19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[teslanv]

I disagree, wholeheartedly.
Moto rims and tires front and back provide a substantially more stable and smoother ride. Especially at speeds above 50 mph.

 

[Jackrabbit]

To be honest I'm not overly worried about the police. I have set the Eco mode speed limit to 25kph and will only be using the bike on the road for short periods between trails. I looked at the UK government website and had a chassis plate made up with all the compliant information, provided I keep the speed down on the road I can't see why I'd have a problem. I'm going to wear my motocross helmet as I don't think a cycle helmet will provide anywhere near enough protection if I fall off at anything over 20mph. If it attracts too much attention so be it.

On the subject of a motorcycle wheel up front, the increased stability and reduced likelihood of punctures outweighs the negatives for me. It also looks much better to my eyes.

 

[Rix]

I disagree, wholeheartedly.
Moto rims and tires front and back provide a substantially more stable and smoother ride. Especially at speeds above 50 mph.

Tesla, you are correct, Moto rims and tires are more stable and smoother riding. And in the dirt, they work considerably better than MTB DH on the rough shit. Pinging on what Offroader said, I don't think the performance increase gained with a MC tire and rim on the front out weighs the weight penalty increase, in my very humble opinion. Again, not disputing what you said, but agree with you, the moto rim and tire on the front is considerably better than the best DH MTB option. Now on the rear, different story, I will never run any direct drive hub motor with anything but a MC tire and rim.

 

[Routybouty]

Are bicycle front hubs standardized? I bought a Hope 2 20mm front hub and I came up with these measurements for the JH 19" moped rim:



Look correct? Would 14ga be fine? I'm thinking the lighter the better.

 

[Motobikewheels]

You may want to change it to 3 cross

 

[Offroader]

I just wanted to add with the MC vs bicycle wheel that if you are going to run a bicycle wheel it is probably a must to get a heavier duro razorback.

The Duro razorback is built heavier and built much more robust than your average bicycle tire. When I spoke with Duro they say they use moto casing technology in the razorback. You can easily tell this because it weighs heavy at 3 lbs, and when comparing it to a normal bicycle wire bead tire the sidewalls are very stiff. Actually, I was considering using another wire bead tire but it wasn't nearly as tough as the Duro.

I'm using a 2.6 inch duro because I can't find the 3", but Duro is going to have another run on all these tires in the next couple of months and all sizes will be available again.

Since running the 26"x2.6" duro I keep it at around 19PSI and I have run this tire ridiculously hard, everything from hitting curbs hard, stairs hard, riding over large dead tree trunks, jumps, and this tire has not had any issues with pinch flats. The tire really has great traction off-road and has never slipped out once and I ride off-road a lot over wet grass, wood chipped trails, gravel roads. In over 2000 miles I only once had a slow leak which was easily repairable, but I also had my Shinko 241 on the rear go flat with a puncture. All this with 14/15 gauge spokes that never lost any tension.

I really should try out a MC tire on the front to finally compare, but the Duro razorback has worked so perfectly and is much lighter and easy to build and service. Everything I read points to a larger diameter skinnier tire on the front for off-road riding and the Duro fits perfectly for an Ebike. Honestly the Duro seems to be in between a bicycle tire and a MC tire and that is exactly what our Ebikes need. It also allows the front to have the proper height for geometry, so you don't lower your head tube angle and your bottom bracket height.

I don't want to bash you guys using the 19" MC tires, just saying why I choose the bicycle tire route for the front. I get about 2000 miles on my Duro razorback on the front, so you guys may get more miles out of your MC tire. But this isn't necessarily a good thing because a softer tire should allow for better traction and the MC may be just too hard for the front.

I have a shinko 241 17"x2.75" and a 17"x3.00" new tires and when I compare them the 2.75" is a hard compound and you can tell by squeezing the tire. The 3.00" version is much softer. If the 19"x2.75" is anything like the 17"x2.75" I think it may be a too hard compound a tire for the front of a ebike.

Duro says they are going to have another run of the 24x3.00 and 26x3.00 razorbacks by July. It is worth considering the 24x3.00 or the 26x3.00 for the front. Again I'm not trying to knock your choice, for some reason this bicycle vs MC tire on the front has become a touchy subject for some reason when it shouldn't be. I'm all for maximum performance and that is how I make my choices. I don't care if you bash the Duro as I'm willing to move to MC tire if it actually improved performance. But when I have a tire that works perfectly for the front, and is much lighter in weight, and has a much larger diameter, I see no reason to even build a MC tire to compare. And with the 3" duro razorbacks coming out, the tire will even be fatter, but even then I wonder if the 3" tire will perform better than the 2.6" Duro. But I will try this of course.

