Custom Frame Cruiser:+/- finished pg.5
- Thread starter SkyknightJohn
- Start date
SkyknightJohn
100 W
You'll need the option for AC welding then, which ups the cost a bit. I waffled on whether or not to get a AC capable unit. Maybe in the future.
<edit> Well, what'cha know? You can DC weld Aluminum. Thanks Mr. TIG! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_DwA0vzKXI
<edit> Well, what'cha know? You can DC weld Aluminum. Thanks Mr. TIG! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_DwA0vzKXI
SkyknightJohn
100 W
The welder arrived today, a day earlier than FedEx indicated... not that I'm complaining. It was packed well, the unit inside it's plastic carry case, surrounded by styrofoam, inside a sturdy cardboard box.
The manual that comes with it was written by somebody whose first language is not English. It's not bad, just funny verb conjugations and sometimes unusual turns of phrase. Everlast has online manuals in .pdf that on first look through are much better.
The included Argon regulator is in Liters per minute, vs. <Gallons per hour> <edit> I mean Cubic Feet per hour>. Not a problem for the rest of the world, but since I live in the Empire, I was raise on the Imperial system and will have to learn to convert or buy a different regulator. For $70, I think I'll learn to convert.
I still have to secure my Argon bottle, misc. accessories, and find time to set it up and get going. Once I have some real experience with it, I'll write up a review in the review section.
The manual that comes with it was written by somebody whose first language is not English. It's not bad, just funny verb conjugations and sometimes unusual turns of phrase. Everlast has online manuals in .pdf that on first look through are much better.
The included Argon regulator is in Liters per minute, vs. <Gallons per hour> <edit> I mean Cubic Feet per hour>. Not a problem for the rest of the world, but since I live in the Empire, I was raise on the Imperial system and will have to learn to convert or buy a different regulator. For $70, I think I'll learn to convert.
I still have to secure my Argon bottle, misc. accessories, and find time to set it up and get going. Once I have some real experience with it, I'll write up a review in the review section.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
TIG welding is something of an art form. I have a fair amount of MIG experience from a job in the '90s, where I had to build tooling and jigs on a regular basis. I was trained by code level TIG welders and could MIG some pretty nice looking beads, but it is like running a hot glue gun compared to TIG. They often worked with inconel and other special alloys for critical applications where each weld was 100% X-rayed and dye penetrate tested. Watching them weld was like watching an artist at work. My TIG experience is limited to striking a few arcs and running a few beads without filler, but practice, practice, practice. I'll build a work table and some jigs for practice, at a minimum, before I move onto the frames.
Wheel building/lacing is the same. Seems overwhelming at first. I disassembled and re-built my first wheel last night. It was so bad that trying to true the wheel was out of the question. I'll have to pull it apart and put it together several times before I feel competent at all. But like everything, practice, practice, practice. You have to start somewhere. The journey of a thousand miles... and all that. I read a lot and have watched several youtube videos on wheel building, and they gave me the confidence to give it a go.
Watch a bunch of the Mr. TIG videos, and other tutorials, and it will seem less daunting. Competence comes from knowledge and experience. Experience is gained from doing a thing. Mastery is made by learning from mistakes.
Wheel building/lacing is the same. Seems overwhelming at first. I disassembled and re-built my first wheel last night. It was so bad that trying to true the wheel was out of the question. I'll have to pull it apart and put it together several times before I feel competent at all. But like everything, practice, practice, practice. You have to start somewhere. The journey of a thousand miles... and all that. I read a lot and have watched several youtube videos on wheel building, and they gave me the confidence to give it a go.
Watch a bunch of the Mr. TIG videos, and other tutorials, and it will seem less daunting. Competence comes from knowledge and experience. Experience is gained from doing a thing. Mastery is made by learning from mistakes.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Been hard at practice with the welder... look who has (finally) some aligned, in-round, Bottom Brackets!
Still not the prettiest in the book, but they're there, and square, (and round!
)
This pic sums up my welding ability so far:
The weld on the left is kinda good looking. The one on the right, not so much. It is however, secure, without burn through, and will look better after grinding.
And here is some of my welds on some 3/4" square 0.065" wall. Getting Better!
I have to re-make the swingarm attachment brackets, weld them, and re-assemble everything, including pedals this time!
Then on to paint, or fab up a bracket to mount the mac as a mid-drive. Time to re-read the Crossbeak conversion thread!
Still not the prettiest in the book, but they're there, and square, (and round!
