Building a beach cruiser/ board track bike

Also good (and should be required) reading:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Special:popularPages
http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Building_a_LiPo_Battery_Pack
http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Batteries_LiPo
http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Batteries_LiFePO4
http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/I%27m_a_Noob_and_I_Wanna_Go_50MPH
http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Fires

Absorb what you can and ask questions!

The short form RC lipo is inexpensive, light weight and has high energy discharge (High C rating). If handled carefully it will work fine, if mis-handled it can burn your house down...no joke!

LiFePO4 has good energy discharge. Not nearly as high as RC Lipo, but it is very stable and gets the job done. Set up right it can be plug in and walk away. But, it is bulkier and more expensive then RC Lipo

Lico (computer batteries) can be had inexpensively if you want to buy computer batteries and make a pack out of them. They have a low c rating and can over heat if pushed over 1 c for a while, but, sorced properly you can make a large and fairly light weight battery pack for a low dollar figure.
 
Looks like I got myself a lot of reading to do tomorrow... Thanks a lot fellas... The kindness, support and knowledge everyone has shown to me is really incredible I can't thank you all enough...
 
mark5 said:
file.php
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That would be how you would wire to get 18S if you pretend each of those bricks is a 6S. If each of those bricks is a 8000mAh, you just need to duplicate it one more time so you can double your capacity to 16000mAh. Once you have two sets, wire them together in parallel using one of these:


You will then end up with a 18S 16Ah pack. Now, the only problem is that it is an HXT-4mm connector and the ESC is probably an Anderson Powerpole. Thus, you'll need this adapter:
adapter.jpg

Done. No soldering what so ever. But, you have to be REALLY CAREFUL when connecting those batteries together to form the pack because unlike most connecters, the HXT doesn't prevent you from shorting the batteries but at the same time it allows you to connect the batteries in series without any adapter. It is a double-edged sword.
 
I don't know what to say now.

You are a wheelman, with lots of motorcycle experience, but won't accept that a cheap bike overloaded with motor and battery will handle like crap compared to the worst motorcycle you ever threw your leg over. To clarify, it will handle fine on a perfect road, but like crap at 40 mph on typical urban streets. Bikes aren't built for this, I've worn out a tire in 40 min.

But still wanting to get in the 40 mph club, you want to use some battery that's "safe"

Safe? There's an idea. Look in the very old threads, from like 2008. Look for Safe. Copy his bike. :lol:

Of course, you will have to do it your way. Get a controller that handles a wide range of voltages. One nice thing about RC batteries is the same 4 5s packs can make a 36v pack, a 50v pack, or a 72v pack.

You could get the headway type lifepo4, bms battery sells those. The big blue can cells. They can do 40 amps controllers, but they are big, bulky, and awkward to carry much of.
 
and don't forget that many 20mph ebikes can do 40-50mph easy. here is how:
ride ebike to bus stop.
put ebike on bike rack on front of bus.
go anywhere the bus goes at bus speeds, often past 40!
go last mile or 2 on ebike, since bus rarely goes exactly where you want.
 
dogman said:
I don't know what to say now.

You are a wheelman, with lots of motorcycle experience, but won't accept that a cheap bike overloaded with motor and battery will handle like crap compared to the worst motorcycle you ever threw your leg over. To clarify, it will handle fine on a perfect road, but like crap at 40 mph on typical urban streets. Bikes aren't built for this, I've worn out a tire in 40 min.

But still wanting to get in the 40 mph club, you want to use some battery that's "safe"

Safe? There's an idea. Look in the very old threads, from like 2008. Look for Safe. Copy his bike. :lol:

Of course, you will have to do it your way. Get a controller that handles a wide range of voltages. One nice thing about RC batteries is the same 4 5s packs can make a 36v pack, a 50v pack, or a 72v pack.

You could get the headway type lifepo4, bms battery sells those. The big blue can cells. They can do 40 amps controllers, but they are big, bulky, and awkward to carry much of.
Click to expand...

Did u read this post I made???

"One of the reasons for the bigger battery is because I don't want to push to the max very often... Most of the time I would run it at 50-75%... I just want that extra 25% there when I want to push it and I want to be able to take it easy on the battery/controller so it lasts me a while...