EDIT: I wanted to add that some of you brought up high speed driving. I push as high as 55MPH with the razorback and it is perfectly smooth. I don't think smoothness doesn't come from the tire but from how well the wheel is trued. I know if the wheel isn't trued then it feels unstable, but when trued properly you feel like you're floating on air.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

A good test would be to go lift up 7lbs (3.2) kg, move it up and down in your hand. This is all the weight that your front fork will have to constantly move around for almost nothing gained performance wise over a downhill rim and tire.

I am going to have to disagree here. The fork is not suspending the front tire, it is holding up all of the sprung weight. the front wheel is unsprung weight. The added mass will affect compression but not so much rebound since rebound is affected more by the total of sprung weight.

Beefing up the spring or adding some air to an air shock should take care of negative effects.

I ran a 24 x 3.00 on the front and it was very nice; much better than a 26 x 2.25 but the stability that the M/C wheel provides is above and beyond anything that can be attained with a bicycle tire.

If I can, I'd like to float an opinion regarding the impact of M/C wheels on a bike as they relate to stops by the police, I believe we have fat bikes to thank to some degree for helping our bikes remain a bit more incognito. I am at the beach and fat bikes are all over the place so I believe the police have just gotten used to seeing a lot of rubber so my bike is no big deal any more. This is a good thing for me since NJ laws are quite ambiguous.

 

[unclejam]

I have gone for a compromise for my newly arrived MXUS v2 3000w, with a factory fitted 24" heavy duty bike wheel with 3" road tyre. The 1 x cross lacing is a little suspect, with some incorrect angles etc but for $24 - including rim, who's complaining
I have fitted aFatti-O cruiser tyre as the rubber is really thick on the tread area, so hopefully this will give reasonable protection against flats.
If not, I have a pair of Holmes MMP 19" moto rims, ready to swap in!

 

[GiantEV]

Are bicycle front hubs standardized? I bought a Hope 2 20mm front hub and I came up with these measurements for the JH 19" moped rim:



Look correct? Would 14ga be fine? I'm thinking the lighter the better.

Do you know how large of a gauge spoke you can use in the Hope hub? I'm looking at the same hub and rim so I'll be following your wheel build.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Spoke Gauge diameter :
13 gauge = 2.3mm
12 gauge = 2.6mm
11 gauge = 2.9mm
10 gauge = 3.20mm

 

[johnrobholmes]

I would recommend 13/14 or straight 13ga on the hope hubs. Also recommend 3 cross.

 

[richdeloup]

Does anyone have the issue when installing the tire the tube gets caught between the tire in the rim right above the valve stem?
I was wondering if someone has an easier solution to free the tube and has also noticed this problem?

A little late but yeh, i always get this problem.
I think the tyres we are using are generally pretty narrow and the M/C tubes are a bit too fat where the valve is.

My fix is to use talc powder to stop the tube sticking and put a 90 degree angle extension on the tube valve.
This way the tube has some wiggle room to take its natural inflated place, usually a bit higher up in the tyre, with about 10mm of the original valve sticking out, especially if using bicycle tubes in M/C tyres. Not advisable but a lot cheaper and yet to have a problem....

 

[GiantEV]

I would recommend 13/14 or straight 13ga on the hope hubs. Also recommend 3 cross.

I'm planning on using the 20mm Hope Pro 2 EVO front hub (2.6mm holes for spokes).

This rim:
http://holmeshobbies.com/Holmes-MMP-19x1.6-Front-Ebike-and-Moped-Rim.html

And these spokes (Are these available in straight 13ga??):
http://holmeshobbies.com/Holmes-Custom-Moped-Spokes.html

The 13/14 spokes taper down in the middle, so the straight 13a spokes would be heavier but stronger, right?

I'll take your advice and go for 3 cross and am leaning towards straight 13ga if compatible with the MMP 19x1.6 moped rim.

 

[Offroader]

Trying to do some weight comparisons. Yes, I'm trying to cut weight down everywhere for a new build. I just realized my cromotor is a whopping 26.3 LBS including wires, far heavier than a mxus 3000 which weighs 18lbs, but supposedly has 90% the power.

