Cutouts: Solved! Sine Wave Controller S12S

[docnjoj]

Well now it gets weird! I went back for a final test to try to get P4 to 0 and low and behold, the Advanced stuff will not come up! However, when I press the lower button, the wheel spins and the little man comes on! The wheel spins very slow and roughly, like the hall/phase may be out. The next step is to try it without the meter but connect the correct wires (1+2 and 3+5) and see if the meter is faulty. It does have an ignition wire (blue) so it may control the on/off for the controller! Stay tuned for more trips down the rabbit hole!
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Back up from the Rabbit Hole

It seems that if you fight with the meter, you can get it back into the P advanced setting. Then if you set P4 to 0, lo and behold it works, just like the instructions say. Now I have it running really smooth, um, but backwards so I have to go get John in CR's stuff and see which wires to switch. It is alive, and, even stranger, it is possible that the first one actually works. We will see tomorrow, cause I am old an it is dark out! To be continued.
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Well it goes but REALLY SLOW. It runs smooth and at low amps and in the right direction, but seems to be limited to walking speed, at least that is what it seems. When I press the down button, it initiates the 6km walk beside speed. When I hit the throttle it goes at the same speed. This is just on the stand, so no road test yet, but it looks too slow for me. Anyone know of a way to speed it up? With 12 fets it should go at least 25-30 km/hr and draw more than 1 amp. Road test report late todayr when it warms up a bit.
otherDoc

Oh yeah the 2 loops both seem to be related to cruise control. The blue/black one needs to be closed to eliminate cruise, and the grey/grey one need to be open to eliminate cruise. I eventually want cruise, but not during the testing phase.

 

[friendly1uk]

In 6k mode the throttle should take you to 6k I would think?
Euro spec allows a throttle but only to 6k. Finding the throttle does as the controller says just seems logical. Try another power selection
I lifted my back end and span it for the first time ever just yesterday. It looked like it was going very slow, but it pulls me to 26mph without help. Not at all impressive to look at though. Like 10mph or something

 

[docnjoj]

In 6k mode the throttle should take you to 6k I would think?
Euro spec allows a throttle but only to 6k. Finding the throttle does as the controller says just seems logical. Try another power selection

That would seem to be correct, except that the "6Kmode" requires a push and hold button. once you stop pushing and holding , the mode should go away. The little walking man symbol certainly does. The speed does not change when I go back to the throttle. I do have to road test as I am referring to noload speed on the stand.
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Got it! I wish I knew why? It now goes up to 24km/hr. Whoopie. We will try it on the bike path tomorrow and see but I may have to do "shunt soldering" to get more speed and/or torque. At least it is faster than 6km/hr.
otherDoc

 

[d8veh]

Mine was set P5 = 12. The display was showing 3 out of the four segments after a short (5 mile) journey. I just increased it to p5 =17. The display didn't change, so I think it might be something to do with LVC. The last time it cutout, there were still two segments showing. I'll see what happens this time.

What was final verdict on the cause of it not starting?

I bet that the grey wires reverse the direction of the motor. I don't have them on mine, so I can't test.

 

[999zip999]

Confused.

 

[friendly1uk]

In 6k mode the throttle should take you to 6k I would think?
Euro spec allows a throttle but only to 6k. Finding the throttle does as the controller says just seems logical. Try another power selection

That would seem to be correct, except that the "6Kmode" requires a push and hold button. once you stop pushing and holding , the mode should go away. The little walking man symbol certainly does. The speed does not change when I go back to the throttle. I do have to road test as I am referring to noload speed on the stand.
otherDoc

Interesting. I was lead to believe that power level 1 was walking mode. Throttles can be fitted to eu pedelec's but 6kmh limited. I thought we might be seeing the throttle used as the 'go 6kmh button' while level 1 is selected.

It is interesting that your getting 25kmh, the legal limit. Are you sure it is not limited?

 

[docnjoj]

Grey loop wires seem to also act as cruise control but could be brake. Black/blue loop is cruise for sure. I put it as P2=1 and it worked OK ( I think?). Road test later without cruise. I can work with a 25Km limit on bike paths and quiet streets, which is where we do most of our riding. I'm definitely not a "speed demon". I think the Pedelec would also be limited to 25km, but not 6. That is simply for walking along side the bike up hill with power on for ease in transport.
otherDoc

 

[Avitt]

Got my S12S rigged up to test with a front wheel MAC 10T in a stand. All looks and sounds good. Achieved 37 mph (based on wheel sensor, set to 700c) no load, with a cellman NCM 50V, 12.3Ah battery. The blue loop works as cruise control, but a cannot figure out what the gray wires do...They don't reverse the motor, and don't seem to be related to CC. I don't think they're for self-learning either, since they didn't make any difference earlier, when I was fiddling around with the halls...

 

[docnjoj]

Definitely not "self learning". I haven't done hall/phase for a few years and it took a bit of time. It think the grey loop is "electric brake", but it is pouring frozen rain, so I gotta wait till tomorrow. That speed sounds right for 50 volts, since mine seems to go 25Km/hr on 36 volts. Can't really tell yet but the but the P1 setting @ 28 could be right for my 9C magnets. The speed needs my speed sensor installed to really be accurate but I need to do a 20 mile road test to see if it the (S12S) makes it. I am carrying my old controller just in case bad things happen.
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Friendly1UK wrote
Interesting. I was lead to believe that power level 1 was walking mode. Throttles can be fitted to eu pedelec's but 6kmh limited. I thought we might be seeing the throttle used as the 'go 6kmh button' while level 1 is selected.