)This pic sums up my welding ability so far:
The weld on the left is kinda good looking. The one on the right, not so much. It is however, secure, without burn through, and will look better after grinding.
And here is some of my welds on some 3/4" square 0.065" wall. Getting Better!
I have to re-make the swingarm attachment brackets, weld them, and re-assemble everything, including pedals this time!
Then on to paint, or fab up a bracket to mount the mac as a mid-drive. Time to re-read the Crossbeak conversion thread!
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Due to circumstances that should have been completely within my control, I've made it into a hardtail. Specifically, I made some beautiful welds attaching the swingarm brackets to the rear bottom bracket shell--1/8" too close together. I swear I measured at least twice and welded once. Should have measured a few more times. Removing them kinda ruined that BB shell, so I moved on. I removed the suspension brackets all together and fabbed up seat and chain stays.
Yes, those are a pair of DocBass torque plates I'm using as dropouts. I had them sitting around, so why not?
And here she is after the first test run in the new configuration. The wheelbase is now 55". With the balloon tires, soft front suspension fork, and springer seat, the ride is barely noticibly stiffer. Admittedly, I did not ride far as it's 15*F right now. Warmer weather and longer rides may prove less comfy. I've added a SRAM single sprocket crankset over a Truvative powerspline BB. I'm able to sit rather upright in what would likely be called a pedal-forward configuration.
Next on the to do list... a few more tests to be sure that my welds hold up, add a chain and deraileur, rear brake caliper mount, battery bag/box (the duct tape just doesn't do it for me,) then pull it all apart for some paint.
It's not pretty. I know. But it has been a fun learning process and I'm ready to move onto my next frame project. I have the tubing to build another similar to this (perhaps getting it right, including suspension,) or a SWB recumbent. I have six sets of Atomic Zombie plans and my ruptured vertebral disc has been urging me toward recumbents lately. The mountain bike posture is quite the pain.
Yes, those are a pair of DocBass torque plates I'm using as dropouts. I had them sitting around, so why not?
And here she is after the first test run in the new configuration. The wheelbase is now 55". With the balloon tires, soft front suspension fork, and springer seat, the ride is barely noticibly stiffer. Admittedly, I did not ride far as it's 15*F right now. Warmer weather and longer rides may prove less comfy. I've added a SRAM single sprocket crankset over a Truvative powerspline BB. I'm able to sit rather upright in what would likely be called a pedal-forward configuration.
Next on the to do list... a few more tests to be sure that my welds hold up, add a chain and deraileur, rear brake caliper mount, battery bag/box (the duct tape just doesn't do it for me,) then pull it all apart for some paint.
It's not pretty. I know. But it has been a fun learning process and I'm ready to move onto my next frame project. I have the tubing to build another similar to this (perhaps getting it right, including suspension,) or a SWB recumbent. I have six sets of Atomic Zombie plans and my ruptured vertebral disc has been urging me toward recumbents lately. The mountain bike posture is quite the pain.
ridethelightning
1 MW
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2013
- Messages
- 2,010
comming along nicely.
now just fill that huge frame space up with shizzle!
i reckon you could get about 4kwh in there.
now just fill that huge frame space up with shizzle!
i reckon you could get about 4kwh in there.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
*Donations of shizzle accepted!**
That's the hard part of the budget. Motors are reasonable. My Mac is an older generation, though, the most I could go anyway is 48v. That would get me about 5 more mph for a top of 30 or so. The original purpose for all that space was to have room for the Mac to become a mid-drive just ahead of the seat post. There's still hope for that plan, as I'm not too happy with how the frame sits. See how the seat is all the way forward on it's rails? It's a little stretch for me even like that, and I'm about 6'1", so moving the seat post forward is a good idea. The rear triangle isn't too great either. Not surprisingly, my welding skills have improved on a nice curve and I think I can do better now than when I did this rear end. I'll chop it just ahead of the seat tube. I'll rebuild it with genuine bicycle tubes from Nova Cycle for the rear. I'll have a conventional seat post and better fit.
I also want to lower the rear so the bottom tube of the frame is parallel with the ground and the fork angle is more slack. I could do that with Chain Stay geometry or re-lace into a 24" rim. Still deciding. I need tabs and such to mount the battery and controller properly. A chain and derailleur. A constant project it seems. And I started building a recumbent, but that will be a different thread someday.
