Custom Frame Cruiser:+/- finished pg.5
- Thread starter SkyknightJohn
- Start date
10 kW
I love these custom bikes! When I am reincarnated, I am going to build bikes. Right now, too much to do, too little time.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
:lol: I wondered who would notice.100volts+ said:
Yeah, I'll end up with either a 20" bmx with 16" moped tire, or a JRH 18" moped set. I need to look in on how people have added clamping dropouts, too.
It was a Good day with the Grinder at my Girlfriend's Garage, (Gee, I love her
) I removed all the offending pieces and either cleaned up and recycled or made new brackets. Next - build a jig to ensure everything is square for the next trip to the welder. 
dingoEsride
100 kW
This should turn out to be a great looking bike, i have a soft spot for those army drab bikes too,
BTW did you know that the bike you are modelling on never went to war, it was an experimental harley based on what the germans had at the time, the u.s. army liked the shaft drive and was to be used in the sands of north africa,
anyway good luck with the build
BTW did you know that the bike you are modelling on never went to war, it was an experimental harley based on what the germans had at the time, the u.s. army liked the shaft drive and was to be used in the sands of north africa,
anyway good luck with the build
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Hey dingoEsride, I didn't know that about the model bike, I just liked the lines and had seen a few converted to "civilian" use that looked good too. Looking around the web, however, the BMW's of the time are very similar (or vice-versa.) Very nice lines, too.
No, It's a Tubing notcher, this is the Harbor Freight model for $50. http://www.harborfreight.com/pipe-tubing-notcher-42324.html
It seems to always come a little out of alignment, but I followed this guy's tutorial. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty915Z0GrJo
I think I could do just about as good with a good clamp and a drill press, but then I wouldn't have a built in protractor :? It worked OK, but I always had to do a little grinding/filing to get it perfectly even, and the angles just right. Time consuming, but worth it. I used bi-metal hole saws, and went through a few cutting cromoly. I think Farfle suggested a good tool, for about $100, in the swingarm sale thread, if you're doing a lot of fishmouths that may be worth the investment.
100volts+ said:
No, It's a Tubing notcher, this is the Harbor Freight model for $50. http://www.harborfreight.com/pipe-tubing-notcher-42324.html
It seems to always come a little out of alignment, but I followed this guy's tutorial. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty915Z0GrJo
I think I could do just about as good with a good clamp and a drill press, but then I wouldn't have a built in protractor :? It worked OK, but I always had to do a little grinding/filing to get it perfectly even, and the angles just right. Time consuming, but worth it. I used bi-metal hole saws, and went through a few cutting cromoly. I think Farfle suggested a good tool, for about $100, in the swingarm sale thread, if you're doing a lot of fishmouths that may be worth the investment.
beast775
100 kW
Looking great so far! I would use 2 shocks,keep flex away and look doublee cool.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
beast775 said:Looking great so far! I would use 2 shocks,keep flex away and look doublee cool.
Thanks beast. Do you mean like in this image, using moped shocks, or did you have something else in mind? I'm open to suggestions still since I've not re-welded yet.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Here's what I have planned now for the rear suspension configuration.
The angles look better and the swing arm is level.
The angles look better and the swing arm is level.
beast775
100 kW
Now that looks better,but yes I do like the 2 shock pic you have looks tough-old school. It will keep your swingarm from flexing if you, up youre horsepower ,later on.
,later on.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Yep, likely Army Green, brown leather seat, some saddle bags down the road would look nice, a sheath for my rifle... keep it under 25 so's not to attract attention! :lol:
Still haven't decided which way to go with the suspension, work has been keeping me too busy to get a time with my welder... patience... I was never good at.
Still haven't decided which way to go with the suspension, work has been keeping me too busy to get a time with my welder... patience... I was never good at.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Not much progress, I have it all jigged up and square. Still hard to find time to get to the welder... thinking of getting my own machine. Anyone have experience with the Everlast line?
Anyway, some pics...
Anyway, some pics...
SkyknightJohn
100 W
No pics today, but a small update... My first welder never returned my calls :? so I went with a guy who had cheap Miller MIG. It's welded. It wasn't pretty but it was straight and square. I cleaned it up a bit and took it to my LBS to ream and set the headset and trace and face the bottom bracket. It seems the BB shell is extra ovaled from the excess heat. They're going to need to get a full tapping tool, not just the tracer. The mechanic has to check with the boss Monday. I'm hopeful, as when I took the frame in, instead of "WTF is that? :| " they were like "Cool! WTF is that!?" (subtle difference in text, but a big difference in person.) They didn't even get their knickers in a bind when I told them of my plans to electrify it! They'll really score points if they spring for the tapping tool on my account.