It is interesting that your getting 25kmh, the legal limit. Are you sure it is not limited?

I'm not really sure about P1=walking as I made a bunch of changes (not scientific!) and then it went faster. If you press "down button" in induces walking mode. I think this is as fast as it goes with 36 volts but we will see on road test. Throttle now works fine. but P1=0 it didn't work.
otherDoc
edit: Still gotta use my cheat sheet for the P stuff and it is at the other end of the house.

 

[docnjoj]

P5 seems to be battery meter. I set mine for 15 and it shows full battery for 36 volts. Maybe for 50 volts it should be 20 or so?
otherDoc
Man! We are building a manual and I didn't sign on for that!

 

[docnjoj]

Well back from the first 20 miles and there is good and not so good. The good is the cruise control that cuts off when you flick the throttle again. Nice to have but I need to install the brake switch to cut of the motor.

I didn't need the brakes too much cause this thing is SLOW. I'm not a speed demon, but it wont go above 11 mph with the throttle. There are some settings that may help which I will report on tomorrow after our ride. I forgot and unplugged the Wattsup so I lost the data but the recharge will be with a Thunder 1220 so we will be able to determine power usage. I'll bet much less than the Infineon with the soldered shunt!

Another not so good thing was 2 power cut offs for no reason that I could see. Pulling the plug and repowering did reset, and I believe using the buttons on the screen also reset. Don't know what stopped it.

Really smooth and quiet, but surged and is slow, almost like it was using Pedelec, but it wasn't.
More data tomorrow. Comments greatly appreciated.
otherDoc

 

[d8veh]

Hmmm! Another report of cut-outs. Mine is the first version without the blue and grey wires. I soldered about 10% of the shunt, connected everything and it worked perfectly. I didn't touch any settings. The speed is normal - about 21 mph with a code 11 BPM. Power is good. I use both the PAS and the throttle. The only thing I'm not sure about is when it cut-off after about 20 miles. My battery was not accessible, and I have no watt-meter or voltmeter on that bike, so I couldn't say for definite that my battery wasn't low. I'm going to fit a spare CA so that I can see next time.

 

[docnjoj]

I'm pretty sure the grey wires loop are a brake, maybe plug, maybe regen, and the blue,black are cruise control. I am going to fiddle with the speed limit on the meter since the "instructions" state it is adjustable. Maybe it actually is? The "cutouts" are a no-go as it is dangerous, even on the protected areas we run.
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

It looks like you can adjust the max speed with the middle number on the speedo setting. Got it up to 20 mph which is fine for today. We'll test later today and see if the cutouts stop.
otherDoc

 

[Avitt]

docnjoj, would you post your standard and advanced (P1-P5) settings?

I'm wondering why you're concerned with the max speed setting...Isn't that primarily for countries with max speed regulations? Why not just set the max speed setting to the maximum (72 mph on mine), and then regulate your speed with the throttle?

 

[docnjoj]

docnjoj, would you post your standard and advanced (P1-P5) settings?

I'm wondering why you're concerned with the max speed setting...Isn't that primarily for countries with max speed regulations? Why not just set the max speed setting to the maximum (72 mph on mine), and then regulate your speed with the throttle?

Yes that makes sense but I was just playing with the max speed.
P1=46 (23 pole pairs) 9C 2807
P2=1
P3=1
P4=0
P5=15
That is what I got but if the trike is still too slow will do the Max Speed thing.
Thanks
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

This could be heading for a "NOT RECOMMENDED". I had about 12 cutouts on our 20 mile closed course ride today! Up until the last one it could be reset by the middle button on the LCD. Just as I pulled into the house and up the ramp, it quit completely, and would not restart by the middle button. Nice of it to wait!
My guess is the LCD is screwed and the controller is OK. I do also need to test the throttle, but I would be surprised if it failed that way. If the LCD is bad, I should be able to ride with jumpers as they suggest on the controller. If it is the controller, well this was a fine experiment and I will not purchase anything from BMSBattery ever again. I made these orders as relatively inexpensive ($100) each as lead-in to a Headway battery. Oh well. More testing tomorrow.
otherDoc

 

[Avitt]

The fact that your cutouts are easily overcome with a button push does sort of implicate the LCD...it will be interesting to see what results you have when you eliminate the LCD with jumpers.

 

[docnjoj]

The fact that your cutouts are easily overcome with a button push does sort of implicate the LCD...it will be interesting to see what results you have when you eliminate the LCD with jumpers.

I'm still grasping at straws but I reset P5 to 0 and we will see if that makes a diff. I am taking a jumper tomorrow so I can bypass the LCD if it keeps cutting out. It would be too bad since there is a lot of information and usefulness in that little meter. I can see where it would be quite helpful when I install the PAS. Oh well!
otherDoc

 

[d8veh]

The speed limit is a basic setting. By default, it's 72km/h, but if it's been interfered with, it could be anything. I would have thought that's the first thing you'd check if you were going too slow.

Regarding the cut-outs: several people have reported cut-outs at half their battery capacity, which coincidentally is the LVC for 48v, so I'm still thinking that these controllers are somehow set for 48v.

 

[docnjoj]

Thanks d8veh. I figured the speed limit out OK but the cutouts remain a problem. I will do the "short test" of wires 1-2, and 3-5 and see if that eliminates it. The bike now goes faster than I want to, so the electric brake feature is not bad. Can be controlled by the throttle with a bit of care. I think the grey wire loop plugged eliminates it.
otherDoc