Another thing I noticed is that the 17"x1.6" MMP rim weighs 2.7 LBS, where a 19"x1.4" Prowheel weighs 2.5LBS. Basically the 1.6" is just slightly wider but much thicker and heavier than the 1.4.

What doesn't make sense is do we really need a wide rim or even a wide tire on the rear because we don't have the horse power to ever worry about traction from acceleration. I really don't understand why Holmes Hobbies decided to use 1.6" rims over the 1.4" for our low powered and ungeared ebikes.


Could someone with a 19x1.6 MMP rim with a accurate scale weigh it for me. I assume nobody has a 17x1.4" prowheel that they can weigh, so I will make the comparison with the 19".

Thanks

 

[teslanv]

Trying to do some weight comparisons. Yes, I'm trying to cut weight down everywhere for a new build. I just realized my cromotor is a whopping 26.3 LBS including wires, far heavier than a mxus 3000 which weighs 18lbs, but supposedly has 90% the power.

Another thing I noticed is that the 17"x1.6" MMP rim weighs 2.7 LBS, where a 19"x1.4" Prowheel weighs 2.5LBS. Basically the 1.6" is just slightly wider but much thicker and heavier than the 1.4.

What doesn't make sense is do we really need a wide rim or even a wide tire on the rear because we don't have the horse power to ever worry about traction from acceleration. I really don't understand why Holmes Hobbies decided to use 1.6" rims over the 1.4" for our low powered and ungeared ebikes.


Could someone with a 19x1.6 MMP rim with a accurate scale weigh it for me. I assume nobody has a 17x1.4" prowheel that they can weigh, so I will make the comparison with the 19".

Thanks

19x1.6 MMP rim only weighs 1455 grams.
17X1.6 MMP rim only weighs 1205 grams.

 

[Offroader]

Thanks so here are the numbers in grams and lbs for the 19" prowheel or MMP rims.


2.5 lbs 1134 grams 19x1.4
3.2 lbs 1455 grams 19x1.6

So basically you are adding .7 lbs or 321 grams for the .2" wider rim.

I fail to see any benefit of a 1.6" rim over the 1.4" rim, and why have the .7 lbs of extra weight in the worst possible area.

I know some of you don't care but I'm trying to eliminate unnecessary weight and especially weight in the wheels where rotational mass comes into play.

I think we should recommend to Holmes Hobbies to stock some 1.4" rims. I may very well just get a regular prowheel 1.4" with the worse spoke hole alignment, and I can probably say that you may be better off going this route unless someone can tell me the benefit of a 1.6" rim over the 1.4".

Again, maximum performance is maximum performance and I don't want anything less here.

 

[Jackrabbit]

If anyone in the UK is looking for someone to build them a set of wheels I used this guy;

http://www.abrammotorcycles.co.uk

He was really good to deal with and did a great job on my wheels.

 

[madin88]

does prowheel really have a 17x1.4" rim?
the benefit of a rear MMP rim is it has the optimal spoke angle for large hub motor. 1200g is ok i think and you could also safe weight by choosing a light moped tire. the weight difference can be big between different types or brands..

edit: they really have 17x1.4" but only with 28 or 32 spoke holes. i have sent them an email about the weight.

 

[Offroader]

does prowheel really have a 17x1.4" rim?
the benefit of a rear MMP rim is it has the optimal spoke angle for large hub motor. 1200g is ok i think and you could also safe weight by choosing a light moped tire. the weight difference can be big between different types or brands..

edit: they really have 17x1.4" but only with 28 or 32 spoke holes. i have sent them an email about the weight.

madin88, prowheel would probably custom drill 36 spoke holes if Holmes Hobbies ordered it like that, just like they custom drill the better angled spoke holes. Problem is you would need to order a large quantity for them to do this.

I estimate the 17x1.4 prowheel would be around 2lbs or 900 grams. I compare my 17x1.6 MMP to my 19x1.4 prowheel that I have and you could tell the 17x1.6 is much thicker, and very small amount wider. Seems like to make rims just a little wider it adds a lot of weight. The 1.85" wide rims are around 4lbs.

I do like the optimal drilled spoke angles, but not at the expense of the added weight. I see no reason why Holmes hobbies shouldn't stock the 1.4" and offer that at least as an alternative. Maybe he can comment here if he intends to offer these rims in 1.4" rims.

 

[teslanv]

Most people want the wider rims so they can run fatter tires.
I have looked into getting these rims for the MXUS motors, and to special order a specific size with the spoke holes drilled at the proper angle you need a minimum order of 50 rims.