That's the hard part of the budget. Motors are reasonable. My Mac is an older generation, though, the most I could go anyway is 48v. That would get me about 5 more mph for a top of 30 or so. The original purpose for all that space was to have room for the Mac to become a mid-drive just ahead of the seat post. There's still hope for that plan, as I'm not too happy with how the frame sits. See how the seat is all the way forward on it's rails? It's a little stretch for me even like that, and I'm about 6'1", so moving the seat post forward is a good idea. The rear triangle isn't too great either. Not surprisingly, my welding skills have improved on a nice curve and I think I can do better now than when I did this rear end. I'll chop it just ahead of the seat tube. I'll rebuild it with genuine bicycle tubes from Nova Cycle for the rear. I'll have a conventional seat post and better fit.
I also want to lower the rear so the bottom tube of the frame is parallel with the ground and the fork angle is more slack. I could do that with Chain Stay geometry or re-lace into a 24" rim. Still deciding. I need tabs and such to mount the battery and controller properly. A chain and derailleur. A constant project it seems.
And I started building a recumbent, but that will be a different thread someday.
agniusm
1 MW
I am sorry to see that suspension go. it was looking a lot better for me with suspension fork. We kinda are on the same road at the moment. i am making a frame too which is a bit more sporty. Not fitting any pedals. Have recently got myself TIG. And as you mentioned i had same situation. Can do MIG no problems, done some TIG tacking and few beads, now i need to learn proper welding and most important aluminium:
Sorry for the hijack
Sorry for the hijack
SkyknightJohn
100 W
No worries. Custom Frame builders Unite!agniusm said:
TIG certainly has a learning curve, but after using up only 2 bottles of sheidling gas, I feel quite a bit more confident. Some of my thin-wall welds are even pretty!
I'm not done with suspension, just on this frame. I think I tried to get too complicated too fast with my first frame. I found some good Raleigh suspension bolts/pivots and have a good design in mind. I'll probably keep it simpler than the 4-link design. Just need to finish this cruiser and the recumbent I started first.agniusm said:
You are learning. That is the important thing. I would like to do a total custom frame for the cromotor mamoth. Do you still have that tap that chases the bb thread after welding? One of these years I might need it. Then again it might cut a bb from another donor bike and do the welding away from it. Can that be done? I know you had hell with the bb after welding.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Yes, I still have the taps. Since I bought the Paragon heat-sink/purge fitting, out of round has not been a problem. A bit pricey, but worth it. Getting out-of-round is the real problem. Also, I'm learning to put less heat into the welds, and take it in steps rather than long beads. The taps have gone through with little resistance and they 'clean up' the threads very well. the worst one was the one I had MIG welded.
Cutting away from the BB is certainly possible. The general technique is to cut the tube, use a short internal tube piece, slip the second tube over the internal one to butt up against the first, then weld.
Grab some Atomic Zombie plans. I found them very educational, even if I don't exactly build to plan. They also make it seem less daunting than reading up on the professional frame builders. If it doesn't have to be super-light and super-perfect, I can do it!
Cutting away from the BB is certainly possible. The general technique is to cut the tube, use a short internal tube piece, slip the second tube over the internal one to butt up against the first, then weld.
Grab some Atomic Zombie plans. I found them very educational, even if I don't exactly build to plan. They also make it seem less daunting than reading up on the professional frame builders.
If it doesn't have to be super-light and super-perfect, I can do it!
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Here´s some pics from my latest rear triangle build up. The dropouts are from Nova Cycle Supply, 1/4" Chromoly laser cut track style, x 2 for a 1/2" total per side. I welded them together. The Chainstays are also from Nova, double butted and tapered. You can also see the heat-sink in the bottom bracket, though, with it in there's not much to see. Obviously a seat tube and seatstays to add, but step by step...
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Some more work.
Heres the bottom bracket heat sink/purge fitting.
Bottom bracket threads after welding, then after running the taps through.
They make it so the bearing cups screw in nicely by hand.
The bare frame.
Heres the bottom bracket heat sink/purge fitting.
Bottom bracket threads after welding, then after running the taps through.
They make it so the bearing cups screw in nicely by hand.
The bare frame.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Continuing...
Brake caliper aligned nicely
Rolling...
A little sag in the front chain. I'll likely grab a tensioner or idler pully for it.
The front brake works, the rear still needs its cable run. Oh, and I have a 25.4 and a 27.2 seatpost. Apparently, I need a 26.8 or something... so many "standards."
That's all that's stopping it from being pedal-able. The chiainlines seem to work.
To do: gusset the chainstays and make provision for a kickstand; battery box; aforementioned seatpost and chain tensioner/idler; controller mounts, etc...