Anyway... here are some lessons learned thus far...
- I know enough welding to have done at least as good a job as the second guy, probably better because I would have cared.
- A $500 TIG set up, even if it's crap compared to multi-thousand dollar name-brands, would have saved me tons of headaches and months of time. Plus, I could fix mistakes almost immediately. If I keep crazy and do another frame I'll make the investment.
- I thought $500 worth of bottom bracket and head tube tools seemed expensive for a one- or two- frame project. I was wrong. I'll end up spending $150 for the shop to do it once, if they can get it done, and like the welding, if I had the tools I could fix my own mistakes more easily.
- An alignment jig is worth the time and effort.
- building your own frame is not less expensive than buying a quality bike... you have to have passion, a touch of insanity, and a lot of optimism. (A good support forum helps too!)
Hopefully rolling this week... please stand by... we are experiencing technical difficulties...
WTF is that!?" (subtle difference in text, but a big difference in person.) They didn't even get their knickers in a bind when I told them of my plans to electrify it! They'll really score points if they spring for the tapping tool on my account. Anyway... here are some lessons learned thus far...
- I know enough welding to have done at least as good a job as the second guy, probably better because I would have cared.
- A $500 TIG set up, even if it's crap compared to multi-thousand dollar name-brands, would have saved me tons of headaches and months of time. Plus, I could fix mistakes almost immediately. If I keep crazy and do another frame I'll make the investment.
- I thought $500 worth of bottom bracket and head tube tools seemed expensive for a one- or two- frame project. I was wrong. I'll end up spending $150 for the shop to do it once, if they can get it done, and like the welding, if I had the tools I could fix my own mistakes more easily.
- An alignment jig is worth the time and effort.
- building your own frame is not less expensive than buying a quality bike... you have to have passion, a touch of insanity, and a lot of optimism.
(A good support forum helps too!)Hopefully rolling this week... please stand by... we are experiencing technical difficulties...
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Rolling! Sort of.
Back from the LBS with the headtube reamed and faced and a Chris King headset installed.
They decided not to purchase a BB tapping tool for just me, which I understand. Looks like I'll have to buy it and do it myself. I'm still happy with the service and their attitude.
Put the wheels on to see what it looked like, and tested the suspension a bit. It moves nicely. I need to grind off the rim brake boss tabs to clear the tire, but no biggie there.
Here's some pics:
I'm 6'2", for frame of reference.
a bit off topic... but it's my thread
After they called to say they couldn't complete the BB, they had some questions about the length of the steerer, and rather than try to describe it over the phone, I went in. We worked it out, and they trimmed the tube and installed the star nut while I waited. They had an Origin 8 Crawler with a NuVinci n360 and I asked their opinion of the hub, they had few opinions as it was new to them, and I think I knew more about it than they did from here and other research, but they let me take it for a test ride while I waited.
I liked the feel of the NuVinci, and had no trouble shifting up or down under load, although it was a bit slower. It felt like it had a nice, wide range. The fat tires induced a lot of drag, so I couldn't get a real sense of any lossiness,but I did like the feel of it. And it was nice of them to let me take it out for a spin.
More progress next week, after I formulate a plane to move forward.
Back from the LBS with the headtube reamed and faced and a Chris King headset installed.
They decided not to purchase a BB tapping tool for just me, which I understand. Looks like I'll have to buy it and do it myself. I'm still happy with the service and their attitude.
Put the wheels on to see what it looked like, and tested the suspension a bit. It moves nicely. I need to grind off the rim brake boss tabs to clear the tire, but no biggie there.
Here's some pics:
I'm 6'2", for frame of reference.
a bit off topic... but it's my thread
After they called to say they couldn't complete the BB, they had some questions about the length of the steerer, and rather than try to describe it over the phone, I went in. We worked it out, and they trimmed the tube and installed the star nut while I waited. They had an Origin 8 Crawler with a NuVinci n360 and I asked their opinion of the hub, they had few opinions as it was new to them, and I think I knew more about it than they did from here and other research, but they let me take it for a test ride while I waited.