I would rather buy bigger everything and only run at 3/4 speed rather than buying everything smaller and run it at 100%"...


I'm not sure why u are getting defensive.. I am trying to expand my knowledge on everything pertaining to e-bikes and batteries... That includes how to make my own battery packs...

I am most likely going to buy either the 60v 20ah or 72v 15ah from BMSbattery.com.. No one really said anything about the company so I assume they are decent...
 
Matt Gruber said:
and don't forget that many 20mph ebikes can do 40-50mph easy. here is how:
ride ebike to bus stop.
put ebike on bike rack on front of bus.
go anywhere the bus goes at bus speeds, often past 40!
go last mile or 2 on ebike, since bus rarely goes exactly where you want.
Click to expand...
Where I'm from the only way you ride a bus with a 2k$ bike on the front is if u want to end up dead or carrying a gun... Neither option I like... Detroit doesn't play, I would never even think about public transportation with anything that valuable...
 
babyhughie said:
.......I am most likely going to buy either the 60v 20ah or 72v 15ah from BMSbattery.com.. No one really said anything about the company so I assume they are decent...
Click to expand...

I haven't used them, and maybe they have their act together by now.........You might want to look at this thread.


BMS Battery - what a complete shambles of a company:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42777&hilit=bms+battery+shambles


That 60v 20ah battery looks to be about 33 lbs and dimensions unknown.
72v 15ah 28.6 lbs and dimensions unknown.

with ether, you could be peddling bow legged, if it fits in your frame. Be sure either battery can fit in your frame because if you have to mount that much weight on a rear rack, it will be top heavy enough to suck you right over if the turn gets quick. Or, just getting off the bike once stopped is a problem with that much weight on a rear rack.
 
Let me put it more simply, I think you make a mistake using that bike for 40 mph on regular shitty streets. 30 mph fine, at 40 you will be having problems, I guarantee it. It's that bike at 40 I object about, not a 40 mph bike.

Suspension. Did your motorcycles have none? Look at how many of us here on ES that have fast bikes have included good suspension.

Overbuilding the motor is fine, though more expensive. But it doesn't have to have excess speed to last longer. Controllers wear out faster at 3/4 throttle than at full throttle. Carrying a larger capacity battery will help the battery last longer, but larger voltage will not increase it's lifespan.

I'm not theorizing about no suspension, one of my bikes had no suspension and went 47 mph. It was a handful even on a smooth race track. I'm telling you it will suck to ride that fast on that bike on the street, because mine did. But 30 mph will be fine. You'll buck, but not buck off it at 30.
 
Damn I'm going insane reading all this battery stuff it's really giving me a headache...

Here's a general question that will really help me out..

What battery and controller would you choose?? Already decided on the crystalyte hs3520 rear hub

What I need to be able to do..

- Max 20 mile total commute (rarely, maybe 5 times a year I will have a 25-30 mile commute when I do I won't mind doing some peddling)

-85% of the ride I want to go 25-30mph

-15% of the ride 30-35ish mph

- able to charge without having to worry about burning down my house, charge while sleeping.

- I don't want to over push and burn out battery/controller..

- don't want to pay over $900 for battery

Edit: I think my original 40mph was thrown out by me to early... That was simply a rough number... I think 35mph max should be more around what I should shoot for..
 
babyhughie said:
Damn I'm going insane reading all this battery stuff it's really giving me a headache.......
Click to expand...

Yep...Welcome to building your own ebike.

Here's a general question that will really help me out..

What battery and controller would you choose?? Already decided on the crystalyte hs3520

What I need to be able to do.. - Max 20 mile total commute -85% of the ride I want to go 25-30mph -15% of the ride 30-35ish mph
Click to expand...

48v 15ah and constant peddling would probably get you that. Anything over 48v means less peddling.

- able to charge without having to worry about burning down my house, charge while sleeping.
Click to expand...

That generally means LiFePO4.

I don't want to over push and burn out battery/controller.. ...Edit: I think my original 40mph was thrown out by me to early... That was simply a rough number... I think 35mph max should be more around what I should shoot for..
Click to expand...

Much more sensible. People forget most stock bikes aren't really made to go faster then people can peddle them. Putting a motor on them puts undo stress on their design limits.