It feels like it's coming together this time. I can imagine a heavy duty rear rack with ammo box saddle bags...
Brake caliper aligned nicely
Rolling...
A little sag in the front chain. I'll likely grab a tensioner or idler pully for it.
The front brake works, the rear still needs its cable run. Oh, and I have a 25.4 and a 27.2 seatpost. Apparently, I need a 26.8 or something... so many "standards."
That's all that's stopping it from being pedal-able. The chiainlines seem to work.
To do: gusset the chainstays and make provision for a kickstand; battery box; aforementioned seatpost and chain tensioner/idler; controller mounts, etc...
It feels like it's coming together this time. I can imagine a heavy duty rear rack with ammo box saddle bags...
SkyknightJohn
100 W
spinningmagnets said:
Of course. And I have some sitting right here. Why does a brain work so poorly after a long day? I guess I was puzzled because I was confident I had bought a seat tube for a 27.2 post. Well...
This is a twin to the one on the bike. (Notice how the 27.2 seat post fits right in!) Nova paints the end of their tubes with the shortest butt, and suggest making the min cut on this end. I welded that end to the BB thinking I'd trim the top a bit. Well, the tube is tapered. :lol: I welded the seat tube upside down. A shim will work wonders with the 25.4 post I have.
edit: fixed inoperative pic.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
It Lives!
I finally had the time, so I picked up a 28.6 seat post and collar that fit perfect. I ran a cable to the rear brake too... it works much better now!
You may also notice a pletscher kickstand. It's pretty slick in that both legs fold up onto the non-chain side. I'll need to trim it down a bit, but even long it felt strudy. The rear tire is in the air, which I think is opposite from how they're supposed to work, but I think due to the weight of the battery and the length of the frame there is some added stability. It makes it nice for working with the chain, testing the motor and brake, etc... I pulled the middle sprockets for now and made one long chain. The deraileur is stop-set so I'm in the next to smallest cog, acting for now as only a tensioner. I threw together a canvas bag to velcro over the top tube and hold everything electric. It's sloppy, but I had to give it a test run while the sun was shining. I rode a two mile or so loop twice. For some reason the speedo wasn't picking up, so I have no real stats, but the ride was comfortable and stable. Pedaling is a very pedal-forward position, but as you can imagine, this is not exactly built to be an exercise machine. This Mac tops out at 25mph on 36v, and the bike certainly feels like it can handle more.
To do: Permanent and rigid battery housing, decide between one chain or two, switch out the rear knobby tire for the other big apple, think about any other weld-ons I want to do before paint, then paint! Just in time for the warmer weather, too. 8)
SkyknightJohn
100 W
Another nice day, another nice test ride. Just under 5 miles, in town and around campus, so a lot of short blocks and starts and stops. Ran 32 Wh/mi, pedalling little. The good news, nothing broke! :lol:
SkyknightJohn
100 W
A good workday. Built up a battery box. Framed with 1/8" angle and flat, the plate is 3/16" with 1/4" perforated holes. One side hinged, but I still need to add a latch or lock. I'll line the inside with foam to waterproof everything. Measures 4" wide x 12" long x 10" high, with the top a little longer toward the front. The pack pictured inside is a cell man 12s5p a123 pack with a layer of exercise mat foam rubber and a layer of pvc flashing, plus a generous amount of duct tape, for size reference.
AussieJester
1 TW
Great to watch the progression of this custom build you know, when I joined ES years ago there were very few full custom builds, was Wally world bikes with duct taped batteries, pleasing to come to the board and see so many ground up build,, it's really not that difficult imho, if you have the time and patience to learn...kudos to you for having both and fabricating the frame you wanted...
KiM
KiM
SkyknightJohn
100 W
AussieJester said:
¡Gracias!It's a fun hobby for sure... especially when things start going right! I'm trying the "learn-by-mistake" method. Starting to get it. It's been almost a year on this project--I'm glad to be near time to paint and ride.
Here's a couple pics I forgot to post. Nothing special, just a kickstand plate welded on. My chainstays ended up a little wider than "normal" so the clamp bracket wasn't a great fit. This also allows me to really tighten down on the bolt without fear of crushing the stays. I cut the kickstand legs down by 3" leaving the rear wheel about 1" off the ground. It seems much more stable.
SkyknightJohn
100 W
I Love Watching Paint Dry! 8)
(*Bottle for color comparison only!)
(*Bottle for color comparison only!)