I liked the feel of the NuVinci, and had no trouble shifting up or down under load, although it was a bit slower. It felt like it had a nice, wide range. The fat tires induced a lot of drag, so I couldn't get a real sense of any lossiness,but I did like the feel of it. And it was nice of them to let me take it out for a spin.
More progress next week, after I formulate a plane to move forward.
beast775
100 kW
Fork suits frame rake,looks good in the front, the angles from the side are :? .is that a 26" on back? would look good as a hardtail also, but would stink if youre going to go fast.good luck with the bottom bracket shell.
I think the angles on the side match a stock genesis closely and match my modified genesis or better yet farfles successful race bike. Will post a pic of my modified genesis also.
PS The center of my BB is 12" from the gound without me on it. that means I should have about 5.25 inches of gound clearance with the pedals. I have 170mm cranks. What is the center of the BB measurement from the ground going to be?
PPS Make sure to get a wider bb or bb axle so your crank arms clear the swing arm
PS The center of my BB is 12" from the gound without me on it. that means I should have about 5.25 inches of gound clearance with the pedals. I have 170mm cranks. What is the center of the BB measurement from the ground going to be?
PPS Make sure to get a wider bb or bb axle so your crank arms clear the swing arm
SkyknightJohn
100 W
beast775 said:
Yep, both are 26", with a MAC 8t in the rear. This is just what I have from my genesis. I'm a noob, remember. I only own ONE motor/controller/batter/kit.
(Gotta work on that!) I built it with 26" or 24" in mind for the rear. I think the weight of this frame will benefit from a smaller rear but will have to check the ride height and angles, etc... Somebody will ask how much it weighs... I don't own a scale but guess it to be 25-30 pounds/11-14kg with the frame, fork, & front wheel. This is just comparing it to dumbells. JRH/Volt Riders moped rims and tires are still on my wishlist.
36v in a MAC will be a good test before I get silly with power. Assuming eventual success, I'll probably weld the second frame up as a hardtail. I think with moped wheels and tires plus the long wheel base and a springed bobber seat the bumps would be tolerable. They run full motorcycles hardtail afterall.
The angle seem to work. I've stood on the bottom tube and the suspension moves/bounces decently. I need another shock though. The real (non-spring) shock I bought has the wrong size reducers, and the LBS didn't act like they could switch them. I may need some pivot point clean-up as well for smoother operation.100volts+ said:
The bottom bracket and the bottom tube are 9"/23cm from the ground. This is the one that will have the Giant Stiletto-style jackshaft in it. The pedal BB will be approx 3" up the curve of the downtube up front. It's chainline will go to the jackshaft, with another chain to the rear as the Giant Stiletto does. I think with the jackshaft I should have clearance, but I had just got the bike back and had some schedule constraints and took the above pics in a hurry, so I haven't done any real measurements yet, but I have time later this week set aside to work on it.
As always, thanks for the kind words and questions that make me think about it from different perspectives. I hope to have it rolling under power before I need to buy snow tires.
etard
100 kW
John,
Great looking bike! If I might make a suggestion or two...
BB: I am assuming you have seen the custom framebuilder's websites that sell BB shells already tapped and reamed, and they just don't sell the size you need.
http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=BB2010
You could probably order the right size from one of those providers even if you don't see it listed on the website. Also check out the atomic zombie forum for suggestions on chopping up cheap walmart frames to get the parts you need.
Another suggestion, don't overlook brazing as a viable option in place of welding, the learning curve on oxy aceteline brazing is much easier to get good results from the beginning. Plus you can use the oxy torch to bend tubing with! Also, cromoly tubing is nice to save a few ounces, but for your first build, DOM (drawn over mandrel) tubing or even mild steel will be almost as good, can be cheaper, and neglibably heavier for your purposes.
We should have a specialty tool lending thread on this forum, I'm sure a few guys out there have the BB tap you are looking for, just sitting on the shelf. Heck, I think I remember one guy rented one or something...
Hope that helps!
Great looking bike! If I might make a suggestion or two...
BB: I am assuming you have seen the custom framebuilder's websites that sell BB shells already tapped and reamed, and they just don't sell the size you need.
http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=BB2010
You could probably order the right size from one of those providers even if you don't see it listed on the website. Also check out the atomic zombie forum for suggestions on chopping up cheap walmart frames to get the parts you need.