As for battery's, I roll on Headways. They are bigger and bulkier then RC lipo and they really don't have 10c in them, despite the ratings, but they are robust, long lasting and stable enough to charge while you sleep.

If you want to talk Headways, contact this guy: Jim Delgado jim@headway-headquarters.com and tell him you want to go up to 35mph on your crystalyte hs3520 and see what he says.

Jim is very knowable and helpful, .....I just don't like the accountant's return policy's at that place.
 
After researching all day I've decided to get the 60v 15ah Ping battery... However now I'm stuck on which controller to get... @dogman said I would kill that ping pack with the 40A Infineon... Is that true even if I'm only running the battery pack at 70-80% power??? On the ebikes website it says any battery pack over 48v you need to get the 40A controller... What one would you guys recomend??
 
I owe you an apology. Not your fault I've had the flu all week. But I do try hard to explain to folks who have a healthy dose of want's it all in one bike. It can be done, but a small lowering of expectations can save you a ton of money and hassle. Saving weight on an ebike can really improve the ride, and a 60-70 pound bike that does 30 can be sweet, but adding enough battery to go faster for very far can make a bike ride like a pig.

I think others will back me up, a 15 ah ping cannot last with a 40 amps controller, if it's ridden hard. I nearly ruined one on the racetrack in 30 min, with a 30 amps controller. That battery was brand new, and acted a year old after that day. But off the racetrack, I'm sure I could have gotten away with a 30 amps controller longer by riding less destructive. For sure, I know ping cells really hate a big amps spike. A 40 amps controller will produce a 60 amps spike leaving every stop sign.

I recommend 20-25 amps controllers for a 15 ah size ping. Headways would be able to take a 40 amps. Some have done that with only 10 ah size.

Doing some math, a 60v ping will charge to about 70v. 70v x 22 amps is 1540 watts. ( 20 amps controllers often actually do 22 amps) Depending on your motor winding, that has the wattage to hit 35 mph. But later in the ride, a top speed closer to 32 mph would be expected. That's a lot more in line with what a no suspension bike can tolerate. Bear in mind, this isn't hitting 45 mph once in a while descending a hill, it's day after day at much faster speeds than anybody pedals that bike. Even at 25 mph, you'll need 10x the wheel maintenance than you thought.

A 72v controller will typically have a 60v low voltage cutoff, so a 25 amps 72v controller would work well with that battery choice. The battery will be empty just about at 60v.

I'm not sure a 60v 15 ah ping will fit in your bikes frame, check on that before buying. A 48v 15 ah definitely will.

If you do choose a battery with a better c rate, then a 40 amps controller 48v bike will ride a ton more fun than 60v 20 amps. You are right to want 40 amps. But 40 amps at higher voltage is kinda pricy, both in money and in weight. A 48v bike will go at least 27 mph, and if it has a 40 amps controller, it will get to 27 mph fast and fun. I'd rather have a perky bike that's got less top speed than a sluggish bike that goes 5 mph faster.

The bike I ride a lot has a 48v 40 amps controller. It's a crazy heavy bike, but it rides perky as hell. But the 40 amps controller means I couldn't use pings anymore. I went to a more complicated and dangerous RC lico. Half the perky is from using lico, since it doesn't sag under load like ping would. You might consider a battery from EM3ev. His triangle batteries should be able to tolerate a 40 amps controller, if you ride carefully leaving the stops most of the time.
 
babyhughie said:
After researching all day I've decided to get the 60v 15ah Ping battery... However now I'm stuck on which controller to get... @dogman said I would kill that ping pack with the 40A Infineon... Is that true even if I'm only running the battery pack at 70-80% power???
Click to expand...

The amp rating on the controller comes into play when under load, like accelerating at low speed, on inclines, etc. So when taking off from a stop or accelerating hard, you will hit that easily, completely independent of what battery pack you are running. So unless you pedal a lot from stops and baby the throttle, you will push 40A+ through the controller quite often (at least in short bursts), asking the battery pack to provide more that is was designed to do.

The recommendation to go with the 40A controller if going over 48V is more likely due to the voltage rating on the capacitors inside the controller they offer?