 

[Offroader]

Most people want the wider rims so they can run fatter tires.
I have looked into getting these rims for the MXUS motors, and to special order a specific size with the spoke holes drilled at the proper angle you need a minimum order of 50 rims.

teslanv, I run probably one of the fattest tires here a shinko 3" 241 which I love. Most people I think here run shinko 241 at 19x2.75 which isn't nearly as fat. I don't think it would be an issue running with a 1.4".

I have to figure out just how important the rim width is for optimal tire performance. I know the tire will be a bit more rounded when using a narrower rim. I'm going to think that since straight line traction isn't an issue for an ebike, having more contact patch with the ground doesn't matter at all. Maybe even a bit rounded at the top with less contact patch to the ground isn't actually a bad thing for an ebike.

If you look at bicycles, they have skinny tires in the rear. This is because straight line traction isn't a problem because there is no 50HP motor on the bike. So it would seem that narrow tires actually offer better traction from side to side while the fatter tires just flat and don't dig in. However, I do like the fat 3" shinko in the rear to help cushion the heavy rear of my bike, this doesn't make it necessary to have the tire have full contact with the ground which makes wider rims unnecessary in my opinion.

I believe Rix even mentioned that the 1.6" was unnecessary in his opinion and always recommended the 1.4".

 

[teslanv]

Most people want the wider rims so they can run fatter tires.
I have looked into getting these rims for the MXUS motors, and to special order a specific size with the spoke holes drilled at the proper angle you need a minimum order of 50 rims.

teslanv, I run probably one of the fattest tires here a shinko 3" 241 which I love. Most people I think here run shinko 241 at 19x2.75 which isn't nearly as fat. I don't think it would be an issue running with a 1.4".

I have to figure out just how important the rim width is for optimal tire performance. I know the tire will be a bit more rounded when using a narrower rim. I'm going to think that since straight line traction isn't an issue for an ebike, having more contact patch with the ground doesn't matter at all. Maybe even a bit rounded at the top with less contact patch to the ground isn't actually a bad thing for an ebike.

If you look at bicycles, they have skinny tires in the rear. This is because straight line traction isn't a problem because there is no 50HP motor on the bike. So it would seem that narrow tires actually offer better traction from side to side while the fatter tires just flat and don't dig in. However, I do like the fat 3" shinko in the rear to help cushion the heavy rear of my bike, this doesn't make it necessary to have the tire have full contact with the ground which makes wider rims unnecessary in my opinion.

I believe Rix even mentioned that the 1.6" was unnecessary in his opinion and always recommended the 1.4".

Well, that's something to chew on while I ponder a big order...

Can we have a consensus on the 1.4" wide Moto Rims? (Is anyone opposed to a 1.4" Rim?)

 

[macribs]

Those are blowout specials on unpopular colours / sizes / drillings. People are just trying to clear stock out (and have been for a while)

Fortunately they suit high power ebikers and are a bargin if you don't mind some wacky colours.

PAGE 1, first post screenshot ebay 35$ ??

*edit. Found it!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Rim- ... 80&vxp=mtr

They do say they're prowheel?

I ordered these in yellow. I have no idea what the color will actually look like. If it is yellow yellow or more of a gold color like øhlins shocks. But if the color is butt ugly I will just use a couple of cans of some black plasti dip I got laying around.

However if people know what spokes/washers/nipples will work with those rims pls let me know. R = qs 205 Front = 14 ga spokes (or I might file of material to fit 13 ga spokes as holes are for 14 ga) and this hub

 

[macribs]

If anyone in the UK is looking for someone to build them a set of wheels I used this guy;

http://www.abrammotorcycles.co.uk

He was really good to deal with and did a great job on my wheels.

He might do a good job building but he does a piss poor job of answering email or calls
I just gave up on him as he didn't reply.

 

[GiantEV]

Well, that's something to chew on while I ponder a big order...
Can we have a consensus on the 1.4" wide Moto Rims? (Is anyone opposed to a 1.4" Rim?)

I'd prefer 1.4" versus 1.6" wide, mostly for the weight savings.

It seems like several people are going with the DNM fork. If you're building wheels you may want to consider offering 20mm thru-axle (high quality hub) front wheels built into 19x1.4" moto rims and selling them on your site. I for one would purchase such a wheel if it were available, and I'm sure many others would too.