Another suggestion, don't overlook brazing as a viable option in place of welding, the learning curve on oxy aceteline brazing is much easier to get good results from the beginning. Plus you can use the oxy torch to bend tubing with! Also, cromoly tubing is nice to save a few ounces, but for your first build, DOM (drawn over mandrel) tubing or even mild steel will be almost as good, can be cheaper, and neglibably heavier for your purposes.
We should have a specialty tool lending thread on this forum, I'm sure a few guys out there have the BB tap you are looking for, just sitting on the shelf. Heck, I think I remember one guy rented one or something...
Hope that helps!
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Hi etard! Yep, Paragon is where I got them, and my headtube. The come 0.5mm oversized width wise so that they can be faced, making both sides parallel so the BB cups & bearings roll in the same plane. The threads are fine to start with, but the welding (even done well) distorts the threads enough that they need to be "traced," re-aligning them and assuring the threads at least are in a true circle. The tool to do this is not as hard as a true tap and cannot cut as well. This is the one my LBS tried, but didn't work and the tap tool is the one they wouldn't buy.
This is the one I will likely buy:
http://www.cyclesportsuk.co.uk/tool...-p-8732.html?currency=USD&country_for_tax=223
Here's a facing tool:
http://www.cyclesportsuk.co.uk/tool...racket-shell-facing-tool-complete-p-7366.html
Of course, Park tools makes a more expensive, but combination unit:
http://www.parktool.com/product/bottom-bracket-tapping-facing-set-bts-1
This is the head tube tool that reams the inside for the headset to sit, and face the top/bottom for symmetry:
http://www.cyclesportsuk.co.uk/tool...clus-head-tube-reamerfacer-18inch-p-7860.html
And this is the heat sink/purge fitting that would have prevented the warping of the BB in the first place.
http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=FT5003
It's just money, right? But I just sold a truck and have a little, so I may go for it. I like your tool lending thread idea. I'll think about being a sponsor for something like that.
I'll also look into brazing. I do have some welding experience from a job I held for 5 years some 15 years ago, but never TIG. (Tulsa Tube Bending was the company, imagine what I could do with scraps if I still worked there!) I've been watching a lot of video tutorials though and I think I could get it well enough. I'm considering this TIG from Everlast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaC0Rb4O7Eo
No AC, so no aluminum, but the price isn't bad. $275 for the unit. Probably $500 total once I add some accessories and gas, then another $200 for things I didn't think of.
I love atomic zombie!
I didn't find cromoly to be too expensive, got it from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. It's supposed to have properties that make it better for frame welding, heat/work hardening without heat treating/annealing afterwards, IIRC.
Good thoughts. Keep 'em coming.
This is the one I will likely buy:
http://www.cyclesportsuk.co.uk/tool...-p-8732.html?currency=USD&country_for_tax=223
Here's a facing tool:
http://www.cyclesportsuk.co.uk/tool...racket-shell-facing-tool-complete-p-7366.html
Of course, Park tools makes a more expensive, but combination unit:
http://www.parktool.com/product/bottom-bracket-tapping-facing-set-bts-1
This is the head tube tool that reams the inside for the headset to sit, and face the top/bottom for symmetry:
http://www.cyclesportsuk.co.uk/tool...clus-head-tube-reamerfacer-18inch-p-7860.html
And this is the heat sink/purge fitting that would have prevented the warping of the BB in the first place.
http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=FT5003
It's just money, right? But I just sold a truck and have a little, so I may go for it. I like your tool lending thread idea. I'll think about being a sponsor for something like that.
I'll also look into brazing. I do have some welding experience from a job I held for 5 years some 15 years ago, but never TIG. (Tulsa Tube Bending was the company, imagine what I could do with scraps if I still worked there!) I've been watching a lot of video tutorials though and I think I could get it well enough. I'm considering this TIG from Everlast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaC0Rb4O7Eo
No AC, so no aluminum, but the price isn't bad. $275 for the unit. Probably $500 total once I add some accessories and gas, then another $200 for things I didn't think of.
I love atomic zombie!
I didn't find cromoly to be too expensive, got it from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. It's supposed to have properties that make it better for frame welding, heat/work hardening without heat treating/annealing afterwards, IIRC.
Good thoughts. Keep 'em coming.