If you get a programmable controller you can lower the controller output, and if the controller has a CycleAnalyst plug, the CA can limit the power output as well. On my bike I have the controller set to 50A but the CA limiting it to 40A, so on a ride I can bump it up or down depending on if I want to save battery or burn hard.
 
if you order your stuff from justin at ebikes.ca you should obviously get a cycle analyst as well, which will be entirely plug and play. This will allow you to limit your max current output to 25 or so amps which is roughly 1.5c discharge of your 15Ah ping battery. I think that would be pretty safe for a ping battery, but i havent had any hands on experience with them.
 
Dogman, no need to apologize my friend..

I am gonna get the 40a controller from ebikes.. I will program it to put out either 25-30a max... I don't want to burn out my battery but I also don't want to be limited in the future if I upgrade my bike/battery... So I think it's a good way to go..

So it's gonna be either the 50v 20ah pack from em3ev.com or the Ping 60V 15Ah battery with the Infineon 40A controller tuned down to 25 or 30A max... :)

I am going to wait to order until I get my bike though I want to make sure it will fit.. I made a replica of the battery size with some foam insulation I had laying around...
 
Perfect plan. Now you can easily adjust the amps or voltage and do experiments. I just ended up with multiple controllers. 48v 40 amps has turned out to be my favorite for street. Not crazy fast, but I get the jump on cars at stop lights. So cars have time to sort out things from the stop before they overtake me again. I can cross a busy fast traffic street nice and quick. But I don't bend my rims on potholes at 40 mph.

72v 20 amps was just sluggish, despite eventually winding up to faster speed.

40 amps forced me into RC batteries though. Now there are more options, but they all cost more than I can spend at a given moment.
 
Alright I'm back after doing my fair share of research on batteries... I have a question though...

What's the deal with this battery?? Does anyone have any experience?? If I tuned my 40A controller down to 30A would this battery be able to get me 10 miles at 22-27mph and 5 miles at 28-32mph?? What will the top speed be with it?? I talked to the seller and he said the BMS is set to only discharge 20A or 2C... Does this mean the battery will cut out at anything above 20A?? And I would then need to set my controller to 20A?? I'm a bit confused about this but I figured I would ask since this battery is only $550 total and in the USA...

Here's the link to the battery

http://bit.ly/1eteAbL
 
too weak. need 2-4 of them in parallel.
 
Cell_man from em3ev.com makes batteries that can put out 30A or 40A safely and still last for their rated life-cycle. They cost more, but then again he doesn't want to compete with the hundreds of vendors selling 25A packs.

Ping is a respected vendor, if you limit the 15-Ah pack to 25A, they will last at least 3 years with daily use (see dogmans post-count, it is not a misprint), Ping is an appropriate suggestion for a 28-MPH E-bike which would serve 80% of all E-bikers. cell_man is also a trusted vendor, and for 30-MPH to 40-MPH...he would be my first choice. In the interests of full-disclosure, I've never had a 40-MPH E-bike, but I read a lot here, and I make note of the guys who make a 40-MPH E-bike and are happy with the results.

Full suspension on a 40-MPH street isn't about rider comfort, it's about maintaining control so you don't crash. Here's an article on high-current batteries that are NOT LiPo:
http://www.electricbike.com/high-current-batteries-that-are-not-lipo/
 
So it looks like that EBay battery pack won't work.. It just doesn't make sense to me why anyone would build a 72v pack that can't discharge high enough to be able to really use the 72v to their potential..

I messaged cell man to see if he could make a 60v battery.. Right now he's either got a 75v a123 pack that is to big or a bunch of 50v packs that don't have enough Volts for me.. If he had a 60v pack that would fit in a HPC top tube triangle bag it would be a done deal..
 
He will build u a 72v 13Ah frame triangle battery. I may have him build me one but he wants a 250 deposit. Im still not 100 percent sure im going to go that route
 
Em3ev is where you need to go for a high power battery. I heard your wants and 34-35mph is a wake up call plus get a C.A. it will help you in many ways I like to buy controller with the plug for it.
Not that ebay thing. You will need spend over 800usd. I like A123 cells as lifepo4 and a bms, plug and play. Not the hobby low quailty H.K. lipo charge in a brick shed. Lifepo4 has high cycles if carefore
Remenber you can melt a 3540 ask dogman about how to melt motors.
Plus I guess you live michagan
 
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