. I've built a few Xiechang controllers from bare boards (did another one yesterday) and it's a bit of work to add FETs, wiring, connectors etc, then use the Parameter Designer software to programme them, so the service Ed Lyen offers seems a fair one for the money. It may help if customers realise this is the basis of the service he provides, underneath the product names Ed Lyen gives his versions of these controllers.

The one thing that does slightly irk me it the point you've made, Arlo, about his unwillingness to share information publicly now. I've been on this forum for long enough to remember when Ed Lyen first came here and got a lot of info from people here, given freely, that has given him the basis for his business. The unwillingness to share further knowledge with us all now that he's using that information we gave freely to run a small business seems a bit off, off enough for me to take any opportunity to try and make public anything I do find out.

 

[hjns]

The one thing that does slightly irk me it the point you've made, Arlo, about his unwillingness to share information publicly now. I've been on this forum for long enough to remember when Ed Lyen first came here and got a lot of info from people here, given freely, that has given him the basis for his business. The unwillingness to share further knowledge with us all now that he's using that information we gave freely to run a small business seems a bit off, off enough for me to take any opportunity to try and make public anything I do find out.

Well, don't worry about the non-shared information. I bought one controller from Methods, and I bought two controllers from Lyen (2x a 12 FET 4115 board) and Lyen's "secret information" is definitely out here on the forum. For the software there already exists better versions both for Windows or more platform independent, and the explanation of the different parameters was originally compiled by Methods way back in his famous thread and has not really changed since. Even the character mistakes from Chinese to Chinglish are still there in the current software. Not that it really matters, though.

In my view, the real value of Lyen's "undisclosed" information is in the comprehensive compilation of all the available information, including color codes for some hall-phase combination of some of the most common DYI motors with "his" controller. It takes time to put that al together, everyone knows that it may be difficult to find the exact information that you need from the Forums if you do not know how to ask the right questions. Therefore, I do not mind him asking people to keep that information undisclosed.

Bottom line, I really do not think that any of the undisclosed information is not already discribed somewhere out there. And therefore, I do not think it will hold anyone back from developing whatever, or hold back adding new information to the community. However, I do understand why it irks, Jeremy!

I for one are still very happy with my controllers!

 

[NeilP]

if you call lyens service 'bad' then try buying stuff direct from china. Send it back, hope they get it, hope they look at it within 6 months, hope they sort it out within another 6, you might get a repaired unit/refund within 12 months. They're not all like that, but plenty are.

Yep too right...they are not all like that in China..some of them are really slow at responding


And some are really good...BMS battery.. i have now, 5 of their alloy shel chargers, from 240 Watt to 2 Kw . I send them an e-mail asking...What does this pot do? or similar..i usually get an e-mail reply within two days.

Lyen is a busy chap.. What does he do..spend 4 or more hours a day answering e-mails or spend time doing the work? I have sent him mails and not had a response for a few days or longer..but he does respond...not all of us live on the computer.we do have real lives too.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

In my view, the real value of Lyen's "undisclosed" information is in the comprehensive compilation of all the available information, including color codes for some hall-phase combination of some of the most common DYI motors with "his" controller. It takes time to put that al together, everyone knows that it may be difficult to find the exact information that you need from the Forums if you do not know how to ask the right questions. Therefore, I do not mind him asking people to keep that information undisclosed.

I agree, but all of that information came from here, some of it as a result of direct requests from him back when he first joined. My view is that it is unreasonable to be so secretive about information that was freely given by others, even to the extent of trying to make out there's something special or unique about it, when we all should know that there isn't.

Bottom line, I really do not think that any of the undisclosed information is not already discribed somewhere out there. And therefore, I do not think it will hold anyone back from developing whatever, or hold back adding new information to the community. However, I do understand why it irks, Jeremy!

I for one are still very happy with my controllers!

I'd be the the first to say that he offers a great service to those who don't wish to do the work themselves, and he doesn't over-charge for the work, either, in my view, as I know pretty much how long it takes to build a controller up from a bare board kit from Keywin Ge and what the price of decent quality FETs is. As you say, all the information is available in threads here, including the software and instructions for connecting controllers up. I just can't see the merit in pretending it's something secret or proprietary, when most will know that it isn't.

 

[NeilP]

packing, shipping, and quality of product has always been faultless for me. I have never had a single bad experience with him, I highly recommend dealing with him for a quality product and great service.

He is a packing obsessive...it will be packed perfectly..if anything he sends in damaged in transit..the shipping agent must have driven a fork lift truck over it

Three controllers from him now and repairs, plus loads of small parts..just excellent service